PDA

View Full Version : Anyone believe Pujols is juicing?



44Magnum
05-10-2006, 04:43 PM
Just wondering.

BuckWoody
05-10-2006, 04:57 PM
Absolutely! Just take a look at pictures of him 10 years ago compared with what he looks like today...it's night and day. :)

Seriously though......no.

KronoRed
05-10-2006, 04:58 PM
No, I think he's 5 years older then he says though :D

CTA513
05-10-2006, 05:00 PM
Nope, hes just a darn good hitter.
He can hit mistake pitches out and he can also hit good pitches out.
He walks alot and doesnt strike out much at all.

Caveat Emperor
05-10-2006, 05:01 PM
Just wondering.

Man, I thought I was the only one. How can anyone take his records and accomplishments seriously since this was found in his locker:

http://www.jackbergsales.com/appliances/juicer.JPG

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:03 PM
He hasn't even been playing ten years. I say he looked pretty chiseled when he first arrived. He was drafted in 1999.


http://www.rookiesquantities.com/images/fi99_ap1_black_insert.jpg

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:06 PM
Man, I thought I was the only one. How can anyone take his records and accomplishments seriously since this was found in his locker:

http://www.jackbergsales.com/appliances/juicer.JPG

I'll bet he meets up with Jack Lalanne whenever he's on the West Coach

http://www.powerjuicer.com/images/index.jack.jpg

BuckWoody
05-10-2006, 05:07 PM
He hasn't even been playing ten years. I say he looked pretty chiseled when he first arrived. He was drafted in 1999.
That was just my poor attempt at humor, seeing as how he was only 16 years old 10 years ago. I wasn't serious at all...nor funny, evidently. :(

westofyou
05-10-2006, 05:07 PM
I'll bet he meets up with Jack Lalanne whenever he's on the West Coach

http://www.powerjuicer.com/images/index.jack.jpg
Jack LaLanne and a chair... early TV at its peak.

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:13 PM
Jack LaLanne and a chair... early TV at its peak.

You're dating yourself - and as old as Jack is these days, we might have to do carbon dating on him!

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:14 PM
That was just my poor attempt at humor, seeing as how he was only 16 years old 10 years ago. I wasn't serious at all...nor funny, evidently. :(

I wondered if you were trying to be ironic. Emoticons always work to clue in the thick headed like myself.

westofyou
05-10-2006, 05:18 PM
You're dating yourself - and as old as Jack is these days, we might have to do carbon dating on him!
Makes one long for Dialing for Dollars.

Reds1
05-10-2006, 05:21 PM
No, don't they test for that :)

BuckWoody
05-10-2006, 05:22 PM
I wondered if you were trying to be ironic. Emoticons always work to clue in the thick headed like myself.
I had a smiley next to it. I'll get better, though...promise. ;)

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:23 PM
By the way, Pujols was taken in the 13th round of the 99 draft - we took Ty Howington in the 1st round. How did everyone miss on this guy?

Fullboat
05-10-2006, 05:25 PM
Why are they still pitching to this guy???yesterday it was the Rockies who got burnt,when will teams learn.:thumbdown

TOBTTReds
05-10-2006, 05:25 PM
Check out those stats that year:

.466 avg, 198 ABs, 90 hits, 22 HR's, 76 RBI, .953 SLG....what was his OPS!!??? Wish they had walks on there too. I know it was only a CC, but those numbers aint bad.

Can't believe we and others past on him 12-13 times in the draft.

TOBTTReds
05-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Why are they still pitching to this guy???yesterday it was the Rockies who got burnt,when will teams learn.:thumbdown

Today too. 2-r HR, 2B

westofyou
05-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Can't believe we and others past on him 12-13 times in the draft.Not me.. and I got him in strat too.

pedro
05-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Yeah, he's juicing every fastball that sees the white of the plate.

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:28 PM
Yeah, he's juicing every fastball that sees the white of the plate.

And some that don't. I think I remember him walloping one that was at his shoes one time.

MattyHo4Life
05-10-2006, 05:33 PM
By the way, Pujols was taken in the 13th round of the 99 draft - we took Ty Howington in the 1st round. How did everyone miss on this guy?

I've wondered that too. I don't remember seeing him on any top prospect rankings once he was drafted, but he did only spend one year in the minors.

smith288
05-10-2006, 05:36 PM
Cmon, guys... We have to show patience with Howington. :thumbup: LOL

redsmetz
05-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Here's our draft in 1999 - are any of these guys still in our system? Only Broussard seems to have done anything and mostly not with us. All taken before Pujols.




1 14 Ty Howington P Vancouver High School (WA Hudson Bay) AA
2 65 Ben Broussard OF McNeese State University MLB 2002-2005
3 98 Brandon Love P Viola High School (AR) A- -
4 128 Kenneth Lutz P Collinsville High School (Caseyville,IL) Rookie
5 158 Mike Esposito Cimarron Memorial High School (Las Vegas,NV) MLB 2005-2005
6 188 Ronald Leflore CF Pinellas Park High School (Pinellas Park,FL) Rookie
7 218 Okorie Barrow CF Clarke Central High School (Athens,GA) Rookie
8 248 Ryan Lundquist OF University of Arkansas A+
9 278 Casey Bookout University of Oklahoma A-
10 308 Scott Dunn P University of Texas MLB 2004-2004
11 338 Paul Darnell P Tarleton State University AAA
12 368 Joshua Spoerl 3B University of Texas A+

remdog
05-10-2006, 08:49 PM
I liked Bookout. What was he, an offensive tackle on th U of O football team? Could smack the ball, just took him a day or two to get to first base. :)

Rem

BigRed
05-10-2006, 09:00 PM
It just goes to show how much that the draft is a crap shoot. It is difficult to project most of these kids. You can look at tools, but it is hard to predict heart, grit, and desire.

No way Pujols is juicing, he is just that good.

Casey_21
05-11-2006, 12:14 AM
Why is it that every man that hits good is labeled a roid? The man has been unstopable since his rookie year. Steroids may give you power, but not raw ass talent that Pujos carries. If a man can make good contact with an unhittable pitch, or even one out of the zone, that aint roids.. thats skills. Face it, dude's a natural in every aspect of the game.

NastyBoy
05-11-2006, 01:04 AM
By the way, Pujols was taken in the 13th round of the 99 draft - we took Ty Howington in the 1st round. How did everyone miss on this guy?

St. Louis did not miss him... sometimes you find a diamond in the rough.

We did get both Dunn and Kearns in 1998... which may be a draft that hard to beat.

TOBTTReds
05-11-2006, 01:20 AM
Why is it that every man that hits good is labeled a roid? The man has been unstopable since his rookie year. Steroids may give you power, but not raw ass talent that Pujos carries. If a man can make good contact with an unhittable pitch, or even one out of the zone, that aint roids.. thats skills. Face it, dude's a natural in every aspect of the game.

Actually he isn't labeled that. It was asked bc he is hitting like Ted Williams and Mark McGwire combined. Pretty sure everyone here says no anyway. Relax.

toledodan
05-11-2006, 01:36 AM
no, just a unbelievable talent. if he was playing in the american league he would be my favorite player.

NastyBoy
05-11-2006, 01:41 AM
Actually he isn't labeled that. It was asked bc he is hitting like Ted Williams and Mark McGwire combined. Pretty sure everyone here says no anyway. Relax.

There are few players you can compare him to is Ted Williams and Jimmy Foxx come to mind, but I doubt he will ever hit .400 in a season, but he could win the triple crown.

redsmetz
05-11-2006, 06:38 AM
We did get both Dunn and Kearns in 1998... which may be a draft that hard to beat.

I noticed yesterday that we also got John Koronka in that draft, who we traded for Phil Norton. Koronka, a lefthander, is now 4-1 with the Rangers (having been traded this spring by the Cubs). Was the Norton/Koronka trade another Dano trade?

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_425655.jpg

savafan
05-11-2006, 10:49 AM
I don't think "The Punisher" (my nickname for Pujols, because he punishes pitchers) is juicing, but ever since I saw the UFO, I can't help but wonder if he isn't getting some easy pitches to hit to try and take the focus, and perhaps the single season homerun record, off of Barry Bonds.

remdog
05-11-2006, 11:27 AM
I don't think ".... I can't help but wonder if he isn't getting some easy pitches to hit to try and take the focus, and perhaps the single season homerun record, off of Barry Bonds.

'....And wouldn't that be loverly....' :)

Rem

MattyHo4Life
05-11-2006, 11:27 AM
What makes Pujols so good is his work ethic. No matter how good he is, he works hard to make himself better. He takes extra batting practive, he studies tons of video of his at bats, and the oppopsing pitchers. Everytime a team figures how to pitch him, he adjusts how he hits. During a game you will see him go down the clubhouse after his at bat and study videos.

traderumor
05-11-2006, 11:34 AM
What makes Pujols so good is his work ethic. No matter how good he is, he works hard to make himself better. He takes extra batting practive, he studies tons of video of his at bats, and the oppopsing pitchers. Everytime a team figures how to pitch him, he adjusts how he hits. During a game you will see him go down the clubhouse after his at bat and study videos.That may help some, but many guys study a lot of video and do not rake. The same with pitchers. Schilling is given attention for studying film, which is all well and good, but its still talent that has allowed him so much success in this game. That might give him a little bit of edge, but he just simply is a great natural hitter.

registerthis
05-11-2006, 12:02 PM
No, I think he's 5 years older then he says though :D

Yep. He's what you call an "old" 26.

MattyHo4Life
05-11-2006, 02:46 PM
That may help some, but many guys study a lot of video and do not rake. The same with pitchers. Schilling is given attention for studying film, which is all well and good, but its still talent that has allowed him so much success in this game. That might give him a little bit of edge, but he just simply is a great natural hitter.

I wasn't saying that Pujols isn't talented. If I made it seem that way then I appologize. I think he is the most talented player alive. I just think that his work ethic is what makes him better each season.

realistic
05-11-2006, 02:54 PM
ahh, so which is worse? taking a questionable substance that was not banned at the time by your employers in order to make yourself a more productive employee, or.. blatantly lieing to your employers to a get bigger and better contract?

hmm.

How MLB could call McGwire / Sosa 'saviours' and now crucify Bonds just blows my mind. Its easy for America to love a big lumbering redheaded 'fella' and a charismatic teddy bear from from the DR. But a rich black kid from the west coast that bows to no one? HE MUST SUFFER , say the haters.

But about Pujols.. hes not naturally any better than Bonds was his 4th or 5th year in the league, people should go look at pre 'beefed up' stats compared to that eras stats for other players . He was in the top 10 in EVERY offensive catergory in 93 and the surrounding years.

Handofdeath
05-11-2006, 03:02 PM
You're dating yourself - and as old as Jack is these days, we might have to do carbon dating on him!

Jack Lalanne is the toughest SOB alive. Jack Bauer fears Jack Lalanne.

Newman4
05-11-2006, 03:31 PM
Ah, I say he's on steriods. Only because I hate the Cardinals though.

Matt700wlw
05-11-2006, 03:36 PM
I think Pujols is clean....which makes him even more unbelievable

Joseph
05-11-2006, 03:37 PM
ahh, so which is worse? taking a questionable substance that was not banned at the time by your employers in order to make yourself a more productive employee, or.. blatantly lieing to your employers to a get bigger and better contract?

hmm.

How MLB could call McGwire / Sosa 'saviours' and now crucify Bonds just blows my mind. Its easy for America to love a big lumbering redheaded 'fella' and a charismatic teddy bear from from the DR. But a rich black kid from the west coast that bows to no one? HE MUST SUFFER , say the haters.

But about Pujols.. hes not naturally any better than Bonds was his 4th or 5th year in the league, people should go look at pre 'beefed up' stats compared to that eras stats for other players . He was in the top 10 in EVERY offensive catergory in 93 and the surrounding years.


The Bonds dislike has nothing to do with race. I'm sorry you seem to think it even plays a small part in it. I know there is still racism in America today [and yes thats terrible] but the majority of baseball fans could care less if Bonds was green or cyan or aqua blue, all most of us believe is that the man is a complete jerk who probably/allegedly cheated the game we all love.

Joseph
05-11-2006, 03:38 PM
And I do also have my doubts that Pujols is only 26, he's just to good to be that young, I don't think he's on 'roids though.

Cyclone792
05-11-2006, 03:54 PM
No, I think he's 5 years older then he says though


Yep. He's what you call an "old" 26.


And I do also have my doubts that Pujols is only 26, he's just to good to be that young, I don't think he's on 'roids though.

Nah, questioning Pujols' age is highly exaggerated and pretty much blown out of proportion. The overall peak age for hitters is about 26 to 27, which means that what Pujols is doing right now at the age of 26 years, 4 months falls right in line with him performing at the expected peak level.

For the overall level, pay attention to the $LW column:

http://www.tangotiger.net/agepatterns.txt


Here are the 1979-1999 age factors
Age PA1,,,, $BB, $K,, $HR, $H,, $XBH $T,, $SB, $LW,,
21 14,627, 0.62 1.24 0.69 1.00 0.87 1.44 0.83 0.900
22 41,705, 0.74 1.20 0.74 0.96 0.92 1.11 0.95 0.914
23 81,533, 0.74 1.12 0.82 0.95 0.94 0.95 0.92 0.939
24 139,061 0.79 1.04 0.89 0.94 0.95 0.91 1.00 0.967
25 188,156 0.82 1.01 0.89 0.93 0.99 0.83 0.93 0.976
26 226,485 0.84 1.01 0.96 0.93 1.00 0.75 0.90 0.996
27 231,667 0.88 1.00 1.00 0.92 0.99 0.69 0.87 0.999
28 219,253 0.90 1.00 0.97 0.89 1.00 0.60 0.82 0.978
29 201,555 0.92 1.02 0.97 0.88 0.99 0.54 0.79 0.970
30 185,070 0.94 1.02 0.93 0.86 0.97 0.54 0.71 0.949
31 156,383 0.96 1.04 0.95 0.85 0.96 0.50 0.64 0.940
32 130,953 0.96 1.04 0.90 0.84 0.95 0.44 0.62 0.922
33 112,054 0.97 1.06 0.86 0.82 0.91 0.41 0.57 0.896
34 85,403, 0.97 1.09 0.85 0.80 0.89 0.38 0.50 0.873
35 64,545, 0.96 1.13 0.82 0.77 0.89 0.32 0.44 0.840
36 45,277, 0.97 1.14 0.80 0.76 0.90 0.35 0.42 0.828
37 30,083, 1.00 1.13 0.72 0.75 0.89 0.34 0.35 0.808
38 20,304, 0.93 1.16 0.63 0.73 0.86 0.20 0.35 0.754
39 13,183, 0.89 1.26 0.52 0.72 0.79 0.26 0.30 0.707

Johnny Footstool
05-11-2006, 04:03 PM
Yep. He's what you call an "old" 26.

He went to prep school in KC, and from what people have told me, he could have legally bought beer for the graduation party. Some kids thought he was a new teacher when he first got there. Or a narc.

TOBTTReds
05-11-2006, 04:11 PM
He went to prep school in KC, and from what people have told me, he could have legally bought beer for the graduation party. Some kids thought he was a new teacher when he first got there. Or a narc.

A lot of kids do that. Look at college basketball players these days. David West went to 5 years of HS (one of which was prep to get bigger), Norman Plummer of UD was 20 when he left HS.

Either way, if Pujols is 30, then LeBron James is 35. There are freaks of nature. Anyway, even if Pujols was any age, he is still amazing.

OnBaseMachine
05-11-2006, 04:35 PM
And I do also have my doubts that Pujols is only 26, he's just to good to be that young, I don't think he's on 'roids though.

Agreed.

Check out his picture on that baseball card that someone posted on the first page. It's just amazing how physically mature he was for a "18 or 19" year old. I'd say he is probably 28 or 29 or so. But that doesn't really mean a thing right now, he's still an unbelievable player.

Stewie
05-11-2006, 04:48 PM
Nah, questioning Pujols' age is highly exaggerated and pretty much blown out of proportion. The overall peak age for hitters is about 26 to 27, which means that what Pujols is doing right now at the age of 26 years, 4 months falls right in line with him performing at the expected peak level.




What?!? Dusty Baker says that a player reaches his peak somewhere between ages 32-36 and beyond. Dusty can't be wrong, can he?!?!?!?


I agree about Pujols, though, I just think he is an incredible talent that has nothing to do with juicing or lying about his age. Some guys just physically mature earlier than others. Unfortunately, given the era we are in, these questions will always come up when a player is as dominant as Pujols.

MattyHo4Life
05-11-2006, 05:26 PM
If Pujols was in his 30s, then he shouldn't be getting better, but he should be starting his decline right about now. Pujols had no reason to lie about his age when he first moved to KC.

TeamBoone
05-11-2006, 06:05 PM
No, I don't think he is.

There's way too much risk in doing something so foolish. I don't think Albert Pujols is a foolish guy.

Johnny Footstool
05-11-2006, 06:42 PM
Pujols had no reason to lie about his age when he first moved to KC.

If he lied about his age, he would be more physically and mentally than most of his younger opposition, so he'd be able to dominate his sport, get drafted, and earn money. Just like that 14 year old kid who lied about his age and played in the 12-and-under Little League World Series a couple of years ago.

I'm not saying that's what he did, because I don't know for sure. All I've got is some anecdotes, stories, and hearsay.

Outshined_One
05-11-2006, 07:50 PM
I noticed yesterday that we also got John Koronka in that draft, who we traded for Phil Norton. Koronka, a lefthander, is now 4-1 with the Rangers (having been traded this spring by the Cubs). Was the Norton/Koronka trade another Dano trade?

http://mlb.mlb.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_425655.jpg

Nah, Koronka is the kind of pitcher that's a dime a dozen around baseball: a lefty without very good stuff. I'm not quite sure how he's doing so well down in Texas, considering he wasn't all that good with the Cubs.

Then again, the Cubs, in their quest to field the first ever all-second baseman team, decided to trade him for Freddy Bynum.

Go figure.

Red Taylor
05-11-2006, 08:15 PM
No. He's just a great player. The best player in baseball now.

MattyHo4Life
05-11-2006, 08:51 PM
If he lied about his age, he would be more physically and mentally than most of his younger opposition, so he'd be able to dominate his sport, get drafted, and earn money. Just like that 14 year old kid who lied about his age and played in the 12-and-under Little League World Series a couple of years ago.

I'm not saying that's what he did, because I don't know for sure. All I've got is some anecdotes, stories, and hearsay.

I don't think Pujols came into the country to play baseball. Ever since the story about that 12 year old broke,everybody has been suspicious about the age issue. I don't think it would be rumors or hearsay if it was true about Pujols though. Pujols has been one of the best baseball players for the last several years. Imagine how big of a story it would be if it was revealed that he lied about his age. This would be one of the biggest sports stories of the year, and it wouldn't be very difficult for a good reporter to prove that he is lying about his age. They could go to his hometown, and talk to friends and relatives. I would imagine that we would all know for sure by now if it was true.

realistic
05-12-2006, 12:40 AM
If Pujols was in his 30s, then he shouldn't be getting better, but he should be starting his decline right about now. Pujols had no reason to lie about his age when he first moved to KC.

Bonds got better in his mid 30's...just an ironic footnote to the op's question.

Honestly i doubt hes juicing, but i doubt his age even more.

MattyHo4Life
05-12-2006, 12:49 AM
Bonds got better in his mid 30's...just an ironic footnote to the op's question.

Honestly i doubt hes juicing, but i doubt his age even more.

Bonds had "help" in his mid 30's. Players don't normally get better in their mid 30's.

savafan
05-12-2006, 12:56 AM
A better question:

Does anyone believe Bonds is now clean?

KronoRed
05-12-2006, 01:04 AM
A better question:

Does anyone believe Bonds is now clean?
Giants fans ;)

realistic
05-12-2006, 01:07 AM
A better question:

Does anyone believe Bonds is now clean?


interesting question, id say so, surely he knows by now.

Actually steroids dont harm other people, just the user, and i refuse to judge someone for using technology to try to be a better employee. Moral? Probably not. But why not the same disdain for a drunk driver like Ryan Freel who actually endagered the lives of innocent people in Cincinnati? People can surely relate to that problem a lot easier and accept it even if it harms OTHER people. Bonds did what was casually accepted by his peers and actually encouraged by his supervisors.

As you can tell this is a sensitive subject for me, after 2 years or so of lurking i created a poster name back during March when the book was coming out. On a day when Junior had hit 2 HR's in the WBC, everyone on here was talking about steroids. Its much much easier for people to find something or someone to hate than it is to admire. Sad state of society. Its not realistic

savafan
05-12-2006, 01:17 AM
interesting question, id say so, surely he knows by now.



You would think that he wouldn't get anywhere near steroids now, but I question this because I have no reason not to. First off, according to Game of Shadows Bonds was using HGH and injecting insulin, both of which aren't tested for in baseball's drug testing policy. Second, a week ago he could barely run and he had bone chips in his elbow and all of a sudden he's now starting to crush the ball and moving better in the field. He could just be getting into a zone, and perhaps he is a rapidly healing person, but my eyes and logic tell me perhaps something more is going on here.

Cardinal70
05-12-2006, 06:16 PM
BTW, if Pujols was older than he said he was, wouldn't he have dominated the opposition so much that he'd been drafted higher than the 13th round? I know he put up some good numbers, but there must have been some reason the scouts passed on him. If he was a 24-25 year old playing with 20 year olds, I think he goes higher.

savafan
05-12-2006, 07:27 PM
Also, don't forget that with the new visa rules following 9/11, it is now more difficult to lie about your age to get documentation into or out of the country, and many ballplayers have been caught by this. If Pujols was older than he says, you have to believe that we'd now know.