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View Full Version : Official "Coffey for Closer" Thread



GriffeyFan
05-12-2006, 12:41 AM
Sign on the ....... line if you're in favor.

Seriously, how many more saves does Weathers have to blow before we put a guy in that role that has a 95+ heater and an ERA under 1.00?

fisch11
05-12-2006, 12:48 AM
I stood for Weathers until tonight. He isn't lights out, but seemed to get the job done. And honestly, I think you're best pitcher has to be the guy that comes on in the 7th or 8th with runners on to slam the door shut. That's when you need lights out. But after tonight, Weathers struggles 2 nights straight and got some defensive help in Arizona that made it close. Now I'm persuaded that Weathers has good enough stuff to set up Coffey, but only if Weathers would pitch a clean 7th or 8th. With runners on and Coffey closing, I'd like to see Shack come in play Coffey's role.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-12-2006, 12:54 AM
"We're adding a little something to this month's sales contest. As you all know, first prize is a Cadillac Eldorado. Anybody want to see second prize? Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're fired."

Henry Clay
05-12-2006, 12:54 AM
I have nothing bad to say about Weathers. He had a few bad breaks a couple of nights in a row, but he's a solid set up man and veteran reliever. Although he has done a decent job as closer based on his numbers, he is miscast as closer on this team. Coffey is a much better candidate for the full time job now and into the future. Management needs to go ahead and commit to him and just name him closer. I wish they had done so at the beginning of the year in manner Boston did for Papelbon. I think the results would have been similar because I believe Coffey has arguably better stuff than Papelbon. Plus, it would have avoided the awkwardness that is going to result when Narron switches their respective roles in the bullpen. That day is coming soon, right? It even seemed obvious to the DC broadcasters tonight.

savafan
05-12-2006, 01:06 AM
Weathers career WHIP going into this year is 1.518. Clearly you expect better out of the guy you call upon to close out a ballgame.

TeamBoone
05-12-2006, 01:13 AM
Bring Coffey in with a one-run lead... if he pitched the 8th, let him pitch the 9th too.

Let Weather come in if the lead is two/three runs... unless the heart of the order is coming up.

Caveat Emperor
05-12-2006, 01:17 AM
Coffey is clearly the best pitcher in the Reds pen right now. The problem is, he's the ONLY reliable pitcher in the Reds pen these days. There really isn't a wrong time to pitch him, because he's the best option at every point the bullpen needs to protect a lead.

He should be the closer on this ballclub, but they need to get at least 2 more reliable arms out there. Mercker has been awful, White has been awful, Weathers is suddenly shakey, and Belisle is stuck waiting for games that Ramirez and Williams pitch as the "bail out" option.

Is it time to get Calvin Medlock or David Shafer up to the big league club? Certainly neither one can be worse than White or Mercker.

TeamBoone
05-12-2006, 01:27 AM
Why can't Shack be the set-up guy?

CTA513
05-12-2006, 01:35 AM
Why can't Shack be the set-up guy?

Narron likes his lefty vs. lefty match ups.

OldRightHander
05-12-2006, 01:39 AM
Narron likes his lefty vs. lefty match ups.

Just ask Frank how well the lefty vs. lefty match up worked tonight.

:laugh:

savafan
05-12-2006, 01:42 AM
Just ask Frank how well the lefty vs. lefty match up worked tonight.

:laugh:

Junior owns lefthanded pitchers though. Remember, he had a lefthanded father pitching to him when he grew up.

Nugget
05-12-2006, 01:44 AM
Junior owns pitchers.

penantboundreds
05-12-2006, 02:10 AM
ask narron how the lefty vs lefty matchup worked last night.....see mercker

MrCinatit
05-12-2006, 08:09 AM
Moving Coffey to closer is just one of the moves they should be making in the Pen.
Get rid of White. Get rid of Hammond.
Let Weathers become just another guy in the pen. He is a pretty good reliever - but I really don't think he is closer material.

BoCcc2832
05-12-2006, 08:40 AM
Todd Coffey is the closer of the future, that is no doubt. However, I stand by Weather's from last night's game, because it really wasn't his fault. It was David Ross's fault. If you watched the game, or were there, you know what I mean. With Ryan Zimmerman at the plate and Damian Jackson pinch running, Weathers threw a ball that should have been caught that allowed Jackson to steal second. Error number one. Then, with Jackson on third, Matthew LeCroy hit a fly ball to right field. Kearns caught it, threw home and Jackson was easily out...if Ross would have caught the ball. But no, he fumbled it and the game was tied. So all in all, it wasn't Weather's fault this time. But I agree, Todd Coffey for closer...in July.

GoReds
05-12-2006, 09:00 AM
Milton could be that lefty in the pen and possible setup man. His knee would likely to hold out longer with shorter stints and he can really pump up his FB here.

Stick Belisle back in the rotation and get Williams down to Louisville.

RedFanAlways1966
05-12-2006, 09:06 AM
However, I stand by Weather's from last night's game, because it really wasn't his fault. It was David Ross's fault.

So all in all, it wasn't Weather's fault this time.

I respectfully disagree. Yes, Ross should have caught the ball. Yes, Ross should have tagged Jackson out. But you notice that Ross did not get an error on that play. That is not a simple play. Not hard either, but not simple to reach across your body when a guy is coming full-bore at you down the third base line.

You have to place a lot of blame on the pitcher (the closer!) who allowed a single to start the inning. Then the guy steals 2nd (on a strange play by Ross again... not catching the pitch, but Jackson had a good jump off of Weathers anyhow). Then he gives up a flyball to allow the runner to get to third with 1-out. Then he gives up another flyball (not a strikeout, not a popup in the infield, not a grounder right to the drawn-in infield) that gives WASH a chance to tie it. Weathers deserved a blown save for his efforts. A good effort from Weathers does not even allow Ross to be put in that situation.

Kc61
05-12-2006, 09:07 AM
Little by little Coffey should become the closer. Reds need a solid closer and Coffey seems best qualified, but we don't know how he will react to that spot. So I would work him in gradually, with occasional save opportunities.

Weathers has been a terrific find as closer. He did very well last year and this year has been pretty good. He doesn't have the stuff, but definitely has the makeup. The fact that he blows a save once in awhile, well even the best closers do that sometimes. But for the future he should be gradually phased out of that role.

More important than the roles, however, Reds must add a solid reliever. Coffey and Weathers need more help in the late innings, they can't pitch every day. Too much filler in the bullpen, need more late inning quality guys. Trade a catcher and a minor leaguer for a good reliever.

dabvu2498
05-12-2006, 09:10 AM
I must agree that the Reds need at least one more arm out of the pen.

I also don't necessarily mind the idea of using a "two headed monster", i.e. using Weathers and Coffey both in the 9th at some points. The problems seem to come when they go out there in back-to-back days.

Roy Tucker
05-12-2006, 09:29 AM
For the game last night, Narron did talk on the pre-game that he wanted to give Coffey a rest because he felt like he's been overusing him lately.

Like others have said, Weathers is a good piece of the bullpen puzzle. He can function as a closer but will be just average.

IIRC, his last 2 saves have been Graves-ish (a lucky line drive DP to close out the Arizona game and a line drive 3rd out with guys on base on Weds. night) and I thought he's been overused as well and getting worn out.

Coffey is definitely emerging as a bullpen star. But I think Narron ought to ease him into the closer role slowly. Let the guy have success at the role he is playing now and let him get comfortable at it. And then slowly reverse his role with Weathers. Weathers is a pro and I think he'd understand and be OK with it.

HalMorrisRules
05-12-2006, 10:15 AM
The first person who would admit that David Weathers is not a closer is most likely DW himself. I have never gotten the sense that he is a big ego type of guy and he has enjoyed the opportunity to close games especially so late in his career. But the time to make the move is now. The Reds had no business winning that game last night and the next time a save is blown they might not be so lucky. Let Coffey close them out and let Weathers be the 7th and 8th inning setup guy. Ok, I got that off of my chest.

dabvu2498
05-12-2006, 10:47 AM
Good call. Has Weathers ever been a closer before hist stint with the Reds???

I just hope Coffey has the mental "makeup" for the job.


The first person who would admit that David Weathers is not a closer is most likely DW himself. I have never gotten the sense that he is a big ego type of guy and he has enjoyed the opportunity to close games especially so late in his career. But the time to make the move is now. The Reds had no business winning that game last night and the next time a save is blown they might not be so lucky. Let Coffey close them out and let Weathers be the 7th and 8th inning setup guy. Ok, I got that off of my chest.

44Magnum
05-12-2006, 12:56 PM
I vote for Coffey to be closer.

dsmith421
05-12-2006, 01:47 PM
Bring Coffey in with a one-run lead... if he pitched the 8th, let him pitch the 9th too.

Let Weather come in if the lead is two/three runs... unless the heart of the order is coming up.

Exactly. The "closer" role is outdated and a waste of time when you have a gas can bullpen like the Reds do. When Coffey is available to pitch, he should be brought into the highest-leverage situation possible, whether that be in the 7th or 8th, or, as last night, the ninth.

When the Reds enter the ninth inning with a 2- or 3-run lead, then you can send Mercker, Weathers, or Belisle out without worrying too much (I'll exclude White and Hammond for obvious reasons), but I hate seeing a bad pitcher brought in in the seventh (or the ninth) because of blind adherence to the "closer" role.

flyer85
05-12-2006, 01:51 PM
The problem is removing Tackleberry from the closer role is not going to stop him from pitching high leverage innings. He would just be doing it in the 8th instead of the 9th.

The Reds need a relief pitcher to go along with Coffey that can miss some bats.

BuckeyeRedleg
05-12-2006, 02:26 PM
How about we offer Texas something for Cordero?

....or Detroit for Rodney?

Patrick Bateman
05-12-2006, 02:37 PM
I'd still prefer to use Coffey in the most important situations with the game on the line. Maybe when the heart of the order is up 8th or 9th inning he needs to be in. Yesterday since Arroyo went 8, Coffey should have been in the 9th since he gave the Reds the best chance to win the game, but knowing he is our only well above average reliever I say use him in the big situations.

savafan
05-12-2006, 02:39 PM
What's Jeff Shaw doing these days? ;)