PDA

View Full Version : Olney's NYY replacement possibilities



edabbs44
05-12-2006, 09:16 AM
Right on the money regarding Kearns...

Abreu to replace Matsui?
posted: Friday, May 12, 2006 | Feedback

Hideki Matsui may not play until September and perhaps not again until 2007, and so within the Yankees' front office, there will be discussion and consideration today about possible replacements. This is not a small matter for New York: With Randy Johnson showing such a distinct lack of faith in his fastball and the middle relief in a muddle, the offense has to create the margin of error for these other flaws, and Matsui was a key component of the offense.
Bernie Williams will play some games as a replacement, but the Yankees never wanted him to be more than a role player this summer, a guy who might get a couple of starts a week. There was some discomfort with him even getting regular at-bats as a designated hitter, which is why the team initially signed Carlos Pena, in the hope that Pena would become the regular first baseman, Jason Giambi would become the regular designated hitter and Williams would play less. Williams will not be the permanent solution.

Melky Cabrera and Bubba Crosby will get some time to prove themselves as possible fill-ins, but there is an American Idol ruthlessness in the way the Yankees evaluate young players at the big-league level. Think of the club as Simon Cowell, and the young players as the hapless wannabes on stage for the first time: They've got to show extraordinary skill from the outset. On the Baseball Tonight set Thursday, I asked Tino Martinez -- who witnessed first-hand the impatience with young players in New York -- how long Cabrera had to prove himself. "About a day," Tino said, before chuckling only a little. Somewhere, Shane Spencer and Ricky Ledee and others aren't laughing at all; those guys always felt incredible pressure to produce.

So unless Cabrera dominates the next week of games, the Yankees will probably start looking at players who may be available for trade. There is an X-factor in their decision-making: Gary Sheffield is on the disabled list with a bad wrist, and club officials need to determine how much help he will be this year, with the looming distraction of his unsettled contract status. If they think Sheffield is devoted to coming back and helping the team, then that will decrease the sense of urgency to identify a big-time replacement for Matsui. On the other hand, if they believe Sheffield will become Shut-Down Sheff and has decided he isn't going to be invested in the 2006 Yankees because he doesn't have a contract for 2007, then they definitely need a proven bat.

The possible options:

1. Bobby Abreu, Phillies. General managers from other teams say Phillies GM Pat Gillick was extremely motivated in his effort to trade Abreu all winter -- mostly because of the $30 million still owed to Abreu for this year and for next year. There is a dramatic split among evaluators on how good of a player Abreu is: The New School Number Crunchers love Abreu for his incredible on-base percentage, prolonged at-bats, and his offensive production, while a lot of the Old School Scouts say he's worth much less than his numbers suggest, believing he doesn't play hard all the time and that his physical condition is regressing. An Old School scout asked of him recently, "Can't he just dive for a ball one time?"

Gillick acquired David Dellucci on the eve of the season, so he has options if he really wants to move Abreu, who is batting .264 with four homers and a .438 on-base percentage so far. If the Phillies are ready to deal the All-Star, the Yankees probably wouldn't have to give up much talent -- maybe a couple of Grade B prospects -- in order to get him, because of the size of his contract. The real value of the deal to Gillick may be the financial flexibility gained, as he considers ways of helping the team before the trade deadline.

Interestingly, a deciding vote on Abreu may come from someone who knows Abreu well, someone who is regarded with great respect within the Yankees' organization: Third base coach and former Philly manager Larry Bowa.

2 and 3. Shannon Stewart or Torii Hunter. Each would be a good fit for the Yankees -- Stewart because of his offensive prowess and Hunter because of his power and remarkable defense. The question is when or if the Twins will decide to blow up their season. They haven't looked good, but it's still very early in the season, and Minnesota GM Terry Ryan may not be ready to deal until sometime in July. The Yankees will want to move before then.

4. Aubrey Huff, Devil Rays. He can play multiple positions, he looked good in spring training, and he knows AL East pitching. But he's also hitting .156, he's not a good outfielder, and Tampa Bay has been aggressive in asking for good young pitching, something the Yankees won't part with for Huff, as they rebuild their farm system.

5. Alfonso Soriano, Nationals. They know him, they know he can play in and enjoy New York, and he's getting better in the outfield. The key questions would be: When would the Nationals be ready to trade, and do the Yankees have what Washington GM Jim Bowden would want in a deal?

6. Mike Cameron, Padres. Right now, The Padres would have no reason to want to make a trade, because they're contending in the NL West.

7. Austin Kearns, Reds. Sure, the Yankees could use him, but it's hard to see a fit for trade partners here. Cincinnati wants pitching, and the Yankees really don't have much pitching to offer.

Abreu makes a whole lot of sense if the Phillies are still motivated to move him.

smith288
05-12-2006, 09:26 AM
I like how the media just basically assumes the Yankees have the person of their choosing... I would love to see what the Yankees forums are saying. "We'll just go get the star of any team because we are the yanks!"

edabbs44
05-12-2006, 09:30 AM
I like how the media just basically assumes the Yankees have the person of their choosing... I would love to see what the Yankees forums are saying. "We'll just go get the star of any team because we are the yanks!"

I was just telling someone that every GM should be laughing at the Yankees, waiting for Cashman to call.

Cashman: We would like to talk to you about Austin Kearns.
Krivsky: Chris Denofria for Philip Hughes, take it or leave it.
Cashman: No way, I was asking about Aust....
Krivsky: Dial tone

This game should be played across the country until Cashman loses the rest of his hair or finally quits.

lollipopcurve
05-12-2006, 09:35 AM
Typical NYY/ESPNY perspective from Olney. A lot of talk about the various players the Yankees would now like, without a single mention of any player the Yankees might have to give up. Hey, these teams should be honored just to release their players so that they Yankees can choose among them, right?

RedsManRick
05-12-2006, 10:48 AM
Cashman: We would like to talk to you about Austin Kearns.
Krivsky: Chris Denofria for Philip Hughes, take it or leave it.
Cashman: No way, I was asking about Aust....
Krivsky: Dial tone


:beerme:

princeton
05-12-2006, 11:12 AM
Of course there's a match: they have Cash.

flyer85
05-12-2006, 11:15 AM
The problem the Yanks have is a serious lack of trading chips.

vaticanplum
05-12-2006, 11:21 AM
I'm keeping an eye on Chien-Ming Wang. If he proves himself a little more, I still think he might be a fit for the Reds. Though if he proves himself a little bit more, the Yanks will be very unlikely to give him up. Dang this "negotiation" thing.

GOREDSGO32
05-12-2006, 11:27 AM
We'll trade you Milton, Wilson, and LaRue for ARod ... final offer. Thats how ridiculous traind Kearns to the Yankees would be.

IslandRed
05-12-2006, 12:04 PM
I like how the media just basically assumes the Yankees have the person of their choosing

I dunno... for Olney, that wasn't a bad piece. He threw out names of the guys the Yankees might target but also (for most of them) gave a reason why it probably won't happen, be it "too early" or "the Yankees don't have what they want."

osuceltic
05-12-2006, 12:08 PM
I think Junior is a more realistic option. If he proves himself healthy, I could see the Yankees making a play for him. The Reds would be more motivated to move him rather than Kearns because of his salary. It's unlikely, but wouldn't totally shock me.

steig
05-12-2006, 12:17 PM
I don't care how good the pitching prospect is with the Yankees. I wouldn't trade any significant player on the Reds to the Yankees for prospects. I don't know of all the prospects that the Yankees have traded away but in recent memory I don't know of any that turned out to be superstars or #1 level pitchers. The Reds may have gotten the best deal with Claussen and the stories were all over the place about how the Reds got the best pitching prospect the Yankees had in their system. Claussen is good, but he is not a 1 and really should turn out to be a #3 guy. From my view the yankees have a history of getting rid of prospects that never pan out and I don't want to make a trade like that for a player of the caliber that Griffey and kearns are.

flyer85
05-12-2006, 12:21 PM
I really don't see the Reds trading Jr. He has little trade value because of the injury risk. At this point just trading him to do it doesn't make a lot of sense because he makes the Reds better when healthy enough to play.

OldXOhio
05-12-2006, 12:27 PM
I really don't see the Reds trading Jr. He has little trade value because of the injury risk. At this point just trading him to do it doesn't make a lot of sense because he makes the Reds better when healthy enough to play.

$ still is and always will be an issue when discussing Junior and the Reds. If you find someone like the Yankees to eat a large portion of that contract, you sign the deal before they can change their minds. Perhpas it doesn't help the team on the field this year, but if the present FO is as capable as they appear now, a Junior trade will positively serve this team in the future.

flyer85
05-12-2006, 12:39 PM
$ still is and always will be an issue when discussing Junior and the Reds. If you find someone like the Yankees to eat a large portion of that contract, you sign the deal before they can change their minds. That doesn't make the Reds better in the short term and only helps in the long term if they can find something to spend the excess $$ on that make them better than they would be with Jr.

KoryMac5
05-12-2006, 12:44 PM
The Yankee cupboard is bare no pitching what so ever they can call all day long and ask for Griffey and Kearns and the answer will definitely be no.

flyer85
05-12-2006, 12:46 PM
The Yankee cupboard is bare no pitching what so ever they can call all day long and ask for Griffey and Kearns and the answer will definitely be no.They have a couple of good pitching prospects but they are not major league ready. I trade Jr for Wang and a minor leaguer but I doubt the Yanks would.

OldXOhio
05-12-2006, 12:48 PM
That doesn't make the Reds better in the short term

I didn't say it helped the team in the short term. I fully acknowledge that this year's team may not be better off by doing this.


and only helps in the long term if they can find something to spend the excess $$ on that make them better than they would be with Jr.

I'd be willing to allow Krivsky a chance at improving the team with the added funds.

edabbs44
05-12-2006, 12:51 PM
They have a couple of good pitching prospects but they are not major league ready. I trade Jr for Wang and a minor leaguer but I doubt the Yanks would.

I wouldn't want Wang...he isn't the picture of health himself.

flyer85
05-12-2006, 12:53 PM
I wouldn't want Wang...he isn't the picture of health himself.he is a GB machine that doesn't give up many HRs. A very good fit for GABP.

Z-Fly
05-12-2006, 01:08 PM
Yeah... The Yanks are looking for anouther ageing centerfielder. They wouldn't want Griffey unless he plays DH.

UK Reds Fan
05-12-2006, 01:40 PM
Would a swap of Pavano for Griff be that terrible? Don't know how healthy Pavano will be this season, but I would suppose he'd improve greatly over Williams/Milton at back of rotation and ideally could replace Claussen at 3rd spot with any return to form. And the salaries would identically swap themselves out.

edabbs44
05-12-2006, 01:56 PM
Would a swap of Pavano for Griff be that terrible? Don't know how healthy Pavano will be this season, but I would suppose he'd improve greatly over Williams/Milton at back of rotation and ideally could replace Claussen at 3rd spot with any return to form. And the salaries would identically swap themselves out.

I think it would be a disaster. Not to try and start any ugly rumors, but Pavano is a guy I would be worried about where his past performance is a little tainted by chemical enhancements. It seems like a lot of these accused players need some time off while their bodies get used to the changes. Look at Giambi and Bonds, both took nearly a year off after testing began. Did you ever see a routine knee operation knock someone out for a year?

I have never heard any rock solid info regarding injuries to Pavano. It seems like he has a new excuse every time he is ready to come back. This time he bruised his butt when he fell down on the field...give me a break. Even last year Cashman came out and said he had no idea what was wrong with the guy.

UK Reds Fan
05-12-2006, 02:02 PM
I think it would be a disaster. Not to try and start any ugly rumors, but Pavano is a guy I would be worried about where his past performance is a little tainted by chemical enhancements. It seems like a lot of these accused players need some time off while their bodies get used to the changes. Look at Giambi and Bonds, both took nearly a year off after testing began. Did you ever see a routine knee operation knock someone out for a year?

I have never heard any rock solid info regarding injuries to Pavano. It seems like he has a new excuse every time he is ready to come back. This time he bruised his butt when he fell down on the field...give me a break. Even last year Cashman came out and said he had no idea what was wrong with the guy.

That is a great point, didn't consider the chemical factor with this guys performance that past year and half.

edabbs44
05-12-2006, 03:15 PM
That is a great point, didn't consider the chemical factor with this guys performance that past year and half.

Just a thought, since he has had these mysterious injuries.

Matt700wlw
05-12-2006, 03:20 PM
Someone needs to tell ESPN that just because they're the Yankees, doesn't mean every other team in the league will bow to them and give them what they want.

One thing with Krivsky....he won't let the Yankees toy him....O'Brien would.

KronoRed
05-12-2006, 03:35 PM
I would love to see what the Yankees forums are saying. "We'll just go get the star of any team because we are the yanks!"
That's pretty much what they are like.

RedEye
05-12-2006, 03:41 PM
If we trade them Griff or Kearns, we need to get a nice package in return. Like some people on the Old Red Guard suggested, I say
Griffey = Wang, Cabrera + cash
Kearns = Wang + Hughes
That's where we start. Otherwise the Yanks can go look elsewhere.

vaticanplum
05-12-2006, 03:47 PM
I would like to point out that not one word has been said in the Yankees camp about acquiring a big-name replacement. It is the media and the fans jumping to the immediate, easy-out way to hate the Yankees: oh, look at the money they're going to spend, look at the arrogance. Of course the Yankees tend to go a little nuts in the off-season when they have time to think about things, but they have not shown that they have any intention of doing so right now when Sheffield's return time is still uncertain and yes, pitching is a bigger concern.

The irony kind of astounds me: people jumping all over the Yankees for their intentions to spend money on a quick replacement, when the only people who have said anything about such intentions are the yelling people themselves.

Statements from Cashman:

"For now, Cashman said he has no plans to pursue a player via trade to replace Matsui, choosing instead to see what the organization's system can provide.

"We want to assess what we have first," Cashman said. "If you go to the trade market, you'll have to spend from your system. Let's see what we have first. " "

"We want to make sure we don't have the answer here," Cashman said. "We had a number of young players step up for us last year, so let's find out first and foremost in-house if we don't have people capable of helping us fill holes."

Statement from Torre:
"Some role players will have to step up a little bit," Torre said. "We're going to have to dig in and go get 'em."

The Yankees plan to recall outfielder Kevin Reese from Triple-A Columbus on Friday to take Matsui's roster spot, but Cashman said that Reese would be a bench player for New York."

Statement from Matsui, who underwent successful surgery today and is expected to make a full recovery (no date set yet):

"Due to this injury, I feel very sorry and, at the same time, very disappointed to have let my teammates down. I will do my best to fully recover and return to the field to help my team once again. I would like to thank Joe Torre from the bottom of my heart for having been considerate of my consecutive games played streak these past several years and for placing me in the lineup every day."

vaticanplum
05-12-2006, 03:51 PM
And for the record, Yankees fans -- and I am surrounded by them in life and frequent internerd message boards as well -- are by and large quite critical of the spend-money-quick-fix Steinbrenner approach as well. To state otherwise is to draw yet another conclusion about the Yankees by non-Yankees fans with no legitimate basis.

edabbs44
05-12-2006, 03:55 PM
And for the record, Yankees fans -- and I am surrounded by them in life and frequent internerd message boards as well -- are by and large quite critical of the spend-money-quick-fix Steinbrenner approach as well. To state otherwise is to draw yet another conclusion about the Yankees by non-Yankees fans with no legitimate basis.

I would agree with that, except for one disclaimer. They definitely are critical as soon as a deal is made. But they have very short memories and love these deals when Unit is throwing well or when ARod is winning an MVP, thinking once again that Cashman is the smartest GM around and Torre is the grand pooba of MLB. Living in NJ, I see this all the time.

vaticanplum
05-12-2006, 03:59 PM
I would agree with that, except for one disclaimer. They definitely are critical as soon as a deal is made. But they have very short memories and love these deals when Unit is throwing well or when ARod is winning an MVP, thinking once again that Cashman is the smartest GM around and Torre is the grand pooba of MLB. Living in NJ, I see this all the time.

That's true. That's also most baseball fans though. There are exceptions: I will never think that Randy Johnson was a good trade, even if he pitches a perfect game in the World Series. But that's pretty irrational of me -- in a logical world, wouldn't that trade have then been considered a good one?

But I just wanted to throw a reminder in there, after the blanket statement that Yankees fans are running around message boards saying that "since we're the Yanks, we should go get anyone we want." Patently not true.

UK Reds Fan
05-12-2006, 04:09 PM
If the Yanks start to tumble a bit behind Boston in the East and Cleveland gets on their horse in the Central challenging the Yanks post-season hopes, I think you'll see Cashman and Yankee brass to a quick about face and make knee-jerk reactions like they do in most years that they have a challenger to them.

vaticanplum
05-12-2006, 04:15 PM
If the Yanks start to tumble a bit behind Boston in the East and Cleveland gets on their horse in the Central challenging the Yanks post-season hopes, I think you'll see Cashman and Yankee brass to a quick about face and make knee-jerk reactions like they do in most years that they have a challenger to them.

Can I ask what knee-jerk reactions they made last season when they trailed Baltimore and Boston alternately until September? Acquiring Shawn Chacon (a surprisingly good move that any contending team would have been wise to make as borderline contenders in July)? Bringing up Wang, Cano and Small?

Cashman and Torre have hinted pretty strongly that they've tired of the knee-jerk reactions that Steinbrenner makes, and Steinbrenner, batty as he is, has calmed down and listened to them more in the last few years. A-Rod was costly, but was made with an eye towards the future. Johnson was dumb. Damon was a legitimate move that actually DROPPED salary from their payroll with the demotion of Williams and the loss of Kevin Brown. And all of these happened in the off-season.

If they make a big-name move, we'll talk about it then; I probably won't like it any more than you do. But until then, criticizing the Yankees for a move that they *may* make, based solely on the fair and knowing opinions of millions of Yankee haters, is baseless and irrelevent.

vermonter
05-12-2006, 04:18 PM
The recent Sox-Yankees series was very interesting both in a strategic sense and a tactical sense. The tactics employed were good by both managers, and showed the beauty of the concept of the unbalanced schedule. Both teams made several good tactical adjustments that made the series interesting from a lineup/rotation level to a laying off certain pitches/sign stealing level. I'm sure you see similar things in the N.L. Central head-to-head games.

On the strategic level, however, the Yankees three main weaknesses really got exposed:

1. Lousy defense
2. Mediocre bullpen
3. Lack of bench

The Sox team still isn't firing on all cylinders (and maybe never will this season), but only the stellar pitching of Mussina kept them from sweeping the Yankees because they played solid fundamental ball.

No team in baseball has a bigger dropoff from its starters to its bench than the Yankees, who simply cannot win without huge offensive numbers from its starters.

I can't imagine that the Reds would trade Kearns while in first place, or in contention, although the opportunity of unloading Griffey's contract might neither hurt the Reds nor help the Yankees, given his injury propensity. Hopefully, teams will resist unloading high-priced talent to the Yankees at least until late July by which time the Yanks are hopefully 22 games behind Boston/Toronto. :)

edabbs44
05-12-2006, 04:24 PM
Can I ask what knee-jerk reactions they made last season when they trailed Baltimore and Boston alternately until September? Acquiring Shawn Chacon (a surprisingly good move that any contending team would have been wise to make as borderline contenders in July)? Bringing up Wang, Cano and Small?

Cashman and Torre have hinted pretty strongly that they've tired of the knee-jerk reactions that Steinbrenner makes, and Steinbrenner, batty as he is, has calmed down and listened to them more in the last few years. A-Rod was costly, but was made with an eye towards the future. Johnson was dumb. Damon was a legitimate move that actually DROPPED salary from their payroll with the demotion of Williams and the loss of Kevin Brown. And all of these happened in the off-season.

If they make a big-name move, we'll talk about it then; I probably won't like it any more than you do. But until then, criticizing the Yankees for a move that they *may* make, based solely on the fair and knowing opinions of millions of Yankee haters, is baseless and irrelevent.

They couldn't make a knee-jerk reaction last year since they had no one to trade..they were the biggest shoppers last year but couldn't close any deals b/c of the lack of depth in the farm.

UK Reds Fan
05-12-2006, 04:35 PM
1. I would call A. Boone's acquisition a knee jerk move.
2. Randy Johnson's could be as well for what they paid to move Vasquez for a 40 yr old pitcher.
3. Spitting the bit on Contreras for Loiza (who had a history of mediocre pitching vs. one very good season) wasn't a very patient decision.

Just to name a few.

vaticanplum
05-12-2006, 04:40 PM
They couldn't make a knee-jerk reaction last year since they had no one to trade..they were the biggest shoppers last year but couldn't close any deals b/c of the lack of depth in the farm.

I'm getting a little tired of defending the Yankees at every turn. They have HUGE holes in their team. Their farm system is terrible. They spend money frivolously and unwisely. They are short-sighted. They are run by a crochety old man who terrorizes his front office and his players into submission. All of this is true, and I am the first one to criticize it.

But you know what? Every team has huge holes, and we seem to be able to debate those while focusing in on a single point and backing our arguments with facts. If a negative point about the Yankees is made, nobody questions it regardless of whether there are facts to back it up. When the Yankees come up, we run in circles.

To summarize this thread: Oh, they're going to trade for a big-name player. Actually, they've made no indications that they want to do so right now; quite the contrary in fact. Well, they will at the deadline; they always do. Actually, they didn't do that in the most recent season in which they were borderline contenders. Well, they didn't do it because they couldn't based on their farm system. (although, for the record, several teams were rumored to be interested in both Cano and Wang, and they refused to trade them.)

Well look, we're right back where we started. We can all agree that the Yankees still have no farm system. So what indications do we have, again, that the Yankees will be trading for a big-name player? Or is it just the easiest argument to pull out with the Yankees because the way they operate is hated by so many that no one will question it?

I'll listen to stats pointing out their lack of defense. I will buy you a beer if you want to commiserate over the performance of that lout Randy Johnson with me. I will go over their payroll with a fine-tooth comb with you and look for legitimate, long-term solutions that we can put on perfumed paper and mail to George Steinbrenner. But when people start throwing out any argument they can about the Yankees involving the catch-all phrases "money" or "farm system", to the point where they actually end up contradicting themselves, I start to lose it a little bit.