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View Full Version : Graves is gone.... again.



RedsMan3203
05-13-2006, 12:16 AM
Per Marc -


Friday, May 12, 2006
Indians swing the ax

Cleveland designated Danny Graves for assignment after tonight's game.

We're only 11 days from the one-year anniversary of the Reds designating Graves last year.

indyred
05-13-2006, 12:18 AM
White should join him

CTA513
05-13-2006, 12:19 AM
Pick him up, he will fit right in with the current bullpen.

captainmorgan07
05-13-2006, 12:21 AM
that cleveland pen is as bad as ours and there younger

bucknutdet
05-13-2006, 12:23 AM
Talk about someone's arm falling off. He'd (Graves) be it.

westofyou
05-13-2006, 12:26 AM
Once again I'll note that Danny is short,over 30 and throws with his right arm.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35371

CTA513
05-13-2006, 12:26 AM
that cleveland pen is as bad as ours and there younger

they have young guys that can improve, we have old guys that will probably retire soon.

KronoRed
05-13-2006, 12:27 AM
No boos today. ;)

Super_Barry11
05-13-2006, 12:29 AM
Oh wow, I was at the game in Cleveland tonight... I was going to go by the bullpen and take his picture, but I was too lazy and figured I could get one another time. I know most people don't like him here, but I thought he was a nice guy and wanted to see him succeed. :(

StillFunkyB
05-13-2006, 12:33 AM
Oh wow, I was at the game in Cleveland tonight... I was going to go by the bullpen and take his picture, but I was too lazy and figured I could get one another time. I know most people don't like him here, but I thought he was a nice guy and wanted to see him succeed. :(

Danny is a great guy. Unfortunately his pitching isn't.

savafan
05-13-2006, 01:04 AM
We'll see Danny again when he's elected to the Reds' Hall of Fame. He's the organization's all-time saves leader, so it will happen...it's just a matter of time.

CTA513
05-13-2006, 01:09 AM
Reds should keep up the power of tradition by bring him back. ;)

KronoRed
05-13-2006, 01:26 AM
We'll see Danny again when he's elected to the Reds' Hall of Fame. He's the organization's all-time saves leader, so it will happen...it's just a matter of time.
How bout July in 2040? :D

TeamBoone
05-13-2006, 01:56 AM
I know most people don't like him here, but I thought he was a nice guy and wanted to see him succeed.

Me too, SB.




Danny is a great guy. Unfortunately his pitching isn't.

If you really think he's a great guy, you're in the minority around this neck of the woods.

Yes, his pitching went down the toilet. But there seems to be a whole lot of animosity towards Graves here as he's been ridiculed to death, even before the "bird" incident... from his hair, to his weight gain, to his tattoos, and back again. Even his mother's physical appearance was made fun of.

I guess if someone shouted "Go back to Nam" at me, I'd flip them off too. Things like that don't amuse me.

savafan
05-13-2006, 02:10 AM
I guess if someone shouted "Go back to Nam" at me, I'd flip them off too. Things like that don't amuse me.

TB, if someone said that to me, they'd be lucky if flipping them off was all I did to them.

MrCinatit
05-13-2006, 07:45 AM
I really do hope Danny realizes this is probably it, and hangs it up. Getting cut by three teams in less than a year is a pretty good indication it is over - I really hope he does realize this.

Gizmo
05-13-2006, 01:11 PM
how long's the waver period? Just wanna know when to expect to see him back with Weathers, White, and Hammond...

WVRedsFan
05-13-2006, 01:27 PM
Danny was a victim of his managers and general managers. Bowden offered him a ridiculous contract because he had the strange notion that he could be a starter, which was a disaster. Then, when going back to the bullpen, he was never the same (which was really not that great either--in 808+ career innings he gave up 857 hits, had a 4.05 career ERA and stuck out an average of only one per 2 innings--not closer stuff for sure). His problem was his attitude when losing. It never seemed to bother him. And the idiot managers we have had--Boone and Miley to be specific, continued to march him out to close when it was obvious that Danny couldn't get folks out anymore, much less close a game. As a player Danny was just doing what he was supposed to do. Too bad he didn't have it anymore.

Curiously, over the last ten games, Graves was still giving up more hits than innings, but in 1 or 2 inning stints, he was at least as good as our bullpen (in 10.2 innings, he gave up 12 hits and 5 earned runs for an ERA of 4.41). It's just that teams demand more than the Reds do.

I really wanted him off this team for not only his pitching, but his attitude in the clubhouse. When they DFA'd him, it was the beginning of the new attitude on the Reds which was completed when RCast took ownership and WayneK became GM. I do not want him back and I don't think either of those guys do either.

MartyFan
05-13-2006, 01:31 PM
Danny was one of our best pitchers and loved this team and town so much that he changed from the closer to the rotation...he got jacked up physically in the process and felt like he got jacked up by the organization.

Remember when we used to like our pen? we had a strong BP...with Sullivan, Williams, Graves and a couple others...remember when the pen was the strength of our team for a three or four year stretch?

westofyou
05-13-2006, 01:34 PM
Remember when we used to like our pen? we had a strong BP...with Sullivan, Williams, Graves and a couple others...remember when the pen was the strength of our team for a three or four year stretch?And the were all driven into the ground, they were also the main reason in 1999 that the pitching staff survived.

Relievers are the pop stars of baseball, short, furious lives.

WVRedsFan
05-13-2006, 02:08 PM
Danny was one of our best pitchers and loved this team and town so much that he changed from the closer to the rotation...he got jacked up physically in the process and felt like he got jacked up by the organization.

Remember when we used to like our pen? we had a strong BP...with Sullivan, Williams, Graves and a couple others...remember when the pen was the strength of our team for a three or four year stretch?

Whether he became a starter because he loved the team only Danny Graves knows. It probably had a lot to do with the $$$ offered, but that's not fair either since I don't know.

I do know that under the Bowden regime, the theory was to throw a bunch of washed up pitchers into the mix, have Don Gullett "fix" them, and depend on your bullpen. Trouble was, like is said elsewhere in this thread, we either wore the bullpen out or they did so well, we couldn't afford them. In the meantime, Bowden was collecting every 5-tool failure in the world instead of spending on pitching. Like WayneK says it not how much money you have but how you spend it.

But after thinking about it for the last year, a lot of Danny's problems (and others too) was the attitude that ran through this franchise. With Bowden doing whatever he wanted (collecting the Reggie Taylors and WMPs and giving contracts to the Jimmie Haynes' and Ryan Dempsters of the world) and management simply doing dumb things, the attitude from nearly top to bottom was "who cares." Danny reflected that when he told Milton he should come to Cinci because there was no pressure.

With the main architects of that attitude (Lindner, Bowden, Boone, Miley, and certain unnamed players) gone, we have a competitive baseball team. We will get better in good time. How any of us survived that period still Reds fans is beyond me and I'm one of them.

CySeymour
05-13-2006, 02:41 PM
I thought I had read that Graves really didn't want to be a starter, but did it "for the team." Plus if I remember correctly, they made him a starter at the end of one season, gave him the big contract in the off-season, and then he spent most of the next season in the rotation. If he didn't want to be a starter, why didn't he just not sign a contract and go free agent?

saboforthird
05-13-2006, 03:04 PM
Danny is a great guy. Unfortunately his pitching isn't.

He doesn't care about his baseball too much, though. Refer back to an interview he did a few years ago on SNL.

fisch11
05-13-2006, 03:09 PM
I've been teasing an Indians fan I know ever since he made the team in the Spring. I said, "Just wait, you'll be calling for his head. He just doesn't have any velocity or stuff anymore." He shrugged me off. Then after Graves gave up that first pitch grand slam to Richie Sexson out of the pen he called me up and concurred.

Big Klu
05-13-2006, 03:34 PM
I don't like Danny Graves. He is the player I have disliked most as a Red, and he remains my single-most disliked player in baseball (including Barry Bonds). And it has nothing to do with his poor performance. It has everything to do with his attitude. I'm not talking about his "no pressure" comment to Eric Milton or the alleged "frat house" atmosphere in the clubhouse, and I couldn't care less about his hair, his weight (unless it directly adversely affected his play), his tattoos, or where he came from. My negative opinion of him has everything to do with his disparaging comments made in the press towards the fans, which turned me against him a long time ago. Comments like (paraphrased):

"It would be great to play for Cleveland. They have real fans." (That one worked out really well, didn't it, Danny?)

"What do you expect from the drunks from West Virginia?"

"Sure, losing hurts. But what really hurts is when the fans boo. It makes us feel really small."

Graves had no problem with insulting the fans--calling us "drunks from West Virginia", suggesting that we weren't "real fans", implying that we were found lacking when compared to the "great fans from Cleveland". So it should be no surprise that many fans (including myself) have turned against him. Some of you may think that I am holding a grudge. Well, you would be right. But I booed him in the last few weeks he played for the Reds--after he made the negative comments about us, the fans, in the newspapers. I booed him every time he made an appearance for the Mets and Indians, and I swore that I would continue to boo him until he was driven in disgrace from the game I love. So, just in case I never get another chance:

BOOOOOOOO DANNY GRAVES!!!!

ochre
05-13-2006, 03:38 PM
Danny's performance began to deteriorate before the move to starter. The fact he was so bad as, and after that stint as, a starter is just a happy coincidence.

Chip R
05-13-2006, 03:53 PM
Even his mother's physical appearance was made fun of.

I guess if someone shouted "Go back to Nam" at me, I'd flip them off too. Things like that don't amuse me.

Now hold the phone. I know a lot of people have ridiculed Danny for various things but I do not remember anyone making fun of his mother or her appearance. I do remember a photo of Danny and his mother earlier this year when they were visiting Vietnam and some people may have said which is which when it was shown that it was Danny and his mother because Danny had very long hair at the time. But I do not recall anyone making fun of his mother. I would sure like to see a link to any of those comments if any were made because I do not remember any.

As for Danny flipping that fan off, not to excuse the fan or what he said but does anyone think there are players on this team, and others, who have not heard just as bad, if not worse, from fans? Rarely does a player react to comments from fans. Anyone think Jr. has not heard racial comments here and elsewhere? I certainly have not seen or heard about him flipping off fans or doing something similar. Next time you go to the park, look at the retired numbers. In every major league stadium is the number 42. Think what Jackie Robinson had to endure from players, the coaches and managers, the media and the fans. He certainly put up with a thousand times more than what Danny Graves had to put up with that fateful May day of 2005.

westofyou
05-13-2006, 03:55 PM
He certainly put up with a thousand times more than what Danny Graves had to put up with that fateful May day of 2005.True... but did he get to drive home in a Rolls wearing a camouflage shirt?

I think not.

KittyDuran
05-13-2006, 04:05 PM
Now hold the phone. I know a lot of people have ridiculed Danny for various things but I do not remember anyone making fun of his mother or her appearance. I do remember a photo of Danny and his mother earlier this year when they were visiting Vietnam and some people may have said which is which when it was shown that it was Danny and his mother because Danny had very long hair at the time. But I do not recall anyone making fun of his mother. I would sure like to see a link to any of those comments if any were made because I do not remember any.

As for Danny flipping that fan off, not to excuse the fan or what he said but does anyone think there are players on this team, and others, who have not heard just as bad, if not worse, from fans? Rarely does a player react to comments from fans. Anyone think Jr. has not heard racial comments here and elsewhere? I certainly have not seen or heard about him flipping off fans or doing something similar. Next time you go to the park, look at the retired numbers. In every major league stadium is the number 42. Think what Jackie Robinson had to endure from players, the coaches and managers, the media and the fans. He certainly put up with a thousand times more than what Danny Graves had to put up with that fateful May day of 2005.Chip, I believe TB was referring to this thread and the last few posts...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42219&highlight=vietnam

Chip R
05-13-2006, 04:17 PM
Chip, I believe TB was referring to this thread and the last few posts...

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42219&highlight=vietnam

Thanks for the link Kitty, but I do not see anyone making fun of his mother in that thread. There was a post made about the two sharing makeup tips but I took that as a jab at his appearance which looked somewhat feminine than as a shot at his mother.

Matt700wlw
05-13-2006, 05:18 PM
He feels small.

StillFunkyB
05-13-2006, 05:18 PM
If you really think he's a great guy, you're in the minority around this neck of the woods.

I never had a problem with Danny. I dealt with him on more than one occasion, and he was just like any other guy. Didn't even mind talking a little baseball.

As for "the bird" incident, what he did was wrong, but you can understand why someone would be provoked to do such a thing. He was already upset, and I'm sure we have all done inappropriate things given similar circumstances.

No he was never a great pitcher, but he got the job done on more than one occasion.

I have met many a ballplayer that were not 1/8th the person Danny Graves is.

Wheelhouse
05-13-2006, 06:00 PM
The Cleveland manager call Graves "a tough competitor." Nonsense. He's out of shape and candy-coats his poor performances. Ugh, it disgusts me to even think about that loser. He took the money and ran, betraying his teammates and Cincy.

KoryMac5
05-13-2006, 09:25 PM
I never had a problem with Graves he did a lot on a little.

KronoRed
05-13-2006, 09:30 PM
I didn't have a problem with Graves till he got to new york and it seemed a new article popped up everyday of him blaming everything that happened on the Reds and Reds fans, nothing was on him.

Joseph
05-13-2006, 09:53 PM
I didn't have a problem with Graves till he got to new york and it seemed a new article popped up everyday of him blaming everything that happened on the Reds and Reds fans, nothing was on him.

Thats when he started to bug me as well.

Chip R
05-13-2006, 11:50 PM
Graves was never Billy Wagner or Goose Gossage or even Trevor Hoffman. He was never an elite closer. He was a very good closer but even when he was going well there was always something in the back of your mind that was telling you that he may blow this game. Williamson too but that is another story.

It is funny, I went straight from work last night to the game. After the game GAC and I had a couple of drinks at Arnolds and then went home. I did not get on line except to check e mails. And I did not get on line this morning before I left for my SABR meeting at the Reds HOF & Museum. So I had no idea Graves had been DFAed.

When I go there I like to walk past the Big Wall of 4192 Balls and right around the corner are pictures of Reds record setters. Right around that corner is a big picture of Danny Graves indicating his record number of saves. The first time I saw that picture, everyone on here was talking about how Danny had gained weight. I do not usually pay attention to weight gains or losses since you see these guys so often, any change happens slowly and you do not really notice. I never noticed it until the first time I saw that picture and I said to myself, Wow! he has gained a lot of weight since then. I did the same thing today when I was there and I looked at that picture, unbeknowst to me that he had just been DFAed earlier that day or the night before. Kind of funny.

I guess what my point is, to come to it in that roundabout way, is that I think Danny got complacent here. That was a big problem. He signed the big contract and did not feel like he had to get in shape to pitch. What is an extra 5 pounds or 10 pounds? And, possibly, perhaps he got thinking more about what his next tatoo or body piercing was going to be and how long was he going to let his hair grow instead of how to get guys out. Should he learn how to pitch from the windup? There is about $6M reasons why. Naaaah, he can just get another tattoo and order another pizza while watching football with Case. After all, it is not like he will not get paid if he stinks.

Does that make Danny a bad person? No, just human. Like all of us. We expect our heroes to be 10 feet tall and bulletproof. We expect them, however unrealistic it may be, to use the offseason to make themselves better, to workout 8 hours a day 7 days a week or study film. When they get complacent and their performance deteriorates, we get angry because they are not supposed to slough off. After all, they are our heroes. We are the ones who can slough off. We are the ones who can get away with a beer gut because we do not need to be in top shape for our jobs, most of us, anyway. We can go to work and not necessarily do a bad job, but not necessarily give our hearts, minds and souls to our work. We get the job done but sometimes you think you could have done that quicker. We do not want to see those traits in our heroes. If Danny had stayed in peak physical condition and gave the appearance that he did not accept failure, I do not think there would have been such schadenfreude over his poor performances and getting released twice since he was released here.

I know people get down on Milton and Wilson but I think most people realize that they work as hard as they can to pitch as well as they can. It was not their faults the Reds signed them. If either or both of those two were released and signed on with another team and they did not have success, people on here would feel bad for them because they worked hard while they were here. They would be glad they are not pitching here but they would not take satisfaction at their failures.

Danny kind of reminds me of Nuke in Bull Durham. Early in the movie Crash noticed Nuke's shower shoes were filthy and had fungus on them. Nuke did not think it was a big deal. Crash told him, "When you win 20 games in the Show, you can have fungus on your shower shoes and people will think you are colorful. But until then, you're a slob." When Danny was saving 35 games a year and was getting tattoos and piercings, people thought he was colorful. But when his performance went downhill, he became a fat, tattooed, pierced slob.

NastyBoy
05-14-2006, 04:46 PM
His 5.79 ERA is lower than White, Shackelford, Milton, Burns and Hammond. Sign him right away.