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Krusty
05-13-2006, 11:00 AM
Just modifying those Willis and Cabrera trade rumors:

Reds deal LHP Brandon Claussen, RHP Homer Bailey, 3rd baseman Edwin Encarncion and OF Chris Denorifa to Florida for LHP Dontrelle Willis and 3rd baseman Miguel Cabrera.

Now if you're both teams, would you do the deal?

For the Reds you have a big three in the starting rotation of Harang, Arroyo and Willis to go with Milton and either Ramirez or Williams. It sends a message to the fans that the Reds are interested in winning now and the immediate future with the acquistions of Willis and Cabrera.

Even though you lose Encarncion, Cabrera's bat provides righthand pop to go with Austin Kearns in the middle of the lineup.

The Marlins get younger and cheaper while accumulating more young talent to rebuild.

So again, do you pull the trigger?

RedEye
05-13-2006, 11:14 AM
Yes, of course I pull the trigger, even if Willis has been stinking it up this year. This is, however, the umpteenth time I've seen speculation about this trade, and I don't think the Fish would EVER do it in a million years. No way.

MattyHo4Life
05-13-2006, 11:18 AM
I don't see any reason why the Marlins trade Cabrera. He is cheap, young, and one of the best players in the game. I can see why they would trade Willis, but not Cabrera.

captainmorgan07
05-13-2006, 11:18 AM
fish have already stated there not trading both but i have a hunch they trade willis i like their roatation now even if it is young they have potential

westofyou
05-13-2006, 11:23 AM
The Marlins get younger and cheaper while accumulating more young talent to rebuild.

Claussen, Ed E and Denorfia are all older than Willis and Cabrea.

Krusty
05-13-2006, 11:26 AM
Scale the trade down and make it.....

Willis for Claussen and Bailey?

kyle1976
05-13-2006, 11:53 AM
Trading Bailey = Bad Idea

How about Claussen, Denorfia, and Bergolla for Willis?? Wishful thinking.

RedEye
05-13-2006, 11:54 AM
Scale the trade down and make it.....

Willis for Claussen and Bailey?

Willis ain't fooling anyone these days. His peripheral stats have been troublesome for awhile and that funny leg kick no longer seems to distract hitters from his average stuff. I would understand if the Reds made a trade like this, and I'm sure Kriv would become even more of a local legend when it went through, but I don't think we want to give up a league average starter and a top-50 prospect (our only top one who is a pitcher) for such a question mark. Maybe if he returns to form we can consider it.

Heath
05-13-2006, 12:01 PM
Thanks again Krusty.

But, I'll pass - there's something about Willis this year (WBC, Crappy Team, et. al.) that makes me wonder if his time is done.

Plus, this whole stadium thing - those are the two guys that they can "market".

I always thought the Marlins should just invade Cuba. Make'm the Cuban National All-exile Team. They probably would win the NL East.

dougdirt
05-13-2006, 12:03 PM
I pass on that trade every day of the week if I were the Reds.

Heath
05-13-2006, 12:04 PM
I pass on that trade every day of the week if I were the Reds.

at least all the ones the end in "y"....... :D

Patrick Bateman
05-13-2006, 12:07 PM
How about Claussen, Denorfia, and Bergolla for Willis?? Wishful thinking.

If Willis is available, there is going to be a huge bidding war. They wont take a mixed bag of spare parts for him. it will take your best young players.

reds44
05-13-2006, 12:16 PM
Actually I don't know if I would do that.

Heath
05-13-2006, 12:30 PM
If Willis is available, there is going to be a huge bidding war. They wont take a mixed bag of spare parts for him. it will take your best young players.

The Mets will find out any deal and overpay completely of Willis.

Just my 2 cents -

I'd focus in on some bullpen help. Wonder what Cliff Politte would gather? It's those type of trades that will help ballclubs.

Redmachine2003
05-13-2006, 12:31 PM
Player Comparison
Player Comparison


Create new Player Comparison
Name Team G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
Miguel Cabrera FLA 33 122 26 41 12 1 5 25 21 21 3 1 .336 .441 .574 1.015
Edwin Encarnación CIN 33 120 23 35 11 1 6 28 17 22 0 1 .292 .393 .550 .943


EE and Cabrera are pretty even and Willis has gotten hammered lately. So why would you make that trade???? Willis might be heading down the Prior and Wood road right now.

Redmachine2003
05-13-2006, 12:33 PM
I also get the feeling Homer may be pitching for the Reds after the all-star break.

Heath
05-13-2006, 12:35 PM
I also get the feeling Homer may be pitching for the Reds after the all-star break.

this isn't a personal attack, but the kid's not even sniffed AA yet. I hope you are incorrect.

I'll take that statement, Sept. 2007. Any Homer Bailey appearences in a Cincinnati uniform during the regular season is akin to sending up a white flag IMO.

redsfan4445
05-13-2006, 12:51 PM
We cant trade Homer... is the the best #1 prospect that is proving himself.. Willis isnt fooling anyone and either he is hiding something since they said on TV his arm angle isnt right!!! NO dont make this deal

RedsMan3203
05-13-2006, 12:57 PM
As I stated once upon a time...

pass.

Krusty
05-13-2006, 03:23 PM
Unlike LHP Barry Zito, the Reds would control the rights to Willis in 2007 and 2008. And the rumor mill has the Mets possibly offering their best prospect, OF Lastings Milledge in a deal for Zito. So what do you think the price would be for Willis?

In regards to Homer Bailey, would the Reds be hyping him up as much if the farm system was deep in prospects? And while the Texas native might stir up hopes of a future Roger Clemens or Josh Beckett he could end up being another Scott Scudder or Jack Armstrong.

Dontrelle Willis is a proven commodity. And even though he has been in a rut lately, you just look at his career numbers to know he would be the ace to this staff and give the Reds a solid three in Harang, Arroyo and Willis.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=5470

So the question has to be asked......

"Do you let Homer Bailey be the stumbling block to possibly acquiring a frontline starter (like Willis) that could put this team in contention for a possible playoff spot?"

Falls City Beer
05-13-2006, 03:26 PM
If Willis isn't injured, I'd do the above deal, minus Encarnacion. But I'd want a thorough examination by a panel of doctors, not a shuffling of old doctor's records.

KronoRed
05-13-2006, 03:29 PM
Scale the trade down and make it.....

Willis for Claussen and Bailey?
I'd do it.

Willis may be stinking right now but I like his chances to rebound better then I like Claussen, and Baily is years away.

Krusty
05-13-2006, 03:32 PM
If Willis isn't injured, I'd do the above deal, minus Encarnacion. But I'd want a thorough examination by a panel of doctors, not a shuffling of old doctor's records.

Pretty much these days a trade isn't done till the players involved pass physical exams.

Krusty
05-13-2006, 03:33 PM
I'd do it.

Willis may be stinking right now but I like his chances to rebound better then I like Claussen, and Baily is years away.

With Willis I think it is his mechanics that might need tinkering. That is a big difference than having a physical problem.

Falls City Beer
05-13-2006, 03:35 PM
Pretty much these days a trade isn't done till the players involved pass physical exams.

Right, but something tells me that Bowden, for instance, didn't do an excellent job of vetting Neagle's condition in the Boone/Neagle deal of 99. I think a number of teams just sort of "take the chance" with older medical records or one doctor's opinion.

Krusty
05-13-2006, 03:43 PM
Right, but something tells me that Bowden, for instance, didn't do an excellent job of vetting Neagle's condition in the Boone/Neagle deal of 99. I think a number of teams just sort of "take the chance" with older medical records or one doctor's opinion.

Speaking of which, what pitcher did Bowden send to the Giants that SF GM Brian Sabean claimed was damaged goods and Bowden never mentioned anything that he was possibly injured. Since that deal, Sabean swore he would never deal with Bowden again. I'm just wondering who that pitcher was?

Redmachine2003
05-13-2006, 03:46 PM
With Willis I think it is his mechanics that might need tinkering. That is a big difference than having a physical problem.
I disagree most Mechanic problems are related to an injury. When the Mechanics have been fine up until that point. There is a reason why he would change his Mechanics.

MattyHo4Life
05-13-2006, 04:23 PM
Speaking of which, what pitcher did Bowden send to the Giants that SF GM Brian Sabean claimed was damaged goods and Bowden never mentioned anything that he was possibly injured. Since that deal, Sabean swore he would never deal with Bowden again. I'm just wondering who that pitcher was?

Bowden did that with the Giants too? I thought he just did it to the Cardinals.

buckeyenut
05-13-2006, 09:02 PM
I love Encarnacion and he is doing great. But he is no Miggy Cabrera. I do that deal even if Willis might be a risk to perform at the level we need.

CTA513
05-13-2006, 09:03 PM
I love Encarnacion and he is doing great. But he is no Miggy Cabrera. I do that deal even if Willis might be a risk to perform at the level we need.

Once Cabreras contract runs out he will be asking for a big salary increase.

MattyHo4Life
05-13-2006, 09:26 PM
Once Cabreras contract runs out he will be asking for a big salary increase.

He should because he deserves it.

Hondo
05-14-2006, 04:25 AM
Homer Bailey will probably be called up and do some 7th-8th inning work...

But I don't think a Trade with the Marlins is gonna cost you Bailey for Cabrera or Willis. Look who they got for Luis Castillo from the Twins.

EE for Cabrera. You have to do it. Willis? You have 3 guys you keep no matter what. Bruce, Bailey, and Votto.

Cabrera and/or Willis will not cost the Reds any one of those 3. The Marlins want quanity Prospects, not nessacerily "The Gems".

Oh, and it doesn't matter if the Mets offer the "Total Package" for Zito. The Yankees are gonna pour out the $ (Do-Ray-Mee) for Barry Zito.

Dreaming:

Harang
Zito
Arroyo
Willis
Bailey

YUMM!!!

JaredRoberts.com

MattyHo4Life
05-14-2006, 06:37 AM
The Marlins want quanity Prospects, not nessacerily "The Gems".

Translation: "You can have our collection of misfits that we no longer want for one of your star players."

The Marlins apaarently asked the Mets for David Wright. I would consider him a GEM.

westofyou
05-14-2006, 10:27 AM
Speaking of which, what pitcher did Bowden send to the Giants that SF GM Brian Sabean claimed was damaged goods and Bowden never mentioned anything that he was possibly injured. Since that deal, Sabean swore he would never deal with Bowden again. I'm just wondering who that pitcher was?
This sounds like the Brantley deal, not a Gianst deal. Jocketty said that about Bowden. sabean has been the GM since 1997 and the last trade the Reds made with the Giants was the Portugal/Sanders trade in 95 (the pitchers going west were John Roper, Scott Service and Rickey Pickett)

buckeyenut
05-15-2006, 05:49 AM
Once Cabreras contract runs out he will be asking for a big salary increase.Some guys, you worry about how much they get paid. Some guys, you just pay the price, glad to have them on your team. Cabrera is one of the later. Cabrera is between Dunn and Pujols on the scale of young hitters, I believe closer to Pujols.

Obviously, management has to be in the boat on the $$ increase, but Cabrera is one of those guys you grab when available and worry about figuring out the $$ later if you have to. He is that good.

kyle1976
05-15-2006, 10:23 AM
Dunn and Claussen for Cabrera and Willis??? Anyone?

Patrick Bateman
05-15-2006, 11:26 AM
Dunn and Claussen for Cabrera and Willis??? Anyone?

Why would the Marlins do that?

They are thrying to get younger and cheaper. Trading for a 13M player anit going to accomplish that.

The guys the Marlins would want from us would include: Bailey, EE, Bruce, Wood, Votto, Coffey, Ramirez, etc.

kyle1976
05-15-2006, 12:58 PM
I know, it was a joke....wishful thinking.

Highlifeman21
05-15-2006, 06:13 PM
Just modifying those Willis and Cabrera trade rumors:

Reds deal LHP Brandon Claussen, RHP Homer Bailey, 3rd baseman Edwin Encarncion and OF Chris Denorifa to Florida for LHP Dontrelle Willis and 3rd baseman Miguel Cabrera.

Now if you're both teams, would you do the deal?

For the Reds you have a big three in the starting rotation of Harang, Arroyo and Willis to go with Milton and either Ramirez or Williams. It sends a message to the fans that the Reds are interested in winning now and the immediate future with the acquistions of Willis and Cabrera.

Even though you lose Encarncion, Cabrera's bat provides righthand pop to go with Austin Kearns in the middle of the lineup.

The Marlins get younger and cheaper while accumulating more young talent to rebuild.

So again, do you pull the trigger?

Not that it helps the total spectrum of our team, but I would much rather get Cabrera than Willis.

We could move Cabrera back to LF where he's played some before 3B, and Dunn to 1B and leave Griffey in CF (since he'll only leave there if he's on the DL). This does absolutely nothing for our pitching woes, but does enhance the offense to the point where we'd have to get back to putting up 1000+ runs a year just to have a fighting chance to sniff the playoffs.

I'm on record for wanting nothing to do with Dontrelle Willis. In the month of May, his era is just under 13! Not to mention he's at least 0-3. I think the NL has figured him out, and he won't change those mechanics, so to overstate the situation, he's become nothing more than a novelty. His perceived value is way too high to attempt to get him, so wait until he continues to struggle and watch the price drop, then maybe take a chance on him.

To get back on point, if Cabrera costs us Edwin, then I want nothing to do with that trade.

As for trading Homer Bailey, I'm all for that, since I have a bad feeling he won't pan out.