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saboforthird
05-13-2006, 11:36 PM
My gut feeling was that when Junior came off the DL this offense would come to a screaching halt. It certainly appears that has happened. This offense was supposed to be all-worldly. The pitching was supposed to be dismal, both starters and relief. The starting pitching hasn't been all that bad lately, but the offense has stunk it up. Before anyone suggests that it's just a cyclical thing, or that the offense was never really that good anyway, let me just state that the offense that took the field before Junior arrived back on the scene was a "team" offense. They played small ball. Now we're beginning to see the drawbacks of filling the lineup with slow sluggers. In my opinion, the Reds NEED to get rid of Junior. Get some bullpen help, maybe land a #3-4 starter. Get a spring chicken of a decent outfielder. :beerme:

RedsMan3203
05-13-2006, 11:38 PM
He has played in 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give the Reds a break man... Its only 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Count them.. 1, 2. 2 games!

redsfan30
05-13-2006, 11:50 PM
This offense was in a slump way before Junior was back in the fold.

Way before.

TeamBoone
05-14-2006, 12:06 AM
He has played in 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give the Reds a break man... Its only 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Count them.. 1, 2. 2 games!

Yeah, and they won one of them.

KronoRed
05-14-2006, 12:07 AM
Good pitching will always shut down good hitting

Joseph
05-14-2006, 12:11 AM
This offense was in a slump way before Junior was back in the fold.

Way before.

Amen. And I had no doubt Junior would get blamed for it, though its not his fault, per se.

Redmachine2003
05-14-2006, 12:14 AM
Jr didn't even start this game and he gets blamed.

KYRedsFan
05-14-2006, 12:17 AM
Hilarious, I needed a good laugh, and this thread came through.

BoCcc2832
05-14-2006, 12:43 AM
I know why your rep points only come to 21. It's because you don't know what you're talking about. Griffey can play the small ball much better than an Adam Dunn, but I don't hear you calling him out. Plus Dunn can get you more. It's not Junior's fault, so don't start it.

Unassisted
05-14-2006, 01:39 AM
Two games do not a season make. Chicken Little had a problem with sample size, too.

Gainesville Red
05-14-2006, 01:47 AM
Ridiculous.

JohhnyBench1001
05-14-2006, 01:56 AM
I guess we've been slumping badly actually since the end of April, because it was rumored that Jr was coming back....:rolleyes: We would be on a 3 game losing streak if he hadn't hit the walkoff jack, and he came inches away from hitting one out today. Junior isn't the problem at all.

saboforthird
05-14-2006, 02:14 AM
Amen. And I had no doubt Junior would get blamed for it, though its not his fault, per se.

I guess it's easy to dismiss faulty offense when you're winning. :D The thing that bothers me in this thread (silly posts by posters harping on my 'reputation' notwithstanding) is that I am NOT blaming Junior. I am blaming the team for seemingly coming to a standstill when Junior makes the lineup. This has happened a lot, if my memory serves me correct (obviously not this year). I don't have numbers to back me up, but there have been A LOT of games where Junior WAS the offense, and running games ceased to exist. And, players took pitch after pitch after pitch (lots of them being strikes) when they KNEW they were facing a great pitcher. Usually great pitchers don't miss the strike zone often. :D

spaethc
05-14-2006, 03:15 AM
you say that you are not blaming junior, yet the two most recent topics I have seen from you are anti-junior topics. It is also idiotic to blame Jr for lack of offense after a game that he didnt even play in except for the pinch hit appearance in the 9th inning. You talk about the running game ceasing to exist when Griffey is in the lineup, I guess you ignored the 5 stolen bases in Thursdays game.

Jr's Boy
05-14-2006, 03:31 AM
I can't figure him out either,one minute its ''trade Jr.'',the next ''i'm not blaming jr''.Make up your mind man.

captainmorgan07
05-14-2006, 12:22 PM
the offense was screaching to a hault before junior came off the dl so don't go blaming junior he won us a game with his offense

saboforthird
05-14-2006, 10:08 PM
Let me say it again, SLOWLY. I am NOT blaming Junior, I AM blaming the offense for becoming stagnant when Junior makes an appearance. This has been happening ever since Junior became a Red, and I know fans were saying the same thing about him over in Seattle. Notice what happened when he was gone? Again, it is NOT his fault that the offense becomes stagnant, it's a by-product of how he can turn games around. Continue giving me negative reputation points, as I know some of you (or at least one of you) are doing. I stand by my observation. :beerme:

reds44
05-14-2006, 10:13 PM
This offense was in a slump way before Junior was back in the fold.

Way before.
Yep.

It has nothing to do with Junior.

griffeyfreak4
05-14-2006, 10:14 PM
:laugh: If anything, Junior will HELP this team out of its slump :laugh:

TeamBoone
05-15-2006, 12:28 AM
Ok, this is really kind of ridiculous.

The other players on this team are NOT stupid. I'm sure every one of them realizes that one guy can not carry the entire team. For Pete's sake, don't you think they're smart enough to know that, or do you think they're just a bunch of dumb jocks?

In addition, this team is enjoying its success. You read it in the paper and you see it in how hard they play. They may make some mistakes and they are slumping a bit, but I hardly think they are purposely tanking just because Jr. is back.

Plus they're proud (most athletes are). Baseball is a game of statistics, team records, and personal records. I'm certain they aren't willing to jeopardize their own career performances and/or records by not trying as hard because Jr. is now in the lineup.

IMHO, this observation isn't viable... not before, not now.

paintmered
05-15-2006, 12:41 AM
He has played in 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!

Give the Reds a break man... Its only 2 games!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Count them.. 1, 2. 2 games!

Easy there, killer. Take a deep breath if necessary.

remdog
05-15-2006, 12:46 AM
:thumbup: TB.

Rem

saboforthird
05-15-2006, 11:58 AM
Ok, this is really kind of ridiculous.

The other players on this team are NOT stupid. I'm sure every one of them realizes that one guy can not carry the entire team. For Pete's sake, don't you think they're smart enough to know that, or do you think they're just a bunch of dumb jocks?

In addition, this team is enjoying its success. You read it in the paper and you see it in how hard they play. They may make some mistakes and they are slumping a bit, but I hardly think they are purposely tanking just because Jr. is back.

Plus they're proud (most athletes are). Baseball is a game of statistics, team records, and personal records. I'm certain they aren't willing to jeopardize their own career performances and/or records by not trying as hard because Jr. is now in the lineup.

IMHO, this observation isn't viable... not before, not now.

I remember years ago fans (and Marty and analysts) were saying that teams do not perform well with Junior in the lineup, not because of anything that he is doing wrong but because of the "Junior can carry a team" factor. It's not something that I think can be proven with statistics, but after seeing it in action for awhile it becomes obvious. Also, a lineup of sluggers (where none of the sluggers are very good hitters) isn't going to bode well for "small ball". We'll just wait and see, won't we? ;)

westofyou
05-15-2006, 12:01 PM
It's not something that I think can be proven with statistics, but after seeing it in action for awhile it becomes obvious.

How?

I've been watching the games for the past 7 years and I have no idea what you think is obvious.

Here's an obvious fact.

In the 21st century the Reds have had their worst pitching EVER.

Both the stats and watching can prove that.

So what's more likely? That the Reds suck because they have had no pitching? Or that they suck when Griffey is playing on the field?

redsfan30
05-15-2006, 12:08 PM
Game two of this season.....

Ryan Freel steals three bases and scores three runs.

Ken Griffey, Jr. hits third in the order, and hits a solo homerun.

Reds win 8-6.

__________________________________________________ ___________

Last Thursday....

Brandon Phillips steals three bases, McCraken one and Lopez one.

Ken Griffey, Jr. hits third in the order and hits a game winning homerun.

Reds win 5-4.

__________________________________________________ ____________


So this team has obviously sat back and waited on him to hit a homerun this season....

BenHayes
05-15-2006, 01:56 PM
The Reds are averaging a little under four runs a game over the last two weeks and were beginning to slump before that, is that Griffey's fault? It's awful hard to drive in runs from the DL. If you want to get technical you can look at just about any player not named Kearns or Encarnacion if you want to place blame on someone.

dabvu2498
05-15-2006, 02:34 PM
The Reds are averaging a little under four runs a game over the last two weeks and were beginning to slump before that, is that Griffey's fault? It's awful hard to drive in runs from the DL. If you want to get technical you can look at just about any player not named Kearns or Encarnacion if you want to place blame on someone.

Agreed. Plus, the fact of the matter is, Freel, Aurillia, and Phillips were all hot at the same time. I think that may have given all of us some false hope.

smith288
05-15-2006, 03:48 PM
I blame the Hurricane Katrina on Griffey.

I blame the depression on Griffey.

I blame Darfur on Griffey.

flyer85
05-15-2006, 03:55 PM
I guess Jr coming off the DL is bad timing

pedro
05-15-2006, 03:58 PM
I'd like to teach the Reds to play
Without Ken Griffey
I'd like to blame him for the woes
Of all their bad pitching
(That's the song I hear)
I'd like to see the team for once
(Let the world sing today)
being coached from the stands
And hear them echo through the hills
For blame throughout the land
That's the song I hear
(That's the song I hear)
Let the world sing today
(Let the whole wide world keep singing)
A song of blame that echoes on
And never goes away

westofyou
05-15-2006, 04:01 PM
Say a word for Junior Griffey
He ain't done nothing at all
Not given shirt right off his back
He ain't done nothing at all
And say a word for Kenny now
Walks with his head down to the ground
They took the shoes right off his feet
And threw the poor boy right out in the street

And this is what he said
Oh sweet nuthin'
He ain't done nothing at all
Oh sweet nutin'
He ain't done nothing at all

RedFanAlways1966
05-15-2006, 04:18 PM
My gut feeling was that when Junior came off the DL this offense would come to a screaching halt. It certainly appears that has happened.

I've got the solution.. YOU should start another anti-Junior thread before the end of a game.

Remember what happened the last time YOU did that? Yep... he hit a game-winning 3-run HR. I think he did that about 20-minutes after YOU did that.

Just want to make sure YOU and the others here did not forget when YOU did that. Do it again... YOU smart-one, YOU.

:laugh:

RedFanAlways1966
05-15-2006, 04:20 PM
I guess Jr coming off the DL is bad timing

Ask Freel.... seems to coincide with him not being able to hit the broadside of a barn.

:confused:

saboforthird
05-15-2006, 05:33 PM
I've got the solution.. YOU should start another anti-Junior thread before the end of a game.

Remember what happened the last time YOU did that? Yep... he hit a game-winning 3-run HR. I think he did that about 20-minutes after YOU did that.

Just want to make sure YOU and the others here did not forget when YOU did that. Do it again... YOU smart-one, YOU.

:laugh:

Why the personal attack? :evil:

RedFanAlways1966
05-15-2006, 05:55 PM
Why the personal attack? :evil:

Ah, nothin' personal. I thought it was funny. And when you have the backbone to come back to it (esp. after that thread the other night), I have to laugh and remind anyone who missed that (and those who saw it) of your reverse luck. I say, "Keep it up!" And remind me to never take you to Vegas with me... :devil:

James B.
05-15-2006, 06:16 PM
I don't see how you can talk about Junior after he bailed the reds out the other night. He has been hitting the ball pretty well since he came back. I just don't think that players are going to lay down and quit hitting because Junior is back.

max venable
05-16-2006, 01:10 PM
Reds record with Junior on the DL: 17-9

Reds record when Junior has played: 6-6

Just sayin' :dunno:

pedro
05-16-2006, 01:40 PM
Reds record with Junior on the DL: 17-9

Reds record when Junior has played: 6-6

Just sayin' :dunno:


There wasn't a war when Herbert Hooover was President but he still wasn't as a good a President as Lincoln.

MaineRed
05-16-2006, 01:53 PM
Pinching myself didn't work so I had to post in this thread to make sure it really exsist.

saboforthird
05-16-2006, 01:53 PM
Reds record with Junior on the DL: 17-9

Reds record when Junior has played: 6-6

Just sayin' :dunno:

Not asking you to support my theory, but I appreciate the evidence. :thumbup: I'm very interested in what the team's record has been since Junior ever came on the scene AND played in games.

RedFanAlways1966
05-16-2006, 02:03 PM
Not asking you to support my theory, but I appreciate the evidence. :thumbup: I'm very interested in what the team's record has been since Junior ever came on the scene AND played in games.

If this is what you call "evidence", then God help me if you are the DA or Judge during my trial! Good lord... :laugh:

Should we compare the Griffey years with the Big Red Machine too and blame Junior if "his REDS" do not have as good of a record as the BRM? How about the Junior-REDS in his best year vs. the 1st pro team in Cincy? Team record vs. team record. That would be strong evidence!

Those vibes that Junior gives off to his teammates are a strange thing. Those vibes cause a good hitting team to not hit. It also causes sucky pitching to get better... I know, Junior should pitch!!! The "evidence" is there. The pitching has gotten better with Junior back. I am starting to "get it".

:beerme: