View Full Version : Do you like Williams any better?

05-14-2006, 02:15 AM
He's pitched much better as of late--is he acceptable as the Reds #5?

05-14-2006, 02:32 AM

Let's jsut say that tonight was the Dave Williams I remembered from last year with the Pirates. Take that any way you want.

When Williams is on, he's a more than adequate 5th starter. The big question is what is going to happen when Milton comes back? Harang and Branson are givens, but after that you have Claussen, Williams, and the Lizard. Clearly, the Lizard has pitched better than either Claussen or Williams, so what do you do? Lucky me. I don't have to make the choice, but it's a situation that is pretty nice to be in.

Claussen has never shown consistency. And you know Milton's story (sorry, couldn't reisist). My best guess is that Williams will continue to put up good numbers and the Lizard will be sent back leaving us with Milton.

Excuse me while I :barf:

05-14-2006, 02:32 AM
Still a soft tossing lefty, I'd keep him in the rotation if Claussen keeps stinking it up, Milton is paid to much and the Lizard has been at least effective to boot them.

05-14-2006, 02:43 AM
He's amazing to watch. I don't know how he get's anybody out with his "stuff". I have two breaking balls that I can throw that are better than what he throws,and at real close to the same speeds. Seriously. Although I can't get it into the 80's like he does.

I was fascinated watching him get the Phillies out. They had to be totally frustrated.

05-14-2006, 03:59 AM
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut from time to time.

05-14-2006, 05:29 AM
If his slow sweeping curve isn't working for him - and it hasn't consistently this year so far - then he is fresh meat for the opposition.

His last start he got credit for the win (which I laughed at, seeing his performance). Last night he got a tough luck loss.

It all evens out. ;)

If you like Claussen, then you'll love Williams, because consistency is their biggest problem.

My hope, when he came here, was that he could possibly be a serviceable #5.

I'm not yet convinced yet. ;)

05-14-2006, 08:01 AM
I didn't hear much of the game. We went out to take pictures of my son and his girlfriend going to her prom, then went to dinner, stopped to get a movie, etc.. I picked up bits and pieces and I liked what I heard of Williams' performance. I still wonder about whether he's doing better with the extra rest. If so, I wonder if he would be better moving to the pen when Milton comes back and being the long relief swing starter.

05-14-2006, 08:19 AM
Pitchers like Williams always cause problems "fitting" into the rotation, and indecision by a manager, when they give you a start like last night.

His starts prior to yesterday were not anything close to quality starts.

Then he goes out and throws a gem like last night, which then gets people wondering maybe, is there a possibility?

If I were a gambling man (and I'm not), I'd say no.

He's being given the opportunity due to Milton being out, which is fine. And once Milty is back, the Lizard will be sent back down.

But if Williams continues to show the inconsistency that he has, I'd keep the Lizard on speed dial. The only other option we have is Berlisle.

05-14-2006, 09:02 AM
I think Dave Williams could surprise us. If he can keep the ball down and tighten the rotation on his curve, he could be the same guy who had the best road ERA last year. He knows how to pitch, he just has to be mechanically perfect. He may have suffered early on from new coaching.

Sometimes it's hard to watch a guy throw like he does and believe he could ever get big leaguers out. Jamie Moyer bounced around as several teams' fifth starter until he reached Seattle.

With Claussen, I think the Reds should package him soon for an experienced starter. I really don't think his style is conducive to GAB. Usually, teams trading away decent pitching expect to receive some promising pitching in return. Claussen is young, cheap, and promising. I'm just afraid he will give up a boatload of homers this year, lose confidence, and be lost to mankind forever. So I'd package him right now before his stats get too ugly and his confidence gets dashed.

05-14-2006, 11:20 AM
dave might have just foundf something last nite he was by far pittsburgh's best starter last year at times not that says much but he can get it done if he can just put some more heat on thta fastball and keep it in the park he'll be fine

05-14-2006, 11:29 AM
I think the real key yesterday was that he was facing a lineup that was probably a better fit vs. a RH pitcher. He benefited greatly from Abreu not being in the lineup and from turning Rollins around. Burrell tends to be inconsistent from time to time which was his only real threat from the right side. Plus it was very cool down at the park, so balls were not flying out. These things helped him plus he had "his pitch" working. However I will reserve my judgement until a later time as he at least showed he could get big league hitters out.

Marc D
05-14-2006, 12:11 PM
Not sure why the concensus is that the Lizard goes back down. He's clearly our 3rd best starter so far this year, he eats innings and gets ground balls.

To me, when Milton returns its time to think outside the box a little and see if Ramierez/Milton/Claussen/Williams can't help in the pen somehow.

05-14-2006, 01:54 PM
I agree Marc D, Ramirez, in his 4 starts has the second lowest ERA of all the starters. I doubt he will boot Milton from the rotation, but I dont know if I were the manager if I could send him and his 3.13 ERA down to keep Williams and his 6.32 ERA in the rotation.

05-14-2006, 03:45 PM
Milton won't get the boot, it'll be either Williams or Claussen, their next starts should decide it.

05-14-2006, 05:45 PM
If he can maintain, he'll be fine. But based on only one good performance, I'd say it's too early to judge.

What he did show us... he's capable.

05-14-2006, 07:15 PM
He's pitched much better as of late--is he acceptable as the Reds #5?he had command of a good curve ball last night. That was the first time he has had that pitch all season.

05-14-2006, 09:18 PM
I don't mind if either he or Claussen goes. I would rather keep Williams because I just think he has alittle better pure stuff then Claussen because of his curve.

Elizardo shouldn't be going anywhere though.

05-14-2006, 09:20 PM
Today's game by Claussen kinda throws a wrench into it all doesn't it?

Decisions, decisions :lol:

05-15-2006, 07:22 AM
I don't mind if either he or Claussen goes. I would rather keep Williams because I just think he has alittle better pure stuff then Claussen because of his curve.

:eek: Are you talking about Williams' curveball!?!?!?:eek:

05-15-2006, 07:59 AM
They're both throwing curves right now..... at us!

I say we have a cage match and may the best man win! ;)

05-15-2006, 12:11 PM
37 IP, 47H, 8 HR, 14 BB, 15 SO.

That's all I need to see. That these numbers include an 8 IP, 5 H, 5 SO, 0 BB performance is just further testament to his suckitude. Seriously, he makes Milton from last year look good.

05-15-2006, 03:53 PM
Seriously, he makes Milton from last year look good.
Whoa now..lets not get ahead of ourselves, Milton last year was HOF worthy :devil:

05-18-2006, 07:35 PM
Ok I now have had enough time, he stinks!

05-18-2006, 08:10 PM
REDS winning pct. as of today = .585
REDS winning pct., Williams starts = .625

REDS winning pct. in the month of May = .438
REDS winning pct. in May, Williams starts = .750


05-18-2006, 08:25 PM
Yeah, and the Reds scored 10 runs, the 9, in support of those two May wins.

But then they had too if they wanted to win. :evil:

05-18-2006, 09:10 PM
Boy, DanO really knew how to assemble a starting pitching staff, didn't he? No, I don't like Williams any better.

05-18-2006, 09:45 PM
Williams does not have a quality start: REDS are 4-1 (.800)
Williams has a quality start in the game: REDS are 1-2 (.333)

Maybe Dave understands this? Maybe we don't? :confused: :eek: :confused:


05-19-2006, 12:59 PM
he's flat awful.

just awful.

I loathe the Dave Williams trade.

05-21-2006, 07:49 PM
To quote Franz Ferdinand, "I love the sound of you walking away."

Good luck Dave, hope to see you pitching against us soon so we can beat you senseless.

05-21-2006, 09:07 PM
I worry about those 18 who wanted to keep him ;)

05-22-2006, 07:10 AM
I do like him better now--he's gone!!!!:thumbup: