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TeamBoone
05-14-2006, 08:45 PM
To stay in hunt, Reds must trade Griffey
Cincinnati doesn't need oft-injured outfielder — it needs pitching help
Al Behrman / AP

Ken Griffey Jr. came back in style Thursday night with a game-winning, three-run homer against the Nationals. But that just makes him more enticing for other teams, NBCSports.com contributor Mike Celizic writes.

What’s better for the Cincinnati Reds, keeping Ken Griffey Jr. and hoping he stays healthy enough to kick the team’s league-leading offense up yet another notch, or trading him for the pitching help the team will need if it wants to climb back into the playoffs?

I don’t know if Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky is thinking along those lines just yet, but he should be. And he should be leaning toward option B, the one in which he sees just what kind of pitching he can pry loose from which reckless GM in return for one of the greatest talents in the game.

Heck, what about the Yankees? They're in dire need of outfielders after Hideki Matsui suffered a broken wrist Thursday night.

A month ago, Griffey strained a tendon in his knee while running the bases. It wasn’t thought to be much, but, given his history of leg injuries, the team has been as cautious as a mouse in a snake farm in bringing him back.

Griffey finally returned Thursday to a lineup that is pumping out nearly 5 1/2 runs a game, the best in the National League, and to a first-place team that remains perhaps the most pleasant surprise in baseball. He fit in right away, belting a 3-run, game-winning homer in the 11th.

Cincinnati is Griffey’s home town, and he signed with the Reds at a considerable discount six years ago. At 36, he’s a certified first-ballot hall-of-famer, a slugger who will finish his career with 600-plus home runs, and, when he’s healthy, still one of the most feared hitters in the game.

And yet, Krivsky has to think about trading him.

The reason is straightforward enough. Although just 5-5 in their past 10, the Reds have gone 16-8 in Griffey’s absence and continue to occupy the top slot in the NL Central standings. They’ve won because they have one superior starting pitcher, a recycled closer who gets the job done and an embarrassment of offense, even with light-hitting second-baseman Ryan Freel taking Griffey’s place in center field. Freel’s replacement, Brandon Phillips, has good power and production, and the other two outfielders, Austin Kearns and Adam Dunn, are big-time power hitters.

With Griffey back in the lineup, the Reds will score even more. But, as the Yankees have shown repeatedly over the past five seasons, having the best offense in the game doesn’t translate into World Series wins. To win championships, you have to have pitching. That’s been the rule from the beginning of time.

The Reds are in first place thanks to the off-season acquisition of starter Bronson Arroyo, who went from mediocre in Boston to lights-out with the Reds, compiling an early-season 5-1 record with an ERA of 2.36, more than two runs lower than last year’s number in Boston.

If they want to stay there, they need another arm similar to Arroyo’s, not more offense. After Arroyo, the Reds pitching is mediocre at best; the team ERA was hovering around 4.50, which puts it solidly in the middle of National League staffs. Most important, the guys chasing the Reds, the Cardinals, have a team ERA nearly a full run lower.

Since the Cards have some significant offense of their own, it’s only a matter of time before the difference in pitching has its inevitable way with the standings and hoists St. Louis to the top of the NL Central.

The Reds are expecting to get starter Eric Milton back after having a knee scoped, but Milton never has been good enough to hold down anything but a spot in the back of the rotation, and there’s no reason to expect him to be a difference maker.

The Reds are fortunate that there’s still time before the trade frenzy begins in earnest. That time can be used to establish — and hope — that Griffey is reasonably healthy, which is to say as healthy as he was last season, and can provide some serious pennant insurance to a contender.

His contract, at $12.5 million a year and heavily back-loaded, has three more years on it. He’s also a five-and-ten player, so his approval will be needed before a trade can be made.

The catch is that no bottom-feeder will want to take on a contract that expensive, and contenders guard their front-line pitching like Dobermans protect junk yards. The Reds can get top prospects, but finding immediate help could be difficult.

The alternative is to keep Griffey, hope he prospers, then trade him in the off-season for that pitching help. In the American League, his health could benefit from DH’ing. In the National, there’s always someone willing to take a chance to get a bat like his.

Either way, the Reds should get something for a player who’s had one healthy season out of five and may not have another. They have a team that’s a contender, needing only better pitching to get back to the top.

Griffey could be the ticket to that pitching. It’s why Krivsky has to think about trading his most famous player, and trade him while other teams still think he has value.

Mike Celizic writes regularly for NBCSports.com and is a freelance writer based in New York.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12745975/

flyer85
05-14-2006, 08:47 PM
Guys an idiot cause Jr has little if any trade value. dealing him would simply be a salary dump if they could even find a partial taker.

The trading chips the Reds have are a catcher(likely Larue) and Freel.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 08:51 PM
Guys an idiot cause Jr has little if any trade value. dealing him would simply be a salary dump if they could even find a partial taker.

The trading chips the Reds have are a catcher(likely Larue) and Freel.

How you can't include Kearns in that list I have no idea. He's first and foremost on my trade list. The guy is gifting the Reds by not spitting the bit right out of the gate this season. Now it's time to show our appreciation for all the guy's hard work.

Oh, and the Reds have no business thinking about "staying in any hunts" this season. Time to solidify around Enc., Dunn, Harang, and Arroyo; everything else is up for sale.

flyer85
05-14-2006, 08:53 PM
How you can't include Kearns in that list I have no idea. because at the age of 25 it is entirely possible that it could be a new level of performance. We won't know but I really don't see a good trading partner for Kearns at the moment. In addition, if Jr goes down again you have a team woefully short of OFs.

BTW, the starters of the Phillies can nothing but sliders and curves of Phillips and obviously the scouting report out on Phillips is to feed him offspeed stuff.

Superdude
05-14-2006, 08:57 PM
Didn't Chicago offer Chris Young and Casey Regowski last year for Griffey or was that just a rumor? That would be enough value to make me deal Jr.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 08:58 PM
because at the age of 25 it is entirely possible that it could be a new level of performance. We won't know but I really don't see a good trading partner for Kearns at the moment. In addition, if Jr goes down again you have a team woefully short of OFs.

BTW, the starters of the Phillies can nothing but sliders and curves of Phillips and obviously the scouting report out on Phillips is to feed him offspeed stuff.

But we've had years to look at the stuff Kearns is made of, and it ain't much. If any other adversity presents itself to him, who knows how he'll handle it. Furthermore, the guy is going to be very expensive very soon. I don't even want to think about giving this guy an extension. So, he's got to go next season regardless. I'd prefer to strike now and get something of worth in return. I don't think a player has had a bigger "sell" sign over his head than Austin Kearns.

No sense in overpaying the guy for past production and future trips to the DL.

flyer85
05-14-2006, 09:02 PM
No sense in overpaying the guy for past production and future trips to the DL.He certainly is no differnt than Lopez or Phillips. Young guys coming in to their own in their mid 20's. I guess the Reds should sell on those two as well because they all have struggled mightily and looked to be turning around as they reach age 25. So if Kearns is on the block by that logic then the others should be as well.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:03 PM
He certainly is no differnt than Lopez or Phillips. Young guys coming in to their own in their mid 20's. I guess the Reds should sell on those two as well because they all have struggled mightily and looked to be turning around as they reach age 25. So if Kearns is on the block by that logic then the others should be as well.

My above post says as much: keep Arroyo, Dunn, Enc. and Harang--everything else is up for hock.

flyer85
05-14-2006, 09:07 PM
You can't turn over a team and build anything in the short term unless there is a lot of help in the minors and from where I see it there is little help at all and likely none in the short term. I don't think there is any chance of a tear down and long term rebuild happening

If Kearns or Lopez are to be dealt and the Reds hope to get value that is trade to be made in the offseason.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:08 PM
Kearns will be 26 in like 5 days, plus his OPS keeps dropping like January mercury. His glass OPS-ceiling of .850 or so for a right fielder should be reached by June 1; .850 OPS for a right fielder is unexceptional--he should be flipped ASAP.

StillFunkyB
05-14-2006, 09:09 PM
:rolleyes: at the writer, not TB :)

pedro
05-14-2006, 09:11 PM
Kearns will be 26 in like 5 days, plus his OPS keeps dropping like January mercury. His glass OPS-ceiling of .850 or so for a right fielder should be reached by June 1; .850 OPS for a right fielder is unexceptional--he should be flipped ASAP.


I have no problem with trading Kearns but get your facts stright FCB, Kearns' OPS in May is 1.029. It is not "dropping like January mercury".

You might have some more credibilty with your arguments if you didn't just make stuff up.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:12 PM
I have no problem with trading Kearns but get your facts stright FCB, Kearns' OPS in May is 1.029. It is not "dropping like January mercury".

You might have some more credibilty with your arguments if you didn't just make stuff up.

His slugging has been dropping steadily. Go check the game by game logs on MLB.com

flyer85
05-14-2006, 09:13 PM
Kearns will be 26 in like 5 days, plus his OPS keeps dropping like January mercury. His glass OPS-ceiling of .850 or so for a right fielder should be reached by June 1; .850 OPS for a right fielder is unexceptional--he should be flipped ASAP.trading him during the season is likely to bring little in return. If the Reds are not sold on Kearns every being worth much money I doubt anyone else is either and the Reds complete lack of OF depth at the major league level and in the minors is troubling.

pedro
05-14-2006, 09:14 PM
His slugging has been dropping steadily. Go check the game by game logs on MLB.com

you said OPS and I checked it, and you're wrong. get over it.

flyer85
05-14-2006, 09:14 PM
His slugging has been dropping steadily. Go check the game by game logs on MLB.comsame could be said of Dunn.

I do realize that FCB is our resident cynic.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:16 PM
you said OPS and I checked it, and you're wrong. get over it.

no, you're wrong. His May OPS is .918.

KronoRed
05-14-2006, 09:17 PM
Trade him for what? nothing that would help much, unless the Reds pay about 90% of the contract, so no salary relief.

pedro
05-14-2006, 09:17 PM
no, you're wrong. His May OPS is .918.

sorry, I'm not wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6851&type=batting&year=2006

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:18 PM
same could be said of Dunn.

I do realize that FCB is our resident cynic.

But come on: Dunn's proven time and time again to be great and bounce back.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:18 PM
sorry, I'm not wrong.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6851&type=batting&year=2006

One of the sites is wrong.

griffeyfreak4
05-14-2006, 09:19 PM
Keep Griffey and let him hit the crap out of the ball, we couldn't trade him unless he wanted it anyway.

pedro
05-14-2006, 09:21 PM
One of the sites is wrong.

yahoo has the same numbers. I don't know FCB.

edabbs44
05-14-2006, 09:22 PM
I could definitely handle getting rid of Griffey, if it was possible, if he accepted and if we got solid value for it. 3 big IFs. Seeing him go down time and time again just kills me.

westofyou
05-14-2006, 09:24 PM
Kearns will be 26 in like 5 days, plus his OPS keeps dropping like January mercury.

Date Opponent Score AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
May 13 PHI L 0-2 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .317 .381 .554 .935
May 12 PHI L 4-8 5 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 .324 .388 .566 .954
May 11 WAS W 5-4 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 .328 .395 .557 .952
May 10 WAS W 9-6 4 2 4 1 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 .339 .401 .575 .976
May 9 WAS L 1-7 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 .317 .380 .553 .932
May 7 @ ARI W 9-8 4 1 3 2 0 1 1 1 0 0 0 .328 .391 .571 .962
May 6 @ ARI L 1-3 3 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 .313 .375 .522 .897
May 5 @ ARI L 1-7 4 1 2 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .321 .379 .536 .915
May 4 @ COL W 7-1 4 2 2 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 .315 .375 .528 .903
May 3 @ COL L 0-3 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .308 .371 .529 .900
May 2 STL W 3-2 4 1 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .307 .372 .535 .906
May 1 STL W 6-1 4 1 2 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 .299 .367 .536 .903

Johnny Footstool
05-14-2006, 09:27 PM
Didn't Chicago offer Chris Young and Casey Regowski last year for Griffey or was that just a rumor? That would be enough value to make me deal Jr.

That was a bad deal. We're talking DanO bad. The Reds would have had to pay a huge chunk of Griffey's salary and wouldn't have acquired any pitching.

Highlifeman21
05-14-2006, 09:42 PM
How you can't include Kearns in that list I have no idea. He's first and foremost on my trade list. The guy is gifting the Reds by not spitting the bit right out of the gate this season. Now it's time to show our appreciation for all the guy's hard work.

Oh, and the Reds have no business thinking about "staying in any hunts" this season. Time to solidify around Enc., Dunn, Harang, and Arroyo; everything else is up for sale.


You must have been late getting to this post, FCB. 2nd reply, and you already threw Kearns under the bus. Time to show our appreciation for the guy's hard work by trading him? Usually a more LOYAL reward would be a LTC. You live in Philly, you must have Kearns confused with Abreu. Let's railroad one of our best players out of town... I have my shrine of hating Felipe Lopez, and you have your shrine to all things Austin Kearns.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 09:46 PM
I'm not sure why you dislike Lopez--he's either produced or tried to produce since he's been with the Reds. I'm not opposed to trading him, but I'd much prefer to have Lopez in my platoon than Kearns, all things being equal.

reds44
05-14-2006, 09:57 PM
Chi Sox need a CFer desperately, and they have a speedy CFer in the minors ready to come up. When the Reds don't have a leadoff hitter the offense struggles (look at offense when Freel was hot, and look at it now).

I would pay some of Griffey's salary to get that speedy CFer (somebody tell me his name) and a solid pitching prospect.

If you want to realistically deal Junior, you have to eat some of his salary.

flyer85
05-14-2006, 09:59 PM
But come on: Dunn's proven time and time again to be great and bounce back.but there was a first time and a lot of people were skeptical after the 2003 season

cincinnati chili
05-14-2006, 10:02 PM
He’s also a five-and-ten player, so his approval will be needed before a trade can be made. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12745975/

And the media just assume's he'll consent. My bet for a long time is that he would consent to few (if any) teams without significant compensation. And if the Reds are in contention, it'll be even tougher to get his consent.

GAC
05-14-2006, 10:02 PM
"To stay in the hunt, Reds MUST trade Griffey"

Easier said then done when the CFer has veto rights, and a very short list of teams he'd even consider. ;)

If they could trade him to someone, such as the Yanks, who are in dire need and the monies invested on the risk wouldn't hurt them, then go for it.

But it ain't gonna happen because I don't think Jr wants anything to do with them. His relationship with King George would be volatile as his health. It will never happen.

And No, I wouldn't trade Ears while still retaining Jr (if that is what is being suggested).

You trade high, and we would need a good solid year of consistent production from Ears to get that.

pedro
05-14-2006, 10:18 PM
Chi Sox need a CFer desperately, and they have a speedy CFer in the minors ready to come up. When the Reds don't have a leadoff hitter the offense struggles (look at offense when Freel was hot, and look at it now).

I would pay some of Griffey's salary to get that speedy CFer (somebody tell me his name) and a solid pitching prospect.

If you want to realistically deal Junior, you have to eat some of his salary.


No one is going to trade for Griffey with the idea of him playing CF IMO, especially not the White Sox who value defense a great deal. Last year the trade would have worked for them b/c they could have put KG at DH, but now they have Thome, so that ship has sailed IMO.

reds44
05-14-2006, 10:19 PM
No one is going to trade for Griffey with the idea of him playing CF IMO, especially not the White Sox who value defense a great deal. Last year the trade would have worked for them b/c they could have put KG at DH, but now they have Thome, so that ship has sailed IMO.
They could put Podsednik back in CF.

flyer85
05-14-2006, 10:20 PM
They could put Podsednik back in CF.Chris Young isn't there anymore either

pedro
05-14-2006, 10:26 PM
They could put Podsednik back in CF.

True, but just to be sure you're saying that KG could possibly play LF? b/c IIRC you've shot that one down pretty frequently when it's been discussed around here.

pedro
05-14-2006, 10:29 PM
FWIW, I think KG might accept a trade to the White Sox, even if it meant him playing LF.

I'd forgotten that the WS were playing that scrub Podsednik in LF.

reds44
05-14-2006, 10:31 PM
True, but just to be sure you're saying that KG could possibly play LF? b/c IIRC you've shot that one down pretty frequently when it's been discussed around here.
I think Griffey would be a fantastic LFer. When he gets to it he catches it, but his problem is range.

I don't think Griffey wants to move to left field, but to go to the White Sox he might. That would ovbiously be something that has to be dealt with before a trade.

I don't think Narron has the guts to tell Griffey to move to LF, but if Junior wants to go to the Sox they could tell him he has to do it or they won't trade for him.

redsrule2500
05-14-2006, 10:38 PM
Griffey isn't bad, but something about him must hurt the team. They suck when he comes back

toledodan
05-14-2006, 10:55 PM
Didn't Chicago offer Chris Young and Casey Regowski last year for Griffey or was that just a rumor? That would be enough value to make me deal Jr.


i work with a familly member of regowski(couisin or uncle) and yes that was thrown up last season. even if we dont trade griffey i would love for the reds to get him. he wants out of the chicago org. because he's blocked from going to the majors with thome and konerko blocking first. he has BIG TIME POWER and is a good first baseman. i'm not down on votto but a kid like this would be a good fit if we don't move dunn to first or won't wait on votto.

Falls City Beer
05-14-2006, 11:02 PM
Griffey isn't bad, but something about him must hurt the team. They suck when he comes back

Nonsense.

griffeyfreak4
05-14-2006, 11:07 PM
Griffey isn't bad, but something about him must hurt the team. They suck when he comes back
:lol: :laugh:

GOREDSGO32
05-14-2006, 11:32 PM
I like Griffey as a person and player, but the salary is just hurting the team overall right now .... I can only imagine if we get Wilson, Milton, and Griffey off the books how much leeway we would have to make some big time signings ...

TeamBoone
05-15-2006, 12:39 AM
I like Griffey as a person and player, but the salary is just hurting the team overall right now .... I can only imagine if we get Wilson, Milton, and Griffey off the books how much leeway we would have to make some big time signings ...

And just exactly who would they be? And who would you be willing to give up to get them? It takes more than just dollars.

KronoRed
05-15-2006, 12:43 AM
Agreed, we have to GET people to sign here first, who wants to at this point?

reds44
05-15-2006, 12:45 AM
Agreed, we have to GET people to sign here first, who wants to at this point?
Guys that nobody else want.

KronoRed
05-15-2006, 12:49 AM
Guys that nobody else want.
helloooo Rich White :D

GAC
05-15-2006, 09:05 AM
Griffey isn't bad, but something about him must hurt the team. They suck when he comes back

They were slumping long before he came off the DL late last week. ;)

GAC
05-15-2006, 09:09 AM
I like Griffey as a person and player, but the salary is just hurting the team overall right now .... I can only imagine if we get Wilson, Milton, and Griffey off the books how much leeway we would have to make some big time signings ...

But you're also talking about 3 players (both in performance and salaries) that makes it hard to deal them.

Wilson is finished as far as I'm concerned, and no one is gonna take on Jr and Milton's contracts until there performance shows otherwise.

Johnny Footstool
05-15-2006, 10:49 AM
i work with a familly member of regowski(couisin or uncle) and yes that was thrown up last season. even if we dont trade griffey i would love for the reds to get him. he wants out of the chicago org. because he's blocked from going to the majors with thome and konerko blocking first. he has BIG TIME POWER and is a good first baseman. i'm not down on votto but a kid like this would be a good fit if we don't move dunn to first or won't wait on votto.

Baseball Prospectus doesn't like Rogowski's outlook, and neither do I. He's 25 and putting up mediocre numbers in his first season of AAA ball. He's never really shown much power in the minors.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/ROGOWSKI19810501A.php

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/533016

registerthis
05-15-2006, 11:01 AM
Nonsense.

Nuh-uh. repeat something often enough and it simply becomes fact.

KoryMac5
05-15-2006, 11:55 AM
Griffey is not likely to be traded, he makes entirely too much gets hurt too often and is not a very good center fielder. Not many teams are going to want that at 36 years of age. I like Griffey and hope he would think about a shift in position so Dunn could go to first or Griffey would. Love to see what we have in Denofria. To me starting pitching is not the problem relief is what is costing us games. Make a deal so we can start shutting teams down in the late innings.

harangatang
05-15-2006, 04:14 PM
Agreed, we have to GET people to sign here first, who wants to at this point?
Exactly. Do you think Arroyo would be here if he had a choice?

registerthis
05-15-2006, 04:16 PM
To me starting pitching is not the problem relief is what is costing us games.

It seems like something out of Bizarro World, but I agree. The starting pitching isn't Cy Young caliber, but it's been darn good. But this offensive slump and, most importantly, crummy relief pitching, is costing us right now.

WMR
05-15-2006, 04:22 PM
helloooo Rich White :D

Is that the love child of Rich Aurilia and Rick White???

Someone get Conan O'Brien on the phone.

Krusty
05-15-2006, 04:38 PM
You don't rebuild this team around 36-year old hall of famers that are broken down more than they play.

With that said, I think the White Sox would be interested in Griffey with the idea of him playing LF and Podesnik shifting to CF. And if I'm the Reds, I would ask for RHP Freddie Garcia in return. The White Sox could easily replace Garcia with Brandon McCarthy in their rotation. Even if the Reds had to pay a portion of Griffey's contract, it would be small considering what Garcia makes. On top of that, you create a starting spot for Chris Denorfia who would upgrade the outfield defensively.

Griffey for Garcia? It is begging to happen. Improves both clubs. White Sox still have the pitching to go with a potent lineup while the Reds upgrade their rotation, outfield defense and overall speed in the lineup.

pedro
05-15-2006, 04:41 PM
I think I'd be pretty happy with that deal Krusty.

KronoRed
05-15-2006, 04:56 PM
Is that the love child of Rich Aurilia and Rick White???

Someone get Conan O'Brien on the phone.
My keyboard is still used to slamming Rich..it happens ;)

Wheelhouse
05-15-2006, 05:45 PM
NO WAY would Jr. approve a trade. Why would he if the Reds are in it? He might go if the Reds are out of the race. So the title of the article is ridiculous, because if the Reds are "in the hunt" Grif will want to be here for that.

pedro
05-15-2006, 05:50 PM
NO WAY would Jr. approve a trade. Why would he if the Reds are in it? He might go if the Reds are out of the race. So the title of the article is ridiculous, because if the Reds are "in the hunt" Grif will want to be here for that.


well, he could feel that the Reds don't have the pitching to actually make it to the playoffs. he wouldn't be the only one.

Highlifeman21
05-15-2006, 07:25 PM
I'm not sure why you dislike Lopez--he's either produced or tried to produce since he's been with the Reds. I'm not opposed to trading him, but I'd much prefer to have Lopez in my platoon than Kearns, all things being equal.


And that's fine that you wanna ship Kearns. I wanna ship Lopez b/c of his D or remind Brandon Phillips he came up in he Expos and Indians organizations as a SS, until Cleveland decided he was a 2B. I think Lopez's best position with the Reds is 2B. I also think Dunn's best positions with the Reds is 1B. While we're at it, I think Griffey's best position with the Reds is three fold: LF, DL, Traded.

Like I said, my dislike for Lopez is his lack of defensive ability, which is conversely why I have a small case of manlove for AK: defense.

I also think that teams would overvalue Lopez b/c of his production as a SS while not really paying attention that he has limited range. Kearns is an OF, and unfortunately, they are dime a dozen. Thankfully he produces for us, so get him hooked up to a loyal, local LTC and make him part of the future.

reds44
05-15-2006, 07:30 PM
And that's fine that you wanna ship Kearns. I wanna ship Lopez b/c of his D or remind Brandon Phillips he came up in he Expos and Indians organizations as a SS, until Cleveland decided he was a 2B. I think Lopez's best position with the Reds is 2B. I also think Dunn's best positions with the Reds is 1B. While we're at it, I think Griffey's best position with the Reds is three fold: LF, DL, Traded.

Like I said, my dislike for Lopez is his lack of defensive ability, which is conversely why I have a small case of manlove for AK: defense.

I also think that teams would overvalue Lopez b/c of his production as a SS while not really paying attention that he has limited range. Kearns is an OF, and unfortunately, they are dime a dozen. Thankfully he produces for us, so get him hooked up to a loyal, local LTC and make him part of the future.
BP is a career .210 hitter. (no I am not exagerating). Shipping Felipe off to start BP would be the most stupid move of all time, and I like BP alot.

I think it would be a good idea to flip Felipe and BP, but wanting to trade him in favor of BP is nuts.

I am willing to sacrifice some D for the best offensive SS in the NL, but that is just me.

IslandRed
05-15-2006, 07:49 PM
BP is a career .210 hitter. (no I am not exagerating). Shipping Felipe off to start BP would be the most stupid move of all time, and I like BP alot.

I think it would be a good idea to flip Felipe and BP, but wanting to trade him in favor of BP is nuts.

I am willing to sacrifice some D for the best offensive SS in the NL, but that is just me.

I don't generally disagree with you, but it's worth noting that going into last year, his age 25 season, Felipe Lopez had a major league BA of .234 -- we pause to insert the typical disclaimers about the worth of batting average -- in twice as many at-bats as Phillips had coming into this year.

In fact, Phillips and Lopez have eerily similar career tracks -- brought up too soon and too hyped and the big club lost patience when they didn't produce and/or didn't have a good attitude, bounced back and forth between Triple-A and the majors, didn't do much to regain their hot-prospect status, etc. (Lopez also had a broken ankle in there.) The difference is that Lopez finally had his bustout season last year, at age 25. This is Phillips' age-25 season. We'll see if he does the same. I don't think he has the offensive upside of Lopez but he has the talent and he seems to be trying to make the most out of the chance to resurrect his career.

Guacarock
05-15-2006, 07:57 PM
Griffey for Garcia? It is begging to happen. Improves both clubs. White Sox still have the pitching to go with a potent lineup while the Reds upgrade their rotation, outfield defense and overall speed in the lineup.

Can't see the White Sox dealing Garcia for Griffey. Garcia just racked up his sixth straight win, so he seems to be an integral part of their drive to reclaim a second straight pennant this season.

More likely, they would want to send us Jon Garland, who has a 6.75 ERA this season and 2-2 record to show for his $7 million salary.

Garland is an enigma. He did have a 3.50 ERA with an 18-10 record, three shutouts and 221 IP in 2005. And, he's only 26. So there's certainly a reasonable chance that he could be a dominant pitcher for us.

But he also just signed a three-year deal woth the Sox, boasting his salary to $10 million in '07 and $12 million in '08. So if he doesn't ever repeat his '05 peak, that's a mighty steep, risky contract to be carrying. Of course, the same can be said for Griffey's contract.

kyle1976
05-15-2006, 08:21 PM
And that's fine that you wanna ship Kearns. I wanna ship Lopez b/c of his D or remind Brandon Phillips he came up in he Expos and Indians organizations as a SS, until Cleveland decided he was a 2B. I think Lopez's best position with the Reds is 2B. I also think Dunn's best positions with the Reds is 1B. While we're at it, I think Griffey's best position with the Reds is three fold: LF, DL, Traded.

get him hooked up to a loyal, local LTC and make him part of the future.

Trading Lopez would be completely foolish. Not gonna happen. We're very fortunate to have him. Yes, he makes some foolish errors, but that should and hopefully will decrease. He's a very well-rounded player. I think he is the only offensive player on the that has a no-trade clause. He should be the cornerstone of the Reds for years to come. Phillips isn't a good enough hitter to replace him.

Switching positions is not a bad idea. Who knows if it would happen?

Trading Kearns would be idiotic. I can't imagine, even after a good start to the year, that his trade value is very high. Plus, like you've stated, he's great defensively which is a huge need for the Reds.

It hurts me to say this, but the Reds probably won't win with Griffey on the roster. Awesome hitter, but too fragile and maybe a bit of bad karma. It's strange how things change when he plays.