View Full Version : When Milton comes back, who goes?

Homer's Ghost
05-15-2006, 07:31 PM
It is a tight race. When Milton went down, Elizardo came up, but I honestly think he shouldn't even be in consideration for going down. He is young, and is pitching very well at the moment.

That leaves Williams and Claussen. I say Claussen goes. To me, Willimas has better 'stuff' because of his curve. However does Claussen have any options left? It could be Williams just because he has an option.

05-15-2006, 07:37 PM
I voted for Chris Hammond, and use Williams in the BP

05-15-2006, 07:42 PM
My vote goes to Hammond also. It just doesn't appear that he's going to help this club.


05-15-2006, 07:44 PM
Hammond, White, Williams.

05-15-2006, 07:50 PM
Hammonds, White, McCracken, Williams

05-15-2006, 07:58 PM
I second, third, fourth, fifth... the motion to remove Hammond.

Move Williams to the pen.

05-15-2006, 07:58 PM
Like it or not The Lizard will be sent down and that is where my vote is. Not because I think he deserves it, but because this is how things work. If Krivsky proves me wrong on this i'll be shocked. Granted he could possibly send down a position player, but not likely as then Ramirez would have to go to the pen. Which would likely harm his development and hurt our ability to make adjustments late in games especially with AL games coming up and the need of a DH.

Patrick Bateman
05-15-2006, 08:02 PM
I'd say White goes, Ramirez takes his place in the bullpen. His last game withstanding, Hammonds has pitched better lately, and his DERA is good.

Williams and Claussen have both pitched their best game recently, have more experience than Ramirez, and both seem less suited than Ramirez to relief.

Ramirez appears to have a rubber arm, and might become a Pedro Borbon type relief pitcher for us.

05-15-2006, 08:02 PM
white or hammond williams goes to the pen i think he can pitch middle relief but if claussen struggles dave goes to the rotation if he pitches like he did the other nite dave williams could be a mainstay for the season if he continues to pitch consistently good

05-15-2006, 08:04 PM
The Lizard

05-15-2006, 08:11 PM
I don't think they drop White or Hammond till after all star break. They will ride these bums out some more. I see Lizard getting sent down. Narron is going to stick with these vets longer than most of us want....

05-15-2006, 08:13 PM
They will have to make room for 3 guys (Milton, Aurilia & Cody Ross) once they are ready to come off the DL.

I would think that they would release a pitcher to make room for Milton (either Hamond or White). Then you can try putting either Claussen or Williams in the bullpen. Olmedo can be sent down the minors when Aurilia is ready to come off the DL. McCracken can be released when Cody Ross is done with his rehab assignment.

I wouldnt be surprised if they tried to deal one of the catchers and infielders for bullpen help.

05-15-2006, 08:14 PM
I'd like Hammond to leave (and never come back), but I think it's more likely that Williams or The Lizard will go. Hopefully Williams. Good start the other day or not, he's been atrocious all season.

05-15-2006, 08:16 PM
Sidenote: I completely agree with CTA513...

05-15-2006, 09:00 PM
out of the 3 performances over the weekend,liz's is better.
claussen and williams both faced a lineup much like the reds from a couple of yrs ago when you had dunn griff casey twalker. mostly lefthanded.
the only big stick to worry about rh was burrell.i really felt lizard would get hit pretty good but he did good job.
i think claussen and williams are so similar you could flip a coin.

Danny Serafini
05-15-2006, 09:36 PM
The Lizard will go because he's the low man on the totem pole, and that's just the way it is. Williams has an option so theoretically it could be him, but it's pretty unlikely they would keep the rookie and send down the veteran. Claussen is out of options so it positively won't be him.

05-15-2006, 10:18 PM
There is no way Clausen should be put out of the rotation. He cant be sent down bc of no options, and the reds have invested to much in this guy the last several years to mess him up with a move to the bullpen right now. He will get the chance to get back to the way he pitched when he was on top of his game last year.

Probably the only way Dave Williams stays is if O'brien was still making the calls since he wouldnt want to make his Casey trade look bad. Since Krivsky has no ties to Williams, he is the clear choice to be sent to the pen with either White or Hammond getting the boot.

There is always the chance that Lizard gets the shaft here because he is the new guy in the rotation as it stands now. But that would be a mistake given his last several starts (not just one good one in the case of Williams)

So to recap..... Not Clausen ...... Possibly Lizard...... More than likely its Williams (and rightfully so) getting moved out of the rotation.

Homer's Ghost
05-15-2006, 10:18 PM
Since Claussen is out of options I change my vote to Williams.

05-15-2006, 10:32 PM
Ramirez or Williams will go to the bullpen. Either White or Hammond will be designated for assignment. Outside possibility of Belisle going back to Louisville if White and Hammond stay on the roster.

05-15-2006, 10:40 PM
Did I miss something? I'm guessing that it likely will be Burns with Lizard or Williams moving to the bullpen.

05-15-2006, 10:48 PM
I don't necessarily agree with it, but they will send down Elizardo because he is the youngest and has an option unless they do want to try one of the starters in the pen, then the easy answer is to send Mike Burns back until Mercker comes back. I do think that the better question may be who goes down for Aurilia and Cody Ross. I think that a trade almost has to be in the works for both of these guys. It is easy to say Olmedo will go down for Aurilia, but Olmedo has done a good job. The question with Cody Ross is questionable. They seem to really like McCracken and he has basically been the 4th outfielder especially with Freel struggling. I really think that Krivsky is going to have to make a difficult decision on this one.

05-16-2006, 04:55 AM
Hammonds, White, McCracken, Williams

Take your pick.

Or Burns

05-16-2006, 05:25 AM
I agree with those who said "Other", although I'm not sure who. I think Williams moves to the pen as long relief guy/spot starter.

05-16-2006, 05:43 AM
Since Claussen is out of options I change my vote to Williams.

How does Claussen not have options? I'm not sure he does, but reading this explanation from ESPN, I'm not certain of that.


After three years as a pro, a player must be protected on a team's 40-man roster, or he is eligible for the Rule 5 draft (more on that later). Once he's served those three years, and assuming he is added to the 40-man roster, his club then has what are called "options" on him.

When a player is on the 40-man roster but not on the 25-man Major League roster, he is on "optional assignment." One common misconception about the rules is that a player may only be "optioned out" three times. Actually, each player has three option years, and he can be sent up and down as many times as the club chooses within those three seasons.

When you hear that a player is "out of options," that means he's been on the 40-man roster during three different seasons, beginning with his fourth as a pro, and to be sent down again he'll have to clear waivers (more on those below).

Interestingly, I remember seeing a list once and it seems to me that even Griffey still had options, but I won't swear to that and I can't find a list of who still has options now.

That said, I still think it will be someone else (probably Burns) with Williams moving to the pen.

05-16-2006, 07:11 AM
I DFA White. Move Belisle into his middle relief spot, and move Williams into the long relief / spot starter role.
Olmedo back down when Aurilia is back.
McCracken DFA when Cody Ross is back.
Hammond DFA when Mercker is back.

Bobcat J
05-16-2006, 08:34 AM
There are a number of guys in the pen that should go before Hammond. Hammond had an awful start, but since April 11 he has pitched well. Since that time, he has gone 9.2 innings, given up only two runs, struck out 10, and walked only 1. Even with his first three awful appearances his DIPS ERA is 4.33

Why would you get rid of someone who is actually pitching well, when you have the chance to ship out guys like White or Shackelford who aren't?

05-16-2006, 08:51 AM
Why Claussen? Despite the sub par outing against the Nats, he still has an ERA of around 3.50 in his last four starts. Take out the horrible outing against the Brewers in April and his season numbers are 2-3, 3.40.

Besides, if we're ever going to find out once and for all what this guy can do, it can't be while he's in AAA.

05-16-2006, 09:20 AM
Not surprisingly the poll here is going overwhelmingly against Dave Williams. I'm of the mind that his issue has been rest. I may be wrong, but I believe his two best starts came after an extra days rest. It is why I'm thinking we move him to the pen for that long relief/spot start position and have him pitch from there. I don't think you'll see the Reds eating any salary DFAing someone like White when they can just send Burns back down. They might, but I think we're all too ready to spend Bob C.'s money.

05-16-2006, 09:24 AM
I DFA White. Move Belisle into his middle relief spot, and move Williams into the long relief / spot starter role.
Olmedo back down when Aurilia is back.
McCracken DFA when Cody Ross is back.
Hammond DFA when Mercker is back.
I agree pretty much. But I'd put Ramirez in the long relief spot instead of Williams as long as Williams shows he's returning to '05 performance. If Williams starts to struggle again, I'd swap them. When Mercker's back it's a competition between Hammond, Burns and Belisle. But I'm hoping there's a trade brewing. Maybe Hammond and a catcher or Aurilia for a solid set up reliever? No names come to mind. Where's Wagner when we need him!!! I'm afraid we'll never see him again.