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Reds Fanatic
05-16-2006, 07:19 PM
This is from Marc's blog. Milton is going to start Saturday against the Tigers. Williams and Claussen are being moved up a day and it looks like Ramirez is out of the rotation.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/


PITTSBURGH -- After two innings of work Monday, Eric Milton has been deemed healthy enough to start, so he'll go Saturday against the Tigers.

"I’m sure he’d like to have had more, but he says he’s ready to go and ready to pitch and threw a lot in that simulated game the other day," said Jerry Narron. "We’ll try to get him out there and get him going as quick as we can."

In the meantime, Dave Williams and Brandon Claussen will each move up a day, so Williams gets the finale here Thursday and Claussen goes in the opener in Detroit on Friday.

Elizardo Ramirez will be available out of the bullpen the next few days, but chances are he'll be headed back to Louisville to keep starting when Milton is activated.

vaticanplum
05-16-2006, 07:21 PM
Anybody know who's due to pitch for the Tigers on Saturday?

Reds Fanatic
05-16-2006, 07:22 PM
Anybody know who's due to pitch for the Tigers on Saturday?They have not announced their starter for Saturday yet.

CTA513
05-16-2006, 07:33 PM
That makes sense... take someone out of the rotation thats pitching good.

:bang:

flyer85
05-16-2006, 07:33 PM
I saw earlier that it was Maroth and Robertson on the weekend.

We have a team full of rotten arms and a better one goes back to AAA. :dunno:

RedWilly
05-16-2006, 07:40 PM
If Milton only pitched 2 innings on Sunday does he really need 4 days rest before he can start? Especially when it means moving UP the two worst starters we've had this year. One wouldnt imagine that moving them UP would make them better, but indeed have the opposite effect. How about this idea instead.....if i concede the point that he DOES need 4 days rest. Why not let Lizard pitch thursday, Williams Friday, and then Milton saturday and push Clausen BACK a day and give him extra rest. Or go with Lizard Thursday Williams Friday, Clausen Saturday and Milton Sunday and give EVERYONE an extra days rest. Sure that pushes our best two back a game, but its not likely to cost them a start at the end of the year since we can reshuffle at the All Star Break anyway.
Maybe I just have a really big ego :D but i dont see why these options arent both better than what was posted on Marc's blog. Am I missing something?

reds44
05-16-2006, 07:43 PM
What the heck?

Stupid move. Take a guy with a 3 ERA out, but leave guys with ERAs in the 4s and 5s in.

Buckeye33
05-16-2006, 08:00 PM
I saw earlier that it was Maroth and Robertson on the weekend.

We have a team full of rotten arms and a better one goes back to AAA. :dunno:

Robertson pitches tonight so he should go on Sunday. Maroth pitched Sunday, so he will go on Friday. Saturdays game will probably be Verlander.

deltachi8
05-16-2006, 08:01 PM
ugh...of course i have tickets for saturdays game. i need to stop going to reds games....last year in cleveland I was treated to the pitching styles of one Luke Hudson.

GridironGrace
05-16-2006, 08:01 PM
This is Good news :)

Especiallly if it is the MILTON who pitched his first few outtings this season :)

flyer85
05-16-2006, 08:05 PM
Robertson pitches tonight so he should go on Sunday. Maroth pitched Sunday, so he will go on Friday. Saturdays game will probably be Verlander.I saw where with the off day it is Verlander on thursday followed by Bonderman, Maroth and Robertson for the Reds series.

kyle1976
05-16-2006, 08:05 PM
I don't agree with this decision. I'd like to see Ramirez and Williams pitch one more game each this week. They both pitched well last week. I want to know if Williams' game last week was a fluke or not. I think fluke, but you never know. And Milton only pitched 2 innings. Why not let him make one start in AAA before finalizing this? I think we're better off with Milton in the rotation, however, we've been pitching just fine the past few weeks without him.....what's the rush?

BoCcc2832
05-16-2006, 08:07 PM
This move doesn't surprise me because Ramirez is only 23 years old and he has plenty of options left.

reds44
05-16-2006, 08:08 PM
This move doesn't surprise me because Ramirez is only 23 years old and he has plenty of options left.
Who cares how old he is when his ERA is 1/2 of Williams' and Williams has options left?

flyer85
05-16-2006, 08:13 PM
This move doesn't surprise me because Ramirez is only 23 years old and he has plenty of options left.Thank God White or Hammonds don't have to be exposed to waivers.

Tommyjohn25
05-16-2006, 08:20 PM
Don't like it. Don't like it one bit. This is the first personnel decision that this FO/Narron has made that I disagree with.

reds44
05-16-2006, 08:36 PM
Here is a question

What if Williams is terrible his next start? Ramirez wouldn't have been sent down yet, so could Williams go down and Elizardo be put back in the rotation?

flyer85
05-16-2006, 08:38 PM
Here is a question

What if Williams is terrible his next start? Ramirez wouldn't have been sent down yet, so could Williams go down and Elizardo be put back in the rotation?maybe there just showcasing Williams for a trade to the Mets

BoCcc2832
05-16-2006, 08:40 PM
Why the Mets?

flyer85
05-16-2006, 08:41 PM
Why the Mets?2 words "Lima Time"

GAC
05-16-2006, 09:22 PM
This move doesn't surprise me because Ramirez is only 23 years old and he has plenty of options left.

Exactly.

Claussen and Williams have more major league experience, are basically, by their performances, "walking that line" as to whether they are serviceable starters or not. It's still up in the air.

How do you find out? You continue to run them out there until they either show so or fall off the fence.

A roster move HAS to be made due to Milton's return, and the Lizard is the obvious choice since he has options. Losing or dumping one of them may be an "option", but IMO, it's a stupid option when it can be avoided at this point.

If the Lizard is as good as some contend, and the other two as bad, then at some point one of them (if not both) will be gone and the Lizard returned.

It's nice to know though that we have that option in the wings for once.

reds44
05-16-2006, 09:23 PM
Exactly. And do the other two have options of being sent down? I don't know, but I'd garner to say they don't.

Claussen and Williams have more major league experience, are basically, by their performances, "walking that line" as to whether they are serviceable starters or not. It's still up in the air.

How do you find out? You continue to run them out there until they either show so or fall off the fence.

A roster move HAS to be made due to Milton's return, and the Lizard is the obvious choice since he has options and keeping him leaves you with no options with the other two. Losing or dumping one of them may be an "option", but IMO, it's a stupid option when it can be avoided at this point.

If the Lizard is as good as some contend, and the other two as bad, then at some point one of them (if not both) will be gone and the Lizard returned.

It's nice to know though that we have that option in the wings for once.
Williams has an option left.

flyer85
05-16-2006, 09:27 PM
Williams has an option left.Don't want facts to get in the way of a good point. :evil:

reds44
05-16-2006, 09:41 PM
Exactly.

Claussen and Williams have more major league experience, are basically, by their performances, "walking that line" as to whether they are serviceable starters or not. It's still up in the air.

How do you find out? You continue to run them out there until they either show so or fall off the fence.

A roster move HAS to be made due to Milton's return, and the Lizard is the obvious choice since he has options. Losing or dumping one of them may be an "option", but IMO, it's a stupid option when it can be avoided at this point.

If the Lizard is as good as some contend, and the other two as bad, then at some point one of them (if not both) will be gone and the Lizard returned.

It's nice to know though that we have that option in the wings for once.

So because "they are on the fence" with their career (basically meaning they have been pretty bad up to this point) they should stay up here over the 23 year old that has half the era Williams does (3.18 to be exact).

No sir.

GAC
05-16-2006, 09:52 PM
So because "they are on the fence" with their career (basically meaning they have been pretty bad up to this point) they should stay up here over the 23 year old that has half the era Williams does (3.18 to be exact).

No sir.

These other two pitchers are in their mid-20s, have more major league experience, and seeing their previous outings (which were pretty good), they deserve to be given more patience and a serious look-see.

Sending Williams down proves nothing to this organization. Having him up here will show us for sure.

The Lizard is not going anywhwere. He is still there if needed.

flyer85
05-16-2006, 09:54 PM
oops

reds44
05-16-2006, 09:54 PM
These other two pitchers are in their mid-20s, have more major league experience, and seeing their previous outings (which were pretty good), they deserve to be given more patience and a serious look-see.

Sending Williams down proves nothing to this organization. Having him up here will (does he or doesn't he?)

The Lizard is not going anywhwere. He is still there if needed.
Just trying to get this straight

you want to send your better and younger pitcher to AAA, and keep up your starting pitcher that has been bad this year (with the expection of 1 or 2 outings) just so you can 'see what he can do' even though he has an option left?

GAC
05-16-2006, 10:25 PM
Just trying to get this straight

you want to send your better and younger pitcher to AAA, and keep up your starting pitcher that has been bad this year (with the expection of 1 or 2 outings) just so you can 'see what he can do' even though he has an option left?

How many options does the Lizard have? That is the key here.

You have one option left on Williams, and you waste it, when you have even more on Lizard?

Younger? Yes. Better? That is yet to be proven.

You don't pronounce judgment on a pitcher who has only been up 3 weeks, and pitched a total of 23 innings. He was a huge bust last year.

I went down to the game last Friday and liked what I saw in the Lizard.... 6 innings and 2 ERs.

Alot of potential there.

I'm simply saying that Williams, who is being paid 1.4 Mil, and who gave us a solid start the other day, deserves a few more starts to see who the "real" Dave Williams is.

I'm no Williams fan by no means. Read some of my other posts on this forum concerning Williams. ;)

But I am not gonna discard the guy for his mediocre/inconsistent performance for the first month of the season.

He may prove to be a bust. Lets find out. It won't take that many starts to really find out.

And guess what? The Lizard is in the wings.

But I believe the decision was made because of his ML experience, and that he was a slightly below league average pitcher last year with a lousy Pirate team.

And that is no compliment to Williams.

Again - if the Lizard is as good as you say, then he will be back.

gilpdawg
05-16-2006, 10:27 PM
I'm guessing they don't wanna give up on Williams just yet, to save face, since they traded Casey for him. I'm thinking he has until the end of May, then he'll be out of there. I kind of figure, heck, give him a few more starts, maybe he can turn it around, is their thinking. He CAN'T be as bad as he's been so far. He wouldn't have been in the major leagues at all if he is. Not saying he's GOOD or anything, but he can't be THAT bad.

buckeyenut
05-16-2006, 10:41 PM
Ramirez is going to the pen for four days. If he pitches well out of there, maybe you have your replacement for Rick White or Chris Hammond that many of you have been screaming about.

KronoRed
05-16-2006, 11:12 PM
Williams has an option left.
Retire? :devil:

Hollcat
05-17-2006, 03:37 AM
How many options does the Lizard have? That is the key here.

You have one option left on Williams, and you waste it, when you have even more on Lizard?

Younger? Yes. Better? That is yet to be proven.

You don't pronounce judgment on a pitcher who has only been up 3 weeks, and pitched a total of 23 innings. He was a huge bust last year.

I went down to the game last Friday and liked what I saw in the Lizard.... 6 innings and 2 ERs.

Alot of potential there.

I'm simply saying that Williams, who is being paid 1.4 Mil, and who gave us a solid start the other day, deserves a few more starts to see who the "real" Dave Williams is.

I'm no Williams fan by no means. Read some of my other posts on this forum concerning Williams. ;)

But I am not gonna discard the guy for his mediocre/inconsistent performance for the first month of the season.

He may prove to be a bust. Lets find out. It won't take that many starts to really find out.

And guess what? The Lizard is in the wings.

But I believe the decision was made because of his ML experience, and that he was a slightly below league average pitcher last year with a lousy Pirate team.

And that is no compliment to Williams.

Again - if the Lizard is as good as you say, then he will be back.

An option is good for an entire season. A player having an option can be sent down and recalled all season long and only use one option. I assume since ramirez was in the minors and was called up that that constitutes using one of his options so sending him back down would not use up another option. I could be wrong and that the option isn't used until the player is sent from ML's to the minors.

RedWilly
05-17-2006, 07:59 AM
I'll ask this again i guess. Maybe it was invisible the first time :mooner:

Also, I dont buy the "the reds have invested in Williams" idea since that was the OLD regime...... Krivsky wont be saving HIS fave by keeping hims around for extra chances.

Why not let Lizard pitch thursday, Williams Friday, and then Milton saturday and push Clausen BACK a day and give him extra rest. Or go with Lizard Thursday Williams Friday, Clausen Saturday and Milton Sunday and give EVERYONE an extra days rest. Sure that pushes our best two back a game, but its not likely to cost them a start at the end of the year since we can reshuffle at the All Star Break anyway.
Maybe I just have a really big ego but i dont see why these options arent both better than what the reds are planning on doing. Am I missing something?

Ltlabner
05-17-2006, 07:53 PM
I'm torn on this one. Williams has been pretty horrible this year, and Lizzard pretty good....for the first month of the season. That's too short of a time to make concrete statments such as "trade this guy" or "fire that manager" (for example, purely hypothetical of course).

Lizzard looked good last year too...and then imploded. Williams has stunk but has he been given a fair chance? This way they give him a couple (note couple) of more chances (on a short leash) to get things going. If not, then they can move him. Also, it may give Lizzard a shot at pitching some long relief which we could use some of.

As GAC said, if Willaims continues to self destruct we have the Lizzard on hand whether he's 400' away in the bullpen or 80miles away in Louisville.

jimbo
05-17-2006, 08:24 PM
First post here guys, glad I found this site. Much the upgrade from where I've been.

My heart really feels that EZ is the better option over Williams, but having said that I understand why the Reds are sticking with Williams at this point. The experience factor is what's probably giving him the edge for now. I have to think though that he is on a short leash and if he resorts back to his old self and gets blasted in his next start or two, that EZ may not go anywhere or won't be gone for long.

reds44
05-17-2006, 08:26 PM
First post here guys, glad I found this site. Much the upgrade from where I've been.

My heart really feels that EZ is the better option over Williams, but having said that I understand why the Reds are sticking with Williams at this point. The experience factor is what's probably giving him the edge for now. I have to think though that he is on a short leash and if he resorts back to his old self and gets blasted in his next start or two, that EZ may not go anywhere or won't be gone for long.
Welcome.

:beerme:

Ltlabner
05-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Welcome aboard Jimbo! I hear you about this forum being a breath of fresh air. Isn't Wapakoneta a skip and a jump from Toledo?

Like I said, I'm sure they would keep Williams on a short leash.

Red Thunder
05-18-2006, 12:31 PM
Again - if the Lizard is as good as you say, then he will be back.

I thought it's about winning now - especially after the team had a good start - and not wasting time, watching if a crappy pitcher like Williams can turn it around sometime this season.

With Mercker on the DL, leave Ramirez in the rotation, move Williams to the bullpen and demote Burns or release White. This should be the obvious choice for a team looking to win.

RedRage
05-18-2006, 05:03 PM
Last option for Williams please! Send him packing.

reds44
05-18-2006, 05:30 PM
Last option for Williams please! Send him packing.
Yep.

Jr's Boy
05-18-2006, 05:50 PM
Anybody post a pic of a real lizard saying goodbye?:D

gilpdawg
05-19-2006, 12:12 AM
I'm guessing they don't wanna give up on Williams just yet, to save face, since they traded Casey for him. I'm thinking he has until the end of May, then he'll be out of there. I kind of figure, heck, give him a few more starts, maybe he can turn it around, is their thinking. He CAN'T be as bad as he's been so far. He wouldn't have been in the major leagues at all if he is. Not saying he's GOOD or anything, but he can't be THAT bad.
Ok, maybe he is THAT bad.:help:

KronoRed
05-19-2006, 12:14 AM
He requires 10 runs to get wins, he's bad. let the Lizard start till he implodes then think about Williams again.

griffeyfreak4
05-19-2006, 12:52 AM
These other two pitchers are in their mid-20s, have more major league experience, and seeing their previous outings (which were pretty good), they deserve to be given more patience and a serious look-see.

You could always keep EZ and get him some ML experience! What's better, a mid-to-late-20s pitcher with ML experience and crappy stuff with no potential left or a early-20s pitcher getting ML experience and with tons of potential? I'm going with the latter.