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UGADaddy
05-17-2006, 09:50 PM
The Reds have lost 6 out of 7, about to be 7 out of 8...they need a boost.

Out of the players on our roster that opposing GMs would actually have any interest in, I see Dunn as the easiest to let go of. He's not only "not good" in the field, he's a downright liability. LF, 1B, doesn't matter, you can't hide him.

Then at the plate, his supposed strength, I think it's against his personal beliefs to hit with runners on. He gets one hit every 15 ABs, and it's a solo shot in the eighth when we're down by seven.

What do you guys think we could get for him? Maybe an Aaron Cook-type, Louis Gonzalez, and maybe a PTBNL?? What do you think??

CTA513
05-17-2006, 09:56 PM
You probably wont get a quality arm for him unless you trade him later in the season.

UGADaddy
05-17-2006, 10:00 PM
Solid piece of hitting to end the game. Scratch Gonzalez and the PTBNL, insert a second-tier AA starter??

KronoRed
05-17-2006, 10:00 PM
Yeah Dunn is the worst player in history, we should just release him.

CTA513
05-17-2006, 10:02 PM
Yeah Dunn is the worst player in history, we should just release him.

:thumbup:

redsrule2500
05-17-2006, 10:02 PM
He's not that great, but fun when he hits the HR.

b_combs23
05-17-2006, 10:08 PM
I dont know the financial side of it but i agree that we should try and deal him if we can. His inability to hit with RISP is a cancer for this team. It has been this way his whole career in Cincinnati. You are dead on with the comment about hitting a homerun in a meaningless at bat too. Would like to hear more opinions on if we have a chance to move him. He has 13 homeruns and 26 RBIs.

2001MUgrad
05-17-2006, 10:13 PM
According to a lot on the board he is one of the top 3 players in baseball. So if by chance anyone that thinks like they do, we could get a lot. If you are dealing with a GM with common sense, not much.

kbrake
05-17-2006, 10:15 PM
I think some people here need to turn down the Marty B. I know it can be really tough to get through a 9 inning game with Grande and Welsch so I understand your problem. Dunn is struggling right now, but he is still walking which means he is getting on base and not getting out. This whole team is in a huge slump and I dont see how trading Dunn would really help.

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:18 PM
nothing that would fix the team and his offense would not be replaced. The time to make major trades is in the offseason not during the season.

dsmith421
05-17-2006, 10:22 PM
You trade Dunn right now, you get nothing even close to market value because every GM in the game knows you're flailing. It's about the dumbest thing Krivsky could do; fortunately, he's a lot smarter than the bash Dunn crowd that's infected this place recently.

There may come a time when Dunn needs to be traded. To do it now is madness, absolute madness.

CTA513
05-17-2006, 10:24 PM
You trade Dunn right now, you get nothing even close to market value because every GM in the game knows you're flailing. It's about the dumbest thing Krivsky could do; fortunately, he's a lot smarter than the bash Dunn crowd that's infected this place recently.

There may come a time when Dunn needs to be traded. To do it now is madness, absolute madness.

:beerme:

Falls City Beer
05-17-2006, 10:25 PM
The time to make major trades is in the offseason not during the season.

This is plain-old not true. Deals are always where you find them. Some times are slightly better than others, but if you're smart, deals are always for the making.

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:26 PM
Dunn needs to be traded I agree.

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:27 PM
nothing that would fix the team and his offense would not be replaced. The time to make major trades is in the offseason not during the season.
.220 with 26 rbi's is easier to replace then you might think.

indyred
05-17-2006, 10:28 PM
Dunn isn't going anywhere for the next 2 years........He has a decent contract and can help this team more than what they could get for him right now....

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:30 PM
This is plain-old not true. Deals are always where you find them. Some times are slightly better than others, but if you're smart, deals are always for the making.most teams are working on the edges of their team during the season and are not looking to remake their team. There is no way the Marlins could have done what they did in the off-season during the season. The market of potential partners just isn't as large during the season. Trades can be made in-season but they mainly involve dumping salary or unloading players who aren't coming back. Last year the trading deadline came and went with a whimper

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:31 PM
.220 with 26 rbi's is easier to replace then you might think.but 40 HRs 100 runs 100 RBIs and a 950 OPS are much harder to replace than you think

kbrake
05-17-2006, 10:33 PM
.220 with 26 rbi's is easier to replace then you might think.

Who cares that he has led this team in nearly every offensive category the past 3 years. He is hitting .220 threw 40 games, lets unload him now. Ok I am just getting cranky so I will stop soon I promise, but what in the hell would be the point of trading Adam Dunn right now? I agree the guy is struggling right now, but why would you trade him when he is struggling this makes no sense. I'm sure there is a great and I mean great market for Adam Dunn right now.

KronoRed
05-17-2006, 10:34 PM
but 40 HRs 100 runs 100 RBIs and a 950 OPS are much harder to replace than you think
No, we need more bunts instead of that OPS stuff ;)

snowstorm
05-17-2006, 10:35 PM
I'm certainly not opposed to trading Dunn, but if you're going to do it, wait until the offseason when you could get more value.

The whole team is in a huge slump, but Dunn just doesn't seem right this year. I don't know if he's just thinking too much at the plate or if someone (Narron possibly?) is giving him bad advice. It's a good thing that he's taking walks, because he's certainly not doing much else. The best thing that Narron could say to him at this point is: Forget what everyone's told you. Just do what makes you most comfortable.

As for his defense-- I won't go there. He's just not very good at either LF or 1B. Hopefully he'll improve over time.

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:35 PM
Ok I need to rephase what I was trying to say. Unless the Reds are competing at the deadline, it is time to trade Adam Dunn. It will be time to trade alot of people. We need to burn it to the ground. I was saying this before the year that is was time to burn it to the ground. Enough of trying to glue pieces together to "contend". Start over. Do whatever you can to get rid of the holes that are Milton and Griffey's contracts. Take on part of their salaries.

Then you have the guys that are going to bring in the "elite" prospects.
Dunn
Felipe

One of them needs to be traded. I am trading Dunn before I trade Lopez. You can't trade them both because then you have nothing.

Don't trade any of your top prospects and don't trade EE. Keep EE and Felipe to build around and go from there.

Here is how I would break it down:

Have to go:
Milton
Griffey
(I am not asking alot in return, just for them to take most of their salary

Then you have the mid-range guys that will bring in [retty good prospects:
LaRue (he will have value later)
Kearns
Weathers
Mercker (if healthy)

Top Elite guys (trade one)
Dunn
Felipe
(I trade Dunn)

Untouchables:
Coffey
EE
Any top prospects

Now ovbiously you aren't going to be able to trade all of those guys, but that is how I would look at it. The Marlins have won 2 world series is 16 years doing this.

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:36 PM
No, we need more bunts instead of that OPS stuff ;)"Bunting for Runs - The Making of a Champion"

dsmith421
05-17-2006, 10:36 PM
Dunn needs to be traded I agree.

No offense, but this is an absolutely moronic statement. You don't just decide one day to up and trade a player, especially when you have as few bona fide trading chips of value as the Reds do. You have to be shrewd and maximize value. If the Reds go out and shop Dunn right now, they are going to get rooked, plain and simple.* Trading your best players for crap is a good way to become the Kansas City Royals. I'd like to hold off on that result.

* What makes this even more hysterical, of course, is that the "blame Dunn" crowd would still complain because we didn't get a #1 starter in return. Either Dunn sucks or he's good, you can't have it both ways.

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:36 PM
Top Elite guys (trade one)
Dunn
Felipe
(I trade Dunn)
Felipe is as good as gone, it's only a matter of time

SteelSD
05-17-2006, 10:36 PM
.220 with 26 rbi's is easier to replace then you might think.

19 NL players have more than 26 RBI. Two NL players have scored more than 31 Runs. I suppose that's "replaceable" too.

And that's after one of the worst slumps imaginable for the most productive offensive player on the club.

The only thing "replaceable" is this thread. It's so replaceable, in fact, that one just like it will spring up next time the Reds lose a few games in a row. And when they don't lose. And between losing and winning. And in the offseason. During the All-Star break as well. And every first, second, and third week I haven't covered yet. Three times down the page. In fact, I don't think a day goes by when "Adam Dunn Sucks" isn't on page one of Reds Live.

Redundant. Replaceable. Rule 5.

kbrake
05-17-2006, 10:37 PM
So you trade Dunn, then Boras wants 12 mil a year for Lopez in two years? Now what do you do? (not trying to be a pain I swear, just curious what you do)

KronoRed
05-17-2006, 10:38 PM
So you trade Dunn, then Boras wants 12 mil a year for Lopez in two years? Now what do you do? (not trying to be a pain I swear, just curious what you do)
You become the Royals.

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:38 PM
So you trade Dunn, then Boras wants 12 mil a year for Lopez in two years? Now what do you do? (not trying to be a pain I swear, just curious what you do)
If Felipe keeps doing what he is doing you give it to him.

5 years, 60 mil.

kbrake
05-17-2006, 10:40 PM
You would wrap up 60 million in Felipe Lopez, but you trade Dunn at 9.5? wow.

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:40 PM
If Felipe keeps doing what he is doing you give it to him.

5 years, 60 mil.Boras has a history of taking his guys to free agency, period. Felipe won't be signing LT with the Reds

indyred
05-17-2006, 10:40 PM
Is Felipe a 12million dollar a year player?

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:42 PM
You would wrap up 60 million in Felipe Lopez, but you trade Dunn at 9.5? wow.
At 28 (which Felipe will be in 2 years) in his prime, a player that hits for average, decent power, and drives in a decent amount of runs, walks, and steals bases, yes without a doubt I do it.

Lopez drove in only 16 less runs then Dunn last year.

dsmith421
05-17-2006, 10:43 PM
Three times down the page. In fact, I don't think a day goes by when "Adam Dunn Sucks" isn't on page one of Reds Live.

The worst part is that the "Dunn sucks" arguments are always the same, and are never supported with any kind of tenable argument. It's Colbert's "Truthiness" at work--I see a guy who strikes out a lot, who doesn't "move the runner over", who looks ponderous and awkward in the field, and as a result believe he can't have any value. But the most reliable objective statistics say otherwise.

I've said it before: Dunn is the best homegrown player the Reds have produced since Barry Larkin. And the local media and fans are going to chase him out of town. It may actually be for the best, becuase there are organizations that might actually appreciate the skills he brings to the table.

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:44 PM
I didn't say Dunn sucks, but yes he should be traded.

KronoRed
05-17-2006, 10:44 PM
Boras has a history of taking his guys to free agency, period. Felipe won't be signing LT with the Reds
Yep, that's why players go to Boras, they want the huge payday, they get it on the market.

flyer85
05-17-2006, 10:45 PM
Yep, that's why players go to Boras, they want the huge payday, they get it on the market.exactly, when players go to Boras they know what they are signing up for.

kbrake
05-17-2006, 10:50 PM
At 28 (which Felipe will be in 2 years) in his prime, a player that hits for average, decent power, and drives in a decent amount of runs, walks, and steals bases, yes without a doubt I do it.

Lopez drove in only 16 less runs then Dunn last year.

Dunn will be 30, average is a stupid stat, hits for awsome power, drives in more runs, walks more, scores more, and slugs more.

dsmith421
05-17-2006, 10:50 PM
I didn't say Dunn sucks, but yes he should be traded.

To whom? For what? You don't just trade a player into the ether, it takes two to tango. You're assuming that some club is going to come along with a quality package for Adam Dunn right now, and I'm telling you categorically that Dunn's value is far lower now than it will be at the deadline, and far lower at the deadline than it will be next year at the deadline. If the Reds trade Adam Dunn right now, they will get below-market value. That is how you build a losing team. Reds fans should be pretty familiar with that process.

kbrake
05-17-2006, 10:51 PM
He did say he was talking about if the Reds were out of it at the deadline.

reds44
05-17-2006, 10:51 PM
To whom? For what? You don't just trade a player into the ether, it takes two to tango. You're assuming that some club is going to come along with a quality package for Adam Dunn right now, and I'm telling you categorically that Dunn's value is far lower now than it will be at the deadline, and far lower at the deadline than it will be next year at the deadline. If the Reds trade Adam Dunn right now, they will get below-market value. That is how you build a losing team. Reds fans should be pretty familiar with that process.
Apparently you missed post #22 of the thread. Check it out. Especially the part that says "if we are out of it at the deadline".

k?

Shaknb8k
05-17-2006, 11:02 PM
Ok......on the count of three....1....2.....3.....Breath in.......and out. Calm down folks. This is what is known as a slump. Yes its a bad slump and yes we are in a losing streak, but just calm down.

Mr. Krivsky if you are reading this then remember people say irrational things when in the middle of a losing streak. Plus we play Detroit in our next series. Thats good for two or three wi........WHAT?......The Tigers are tied for 1st place? Trade 'em all. Bring up Bailey and Bruce and Wood thats our only chance to come out of this road series against a team tied with the World Champions for the division lead.

But seriously, dont act like you have forgot what it like to be in a losing streak. If your going to trade Dunn cause hes doing awful then dont stop there cause about everyone on the team is doing awful. Its May....write this 1st place start off as a fluke and aim for a .500 season. Look at this 25-man roster.....a .500 season is definatly acceptable for a team with good power; an awful rotation, an even more awful bullpen; and a thin bench with 2 catchers on it. Every win over 81 is bonus for me.

2001MUgrad
05-17-2006, 11:03 PM
.220 with 26 rbi's is easier to replace then you might think.

Give me a couple weeks and I feel certain that I could walk here and there strikeout 200 times this year and hit .200.

reds44
05-17-2006, 11:04 PM
Look at this 25-man roster.....a .500 season is definatly acceptable for a team with good power; an awful rotation, an even more awful bullpen; and a thin bench with 2 catchers on it.
And there we go. That is why everybody is freaking out because yes we could be this bad.

If we were a good team nobody would be freaking out. I am not giving up, I just don't want to wake up.

dsmith421
05-17-2006, 11:05 PM
Oh, my apologies, I'm sure it was an erudite, well-thought-out, and reasoned plan of attack for the Reds front office.

UGADaddy
05-17-2006, 11:19 PM
for the person who said that dunn was one of the top 3 players in baseball, you need to watch the other 29 teams play.

pedro
05-18-2006, 12:48 AM
Every thing I ever needed to know about baseball I learned in t-ball.

Wheelhouse
05-18-2006, 01:06 AM
hes a perfect fit with the yanks who need a power of with their injuries and they could move him to dh when williams retires. question is what do the yanks have to offer in a trade?

kbrake
05-18-2006, 01:11 AM
nothing

NastyBoy
05-18-2006, 01:20 AM
Its already been stated, but he is in the first year of a multi-year contract, so I find it highly unlikey that the Reds would trade him unless Reds management got bowled over by an offer for a number one pitching prospect.

Austin Kearns is probably one of the most desireable players that the Reds have because he is still young, still fairly cheap and a good defensive player.

Betterread
05-18-2006, 01:25 AM
I'm not interested in what we can get for Dunn rather
what can Dunn do for the Reds? They need someone to step up and lead us to improvement. If Dunn is really that special player who will be the star of a quality team, now is as good a time as any to display this aptitude.

penantboundreds
05-18-2006, 01:30 AM
i have never met an educated baseball person who says that reading message boards is smart....redszone is a little different than most message boards, ill admit that....still if krivsky is reading this, i dont want him as our gm. for reasons like this thread. dunn has a lot of weaknesses, sure, hopefully by the time hes 30 he gets rid of some of them

and fellas come on now but to say dunn is anywhere out of the top 10, maybe even the top 5 of baseball elites is ludacris because of the stats there are to back up dunn being remarkable

**EDIT i would rather have lopez at 9.5 than dunn at 9.5 for various reasons...starting with defense and position, then going speed followed by the ability to drive in runs as a shortstop and hit in basically any part of the lineup

ss's are rare...and he is a good one (not bashing dunn and saying he isnt rare at all) just saying if you have 3 kearns in the OF you are fine but if you have damian jackson at SS u have problems

CTA513
05-18-2006, 01:31 AM
hes a perfect fit with the yanks who need a power of with their injuries and they could move him to dh when williams retires. question is what do the yanks have to offer in a trade?

Chien-Ming Wang might be a good fit for GABP, but I dont know if they would get rid of a guy thats probably pitching better than the other starters on the staff besides Mussina.

He doesnt strikeout alot of people so the defense has to be good behind him.
Last year his ground out to fly out ratio was 3.08 and so far this year its 3.03. So far this year he has 107 ground outs and 39 fly outs.

saboforthird
05-18-2006, 01:50 AM
This is plain-old not true. Deals are always where you find them. Some times are slightly better than others, but if you're smart, deals are always for the making.

Here's :beerme: to you. :)

saboforthird
05-18-2006, 01:57 AM
i have never met an educated baseball person who says that reading message boards is smart....redszone is a little different than most message boards, ill admit that....still if krivsky is reading this, i dont want him as our gm. for reasons like this thread. dunn has a lot of weaknesses, sure, hopefully by the time hes 30 he gets rid of some of them

and fellas come on now but to say dunn is anywhere out of the top 10, maybe even the top 5 of baseball elites is ludacris because of the stats there are to back up dunn being remarkable

**EDIT i would rather have lopez at 9.5 than dunn at 9.5 for various reasons...starting with defense and position, then going speed followed by the ability to drive in runs as a shortstop and hit in basically any part of the lineup

ss's are rare...and he is a good one (not bashing dunn and saying he isnt rare at all) just saying if you have 3 kearns in the OF you are fine but if you have damian jackson at SS u have problems

And, again I ask for numbers that show Dunn is such a great player away from GABP. I just ain't seeing it.

jimbo
05-18-2006, 02:02 AM
The this person sucks and this person should be traded threads during times when a player is in a slump always amuses me. An old friend of mine always used to say......read the back of his baseball card. Dunn is what he is. A mediocre outfielder who will hit 40+ home runs and 100+ rbis a season. Dunn will most likely get those same numbers this year and for $7.5 million, he's a good buy.

Topcat
05-18-2006, 02:40 AM
Sorry but trading Dunn now is beyond stupid its Obrienesque! The Reds if they win 81 games this year is a huge step forward. We are not winning the World Series! Enjoy the progression, the baby steps towards hope. If deals are going to come. Then look to dealing Kearns(yes I like him alot) but Pitching rules. Deal Felo for 2 upper tier prospects and a High A pitcher, but do not get down on this team. They are progressing and there is hope. As for the ..................... Bandwagon Fans, jump of please:D . This team has some hope ahead finally. I do not give up on my Reds, not now, not ever. This is a begining of a new start with hope and I am staying forever no matter what.

KronoRed
05-18-2006, 02:48 AM
And, again I ask for numbers that show Dunn is such a great player away from GABP. I just ain't seeing it.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=6763&type=batting3

Look past bat avg, an OPS on the road of .836 is pretty darn good for a 3 year avg period.

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2006, 07:09 AM
I feel a little dumber after reading this thread.

Prior to 2005, only 24 active major leaguers with at least 1500 ab's had a career OPS over .900. Edgar Martinez is no longer on the list... Adam Dunn(.902) is. Enough said. Props to woy, who posted this list last year.


CAREER
OPS >= .900
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

OPS OPS OPS AB OBA
1 Barry Bonds 1.053 1.053 9098 .107
2 Todd Helton 1.048 1.048 4051 .088
3 Albert Pujols 1.037 1.037 2363 .073
4 Manny Ramirez 1.010 1.010 5572 .070
5 Frank Thomas .996 .996 6851 .090
6 Lance Berkman .980 .980 2683 .074
7 Vladimir Guerrero .979 .979 4375 .047
8 Jim Thome .979 .979 5726 .068
9 Larry Walker .969 .969 6592 .063
10 Brian Giles .961 .961 4111 .068
11 Alex Rodriguez .955 .955 5590 .041
12 Jason Giambi .951 .951 4757 .070
13 Jeff Bagwell .951 .951 7697 .069
14 Carlos Delgado .949 .949 5008 .052
15 Mike Piazza .947 .947 5805 .044
16 Chipper Jones .937 .937 5616 .058
17 Ken Griffey Jr. .937 .937 7379 .038
18 Edgar Martinez .933 .933 7213 .080
19 Bobby Abreu .929 .929 4140 .069
20 Gary Sheffield .928 .928 7302 .062
21 Jim Edmonds .928 .928 5090 .041
22 Nomar Garciaparra .919 .919 4133 .030
23 J.D. Drew .904 .904 2415 .047
24 Juan Gonzalez .904 .904 6555 .004

forfreelin04
05-18-2006, 08:06 AM
I love the Dunn banter on here. Makes me laugh. Some think hes god and will do anything to defend him while others always use him as a scapegoat. Personally, he can hit all the homeruns he wants. Heck he can break the single season record. But if the Reds still didnt make the playoffs if he were to do this. I don't care. Great for Adam if he does but I would trade him in a heartbeat for another 1990. Bottom line, he is going to fetch the most in a trade.

redsfanfalcon
05-18-2006, 08:20 AM
Dunn's stock is low right now. Wait til he hits a few!

TC81190
05-18-2006, 08:30 AM
Always been a fan of the OPS, but Dunn is the exception. He needs more hits. That's a good offensive player does. He collects hits. And Dunn...well he just doesn't do that.

dabvu2498
05-18-2006, 09:08 AM
Two words about Dunn: Dave Kingman

OnBaseMachine
05-18-2006, 12:51 PM
Two words about Dunn: Dave Kingman

Two more words for you: horrible comparison.

Adam Dunn-Career .383 OBP

Dave Kingman-Career .302 OBP

Handofdeath
05-18-2006, 01:41 PM
I feel a little dumber after reading this thread.

Prior to 2005, only 24 active major leaguers with at least 1500 ab's had a career OPS over .900. Edgar Martinez is no longer on the list... Adam Dunn(.902) is. Enough said. Props to woy, who posted this list last year.


CAREER
OPS >= .900
AT BATS displayed only--not a sorting criteria
OBA vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

OPS OPS OPS AB OBA
1 Barry Bonds 1.053 1.053 9098 .107
2 Todd Helton 1.048 1.048 4051 .088
3 Albert Pujols 1.037 1.037 2363 .073
4 Manny Ramirez 1.010 1.010 5572 .070
5 Frank Thomas .996 .996 6851 .090
6 Lance Berkman .980 .980 2683 .074
7 Vladimir Guerrero .979 .979 4375 .047
8 Jim Thome .979 .979 5726 .068
9 Larry Walker .969 .969 6592 .063
10 Brian Giles .961 .961 4111 .068
11 Alex Rodriguez .955 .955 5590 .041
12 Jason Giambi .951 .951 4757 .070
13 Jeff Bagwell .951 .951 7697 .069
14 Carlos Delgado .949 .949 5008 .052
15 Mike Piazza .947 .947 5805 .044
16 Chipper Jones .937 .937 5616 .058
17 Ken Griffey Jr. .937 .937 7379 .038
18 Edgar Martinez .933 .933 7213 .080
19 Bobby Abreu .929 .929 4140 .069
20 Gary Sheffield .928 .928 7302 .062
21 Jim Edmonds .928 .928 5090 .041
22 Nomar Garciaparra .919 .919 4133 .030
23 J.D. Drew .904 .904 2415 .047
24 Juan Gonzalez .904 .904 6555 .004


Giambi, Bagwell, Piazza, Garciaparra, Gonzalez, and my god J.D. Drew. That is exactly why you have to say statistics don't tell the whole story. There are at least 5 or 6 players in this group with needles sticking out of their arse.

registerthis
05-18-2006, 01:46 PM
There are at least 5 or 6 players in this group with needles sticking out of their arse.

What does that have to do with statistics?

kyle1976
05-18-2006, 01:52 PM
Giambi, Bagwell, Piazza, Garciaparra, Gonzalez, and my god J.D. Drew. That is exactly why you have to say statistics don't tell the whole story. There are at least 5 or 6 players in this group with needles sticking out of their arse.

I'd take any of those guys over Dunn in any situation. Even with the needles still intact. UNLESS we need a key walk in the third inning.

Handofdeath
05-18-2006, 01:57 PM
What does that have to do with statistics?

Are you freakin' kidding me?

registerthis
05-18-2006, 02:06 PM
Are you freakin' kidding me?

No, I'm freakin' not. You say statistics don't tell the whole story, then say that those players are on steroids. Does that somehow mean their numbers aren't worth as much? Were Bonds' HRs not worth as much to his team because he did it while juicing? Steroids may call the legitimacy of the stats into question, but not the stats themselves.

I don't get your freakin' point.

big boy
05-18-2006, 02:24 PM
No, I'm freakin' not. You say statistics don't tell the whole story, then say that those players are on steroids.

You should re-read his post since there is no mention of steroids.

registerthis
05-18-2006, 02:25 PM
You should re-read his post since there is no mention of steroids.


There are at least 5 or 6 players in this group with needles sticking out of their arse.

Perhaps he's insenuating that they're injecting saline?

OldXOhio
05-18-2006, 02:33 PM
The Reds have lost 6 out of 7, about to be 7 out of 8...they need a boost.....

What do you think??

I think you lost me with your opening comment.

dabvu2498
05-18-2006, 02:47 PM
Two more words for you: horrible comparison.

Adam Dunn-Career .383 OBP

Dave Kingman-Career .302 OBP

So he didn't walk as much...

I'd say there are more stats in favor or my comparison. Here are a couple:
Kingman: 1816 K's in 6677 ABs = 3.7 AB/K
Kingman: 442 HR, 1210 RBI = 2.7 RBI/HR
Kingman: .974 Fielding %

Dunn: 782 K's in 2408 ABs = 3.1 AB/K
Dunn: 171 HR in 400 RBI= 2.3 RBI/HR (Was Kingman a better hitter/RBI producer than Dunn???)
Dunn: .975 Fielding %

Then the almighty "runs produced" stat you'll run at me:
Kingman: .86
Dunn: .95
Not as much difference as even I expected.

kyle1976
05-18-2006, 02:57 PM
So he didn't walk as much...

I'd say there are more stats in favor or my comparison. Here are a couple:
Kingman: 1816 K's in 6677 ABs = 3.7 AB/K
Kingman: 442 HR, 1210 RBI = 2.7 RBI/HR
Kingman: .974 Fielding %

Dunn: 782 K's in 2408 ABs = 3.1 AB/K
Dunn: 171 HR in 400 RBI= 2.3 RBI/HR (Was Kingman a better hitter/RBI producer than Dunn???)
Dunn: .975 Fielding %

Then the almighty "runs produced" stat you'll run at me:
Kingman: .86
Dunn: .95
Not as much difference as even I expected.

Great stats...I'd give you 100 rep points if I could. I would think everyone on here believes Dunn is better than Kingman, but it's not by that much.

ochre
05-18-2006, 02:59 PM
Dunn isn't Kingman. It's not even close. This discussion has occured more times than I care to count. Do a search and add your views to one of the existing threads that have already beat this to death.