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View Full Version : We need to make moves NOW .. the question is .. what?



GOREDSGO32
05-18-2006, 10:32 PM
Play GM for a second .. what do you do?

Milton comes back Saturday, I say option White and Hammond for assignment. Bring up Michalak, give him a star, bump Williams from rotation, use him as a long reliever. DFA McCracken, bring up Ross.

Big Klu
05-18-2006, 10:48 PM
Why DFA McCracken? Contrary to popular opinion on this board, people who are 35 years old and older are not automatically worthless. As recently as one year ago, McCracken had 19 pinch hits. He is serviceable from either side of the plate, he can run a little bit, and he can fill in at all three outfield positions. Fans had no problem with Jacob Cruz last season--he filled a role. McCracken is a switch-hitting Cruz with better speed and defensive skills. He is comfortable with his role, and he doesn't complain when he doesn't play much.

Instead, why not option or release the twelfth pitcher (either Williams or White) in order to make room for C. Ross? The Reds will not be any worse (and in all likelihood, will actually be better off) by having one fewer bad pitcher taking up space on the roster, and the bench will benefit by having more depth.

UK Reds Fan
05-18-2006, 10:49 PM
DFA White
DFA McCracken (with Cody Ross, we have less use of McCracken)
Move Williams to Pen
Activate Ross when ready

Rotation:
Harang
Arroyo
Clausen
Milton
Lizard

Felo SS
Dunn IB
Griff LF
Kearns RF
EE 3B
Freel CF
Larue C
Phillips 2b

With Aurilla subbing alot more with EE and Philips, Phillips giving FELO a blow every now and then, Cody Ross platooning in the OF as well as the three headed catcher platooning alot. Hatt is big PH off bench. Coffey is main closer, with Belisle getting more chances over Hammonds, Burns.

Shop Freel and Larue (as they are most expendable) to see what they can fetch for an arm and shop Griffey for any payflex releif we can find and an arm to boot. That is about all I can see Krivsky doing that is realistic. But we surely upgrade our defense getting Griff out of CF and Dunn in LF which in turn greatly assists our pitching. We can't endure 100 more games of this many outs being given away from these 2 in the field. It is nearly laughable by now how much it hurts this team to have 2 gaping holes in the OF. Suck some pride and do what is best for team.

reds44
05-18-2006, 10:53 PM
Why DFA McCracken? Contrary to popular opinion on this board, people who are 35 years old and older are not automatically worthless. As recently as one year ago, McCracken had 19 pinch hits. He is serviceable from either side of the plate, he can run a little bit, and he can fill in at all three outfield positions. Fans had no problem with Jacob Cruz last season--he filled a role. McCracken is a switch-hitting Cruz with better speed and defensive skills. He is comfortable with his role, and he doesn't complain when he doesn't play much.

Instead, why not option or release the twelfth pitcher (either Williams or White) in order to make room for C. Ross? The Reds will not be any worse (and in all likelihood, will actually be better off) by having one fewer bad pitcher taking up space on the roster, and the bench will benefit by having more depth.
I agree with you about Crack. I think Williams needs to go to AAA.

Unassisted
05-18-2006, 11:00 PM
I think Williams needs to go to AAA.He's probably out of options. JaxRed's site (http://redsinsite.com/cms/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=8) is uncertain, though.

If he's DFAed, that's a $1.4M loss.

reds44
05-18-2006, 11:01 PM
He's probably out of options. JaxRed's site (http://redsinsite.com/cms/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=8) is uncertain, though.

If he's DFAed, that's a $1.4M loss.
He has 1 option left.

Big Klu
05-18-2006, 11:12 PM
What I would like to see:

Starting Lineup (8)
Freel CF
Lopez SS
Griffey 1B
Kearns RF
Dunn LF
Encarnacion 3B
LaRue C
Phillips 2B

I could live with Griffey in LF and Dunn at 1B, though.

Bench (6)
C Valentin
C D.Ross
1B Hatteberg
INF Aurilia
OF McCracken
OF C.Ross

Rotation (5)
Harang
Arroyo
Milton
Ramirez
Claussen

Bullpen (6)
Coffey
Weathers
Mercker
Belisle
Shackelford
Hammond


Right now, I would consider starting Aurilia at 2B (hitting 7th, with LaRue hitting 8th) and using Phillips as a pinch runner/defensive replacement. Also, with Mercker currently on the DL, I would keep Williams in relief, but only until Mercker is activated.

Heath
05-18-2006, 11:18 PM
How long's the losing streak been?

How many games under .500 are the Reds?

How many days in last place have the Reds been?

How many games back of the Brewers are the Reds?

Sometimes the first knee-jerk reaction only makes you a jerk sometimes.

GOREDSGO32
05-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Sometimes settlnig for mediocrity because you have low expectations and saying 'oh look, we still have this!' means nothing. If you wanna settle with having poor players in vital spots, thats you. Contending teams don't behave this way though, teams 'happy to be there' do.

And why DFA McCracken? His BA was at .300 and has steadily declined to below .200. Ross is a better player, so is Olmedo. Rather give them time than some washed up role player who has nothing to offer.

reds44
05-18-2006, 11:25 PM
Play GM for a second .. what do you do?

Milton comes back Saturday, I say option White and Hammond for assignment. Bring up Michalak, give him a star, bump Williams from rotation, use him as a long reliever. DFA McCracken, bring up Ross.
Wait you want to bring up Michalak and start him?

What about Arroyo, Harang, Claussen, Ramirez and Milton? Arroyo, Harang, and Ramirez have all beebn solid this year. Milton was good until the one start where he pitched hurt, and Claussen isn't going anywhere.

No way Michalak comes up and starts.

GOREDSGO32
05-18-2006, 11:28 PM
Milachak deserves a start IMO. We need bullpen help, Ramirez could be a solid long reliever.

reds44
05-18-2006, 11:29 PM
Milachak deserves a start IMO. We need bullpen help, Ramirez could be a solid long reliever.
Think about what you are saying.

How does he deserve a start over Ramirez who has been our 3rd best starter this year?

Please tell me.

jimbo
05-18-2006, 11:29 PM
There is no way I put Williams in the pen. We already have enough lefties and I'd go so far as to say White would be a better option.

There is also no way I give up on Hammond. He is pitching much better and his numbers for the past 3 seasons warrant giving him plenty of time to prove himself. His ERA the last month shows he still belongs.

I say send Williams packing with Milton coming back. This is a no brainer in my eyes. I hated the Casey trade, not because we lost Casey, but because we got the Pirates 5th starter in return. I'd rather roll the pitching machine out there every 5th game than give the ball to this guy anymore.

The decision with Ross coming back is the tough one. I realize McCracken is not a favorite here, but I like what he brings to the table. What does Ross really bring to the team that McCracken doesn't? There is a reason Ross is out of options at age 26 and with his third team. I'd be willing to take the risk at trying to get him through waivers and then send him back to Louisville and keep McCracken on the major league roster.

reds44
05-18-2006, 11:31 PM
There is no way I put Williams in the pen. We already have enough lefties and I'd go so far as to say White would be a better option.

There is also no way I give up on Hammond. He is pitching much better and his numbers for the past 3 seasons warrant giving him plenty of time to prove himself. His ERA the last month shows he still belongs.

I say send Williams packing with Milton coming back. This is a no brainer in my eyes. I hated the Casey trade, not because we lost Casey, but because we got the Pirates 5th starter in return. I'd rather roll the pitching machine out there every 5th game than give the ball to this guy anymore.

The decision with Ross coming back is the tough one. I realize McCracken is not a favorite here, but I like what he brings to the table. What does Ross really bring to the team that McCracken doesn't? There is a reason Ross is out of options at age 26 and with his third team. I'd be willing to take the risk at trying to get him through waivers and then send him back to Louisville and keep McCracken on the major league roster.
I don't think you can give up on Ross.

One of the catchers needs to go.

reds44
05-18-2006, 11:39 PM
Milachak deserves a start IMO. We need bullpen help, Ramirez could be a solid long reliever.
Ok let's think about this with an open mind.

Ramirez's MLB stats
1-3, 3.38 ERA, 18 k's, 8 BB, 24 IP

Milachak's AAA stats
4-0, 3.35 ERA, 16 k's, 7 BB, 40 IP

Yes Miachak is 4-0 and Elizardo is 1-3, but Milachak has an entire 0.03 ERA better ERA then Elizardo.

There stats are very similar, problem is the levels at which they are doing it on are not.

Btw, Elizardo is 3rd on the team in ERA behind Coffey and Arroyo.

Heath
05-18-2006, 11:39 PM
Sometimes settlnig for mediocrity because you have low expectations and saying 'oh look, we still have this!' means nothing. If you wanna settle with having poor players in vital spots, thats you. Contending teams don't behave this way though, teams 'happy to be there' do.

Contending teams are contending teams because, well, they have contending players. If for one iota that you thought that this team would have spent 15 days in first place after the shellacking they recieved on Opening Day, well, you must be a psychic.

We've hit this topic hard a lot lately and jumping on the DFA, AAA, ASAP bandwagon sometimes isn't the best idea. Trade ideas are great...we just have to find a willing trade partner.

Don't yell at me for settling for mediocrity. I don't play the game. It's the team which we've been dealt with. A very good offense and worse pitching then we could have all imagined. This franchise has been down for a while, there is a matter of revamping a farm system and reversing fan apathy and also encouraging attendance down at the ball park.

Screaming for DFA's and AAA call-ups is like applying a Dora the Explorer kids band-aid to a major heart surgery incision.

reds44
05-18-2006, 11:45 PM
Play GM for a second .. what do you do?

Milton comes back Saturday, I say option White and Hammond for assignment. Bring up Michalak, give him a star, bump Williams from rotation, use him as a long reliever. DFA McCracken, bring up Ross.
Not to pile on here, but look what I find in another thread.
(Props to JEA on the post)


After Chris Hammond's rough start, he's posted a 1.86 ERA (since April 11), including no runs in 6 of his 8 appearances.

He's been solid the last few years, and aside from those first few appearances, I've seen nothing to make me think he's a different pitcher this year.

I like him on the roster.

So you want to DFA our second best bullpen pitcher since the 1st week of the season?

Reds1
05-18-2006, 11:58 PM
If Williams does have one option left we need to use it. EZ has earned that spot over him. On the 25th man I'm not sure. I don't now Cody Ross very well. I'm not wild about McCrackin, but he's not terrible. I think the key to getting out of the streak isn't making wholesale changes, but the little tweak of getting back Milton and Aurilia along with moving out Williams and whoever else on the bottom rung is fine. I so hope we are trying to improve the pen. Right now it needs more help then the rotation. I liked seeing the bats today. Hope we can squeeze a couple victories out from the best team in baseball Tigers. oh, did I just say that. Wow!

edabbs44
05-19-2006, 12:00 AM
Not to pile on here, but look what I find in another thread.
(Props to JEA on the post)



So you want to DFA our second best bullpen pitcher since the 1st week of the season?
Let's look towards the future and not what Hammond has done during blowouts. Do you really trust him??? Check my response to that post and you'll catch my drift. Here's a few possibilities:

1) Bye bye Williams, couldn't care less if he goes to AAA or KC or home
2) Q goes and Deno comes up
3) White and Burns leave, and fast
4) Make a deal with NYM for Jorge Julio (need a 2B and a 5th starter, you never know...)
5) Make a deal with Minny for some pitching (need hitting)
6) Go balls out ask NYY what it would take for Hughes (can't hurt)
7) Make a deal for anyone in the BP, since Coffey and/or Weathers will be spent in a few months, if not sooner

Guacarock
05-19-2006, 03:49 AM
If I got to play armchair GM, here are the moves I'd make over the next few weeks:

1. Return relievers Shackelford and Burns to Louisville to clear spots on the roster for Milton and Cody Ross, reducing the size of our bullpen from 7 to 6 pitchers. With Shackelford's 8.22 ERA and Burns' 2.68 WHIP, neither is getting the job done. AAA duty beckons until they can iron out their kinks.

2. Diligently work the phones to try to trade one of our three catchers. I'd dangle both Valentin or Larue as trade bait, seeking two commodities: Proven relievers and/or a young stud prospect who could take over 1B later this season or 2007 at the latest.

3. Retain Ramirez in the rotation, moving Williams into the more compact bullpen to compete with White for a mopup role.

4. When Mercker is ready to come off the DL, either designate White for assignment or option Williams to AAA, depending on who shows any signs of having a pulse over the interim.

5. Any further moves really would hinge on whether a decent trade can be worked out quickly for one of our catchers, and who we might land in return -- prospects or immediate ML-ready replacements. If it's the latter, then the crunchtime would arrive a little faster to make tougher roster calls. But I wouldn't move a catcher just to make a move. The return would have to justify the deal happening now, as opposed to July or August.

Any catching deal could impact pitchers White and Williams, as they are most certainly riding the bubble owing to their 7.00-plus ERAs. And McCracken hardly looks indispensable as a bench asset, not with his .188 average and 1 RBI in 32 at bats. Yes, he's a switch-hitter with some versatility, but I'd shed him in a heartbeat to keep Cody Ross in our system for a summertime tryout. There's more potential in Ross across the board -- defense, power and a higher OBP.

Hondo
05-19-2006, 12:01 PM
They need to make a Deal now for a Starter. Maybe we can pry Sean Casey away from the Bucs for Williams. Then turn and trade Sean Casey to Tampa Bay for Kazmir. Right!

JaredRoberts.com

flyer85
05-19-2006, 12:25 PM
5) Make a deal with Minny for some pitching (need hitting)The Twins pitching has been awful(Radke, Lohse, Silva, Baker). Team ERA is 5.44, the way I see it they have little pitching to trade except for the cannon fodder they have been removing from the rotation.

Twins are 10th in runs and 12th in ERA. They have problems everywhere.

flyer85
05-19-2006, 12:27 PM
So you want to DFA our second best bullpen pitcher since the 1st week of the season?... and thje guy that gave up an extra inning HR to a hitter he had no business pitching to. Being the 2nd best pitcher in this pen isn't saying much. Hammond is simply cannon fodder and the Reds won't be worse off without him.

flyer85
05-19-2006, 12:29 PM
With Shackelford's 8.22 ERA and Burns' 2.68 WHIP, neither is getting the job done. AAA duty beckons until they can iron out their kinks.if Shack was used properly, strictly as a LOOGY, he would likely be fine. Certainly Mercker (if healthy) and Hammond have never been LOOGYs.

Falls City Beer
05-19-2006, 12:30 PM
Mercker is far more valuable than Shackelford. S-ford is terrible.

Kc61
05-19-2006, 12:32 PM
1. Add Milton, keep the Lizard and start him.

2. DFA White. Put Williams in the bullpen as (another) mop up man.

3. Trade a catcher, probably Valentin, for a relief pitcher. Add a prospect to deal to get someone decent in return.

4. Add back Cody Ross to replace Valentin on bench. Keep McCracken for awhile since he is basically the only lefty remaining on the bench if Valentin is traded.

5. Keep looking for bullpen help -- including in the minor league system -- and, possibly, another starter. But I can live with Arroyo, Harang, Claussen, Milton, and Lizard until the trade deadline. As bullpen upgraded, drop non-performing current relievers. Names are obvious.

flyer85
05-19-2006, 12:35 PM
Mercker is far more valuable than Shackelford. S-ford is terrible.... when foolishly used in a non-LOOGY role. He has a pitch the other two lefties don't which is a good breaking ball. Using him as a general reliever is simply setting him up for failure. Mecker is more valuable because he has generally been effective and has the ability to get both RH and LH hitters out.

LH Hitters are 1 for 15 off of Shack this season.

Falls City Beer
05-19-2006, 12:44 PM
... when foolishly used in a non-LOOGY role. He has a pitch the other two lefties don't which is a good breaking ball. Using him as a general reliever is simply setting him up for failure. Mecker is more valuable because he has generally been effective and has the ability to get both RH and LH hitters out.

LH Hitters are 1 for 15 off of Shack this season.

Maybe. Though I'm not sure there's room in a bullpen as bad as the Reds' for the luxury of a loogy.

flyer85
05-19-2006, 12:45 PM
Shack numbers in 05-06

LH Hitters are 9-54 with 3BBs 15Ks
RH Hitters are 20-80 with 11BBs 9Ks

Those numbers are pretty clear that
1) Shack would likely make a good LOOGY
2) That having him pitch to RH batters is a bad idea

Safe at Home
05-19-2006, 01:39 PM
Man you guys are the stat experts, wow my head is a spinning:notworthy

Highlifeman21
05-19-2006, 02:24 PM
I don't think you can give up on Ross.

One of the catchers needs to go.


And his name is Jason LaRue.

I continue to ask, has this organization given up completely on Ryan Wagner?

As for McCracken, I'd rather see him or Cody Ross ride the bench and have Denorfia continue to play everyday in AAA as opposed to rotting on the bench. McCracken and C. Ross can rot, Denorfia needs the everyday PAs, albeit AAA PAs.

Has Milton even had a rehab start yet?

pedro
05-19-2006, 02:28 PM
And his name is Jason LaRue.

I continue to ask, has this organization given up completely on Ryan Wagner?


based on his AAA stats, small sample size aside, perhaps they should.

PuffyPig
05-19-2006, 03:55 PM
Shack numbers in 05-06

LH Hitters are 9-54 with 3BBs 15Ks
RH Hitters are 20-80 with 11BBs 9Ks

Those numbers are pretty clear that
1) Shack would likely make a good LOOGY
2) That having him pitch to RH batters is a bad idea

Even RH hitters are only hitting .250 against him. He's much better vs. LH hitters, but quite servicable vs. RH hitters. At least based on BA.

flyer85
05-19-2006, 04:05 PM
Even RH hitters are only hitting .250 against him. He's much better vs. LH hitters, but quite servicable vs. RH hitters. At least based on BA.most of the success against RH hitters was last season, this year he has been lights out against lefties and awful against righties.

ThatPitchIsDunn
05-19-2006, 06:41 PM
And his name is Jason LaRue.

I continue to ask, has this organization given up completely on Ryan Wagner?

As for McCracken, I'd rather see him or Cody Ross ride the bench and have Denorfia continue to play everyday in AAA as opposed to rotting on the bench. McCracken and C. Ross can rot, Denorfia needs the everyday PAs, albeit AAA PAs.

Has Milton even had a rehab start yet?


The two perfect innings in the HOF game count, right?

Highlifeman21
05-19-2006, 08:18 PM
1. Add Milton, keep the Lizard and start him.

2. DFA White. Put Williams in the bullpen as (another) mop up man.

3. Trade a catcher, probably Valentin, for a relief pitcher. Add a prospect to deal to get someone decent in return.

4. Add back Cody Ross to replace Valentin on bench. Keep McCracken for awhile since he is basically the only lefty remaining on the bench if Valentin is traded.

5. Keep looking for bullpen help -- including in the minor league system -- and, possibly, another starter. But I can live with Arroyo, Harang, Claussen, Milton, and Lizard until the trade deadline. As bullpen upgraded, drop non-performing current relievers. Names are obvious.


1. Keep El Lizard in the rotation? Just asking, I couldn't tell from the way that was worded whether you meant the Human Launching Pad, or El Lizard.

2. Send Williams to the minors after you DFA White. We can find someone with a pulse in AAA to take Williams' place.

3. Why trade our only backstop that can hit from the left side of the plate? Ross isn't going anywhere, being Arroyo's personal, so that leaves LaRue and Valentin. LaRue should have more perceived market value, and again, Valentin hits from the left side.

4. If trading Valentin means McCracken has to say, then no way. C. Ross needs to prove himself in the rehab stint before he becomes a bench player for us. McCracken's just plain horrible, even if he does hit from the left side.

5. Unfortunately, Coffey's the only thing that's performed consistently, decently well. I get really anxious everytime Weathers finds the mound, and as for the rest of the bullpen, it's no secret they are beyond worthless. I don't mind your 5 man rotation, but I wonder if the Lizard will begin to disappoint, in the same regard I'm hoping Claussen bounces back.

Realistically, what do we have to offer for some quality bullpen? Freel? Aurillia? LaRue? C. Ross? Am I missing tradeable parts that wouldn't completely change the dynamic of our team?