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dougdirt
05-21-2006, 03:51 PM
Louisville is down 3-0 in the 4th inning. They have yet to get a hit.

Chattanooga is tied at 0 in the 2nd. Travis Chick is on the mound for the Lookouts.

Dayton and Sarasota both play later.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 03:52 PM
As soon as I typed that Olmedo and Denorfia both hit singles.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 03:55 PM
Louisville is on the board, 3-1 with a single by Jesse Gutierrez.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:17 PM
Louisville is down 6-2 in the 8th.

Chattanooga is up 2-1. Votto is 1-3 with a double. Travis Chick has gone 6 innings, 5 hits, 1 run, walking 2 and striking out 3.

Sarasota is currently in a delay.

Dayton is tied at 0 in the 4rd inning. Travis Wood has 5 strikeouts and 2 walks in 3 innings. Wood has only allowed a bunt single in the first.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:28 PM
Dayton is hitless through 4 innings.

Travis Chick is done for Chattanooga. His final line was 6 ip, 5 hits, 1 run, 2bb and 3k.

OnBaseMachine
05-21-2006, 05:32 PM
Chick has been impressive this year minus that last start where he allowed five runs in the first inning. The stuff is there for him to be a pretty good major league pitcher. Think maybe a 2002 or 2003 version of Kip Wells.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:34 PM
Travis Wood through 4, still just allowed that bunt single. Looks like a nice little pitching duel going.

Aronchis
05-21-2006, 05:37 PM
Chick's future is in the bullpen because he is a 2 pitch pitcher and that secondary pitch(the slider) isn't consistant enough yet, when it is, he can work in the majors. He whipped low A in 2004 with just a fastball essentially, but when you move up to AA, you gotta have something more. That explains his problems 'adapting" to AA more than anything.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:40 PM
Aronchis, I would say he is still 2 years of starting away before you even think of a move to the bullpen. You have to remember he is still 21 years old. Lots and lots of time to develop as a pitcher.

As for Dayton, they are hitless in 5 innings so far.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:41 PM
Chattanooga is up 4-1. Joey Votto is 2-4 with 2 doubles and an RBI. Aaron Herr is 3-4.

Travis Wood has 7 strikeouts through 4 innings for Dayton. 2 walks to go with that.

Aronchis
05-21-2006, 05:41 PM
Aronchis, I would say he is still 2 years of starting away before you even think of a move to the bullpen. You have to remember he is still 21 years old. Lots and lots of time to develop as a pitcher.

As for Dayton, they are hitless in 5 innings so far.

Unless he developes a changeup, he won't make it as a starter. He is a 1 trick pony right now, looking to polish up his slider. He is a bullpen pitcher.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:48 PM
Travis Wood through 5 innings, no runs allowed in a 0-0 game going to the 6th. Dayton still has no hits.

Aronchis, like I said though, he has time to develop. I agree that he needs a changeup, and hopefully someone can help him out with it. However to throw him to the bullpen right now would be silly in my opinion based on his age and ability.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:52 PM
Dayton breaks through after 5.2 innings to get their first hit off the bat of Mike DeJesus.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:55 PM
Jay Bruce single scores DeJesus and Dayton takes the lead 1-0.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 05:57 PM
Louisville lost 6-2.

Chattanooga is up 4-1. Carlos Geuvera has gone 2 innings of hitless relief for the Lookouts.

Sarasota is tied at 0 in the 3rd inning.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 06:06 PM
Travis Wood is done after 5.1 innings.
Bo Lanier is coming in to relieve Wood. Lainer promtply gets a double play on his first pitch to end the inning.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 06:09 PM
Travis Woods final line: 5.1 ip, 1 hit, 3bb, 7k, 0 runs.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 06:15 PM
Chattanooga won 4-1. Travis Chick got the win. David Shafer picked up his 13th save of the year.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 06:19 PM
Heading to the 5th, Sarasota is in a 0-0 tie. Brandon Roberts has the only hit for the Reds. James Avery has gone 4 innings, allowed 2 hits, 0 walks and struck out 3.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 06:29 PM
Travis Woods final line: 5.1 ip, 1 hit, 3bb, 7k, 0 runs.
Every night I say a prayer that his arm is going to hold up.

Betterread
05-21-2006, 07:10 PM
Every night I say a prayer that his arm is going to hold up.

Its good to see 2 good young arms in our system - and let's hope their good stats are indicators of future success.

Wood : 43 1/3 IP - 31 hits - 50 Ks - 19 yrs old
Bailey: 45 IP - 34 hits - 52 Ks - 20 yrs old

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 07:17 PM
Its good to see 2 good young arms in our system - and let's hope their good stats are indicators of future success.

Wood : 43 1/3 IP - 31 hits - 50 Ks - 19 yrs old
Bailey: 45 IP - 34 hits - 52 Ks - 20 yrs old
And I hope a few college SPs get drafted in a few weeks so they can all arrive within a year or two from each other. Things will be looking up.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 09:52 PM
The Reds actually have quite a few pitching prospects in the system. Not a ton with Ace type potential, but quite a few with rotation potential.

Aronchis
05-21-2006, 09:57 PM
The Reds actually have quite a few pitching prospects in the system. Not a ton with Ace type potential, but quite a few with rotation potential.

After Bailey,Wood and Cueto, it falls of majorly however. Lecure is sorta in the middle and is still adapting, but the rest look like bullpen pitchers(Avery,Ward) and Stevens looks like a failure.

Redmachine2003
05-21-2006, 10:04 PM
After Bailey,Wood and Cueto, it falls of majorly however. Lecure is sorta in the middle and is still adapting, but the rest look like bullpen pitchers(Avery,Ward) and Stevens looks like a failure. Wow some of these guys don't even have a whole year under their belts and they are considered failures as starters. Tough crowd, tough crowd

Aronchis
05-21-2006, 10:07 PM
Wow some of these guys don't even have a whole year under their belts and they are considered failures as starters. Tough crowd, tough crowd

For College pitchers like Avery,Ward and Stevens, you don't have much time. It is either putup, find your role or leave baseball. These guys are 22-23, not alot of time. A 19 year old lefty like Valliquette can stink for couple years before he is required to turn it on, but not a 22 year old pitcher like Stevens.

traderumor
05-21-2006, 10:16 PM
For College pitchers like Avery,Ward and Stevens, you don't have much time. It is either putup, find your role or leave baseball. These guys are 22-23, not alot of time. A 19 year old lefty like Valliquette can stink for couple years before he is required to turn it on, but not a 22 year old pitcher like Stevens.22? With a pitcher, you can hold out on them until 25-26. He has three more years, even if he posts middling numbers.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 10:20 PM
After Bailey,Wood and Cueto, it falls of majorly however. Lecure is sorta in the middle and is still adapting, but the rest look like bullpen pitchers(Avery,Ward) and Stevens looks like a failure.

Ward seems to be making strides forward. Ward is striking out over 10.5 per/9 in May, his WHIP is 1.02 this month, and his walk rate has dropped. Remember, he didnt pitch at all last year after the college season was over.

Aronchis, I think you just want to much to fast. You have given up on a 21 year old in AA (Chick), and well everyone else in our entire system that isnt Bailey, Wood, Ceuto or possibly Lecure. Unless you are taking a guy from college with a top 5 pick, they take time to develop. Thats just how it works.

Aronchis
05-21-2006, 10:30 PM
Ward seems to be making strides forward. Ward is striking out over 10.5 per/9 in May, his WHIP is 1.02 this month, and his walk rate has dropped. Remember, he didnt pitch at all last year after the college season was over.

Aronchis, I think you just want to much to fast. You have given up on a 21 year old in AA (Chick), and well everyone else in our entire system that isnt Bailey, Wood, Ceuto or possibly Lecure. Unless you are taking a guy from college with a top 5 pick, they take time to develop. Thats just how it works.

I have given up on Chick(who turns 22 soon)? I never said that, but I think he has a bullpen future. He doesn't have any real good secondary pitch that he can use confidently. I feel the same with Avery.

I am just commenting how the college guys are getting outpitched by the younger pitchers. Wood and Cueto have outpitched Ward/Stevens to this point. That isn't good, much like Bruce outplaying BJ. Their future doesn't look as good. Ward should be mowing down low A caliber talent with his supposed "stuff", but his last start was the first time he showed signs of doing just that and he still gave up 2 runs. He is struggling as a 22 year old in low A.

I am not confident in Terry Renyolds "small school" pitching history either. He had plenty of college pitcher drafted from small school's flop with the Dodgers.

I would stay with Bailey,Wood and Cueto, keep Lecure in mind and forget the rest except the ones that can move to the pen. Not a deep crop dirt, something we will just have to accept.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 10:30 PM
Aaron Harang didnt debut until he was 24.
Brandon Webb didnt debut until he was 24.
John Patterson didnt debut until he was 24.

Those were off the top of my head...I am sure there are more.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 10:33 PM
Chick turns 22 next month.

dougdirt
05-21-2006, 10:38 PM
I also would not say Wood is outpitching Ward. Their numbers are very comparable outside of Wood strikes out more and gives up a ton more home runs.

tbball10
05-22-2006, 12:03 AM
Aronchis, you are the king of pessimism when it comes to starting pitching prospects. I would love to know how you know about the secondary pitches of Chick, Avery, Lecure, Ward, Stevens, Fisher etc. Have you actually seen these guys pitch or are you guessing from their stats?(just wondering) Because despite Chick's last bad start (3ip 7er) he is 2-0 with a 2.88era 29k's and 11bb in 34.1ip, which are great numbers, especially for a 21 year-old in AA. Also, you told me once in a minor league game update thread that "Lecure's breaking pitch was flat again." Were you at the game? do you have a source? Just curious. And I agree with dougdirt, these guys are not necessarily #1 or 2 starters, but are all good prospects and could be in the Reds' rotation in the future.

Caveat Emperor
05-22-2006, 12:48 AM
Because despite Chick's last bad start (3ip 7er) he is 2-0 with a 2.88era 29k's and 11bb in 34.1ip, which are great numbers, especially for a 21 year-old in AA.

Chick's been slated for bullpen duty since when he came over in the trade with San Diego due to his lack of an off-speed pitch to complement a nice fastball and hard slider. He's a guy that Mario Soto should've been assigned to as a "pet project" in Florida this spring -- work with the kid until you get him throwing a changeup.

I agree that it's too soon to give up on him -- but he's gotta learn that 3rd pitch if he's going to have any chance of being a starter. So far, I haven't heard anything about it, though.

tbball10
05-22-2006, 01:00 AM
Chick's been slated for bullpen duty since when he came over in the trade with San Diego due to his lack of an off-speed pitch to complement a nice fastball and hard slider. He's a guy that Mario Soto should've been assigned to as a "pet project" in Florida this spring -- work with the kid until you get him throwing a changeup.

I agree that it's too soon to give up on him -- but he's gotta learn that 3rd pitch if he's going to have any chance of being a starter. So far, I haven't heard anything about it, though.

Does Chick have a developing changeup or does he not throw one at all, or do you know? All I know is he is 21 and in AA, and dominating despite one start. If he is doing this to AA hitters with 2 pitches, he is better than I thought, and when he does develop a 3rd pitch, he will be more dominant.

Aronchis
05-22-2006, 03:28 AM
Aronchis, you are the king of pessimism when it comes to starting pitching prospects. I would love to know how you know about the secondary pitches of Chick, Avery, Lecure, Ward, Stevens, Fisher etc. Have you actually seen these guys pitch or are you guessing from their stats?(just wondering) Because despite Chick's last bad start (3ip 7er) he is 2-0 with a 2.88era 29k's and 11bb in 34.1ip, which are great numbers, especially for a 21 year-old in AA. Also, you told me once in a minor league game update thread that "Lecure's breaking pitch was flat again." Were you at the game? do you have a source? Just curious. And I agree with dougdirt, these guys are not necessarily #1 or 2 starters, but are all good prospects and could be in the Reds' rotation in the future.

I gain the observations by other Reds sites who saw them live or on TV and post-game footage. I then pass it on to this board tbball.

I wouldn't overly go into "Pessimism", but the reality of the situation is that college arms that don't produce quickly, don't produce later on most of the time. The clock is ticking....................

icehole3
05-22-2006, 07:35 AM
In other words he's just like the rest of us, not really sure.

WebScorpion
05-22-2006, 02:14 PM
All good discussions need differing viewpoints. Though I don't always agree with Aronchris, I do appreciate his contributions. I think we should take what everyone says with a grain of salt and avoid judging anyone's particular viewpoint. After all, a pessimist is a realist when he's right and an optimist is a blind fool when he's wrong. But any Reds' fan is always a friend of mine. ;)

tbball10
05-22-2006, 09:04 PM
All good discussions need differing viewpoints. Though I don't always agree with Aronchris, I do appreciate his contributions. I think we should take what everyone says with a grain of salt and avoid judging anyone's particular viewpoint. After all, a pessimist is a realist when he's right and an optimist is a blind fool when he's wrong. But any Reds' fan is always a friend of mine. ;)

I agree. I'm very glad he shares his opinion, I was just wondering where he got his info (what sites)? I just disagree with him in this case.

Aronchis
05-22-2006, 09:49 PM
I agree. I'm very glad he shares his opinion, I was just wondering where he got his info (what sites)? I just disagree with him in this case.

Cincinnati.com, Reds Reporter,Redszone;) for starters, try going around to some of the prospects sites that follow these guys. Some of the info is in post-game articles. My comment from Bailey "drifting" his foot when throwing his breaking pitch was actually from a story after his second no-hitter when Homer admitted it was a problem. Then actual footage on Bailey, which was posted on this site a few weeks ago, it shows Bailey doing exactly that, floating his leg on his curve.

Note: I bet Bailey's "miscue" on his curve drives the pitching coach nuts, since it is more mental than anything else..........;)

tbball10
05-22-2006, 10:28 PM
i just watched the videos and i think i saw what you meant. do you mean the right foot hanging up in the air longer on his curveball (after the pitch)?