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View Full Version : 2-7 last nine, 5-10 last 15 games - why?



GOREDSGO32
05-21-2006, 04:31 PM
I don't have stats, I don't know if its selective thinknig but I think there have been an AWFUL lot of late inning losses - games that were either tied late innings and we lost, or we blew a lead, or we lost in extras.

1-2 versus Arizona
2-1 versus Washington (Griffey's HR saved this series)
0-3 versus Phillies
1-2 versus Pirates
1-2 versus Tigers

How many games were tied or with a lead in late innings (7th and later) during this stretch that we lost? I know Weathers has THREE straight BS's.

cincyinco
05-21-2006, 06:11 PM
Why?

Becuase we simply haven't improved all that much from last year. We are not that good. We just aren't.

I'd love to believe we are, the hot start in april was great, but didn't fool me. They got heart, they play hard, but they are just not there yet. They're a lot more fun to watch this year though. Just give it some time. Krivs is a man who seemingly knows what he's doing, he's made some shrewd and astute moves. But he's only been here 3-4 months. You can't wave a magic wand and have this team be a contender by adding 1 league average pitcher in Arroyo. Its gonna take a few more of those, an actual bullpen, and some consistency.

Next year, after the draft, trade deadline, and offseason, I think we'll be in much better shape. Bank on it. And enjoy watching how Krivs and Cast turn around this once proud franchise.

reds44
05-21-2006, 06:13 PM
Exactly.

Enjoy being in the race for however long we are in it, and you just have to hope guys like BP, EE, Felipe, Kearns, Dunn, etc (all the young guys) keep improving.

Hopefully we stay in the race, but I am not banking on it. Krivs knows what he is doing, he just needs a full off-season to do it. Don't worry our time will come, but for now just enjoy watching baseball.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 06:20 PM
Exactly.

Enjoy being in the race for however long we are in it, and you just have to hope guys like BP, EE, Felipe, Kearns, Dunn, etc (all the young guys) keep improving.

Hopefully we stay in the race, but I am not banking on it. Krivs knows what he is doing, he just needs a full off-season to do it. Don't worry our time will come, but for know just enjoy watching baseball.
Agreed. I want to believe that Kriv is searching for BP help and he will get it as long as it's out there. But I am enjoying the ride.

reds44
05-21-2006, 06:23 PM
Agreed. I want to believe that Kriv is searching for BP help and he will get it as long as it's out there. But I am enjoying the ride.
It's not easy finding BP from outside the organization this early in the year because the majority of teams still think they have a shot at winning this year.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 06:28 PM
It's not easy finding BP from outside the organization this early in the year because the majority of teams still think they have a shot at winning this year.
Since it is our #1 need right now, he should still be looking. And if we aren't going to use Deno to our benefit, we should be dangling him to teams who could use him. NYY comes to mind, since all 3 OFs are hurting right now. Same with LA.

reds44
05-21-2006, 06:28 PM
You would get more by trading Griffey or Kearns the Deno.

flyer85
05-21-2006, 06:29 PM
because the team wasn't as good as their early record. Regression to the mean.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 06:30 PM
You would get more by trading Griffey or Kearns the Deno.
No one will take on Grif. And no problem trading Kearns as long as we get some young, good pitching. Cannot be young OR good. Has to be both.

reds44
05-21-2006, 06:31 PM
No one will take on Grif. And no problem trading Kearns as long as we get some young, good pitching. Cannot be young OR good. Has to be both.
The Yanks would give you something decent for Griffey.

KronoRed
05-21-2006, 06:35 PM
The Yanks would give you something decent for Griffey.
They don't have much and they are hanging on to it, they also have no need for JR, they are already loaded down with OF's who need to DH.

reds44
05-21-2006, 06:37 PM
They don't have much and they are hanging on to it, they also have no need for JR, they are already loaded down with OF's who need to DH.
Not if he would agree to move to the corner outfielder. I doubt he would agree to New York anyway since he doesn't like the Yanks, and he would have to switch positions.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 06:41 PM
Not if he would agree to move to the corner outfielder. I doubt he would agree to New York anyway since he doesn't like the Yanks, and he would have to switch positions.
If Kriv could get something useful for KGJ then I would be all for it.

cincyinco
05-21-2006, 06:49 PM
My point is this:

Back when we got Griff, I' had a lot of hope at the beginning of each year, and unfortunately had that dwindle year after year after year when it became evident Ownership didn't care about winning, didn't acquire pitching, lied about 2003 being the year because we got a new stadium, hired a bonehead in Obrien after, and watched this franchise - one that was in good position just in 99 to have a good contender for several years - come crashing to its knees...

We've all been bitter. Very bitter. We expect better from Cincinnati baseball, and righly so.

Here is what I can say about Krivs, Cast, and this year for the Reds. I can finally say I feel good about this franchise. I finally feel faith being restored in my team. I can feel it in my gut... We fans are going to be rewarded for our pennence. But its not going to come overnight, because Lindner and Obrien burned this team to the ground. This year is a stepping stone, and if we're in it and everything falls into place, then its merely a bonus that more than any of us should ever have realistically hoped for.

Finally, there is light at the end of the tunnel... the clouds are parting..

cincyinco
05-21-2006, 06:51 PM
Not if he would agree to move to the corner outfielder. I doubt he would agree to New York anyway since he doesn't like the Yanks, and he would have to switch positions.

I was pretty sure KGJ had said in an interview last year or year before that these days he would feel different about NY, he doesn't hold the same animosity against the Yankees that he once did...

But, I'm too lazy to search for the link... someone has to know what i'm referring to.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 06:58 PM
I was pretty sure KGJ had said in an interview last year or year before that these days he would feel different about NY, he doesn't hold the same animosity against the Yankees that he once did...

But, I'm too lazy to search for the link... someone has to know what i'm referring to.
I remember that from last year...I was appalled that they didn't deal him last year to the CWS and possibly the NYY. I really wish he would make a move to LF b/c he has no business playing CF right now. He seems so tentative out there, and rightfully so. But he needs to swallow his pride and make a move that helps the team.

reds44
05-21-2006, 07:00 PM
I remember that from last year...I was appalled that they didn't deal him last year to the CWS and possibly the NYY. I really wish he would make a move to LF b/c he has no business playing CF right now. He seems so tentative out there, and rightfully so. But he needs to swallow his pride and make a move that helps the team.
Dunn needs to move to 1B before Griffey can move to LF. I think AK should stay in RF because his arm prevents guys going from 1st to 3rd on singles.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 07:04 PM
Dunn needs to move to 1B before Griffey can move to LF. I think AK should stay in RF because his arm prevents guys going from 1st to 3rd on singles.
Very true. AK is our best OF right now and has a gun. Dunn to 1st and Grif to LF. Freel to CF with Deno playing there 2-3 times per week.

reds44
05-21-2006, 07:06 PM
Very true. AK is our best OF right now and has a gun. Dunn to 1st and Grif to LF. Freel to CF with Deno playing there 2-3 times per week.
I would like that. I have said many times before that I think Junior would be a very good defensive LFer.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 07:07 PM
I would like that. I have said many times before that I think Junior would be a very good defensive CFer.
Jr?

Safe at Home
05-21-2006, 07:48 PM
I think Boston would be interested in Griff. just to keep NY from getting him. And I think the Angels would take him to. The AL is the place to shop JR. if you were going to do it.

WVRedsFan
05-21-2006, 07:56 PM
The Yanks would give you something decent for Griffey.

That's the problem. The Yankees don't have anything decent. You can't give up 100 RBI's unless you get a real good return. The Yankees are not going to do that.

Reds1
05-21-2006, 08:03 PM
Good starting pitching and that's about it. Errors, lack of hitting with RISP, and RP stinks. Also, pretty touch schedule hasn't helped.

I'm still not sure they haven't dramatically improved. Remember the tigers have the best record in baseball and we were in everygame. Just can't get some key hits, This Reds team needs a nice winning streak. Milw, Arizona, and Cubs. They need to make hey before Houston, Cards, and White sox series.

GOREDSGO32
05-21-2006, 08:38 PM
More I was asking how many late inning games we lost during this stretch ..

saboforthird
05-21-2006, 08:45 PM
I remember that from last year...I was appalled that they didn't deal him last year to the CWS and possibly the NYY. I really wish he would make a move to LF b/c he has no business playing CF right now. He seems so tentative out there, and rightfully so. But he needs to swallow his pride and make a move that helps the team.

Are the Reds even ASKING Junior whether he wants to play LF? I know it's been brought up a few times that he was asked to play 1B, but I don't recall hearing anything about a shift to another outfield position. Seems it's OK to shift from the outfield to the infield. That implies an outfielder is aging. Shifting to another outfield position might make Junior just a tad bit sensitive about the whole thing.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 08:46 PM
That's the problem. The Yankees don't have anything decent. You can't give up 100 RBI's unless you get a real good return. The Yankees are not going to do that.
100 RBI if he stays healthy. If he doesn't move out of CF it will be a lot tougher to reach that milestone.
And the Yanks do have a few pieces to deal. But not anything that would help right now.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 08:48 PM
Are the Reds even ASKING Junior whether he wants to play LF? I know it's been brought up a few times that he was asked to play 1B, but I don't recall hearing anything about a shift to another outfield position. Seems it's OK to shift from the outfield to the infield. That implies an outfielder is aging. Shifting to another outfield position might make Junior just a tad bit sensitive about the whole thing.
Well it's time for Junior to realize that he isn't cutting it in CF. And I really on't think that he is asking and Narron is telling him "You're Griffey Jr. You can't move out of CF".

reds44
05-21-2006, 08:50 PM
Well it's time for Junior to realize that he isn't cutting it in CF. And I really on't think that he is asking and Narron is telling him "You're Griffey Jr. You can't move out of CF".
Actually he could be if Narron doesn't want Dunn to play 1st. If that is the case Griffey has nowhere else to play but center.

edabbs44
05-21-2006, 08:54 PM
Actually he could be if Narron doesn't want Dunn to play 1st. If that is the case Griffey has nowhere else to play but center.
Then Narron has to take the good with the bad, since we all agree Dunn, Griffey and whoever is playing first aren't challenging for Gold Gloves at their current positions. Griffey in left and Freel/Deno in CF is a much better outfield than what is currently in place and Dunn, IMO, wouldn't be enough of a downgrade at 1st to negate the upgrade in the OF.

M2
05-21-2006, 09:21 PM
I don't have stats

Yes you do. They're easy to find. It's simple a matter of using your Web browser to look them up.

Being outscored 82-60 hasn't helped.

cincyinco
05-22-2006, 03:01 PM
That's the problem. The Yankees don't have anything decent. You can't give up 100 RBI's unless you get a real good return. The Yankees are not going to do that.

This statement is just not true. It used to be, but not anymore...

Eric Duncan, Philip Hughes especially, Jose Tabata(go look at this 17 year olds numbers in the SAL.. :eek:), Austin Jackson, CJ Henry.. and this after graduating Wang and Cano. I tell you one thing, its certainly a lot better than our putrid farm system.

GOREDSGO32
05-22-2006, 03:29 PM
M2: Well I thought maybe as opposed to looking up stats for every single game, maybe someone noticed a factoid in an article somewhere, jeez.

edabbs44
05-22-2006, 03:34 PM
This statement is just not true. It used to be, but not anymore...

Eric Duncan, Philip Hughes especially, Jose Tabata(go look at this 17 year olds numbers in the SAL.. :eek:), Austin Jackson, CJ Henry.. and this after graduating Wang and Cano. I tell you one thing, its certainly a lot better than our putrid farm system.
I agree that they have improved their farm system recently, but let's take a step back. CJ Henry and Austin Jackson? They are in low A right now. Drafted last year, so they have a few months of pro ball under their belts. Not a huge sample size there.
And Eric Duncan is following the Drew Henson path.