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View Full Version : Should Phillips and Lopez switch positions?



Z-Fly
05-23-2006, 06:17 PM
This thread my have already been started, but I have not seen it anywhere. Lance asked the question on his show, should FeLo move to 2B and BP move to SS. I think this would greatly improve the defense. Maybe I am crazy but I would like to see what you guys think.

pedro
05-23-2006, 06:18 PM
yes.

saboforthird
05-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Phillips has a much better arm, and I believe at least as good range as Lopez.

BEETTLEBUG
05-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Yes If It Will Improve Defense.

reds44
05-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Depends. When was the last time BP played SS on a consistent basis? When was the last time Felipe played 2nd?

Doesn't seem like soemthing you can do in May, it is something that will need to be done in November, December, January, and spring training.

reds44
05-23-2006, 06:26 PM
Phillips has a much better arm, and I believe at least as good range as Lopez.
Phillips doesn't have a much better arm then Felipe. Felipe has a really good arm, range is his problem.

KronoRed
05-23-2006, 06:40 PM
Yes, and it should be done soon.

Redhook
05-23-2006, 07:00 PM
Depends. When was the last time BP played SS on a consistent basis? When was the last time Felipe played 2nd?

Doesn't seem like soemthing you can do in May, it is something that will need to be done in November, December, January, and spring training.

Phillips hasn't played shortstop on a consistent basis for atleast 4 years, before 2003 and maybe longer. Lopez played 7 games at second last year.

This is definitely something that needs to be handled in the off-season. Doing this during the season could be a mess and a huge ego buster for Lopez. After the season would give him Lopez time to heal mentally and both of them plenty of time to learn the new position.

steig
05-23-2006, 07:14 PM
No, Philips needs to prove that he is an everyday player first. Why have a platoon system at short or be moving Lopez back to short every few days. I believe shortstop is a key position where you want continuity in an everyday player. If Phillips can prove that he is at that level then look at switching positions. Until then leave Lopez there.

pedro
05-23-2006, 07:18 PM
Phillips hasn't played shortstop on a consistent basis for atleast 4 years, before 2003 and maybe longer. Lopez played 7 games at second last year.

This is definitely something that needs to be handled in the off-season. Doing this during the season could be a mess and a huge ego buster for Lopez. After the season would give him Lopez time to heal mentally and both of them plenty of time to learn the new position.


That's not true. Phillips played most of last year at Buffalo at SS.

I do agree that they should wait until after the season though.

RedsManRick
05-23-2006, 07:21 PM
If I had them in a sim league I would've swapped them day 1. However, in the real world with ego's and whatnot involved, I simply don't see this happening, especially with Boras as Lopez's agent.

Lopez would be less valuable as a 2B than as a SS --- even given his defensive shortcomings. See Soriano, Alfonso.

pedro
05-23-2006, 07:24 PM
If I had them in a sim league I would've swapped them day 1. However, in the real world with ego's and whatnot involved, I simply don't see this happening, especially with Boras as Lopez's agent.

Lopez would be less valuable as a 2B than as a SS --- even given his defensive shortcomings. See Soriano, Alfonso.

That's really not a fair comparison b/c Lopez would probably be a good 2B.

jimbo
05-23-2006, 07:26 PM
Phillips doesn't have a much better arm then Felipe. Felipe has a really good arm, range is his problem.

I have no problem with Lopez's arm or range.......it's his bad habit of throwing errantly to first during routine plays that is maddening.

reds44
05-23-2006, 07:26 PM
If I had them in a sim league I would've swapped them day 1. However, in the real world with ego's and whatnot involved, I simply don't see this happening, especially with Boras as Lopez's agent.

Lopez would be less valuable as a 2B than as a SS --- even given his defensive shortcomings. See Soriano, Alfonso.
I don't care if it diminshed his "value". I don't want him going anywhere for along time, so his value really means jack to me.

Both guys will still be playing, Felipe will still be the best player we have, but the defense will improve.

forfreelin04
05-23-2006, 07:40 PM
I think they should stay put. Phillips and Vizquel were a helluva DP combo with Cleveland. If only for a short period of time. Not that Lopez is in the same time zone as Omar in regards to defense. But I do think Lopez should stay at short because he has already been groomed to be the next Larkin and Concepcion. (See bobblehead nights) Short is the anchor of the defense and considering Felipe has played there with some consistency in Cincinnati I think it should stay that away. However, I do feel Phillips should be there when Lopez gets a day off and Aurilla/Freel should be playing second. Maybe then we could tell if that could be a long term commitment.

RedsMan3203
05-23-2006, 07:44 PM
I've said it in the past.... I'll say it again....

I believe Lopez is a better 2nd basemen, then he is short stop.

For one, from 2nd you wouldn't have a longer throw to 1st like you do at SS. There for, gives him that split second to still get under control and make the better throw.

IF BP can play SS, and play as good D at SS as he does at 2nd. I'm game.

deltachi8
05-23-2006, 07:57 PM
I have seen Phillips play SS at Buffalo and he is very good. IMHO, this is a move that will make as big an impact defensively as moving Jr to LF. The Reds IF will get to more balls in play than they are now.

TeamBoone
05-23-2006, 08:22 PM
Not mid season.

deltachi8
05-23-2006, 08:27 PM
Not mid season.

Normally I would agree TB, however these would not be foreign positions for either one.

LexingtonRedsFan
05-23-2006, 08:27 PM
Not mid season.

2nd that

TeamBoone
05-23-2006, 08:34 PM
Normally I would agree TB, however these would not be foreign positions for either one.

Actually, neither has played each other's positions very much, in the majors anyway (Lopez 12 games at 2B; Phillips 2 games at SS). Regardless, they still need the time to fine tune their play, even in a familiar position.

Lopez played only 7 games at 2b in 2005, 2 times in 2004, and 3 times in 2003. That's it for his major league career. Perhaps he played there more in the minors; I didn't look that up.

Phillips played SS once this year and once last year. That's it for his major league career.

deltachi8
05-23-2006, 08:39 PM
No, but neither has played each other's positions in awhile. They still need the time to fine tune their play, even in a familiar position.

Lopez played only 7 games at 2b in 2005, 2 times in 2004, and 3 times in 2003. That's it for his major league career. Perhaps he played there more in the minors; I didn't look that up.

Phillips played SS once this year and once last year. That's it for his major league career.

i believe most of phillip's time in AAA last year was at SS. I understand it may be difficult, but its whats best for the team. Unless pitching arrives from on high, I dont think they are staying in this race, so I would do it this year. Maybee after the AS Break when you have an ever better feel if Phillips is real or not.

Z-Fly
05-23-2006, 11:42 PM
It doesn't seem the question is if it should happen but when it should happen. IMO I think it should happen asap. BP was kind of thrown into the second base roll and handled it well. I don't see why Felo couldn't do the same. As far as value and egos getting hurt, quit babying these guys. If it takes bringing in a big time manager (Sweet Lou) to get these guys in line, do it. It would be worth the cash. I just get so tierd of hearing 'so an so' wouldn't like that. They should happy to be in the bigs and just go where they are told and bat when they are told to bat.

big boy
05-24-2006, 12:11 AM
I recall this coming up in 2001 with Larkin and Reese. Reese had sick range so he would be much better than Larkin at short stop, right? When Larkin went down and Reese stepped in, he was not even close to Larkin. My point is that this proposed move isn't so easily done.

GridironGrace
05-24-2006, 12:14 AM
I think Phillips should get some Games at SS just so he doesnt lose the feel of playing the posistion. But he should mostly do that on days Lopez gets some rest.

It's cool to know you have to capable SS's playing in the same middle infeild though aint it? :)

TeamBoone
05-24-2006, 12:35 AM
BP was kind of thrown into the second base roll and handled it well. I don't see why Felo couldn't do the same.

I don't see where you get the idea BP was thrown into the 2b role... he played 128 games at 2B w/Cleveland (35 w/Reds) vs only 2 games at SS in his entire career (1 w/Cleveland; 1 w/Reds).

Wheelhouse
05-24-2006, 12:59 AM
Great idea. Lopez could handle the 2B throws better and the one criticism of Phillips defensively is turning the DP, which is easier than 2nd. I also think Phillips has more range than Lopez.

Highlifeman21
05-24-2006, 03:30 AM
Phillips doesn't have a much better arm then Felipe. Felipe has a really good arm, range is his problem.


Clearly you're drunk.

Phillips has much more arm and thensome than FeLo. Lopez has zero arm and no range. Phillips should have much better range than Lopez @ SS. Make this change in ST. Nice try Reds44. Perhaps you have Phillips confused with Womack.

Patrick Bateman
05-24-2006, 03:34 AM
Clearly you're drunk.

Phillips has much more arm and thensome than FeLo. Lopez has zero arm and no range. Phillips should have much better range than Lopez @ SS. Make this change in ST. Nice try Reds44. Perhaps you have Phillips confused with Womack.

Lopez actually has a pretty stong arm. His main problem is accuracy, plus the lack of range. I'm not exactly sure on Phillips' arm, but I know the range is there for SS.

And gotta say, no reason to make fun of Reds44 like that. He's a pretty intelligent poster and he has a valid point IMO.

Highlifeman21
05-24-2006, 03:42 AM
Your opinion I value and will respect, AK.

I don't think Lopez has that strong of an arm, and cleary it is inaccurate. It's no secret Lopez lacks range.

I'm not trying to call out Reds44, but he seems to be off base on some topics, particularly this one. He has some good points, but for the most part seems to be very biased with certain Reds. He needs to be more objective, IMO.

big boy
05-24-2006, 10:33 AM
I know his opinion is worthless to some here but Marty B once said Lopez would be gold glove caliber at 3rd base.

billy117
05-24-2006, 10:40 AM
Phillips has a much better arm,

that's completely incorrect, lopez has a gun throwing where he wants and oh what was that other thing oh yeah fielding ground balls are his problems

deltachi8
05-24-2006, 10:59 AM
I know his opinion is worthless to some here but Marty B once said Lopez would be gold glove caliber at 3rd base.

Not worthless, but it depends on his mood I suppose. Marty is right on that, Lopez is pretty good at 3rd...Edwin will be better though and stays at 3rd.

dabvu2498
05-24-2006, 11:07 AM
Most major league teams are very wary of players changing positions, especially in the middle of a season. In this case, I can almost guarantee it won't happen. Maybe in the off season.

RedsManRick
05-24-2006, 11:39 AM
I don't care if it diminshed his "value". I don't want him going anywhere for along time, so his value really means jack to me.

Both guys will still be playing, Felipe will still be the best player we have, but the defense will improve.

If we give him the LT contract you know he's gonna want, then it would be a concern for him. However, so long as there's a long term contract out there in the next few years, he'd be smart (personally) to do everything in his power to maximize his value.

It's not about what YOU care about. It's his career. If he wants to put up a fuss about where he plays, he will. I don't know Felipe and maybe he'd be happy to switch. Personally I think you should play where the teams asks you to play. That doesn't mean he be happy about a switch.

pedro
05-24-2006, 11:42 AM
The strength of Lopez arm isn't the problem and I am not too concerned about accurancy either as I believe that will come with time. I am more concerned about his range.

savafan
05-24-2006, 12:09 PM
I dont think they are staying in this race, so I would do it this year.

Why not? Arroyo and Harang have been a pretty consistent pitching combo so far this year. The offense is tops in the league. Is there a better offensive outfield in baseball than a healthy Kearns, Griffey and Dunn? You could conceivably get 20+ homeruns from Aurilia, Lopez and Encarnacion. The three man catching combo should do enough with the bat to not hurt too bad. Sure the bullpen looks a little sketchy, but Hammond has looked better lately. What have you seen so far that makes you think they won't stay in the race...at the least for a wild card?

As of right now, they are in the race, with a .587 winning percentage, the third best in the National League, and we are nearing the end of May. Whatever Narron is doing, it's working. I know Reds fans haven't been used to winning in quite a few years, but to look at the tone of Redszone over the last few weeks you'd think this team was right where the "experts" were predicting it'd be before the season started. Enjoy this Reds fans, we're looking at a good baseball team. We're actually watching a team that is winning more games than it is losing. For now, we should cool down a little on wanting to make everyone on the 40 man roster switch to a new position, to trade everyone who's performing well for prospects, and lampooning lineup decisions made by Jerry Narron, because it is working.

TeamBoone
05-24-2006, 12:19 PM
Great post Sava. I totally agree.

Maybe they won't end up in the race, but at this point, I can not for the life of me figure out why most have absolutely no faith in this team and have written them off already.

Thank God the team doesn't share the defeatest attitude of the board.

Shaggy Sanchez
05-24-2006, 12:39 PM
Great post Sava. I totally agree.

Maybe they won't end up in the race, but at this point, I can not for the life of me figure out why most have absolutely no faith in this team and have written them off already.

Thank God the team doesn't share the defeatest attitude of the board.

I think the last few seasons play a large part in why people don't have faith in this team keeping up ther winning ways. It would be nothing new to see this team be in the race and playing great to only falter in June and July as they have in the past. I know that Arroyo and Harang are pitching really well but this team still has a lot of questions in the BP and on defense.

I would love to see this team stay in the race all year long but I think that all of the years of losing wil make people skeptical. I think if the Reds could finish in 2nd or 3rd in the NL Central than next year the attitudes would change but until they prove people wrong they are still the team that hasn't been any good since 1999.

pedro
05-24-2006, 12:46 PM
May 24, 2004 Reds Record 26-18
May 24, 2003 Reds Record 24-25
May 24, 2002 Reds Record 28-20

I think there's plenty of room left for healthy scepticism.

savafan
05-24-2006, 12:50 PM
May 24, 2004 Reds Record 26-18
May 24, 2003 Reds Record 24-25
May 24, 2002 Reds Record 28-20

I think there's plenty of room left for healthy scepticism.

There is a huge difference between scepticism and pessimism.

TeamBoone
05-24-2006, 12:50 PM
I agree, but put it aside UNTIL THEY FALTER. Right now they're not... run with it until it happens (if it happens).

pedro
05-24-2006, 12:53 PM
There is a huge difference between scepticism and pessimism.

not when they're both couched in realism IMO. This team does not have the pitching to carry it very far. I wish that weren't how I felt, but I honestly don't think that belief makes me pessimistic.

savafan
05-24-2006, 12:55 PM
I agree, but put it aside UNTIL THEY FALTER. Right now they're not... run with it until it happens (if it happens).

Well said. :beerme:

deltachi8
05-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Why not? Arroyo and Harang have been a pretty consistent pitching combo so far this year.

So far this year is the same thing I have heard a few times this decade on thhis team. (This is not a shot at those two pitchers). I wont buy in to the rel contender stuff until July at best. There is too much season to go and too many questions regarding this teams ovrall pitching and defense.

Enjoy it certainly while it lasts and I hope it last into October, but I am just cant see that happen. Not with the way the team is constructed (pitching wise) right now.

Reds1
05-24-2006, 01:08 PM
I don't see the swap happening and I don't think it would change things that much. Now, if EE shows he can't improve then how about that swap. To me FeLo is much better on defense then EE at this point. Maybe you can swap EE, but not FeLo. Not now, but that makes more sense to me then the other, but then again I'm not manager and don't see the players up close in practice, etc. I'll let them do their jobs. I wouldn't want them doing mine. :) It's an interesting thought though.

JEA
05-24-2006, 02:33 PM
May 24, 2004 Reds Record 26-18
May 24, 2003 Reds Record 24-25
May 24, 2002 Reds Record 28-20



There are only four people from that 2002 club still on the team.

It's easy to look to the recent past and brace for the eventual collapse, but if there were ever a year to be excited and a little optimistic, this seems to be it.

registerthis
05-24-2006, 02:38 PM
not when they're both couched in realism IMO. This team does not have the pitching to carry it very far. I wish that weren't how I felt, but I honestly don't think that belief makes me pessimistic.

I will say this: the pitching staff, particularly the starting staff, is substantially better than it was during '02-'04. Not that that says much, but the Rds haven't had a 1-2 like Arroyo - harang in quite some time.

And if you're looking for optimism, the entire pitching staff overachieved in 1999. Ron Villone and Steve Parris? Somehow it worked.