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View Full Version : Gammons: Brewers have more staying power than Reds (ESPN News)



Matt700wlw
05-23-2006, 10:10 PM
He says it's because of Ben Sheets....



:bang:


The Reds doing well must absolutely pain him. The Brewers are slipping off the face of the earth
(.500 now), their bullpen isn't much to write home about, and they're getting stomped this season by the Reds at least so far this season, possibly the division.

KronoRed
05-23-2006, 10:12 PM
Sheets (when healthy) can be a difference maker

But he's rarely healthy.

Matt700wlw
05-23-2006, 10:15 PM
Sheets (when healthy) can be a difference maker

But he's rarely healthy.

I agree...but it's going to take more than that

Nugget
05-23-2006, 10:15 PM
I think you need more than Sheets to have a difference. He pitches every fourth or fifth game. If the Brewers are in free fall that's not going to make a difference.

paulrichjr
05-23-2006, 10:16 PM
I agree...but it's going to take more than that

We have Bronson and Griffey, and Dunn, and oh yea Lopez, and Harang.... I like our chances.

Matt700wlw
05-23-2006, 10:17 PM
We have Bronson and Griffey, and Dunn, and oh yea Lopez, and Harang.... I like our chances.

I like our chances BETTER than the Brewers....I'm not saying it's going to happen, but that was the question proposed.

redsfan30
05-23-2006, 10:18 PM
I heard that piece on ESPNNews, and to be fair, it's not like he said Milwaukee without a doubt.

He hesitated before he said Milwaukee and stated it was mainly just because of Sheets.

membengal
05-23-2006, 10:19 PM
Cincinnati's success will continue to annoy the ESPN talking heads...they put Cincy in their "they suck" box back in the spring, and are loathe to change their scripted talking points.

I was sold on the Brewers pre-season too...but I am quite willing now to admit I appear to have been off. Sheets is NOT healthy, Doug Davis has struggled to throw strikes all year, and the youth on that team is still costing them games in equal measure to winning them.

The other thing is...I never saw Arroyo being within 500 miles of being this good. If he stays within shouting distance of a 3.30 era by the end of the year, it goes a long way toward neutralizing the Sheets advantage. Gammons may want to re-think at some point...

kyred14
05-23-2006, 10:28 PM
Reds +18 run diff, Brewers -18.

I'll take the Reds. Wow, did I say that? They're cursed for sure.

traderumor
05-23-2006, 10:50 PM
The Brewers pitching is a bigger mess than ours right now. I would take our bullpen over theirs (faint praise, I know)

flyer85
05-23-2006, 10:51 PM
I guess we'll find out

Falls City Beer
05-23-2006, 10:55 PM
I guess we'll find out

1/3 of the games have been played between Mil and Cincy; the Reds have killed them.

The more often that happens, the likelihood of Mil. leapfrogging Cincy decreases.

remdog
05-23-2006, 11:18 PM
I love it when the Reds beat the Brew-ha-has. I still remember needing only one win in that last series in Milwaukee in '99 to make the playoffs.

Rem

TeamBoone
05-23-2006, 11:44 PM
Sheets (when healthy) can be a difference maker.

But only for one game per series... and maybe not even that if the Reds miss him in the rotation.

I'm not even sure I buy that anyway... the Reds have beaten some mighty fine pitchers already this year.

Fullboat
05-23-2006, 11:53 PM
But only for one game per series... and maybe not even that if the Reds miss him in the rotation.

I'm not even sure I buy that anyway... the Reds have beaten some mighty fine pitchers already this year.

Including Mr Sheets I believe.

RedsBaron
05-24-2006, 06:39 AM
Cincinnati's success will continue to annoy the ESPN talking heads...they put Cincy in their "they suck" box back in the spring, and are loathe to change their scripted talking points.


They never let facts stand in the way of their opinions.

oneupper
05-24-2006, 08:34 AM
Ben Sheets = Kerry Wood

lollipopcurve
05-24-2006, 08:51 AM
Cincinnati's success will continue to annoy the ESPN talking heads...they put Cincy in their "they suck" box back in the spring, and are loathe to change their scripted talking points.

As we all know, Gammons has said very little good about the Reds in years (since his buddy Bowden left). We'll see how his wisdom ages vis a vis the Reds and Brewers prediction...

I know one thing... if the Indians had fleeced the Reds for Brandon Phillips, rather than vice versa, he'd have been crowing about it nationally because Shapiro and that crew is on his cool list.

I remember when he informed the world Harang was no better than a fifth starter (predictably pronouncing the Guillen-Harang trade a steal for Beane). Silence concerning Harang's success continues...

Puffy
05-24-2006, 08:57 AM
As we all know, Gammons has said very little good about the Reds in years (since his buddy Bowden left). We'll see how his wisdom ages vis a vis the Reds and Brewers prediction...

I know one thing... if the Indians had fleeced the Reds for Brandon Phillips, rather than vice versa, he'd have been crowing about it nationally because Shapiro and that crew is on his cool list.

I remember when he informed the world Harang was no better than a fifth starter (predictably pronouncing the Guillen-Harang trade a steal for Beane). Silence concerning Harang's success continues...

Ah yes, more of the Gammons hates the Reds crap.

And if anyone on here thought Harang was anything more than a fifth starter - based on his minor league numbers and his brief major league career then you are a better person than me, cause I thought Harang was a #4 or #5 at best.

I guess i hate the Reds since Bowden left too :rolleyes:

flyer85
05-24-2006, 09:01 AM
I guess i hate the Reds since Bowden left too :rolleyes:the truth comes out. :laugh:

Falls City Beer
05-24-2006, 09:22 AM
I really think this has nothing to do with the Reds per se. I think that Gammons, along with a ton of other publications/columnists, dubbed the Brewers the new cause celebre upstart team, and they want to avoid looking terribly wishy-washy in the face of such predictions.

Such is the fate of putting your faith in teams that are perennially atrocious like the Brewers. Even when they get their hands on talent, they don't have the reinforcements to bridge injuries, or they rely too heavily on youth (Capellan) and one-hit wonders (Davis, Ohka) to throw meaningful numbers of innings. The Brewers have a nice offense (though I'm not totally sold on Weeks and Hardy), but their bullpen, just as I said at the beginning of the season, is flat and unremarkable.

lollipopcurve
05-24-2006, 09:29 AM
I really think this has nothing to do with the Reds per se.

It's no big deal, but I think he turned on the franchise when Bowden, one of his prime sources, was unceremoniously dumped. When the "firesale" took place in 2003, he almost burst veins describing the organization as a disgrace (omitting the obvious fact that teams out of the pennant race do that stuff all the time).


I think that Gammons, along with a ton of other publications/columnists, dubbed the Brewers the new cause celebre upstart team, and they want to avoid looking terribly wishy-washy in the face of such predictions.

No doubt this is true.

redsmetz
05-24-2006, 10:36 AM
I continue to say that the Brewers will do well in this division. Frankly, they're much like us when it comes to pitching. Frankly I wonder when MLB is going to wake up and figure out how to start finding and developing more pitchers. They're losing kids long before they ever even get to high school and college to become prospects. It has to be something more than all the Select teams, a place for kids to play ball into high school that's just regular games. They're losing out to Soccer and Basketball big time.

Falls City Beer
05-24-2006, 11:48 AM
I continue to say that the Brewers will do well in this division. .

Their future looks good, but in order to perform this season, they're going to have to get healthy and stay healthy the rest of the way.

OldXOhio
05-24-2006, 01:02 PM
It's no big deal, but I think he turned on the franchise when Bowden, one of his prime sources, was unceremoniously dumped. When the "firesale" took place in 2003, he almost burst veins describing the organization as a disgrace (omitting the obvious fact that teams out of the pennant race do that stuff all the time).

As much as he disliked the Bowden firing, it was the firesale that set him off. And while teams out of contention do tend to sell off parts at the deadline, the initial feeling among many when it began was the Reds FO was more interested in receiving financial compensation than talent that may eventually improve the team. However, I think Gammons venom towards the Reds largely went away when the new ownership group took over.

OldXOhio
05-24-2006, 01:05 PM
I continue to say that the Brewers will do well in this division.

Agreed - and unless some of their players have been lost for the season, you probably have to work off the premise that they're coming back at some point before September. It may end up being a big if, but in May, the potential still exists for that team to live up to expectation.

Falls City Beer
05-24-2006, 01:10 PM
Agreed - and unless some of their players have been lost for the season, you probably have to work off the premise that they're coming back at some point before September. It may end up being a big if, but in May, the potential still exists for that team to live up to expectation.

I'd agree with you if the Brewers were a team used to winning. But they're more likely to be a self-fulfilling prophecy than a miracle club at this point.

I'd be prepping for next year if I were the Brewers.

NJReds
05-24-2006, 01:17 PM
It's no big deal, but I think he turned on the franchise when Bowden, one of his prime sources, was unceremoniously dumped. When the "firesale" took place in 2003, he almost burst veins describing the organization as a disgrace (omitting the obvious fact that teams out of the pennant race do that stuff all the time).

I remember that. After the Guillen trade he was waiving around a $20 bill on the Baseball Tonight frothing at the mouth, saying the Reds were only interested in cash.

Last night he praised the Reds for taking chances and bringing in players like Harang.

Go figure.

registerthis
05-24-2006, 01:23 PM
Last night he praised the Reds for taking chances and bringing in players like Harang.

Go figure.

Gammons is entitled to change his opinion, just like we are. I remember a lot of people around here were none too thrilled with the firesale when it happened, either.

NJReds
05-24-2006, 02:02 PM
Gammons is entitled to change his opinion, just like we are. I remember a lot of people around here were none too thrilled with the firesale when it happened, either.

He was over the top that year, IMO. But yes, he's entitled to change his opinions. And most of the time I agreed with him that the former ownership and GM were pathetic.

Reds1
05-24-2006, 03:11 PM
Gammons did say last night what a joy it was to watch Griffey play the OF. I actually always though Gammons was ok on the Reds. I mean we stunk for years. We were lucky to get any face time, but lately we're on every night. If it wasn't for Detroit it would be even more.

Strikes Out Looking
05-24-2006, 03:16 PM
The Reds will finish higher than the Brewers as long as they have a special assistant named Dan O'Brien.

guttle11
05-24-2006, 03:19 PM
The Reds will finsih higher than the Brewers as long as they have a special assistant named Dan O'Brien.

He sure is special...

membengal
05-24-2006, 03:33 PM
Gammons is entitled to change his opinion, just like we are. I remember a lot of people around here were none too thrilled with the firesale when it happened, either.

No question. But I would respect him a lot more if he would note something like "hey, I killed them back in 2003 for this, but Harang has been far better than I thought he would be and the Reds have benefited"...matter of fact, that would make me enjoy his analysis even more, whether it was about the Reds or any other team.

Having a strong opinion? No problem. Pretending, after facts are in when you were wrong in your previous opinion that the previous opinion in fact did not exist? Less OK.

Here would be a fun exercise for the national types...WHY are the Reds confounding their expectations, maybe spend a minute or two on it, that's all. Won't be too hard.

Perhaps the team won't keep it up, many of us, including myself, believe that to still be the case, and yet, have had to admit that the team has far exceeded expectations so far. The reasons for that are rather interesting, actually.

And, props to whoever up thread noted that if the Phillips thing had happened in reverse that the carcass of Reds executives would be hanging from every Gammons column and piece. Cleveland really screwed up with him. Even if he regresses at this point, Cincy has gotten a rather stout bit of production from Phillips, both offensively and defensively, for absolutely nothing. Pretty feckin' brilliant, actually.

westofyou
05-24-2006, 03:38 PM
http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/gam.gif

KronoRed
05-24-2006, 03:39 PM
The Reds will finsih higher than the Brewers as long as they have a special assistant named Dan O'Brien.
Dan O curses teams.

TRF
05-24-2006, 03:42 PM
I was thrilled with the trade for Harang. In Fact I was thrilled with the Boone and Williamson trades too. Still am. Which is odd because despite the fact that Arroyo is pitching ver well, I wasn't too happy about that one, and continue to think the Reds should have gotten more.

GAC
05-24-2006, 07:42 PM
Aren't the Brewers looking at Dave Williams?

Nuff said.

And what ex-Reds GM now works for the Brewers? ;)

registerthis
05-25-2006, 09:52 AM
http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/gam.gif

Frightening how much he looks like England Dan in that caricature.

Or is it John Ford Coley?

smith288
05-25-2006, 09:56 AM
http://www.deadballart.com/redszone/gam.gif
Im of the school who thinks Gammons should rock that sweet 'stache again.