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View Full Version : Teams looking at Dave Williams!



schroomytunes
05-24-2006, 01:05 AM
Saw on cbssportsline that the mets and brewers are looking at trying to acquire him. Based on the remainder of his salary and his dismal performance I know we aint gonna get a whole lot in return. So if I'm Krivsky here's my offer:


1)reds trade Dave Williams to the Mets for 28yr old reliever Heath Bell who's in AAA at the moment. Williams moves into the 5th spot in the Mets rotation and Bell takes the spot of Rick White.

2) Reds trade Williams to the Brewers for 25yr old RHP Chris Demaria who has bounced back and forth between AAA and the Brewers. Demaria then joins our AAA staff and maybe gets a shot at middle relief or 5th starter in Sept.

IMHO I would rather have Bell from the Mets, the Mets seem to not have high regards for him and are in desperate need of a starter, and he is relatively cheap for them, and Bell would give us a good 6-7th inning guy to team up with Coffey and allow us to cut bait on Rick White. Thoughts?

butlerbulldogs
05-24-2006, 09:08 AM
i will be estatic, if we just give him away, and not have to pay his salary

Heath
05-24-2006, 09:09 AM
Anybody named Heath has to have talent....... :D

oneupper
05-24-2006, 09:12 AM
I hope we trade Williams, but don't face him afterwards. He's exactly the kind of pitcher (left handed junk thrower) that gives us trouble.

flyer85
05-24-2006, 09:14 AM
I hope he's in drag

Roy Tucker
05-24-2006, 09:28 AM
So, just what exactly did happen to Dave Williams?

When the Reds got him, I thought he would be a fairly decent #4 starter. But by all appearances and observations, his velocity and stuff have been sub-par since ST.

Was DanO just fleeced on the deal and Williams' talent this year is what it was last year and he just isn't very good?

Or did something happen to him (injury, lack of conditioning, dog died, etc.) during the off-season?

The fact that they DFA'ed him seems to indicate #1. I would think if he had some kind of injury or conditioning/strength problem, they would have optioned him to AAA and get him back into MLB-ready shape.

oneupper
05-24-2006, 09:39 AM
The fact that they DFA'ed him seems to indicate #1. I would think if he had some kind of injury or conditioning/strength problem, they would have optioned him to AAA and get him back into MLB-ready shape.

I think they can still do that. IIRC D'angelo Jimenex was DFA'd first before being shipped off to Chattanooga.

Krusty
05-24-2006, 10:02 AM
So, just what exactly did happen to Dave Williams?

When the Reds got him, I thought he would be a fairly decent #4 starter. But by all appearances and observations, his velocity and stuff have been sub-par since ST.

Was DanO just fleeced on the deal and Williams' talent this year is what it was last year and he just isn't very good?

Or did something happen to him (injury, lack of conditioning, dog died, etc.) during the off-season?

The fact that they DFA'ed him seems to indicate #1. I would think if he had some kind of injury or conditioning/strength problem, they would have optioned him to AAA and get him back into MLB-ready shape.

Was DanO just fleeced on the deal and Williams' talent this year is what it was last year and he just isn't very good?

Dan O'Brien was clueless as a GM.

Marc D
05-24-2006, 10:13 AM
Was DanO just fleeced on the deal and Williams' talent this year is what it was last year and he just isn't very good?

Dan O'Brien was clueless as a GM.

Given Dan O's track record (Milton, Ortiz) I'd say a good old fashioned fleecing is the most likely scenario. Although it does make me wonder, I mean Williams has never been good but he was never THIS bad. Seems to have hit an all time low in the velocity department and that usually means an injury but again, Dan O has a history of collecting damaged goods.

M2
05-24-2006, 10:23 AM
Williams was banged up (again) at the end of the 2005 season. On top of that, he never had anything more than borderline stuff to begin with.

When the Reds traded for him I thought the club was jumping into a perfect of bad pitching and Williams fully lived up to that profile. Basically he lost a little bit off the little bit he had (which wasn't going to be enough) and now he's an arsonist.

flyer85
05-24-2006, 10:35 AM
Williams was banged up (again) at the end of the 2005 season. On top of that, he never had anything more than borderline stuff to begin with.

When the Reds traded for him I thought the club was jumping into a perfect of bad pitching and Williams fully lived up to that profile. Basically he lost a little bit off the little bit he had (which wasn't going to be enough) and now he's an arsonist.also Pittsburgh had no need for Dave Williams after 2005. They have a lot of young guys they were going to go with(Duke, Maholm, Snell) and Williams was a useless spare part. I truly hope DanO didn't pass on the chance to acquire a younger guy because he really wanted Williams.

M2
05-24-2006, 11:40 AM
also Pittsburgh had no need for Dave Williams after 2005. They have a lot of young guys they were going to go with(Duke, Maholm, Snell) and Williams was a useless spare part. I truly hope DanO didn't pass on the chance to acquire a younger guy because he really wanted Williams.

You never know. Man do I wish he'd have insisted on Gorzelanny though.

flyer85
05-24-2006, 11:42 AM
You never know. Man do I wish he'd have insisted on Gorzelanny though.Heck, I would have settled for Snell who I think could turn into a very good reliever. Williams was flotsam, thats why the Rats were more than happy to unload him.

PickOff
05-24-2006, 11:50 AM
i will be estatic, if we just give him away, and not have to pay his salary

That's exactly how I felt about Casey and his $8,500,000 salary. I don't think Williams $1,400,000 will buy the Reds much, however.

HotCorner
05-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Anyone find it ironic that Milwaukee has interest in him? DanO must really love this guy. It's bordering on "man crush" territory. ;)

Rojo
05-24-2006, 02:51 PM
If they can't get rid of him, then they should make him the LOOGY.

CTA513
05-24-2006, 02:53 PM
The fact that they DFA'ed him seems to indicate #1. I would think if he had some kind of injury or conditioning/strength problem, they would have optioned him to AAA and get him back into MLB-ready shape.

I think they DFA'ed him to see if any teams would want to trade for him.
If nobody wants him Im pretty sure they can still option him to AAA within a certian time period.

Danny Serafini
05-24-2006, 03:09 PM
Once you've been DFA'ed you're removed from the 40 man roster, so the option becomes irrelevant. He'll have to go through waivers and be sent outright to Louisville if the Reds wish to keep him in the system.

Heath
05-24-2006, 03:09 PM
I think they DFA'ed him to see if any teams would want to trade for him.
If nobody wants him Im pretty sure they can still option him to AAA within a certian time period.

It might be surprising what WayneK can get out of Dave Williams. He is a pitcher, left-handed, and breathing. Just because he's Jose Lima in a mirror is confusing the facts with my story.

Reds1
05-24-2006, 03:10 PM
I hope we trade Williams, but don't face him afterwards. He's exactly the kind of pitcher (left handed junk thrower) that gives us trouble.

I think in previous years that's the case, but this team is a bit different. Just seems to me the junk may hold us off a few innings, but then we break out. I did think we'd hit the guy we faced last night better, but we did finally get to him. That junk stuff can be good to have one. Like Hammonds. He throws what 82 MPH, but lately his unhitable. I know what you are saying though. In the past we had trouble against those guys and then would hit the ace. Go figure.

oneupper
05-24-2006, 03:39 PM
Once you've been DFA'ed you're removed from the 40 man roster, so the option becomes irrelevant. He'll have to go through waivers and be sent outright to Louisville if the Reds wish to keep him in the system.

Well...doesn't whoever picks him up on waivers have to pick his salary?

KronoRed
05-24-2006, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't hold out hope we get anything for him, and that's ok..because the real gift was getting him out of the rotation.

Danny Serafini
05-24-2006, 04:34 PM
Well...doesn't whoever picks him up on waivers have to pick his salary?

If someone claimed him then yes, they'd have to pay it all.

Mario-Rijo
05-24-2006, 05:50 PM
The Mets have to be interested by the fact that the one good outing he did have just so happens to be against the biggest divisional foe at the moment (Phillies). And a good hitting foe at that! I would rather deal him to The Mets, but I gotta get something resembling a decent BP arm even if I would have to deal them another part or 2.

cincyinco
05-24-2006, 06:04 PM
You never know. Man do I wish he'd have insisted on Gorzelanny though.

Man that would have been his best deal ever... and it would have been a steal. This is exactly what I said after I heard we traded with pitts and got Williams.. I said, where is Gorzelanny?

Kid is way underrated.

cincyinco
05-24-2006, 06:05 PM
I think in previous years that's the case, but this team is a bit different. Just seems to me the junk may hold us off a few innings, but then we break out. I did think we'd hit the guy we faced last night better, but we did finally get to him. That junk stuff can be good to have one. Like Hammonds. He throws what 82 MPH, but lately his unhitable. I know what you are saying though. In the past we had trouble against those guys and then would hit the ace. Go figure.

Man.. Hammond was dropping 64mph change ups when I watched him pitch at coors.. I dont think he threw one fastball all night.

Mario-Rijo
05-24-2006, 06:13 PM
Nothing to Lohse
May 22 - There is a much better chance of temporary Triple-A pitcher Kyle Lohse being traded than returning to the Twins, the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle reports. Minnesota could get a decent hitter from a team in dire need of a durable starting pitcher who would benefit from a change of scenery.

How about this deal Williams for Lohse? they are both 27 and neither has an awful past both seem to be durable w/ ok BB/K ratio's. Lohse makes quite a bit more @ 3.95 mil in '06. Could there be some middle ground for both Kriv and Ryan?

Heath
05-24-2006, 06:20 PM
How about this deal Williams for Lohse? they are both 27 and neither has an awful past both seem to be durable w/ ok BB/K ratio's. Lohse makes quite a bit more @ 3.95 mil in '06. Could there be some middle ground for both Kriv and Ryan?

What's Lohse's FlyBall/GroundBall Ratio - IIRC, Lohse has a propensity to keep balls up and straight which isn't great.

Maybe you stick him in the 5th spot, tell him its his and let him figure it out. If he doesn't, have fun in Louisville joining his old buddies May and Mays.

Mario-Rijo
05-24-2006, 06:39 PM
Career:
1205 GB's
1192 FB's
1.01 ratio.

M2
05-24-2006, 06:50 PM
Man.. Hammond was dropping 64mph change ups when I watched him pitch at coors.. I dont think he threw one fastball all night.

That was his fastball.

Chip R
05-24-2006, 11:59 PM
They could have optioned Williams to LOU but it appears like they wanted the 40 man spot. If he gets claimed or traded, oh happy day. If not, they can keep him at LOU.

I really, really would have liked to have seen DanO get a minor league arm from PIT if Williams was the best he could do as far as major league talent goes. And I think that played into DanOs thinking. He knew he would get crucified for trading Casey but if he got a major league pitcher back in the deal, he could save some face.

schroomytunes
05-25-2006, 12:01 AM
The brewers DFA'd Justin lehr, I wonder if Krivsky is looking at this guy. Also the Blue Jays sent down Russ Adams and Josh Towers to AAA, so I wonder if they could be had. Not sure about this proposal but I want some ideas about this one.

reds trade: dave williams to the brewers

brewers trade: justin lehr and a pitching prospect to the Reds.

thoughts?

TOBTTReds
05-25-2006, 02:51 AM
The brewers DFA'd Justin lehr, I wonder if Krivsky is looking at this guy. Also the Blue Jays sent down Russ Adams and Josh Towers to AAA, so I wonder if they could be had. Not sure about this proposal but I want some ideas about this one.

reds trade: dave williams to the brewers

brewers trade: justin lehr and a pitching prospect to the Reds.

thoughts?

Speaking to a member very near (or in Brews) organization the other day. He said "He just sucks," speaking about Lehr. Based on that I say no.