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View Full Version : Merged: Comfortable with Claussen? / Anybody Disappointed With Brandon Claussen?



RadfordVA
05-24-2006, 05:50 AM
I like others on here have stated thinks tonights game would be huge to get a sweep. Claussen is on the mound tonight and I always feel really comfortable with Claussen on the mound. Something about the way he pitches just makes feel that he is going to make the other team earn what ever they get. Even though his stats are middle of the road. I was curious what everyone elses feelings are on the current pitchers. Im not talking about stats just the feeling you have right before the game. You know that sick feeling you use to get before Jimmy Haynes starts. Well here is my order.

1)Harang- looks like he has really figured it out, never gets wild
2)Claussen
3)Arroyo- I know most probably have him higher but I keep thinking that as the teams see his breaking balls more the will figure him out. Even though in his second starts he has been even tougher against hitters
4)Ramirez- Great composure, love how good he is at fielding his position
5)Milton- The only guy I do not feel comfortable with at all. Too many fly balls too pitch at gabp.

Considering I feel comfortable with 4 out of 5 now that williams is gone that is a huge upgrade from a couple years ago when Paul Wilson was the only guy I looked forward to. Interested to see others rankings

Redhook
05-24-2006, 07:02 AM
I like others on here have stated thinks tonights game would be huge to get a sweep. Claussen is on the mound tonight and I always feel really comfortable with Claussen on the mound. Something about the way he pitches just makes feel that he is going to make the other team earn what ever they get. Even though his stats are middle of the road. I was curious what everyone elses feelings are on the current pitchers. Im not talking about stats just the feeling you have right before the game. You know that sick feeling you use to get before Jimmy Haynes starts. Well here is my order.

1)Harang- looks like he has really figured it out, never gets wild
2)Claussen
3)Arroyo- I know most probably have him higher but I keep thinking that as the teams see his breaking balls more the will figure him out. Even though in his second starts he has been even tougher against hitters
4)Ramirez- Great composure, love how good he is at fielding his position
5)Milton- The only guy I do not feel comfortable with at all. Too many fly balls too pitch at gabp.

Considering I feel comfortable with 4 out of 5 now that williams is gone that is a huge upgrade from a couple years ago when Paul Wilson was the only guy I looked forward to. Interested to see others rankings

I agree partially. I have much more faith in the staff too. However, I would put Arroyo ahead of Harang, just barely. Harang has had a couple of bad starts where Arroyo has had only one bad start, if you can even call it that. I think they're both great.

We differ on Claussen though. Claussen is a roller coaster. One decent start, one great, one horrible, one decent, great, horrible. I wish he'd just pitch decent most of the time. I think he'll get better, but I definitely don't feel comfortable with him out there. In most games he pitches well only to allow one 'big' inning. It happens way too much. Plus tonight he goes against the Brewers...remember last time he pitched against them? Home run derby. Plus his career against the Brewers is brutal:

"Claussen vs. the Brewers: In an April 22 start at Miller Park, Claussen allowed nine earned runs on eight hits - four of those home runs - over three innings. He is 1-5 with an 8.27 ERA in nine career starts against Milwaukee." - The Cincinnati Enquirer

So, I'm not comfortable with Claussen. Milton, no way. Ramirez....almost a yes. I like him.

redhawkfish
05-24-2006, 07:22 AM
Claussen still struggles with his command at times, but I think he has a tremendous upside and the Reds should be patient with him. I also am confident for tonight's game, but also remember some awful games Claussen has had against the Brewers.

billy117
05-24-2006, 07:39 AM
I don't know if "comfortable" is exactly the word i would use to describe how i feel when claussen is on the mound. but like others have said i think he can be a solid consistent pitcher hopefully sooner rather than later (or never).

Ltlabner
05-24-2006, 07:58 AM
I had hoped Claussen would have taken that mysterious "next step" this year. Herrang seems to have taken it, but Claussen hasn't. He may even have taken a step backwards. His controll this year seems to be a real issue for him (that is my perception, I haven't looked at any stats). It seems like he is going deep in the count and getting behind in the count frequently. He's been able to get away with it some nights (once against the Marlins his pitching line was good but all night he was 3-2, 2-2, 3-1) while other nights it has cost him.

He get's himself in a hole then the batter gets the better of him. Or he just doesn't locate his pitch and it becomes a long-ball. Or he is able to pull off decent numbers but is out of the game by the 5th. With the state of our bullpen this year, that's not something you want to see happen often.

I think he can be great, but he needs to figure out his controll issues or he'll continue to be "roller coaster man".

Herrang and Aurroyo are fine. Solid guys that you can count on. Occasonal tough games, but they are "thinking pitchers" and battle through, even when they don't have there best stuff.

I like the Lizzard. It's too early to tell but it does seem to have pulled himself together this year (unlike last year where he showed signs of promise then impoded). If he is pitching like this to the AS break and beyond then we may have found a good #3/#4 guy. I think him being successfull is one of the key's to the success of the staff.

Milton is the other Key. Lifetime he's nothing but decent. 2005 - the numbers make you want to barf. I like his work ethic and that he goes out night after night without complaint or excuse...but that doesn't win you any games. He put up 2 strong outings (I saw one at GABP and he was fooling the batters all night long) but that's a very small sampling. He showed signs of life last year too. If he can put up decent numbers, and keep us in games most of the time, and make it beyond the 5th with regularlity, we'll be fine. If he regesses into 2005 Milton we are in a heap of big doo doo. Then BC and The Kriv will have be on the phones to anybody and everybody trying to move him because they don't want to eat the contract I refer to as "DanO's shame".

Wilson...he's dissapeared. My guess is he's done. Don't know about his contract...will be be eating it?

Who's that other broken down guy DanO brought to town. Grant Balfour or something? He's the guy that was so injured that it would be until after the AS break before he could pitch. It's a long shot but maybe he could be a middle reliever type once he returns? I don't know squat about him and haven't taken the time to look. May have to do that later today.

REDSEER
05-24-2006, 09:06 AM
At times it is easy to tell with Claussen on what kind of night he is going to have. If he is hitting the outside corner with his fastball and locating his changeup, most of the time things will be looking good for the game. When Claussen is good, he's great, but when he's bad.....it might be best to turn the channel, because things like Milwaukee's 5 HR's in an inning are possible.

I really like how Ramirez might not have his best stuff on a given night (last night), but still find a way to grind it out. It's too bad he hasn't had any run support until last night nor defense.

Harang and Arroyo......there's not much to say. They are holding down this staff when things aren't going so well.

Milton, I believe, is the key to this entire season. If we can squeeze 10-12 wins out of him, then I think this team can make a run at the wildcard. We need Milton to be healthy and pitch like he did in his Minnesota years.

Guacarock
05-24-2006, 11:47 AM
Eliminate the disastrous April 22 start against Milwaukee, and Claussen would have an ERA right around 3.65. In other words, while he doesn't have Harang's ability to KO batters or Arroyo's dominance, Claussen has emerged as a decent, reliable pitcher for us. Give him a little run support, and he'll win more often than not.

Redseer is right. We can stay in the hunt for the wildcard if Milton can turn things around. Vast improvement isn't necessary from him and also unlikely. But instead of his 2005 record of 8-15, 6.47 ERA, it would be ideal if he could push closer to his 2004 ERA of 4.75, and perhaps win 10-12. Could happen. Or then again...

Big Daddy P
05-24-2006, 04:18 PM
I think Milty is well done toast. He's done. Finished.

If he finishes with an ERA below 5.25, I'll eat a dozen of his worthless baseball cards!

Claussen. Barely serviceable. He needs to improve a lot to be a consistent MLB pitcher. His pickles are pretty good though!

paulrichjr
05-24-2006, 06:38 PM
I like the Lizzard. It's too early to tell but it does seem to have pulled himself together this year (unlike last year where he showed signs of promise then impoded). If he is pitching like this to the AS break and beyond then we may have found a good #3/#4 guy. I think him being successfull is one of the key's to the success of the staff.

Who's that other broken down guy DanO brought to town. Grant Balfour or something? He's the guy that was so injured that it would be until after the AS break before he could pitch. It's a long shot but maybe he could be a middle reliever type once he returns? I don't know squat about him and haven't taken the time to look. May have to do that later today.


That would be Lizard...the guy you liked.

RedsManRick
05-24-2006, 06:41 PM
Claussen strikes me a classic dependable back of the rotation guy. He's not much of a threat to shut the other guys down, but he's not going to completely implode on you either. On a good day you'll get 7 IP, 2 ER. On a bad day you'll get 5 IP, 5 ER.

flyer85
05-24-2006, 07:06 PM
Watch tonight, historically the Brewers have lit him up.

JohhnyBench1001
05-24-2006, 07:50 PM
Watch tonight, historically the Brewers have lit him up.


Trying to pull off your best Madam Chloe routine flyer???:D He's been fairly bad so far tonight.

REDSEER
05-24-2006, 07:58 PM
This is just one of those nights where a pitcher needs to focus on locating his pitches. Claussen is not the type of pitcher who can bring his "B" stuff and still shut down the opposing team. Runs might be needed tonight, and I mean 7+, probably. With Claussen pitching the way he is and probably no Coffey out of the bullpen, I don't like the outlook of this game.

Spring~Fields
05-24-2006, 10:19 PM
Sometimes I wonder if he would be more effective in the bullpen for one to three innings instead of in the starting role.

captainmorgan07
05-24-2006, 10:20 PM
Sometimes I wonder if he would be more effective in the bullpen for one to three innings instead of in the starting role.
me 2 but he's inconsistent at starting what would he be like in the pen

Krusty
05-25-2006, 09:06 AM
Maybe I had higher expectations for this guy when we got him from the New York Yankees for Aaron Boone. I thought he would developed into a number 1 or 2 type pitcher. Instead it looks like he is more of a 4 or 5 pitcher for a starting rotation.

Were the Reds smitten by the NY hype for one of their prospects?

flyer85
05-25-2006, 09:08 AM
Were the Reds smitten by the NY hype for one of their prospects?I don't know about the Reds but it looks like you were. ;)

RedFanAlways1966
05-25-2006, 09:13 AM
Very frustrated. He had me believing after last year. I keep hoping this is just a funk he is in.... but I am starting to believe less-and-less. I am starting to wonder if he has the stuff to be a consistent ML pitcher.

:confused:

Newman4
05-25-2006, 09:14 AM
Well, after Tommy John surgery he's not the same guy. I was at the game last night and watched him previously this year and others, and he just has average stuff nowadays. 88 mph fastball, more or less a "slurve" type breaking ball that's not sharp and a changeup that he doesn't throw much because he can't locate it. Check out this old Yankees prospect report on his from 2002 and see if this is the same guy after surgery:

Brandon Claussen -- LHP -- All-Star: No lefthander dominated like Claussen did in 2001, as he went 14-4 with a 2.31 ERA between Class A and AA and led the minor leagues with 220 strikeouts in 187 innings.

The 22-year-old Claussen, a draft-and follow from the 1997 draft, dedicated himself to the game after his father passed away last off season. He tore through Class A Tampa (56 IP, 69 SO, 13 BB) and finished the season by going 9-2 with a 2.13 ERA in 21 starts for Class AA Norwich. Claussen then closed his campaign by fanning 11 batters over eight innings in his lone playoff start.

Claussen complements a 94 mile-per-hour cut fastball with a curveball and changeup. According to at least one Eastern League source, Claussen was the league's best southpaw last season.

flyer85
05-25-2006, 09:17 AM
Claussen could take a lesson from Davis as they have very similar stuff. Davis is very dependent on his offspeed pitches whereas Claussen seems to go through periods every game where he falls in love with his fastball which is what causes most of his trouble.

Claussen has very marginal stuff and if he is to have success it will be built on the ability to command his pitches and keep hitters off balance. Can he do it consistently? I don't know but I do know that the elevated HR rate is a major problem.

smith288
05-25-2006, 09:40 AM
Tommy John surgey changed him as a pitcher... He basically has to learn how to be a different pitcher though I dont know if he knows that yet.

redsfan30
05-25-2006, 10:09 AM
I still hold out hope for him, mainly because of what Smith said above. If he figures out that he needs to be a pitcher instead of a thrower, he can still be effective. Not the top of the rotation guy I thought he was going to be, but effective still.

TeamBoone
05-25-2006, 11:17 AM
Ya gotta give the guy credit for placing the blame on himself.


05-25-2006

Rough night for Claussen
Starter hard on himself after loss
By Josh Katzowitz / Post staff reporter

Milwaukee started the damage against Reds left-hander Brandon Claussen Wednesday night, beating him up for the second time in 32 days and handing him his fifth loss of the season.

Claussen wasn't much nicer later, castigating himself before a throng of media in the clubhouse.

He wasn't at his peak performance during the Brewers' 6-2 win, and Claussen had no problem telling that to anybody within earshot.

"It was brutal, man," said Claussen, who fell to 3-5 on the season after allowing seven hits and five runs in six innings. "I started the game off bad. I credit the loss completely to me. I never got into a rhythm out there. I just ... I stunk. I'm not going to lie to you."

The first two innings were especially painful for Claussen.

He walked Brewers leadoff hitter Rickie Weeks in the first and allowed a double to Jeff Cirillo during the next at-bat to score the speedy second baseman. Cirillo eventually scored on a Prince Fielder sacrifice fly.

In the second inning, Milwaukee catcher Damian Miller snapped a 0-for-13 slump with a double, moved to third on Brady Clark's single and scored when left-hander Doug Davis dropped an awkward sacrifice bunt.

Almost immediately, the Reds were in a 3-0 hole.

"The first two innings, I went out there and pitched scared, to be honest with you," Claussen said. "I was trying to be too fine with the ball. I was trying to force it in there, and when that happens, you leave the ball over the middle of the plate. Against a team like that, that's probably pretty confident against me, I just didn't get the job done."

If the Brewers are super-confident against Claussen, they'd have good reason.

On April 22, Claussen lasted only three-plus innings before surrendering eight hits - four of which were home runs - and nine runs in an 11-0 loss.

It's been like this most of his career against the Brewers. In his first career start vs. Milwaukee on July 20, 2004, he scored a 6-2 win. In nine starts since, he's 0-6 with a 9.15 ERA.

"It's not Milwaukee," Claussen said. "It's a couple guys in their lineup. I really feel like I make bad pitches to certain hitters on that team, and I just cannot do that."

Brewers leftfielder Carlos Lee proved why in the fifth.

After Claussen retired the first two batters of the inning, he hit Geoff Jenkins with a pitch. Against Lee, he left a pitch in the strike zone, and Lee deposited it in the left field bleachers.

"I feel like sometimes I'm my own worst enemy," Claussen said. "I go out there and try to be too fine. I know they're looking for consistency out of me. Trust me, I'm trying to be consistent."

Cincinnati's hitting struggled throughout the game as well.

Facing Davis' deliberate delivery, the Reds managed six hits overall and a solo home run from Austin Kearns. After leftfielder Cody Ross' near home run loaded the bases with no outs in the third inning, the Reds could muster just one run.

It gave Davis a chance to stay in the game.

"We don't seem to hit Doug Davis well, and I think it's a rhythm thing," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "He works extremely slow, and he throws a lot of pitches. He has such a slow delivery that I think our guys get settled in too early against him. It seemed like the entire game was slow to be honest with you."

Third baseman Edwin Encarnacion, who's hitting .091 (1-for-11) against Davis lifetime, agreed with that assessment.

"Sometimes when you're waiting for him, he sits right there and doesn't move," Encarnacion said. "Sometimes that makes you jump too much. It's frustrating. But every team has to make adjustments. You have to be patient."

The same way Narron says he has to be tolerant with Claussen

"We're looking for a good stretch out of him," Narron said. "We know he's capable of throwing good outings consecutively. We're looking for it. We're begging for it. We're doing everything we can to be patient."
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060525/SPT05/605250322/1027

vic715
05-25-2006, 11:20 AM
I'm not ready to give up on him yet but I wouldn't have thrown Williams to the wolves just yet either.( I would have sent him down)If you take away those two Starts against the Brewers his numbers aren't all that bad.

RANDY IN INDY
05-25-2006, 12:01 PM
I had higher hopes for Claussen than what he has performed. Needs a big ballpark to pitch the majority of his games to be successful at this point in his career and it would help if he were surrounded by some power arms. Would really benefit from the tutelage of a Tom Glavine or Greg Maddux. If he is successful, I would think that it is going to be somewhere besides Cincinnati. Could learn a few things from Chris Hammond, regarding the change up. That kind of pitch could put him back on the track. One can still hope that he will "get it" but I'm not extremely optimistic for him right now.

Kc61
05-25-2006, 12:05 PM
I would give Claussen more time.

alexad
05-25-2006, 12:16 PM
I actually think he would better served in the bullpen. But as i say that, he usually gives up most of his runs in the first few innings.

I guess Time is what he needs, but the question is do we have enough time to wait on him.

Highlifeman21
05-25-2006, 12:59 PM
I actually think he would better served in the bullpen. But as i say that, he usually gives up most of his runs in the first few innings.

I guess Time is what he needs, but the question is do we have enough time to wait on him.

We should have all the time in the world for this guy. Realistically, no one picked the Reds to contend/compete this year, and that's a luxury for this ballclub. If they do falter later in the season, then they have all the time in the world for the younger guys getting some experience.

If we were pegged to win the Central, then I would say no, Claussen maybe does need some bullpen time, but if we contend for the Central or compete for the Wild Card, then we're a feel good story.

The biggest problem I see with Claussen, well 2 really, would be his lack of focus that results in HRs, and that he doesn't have overpowering stuff yet is convinced he still does.

Take a page out of Tom Glavine's book, Brandon.

jimbo
05-25-2006, 02:00 PM
"The first two innings, I went out there and pitched scared, to be honest with you..."

This is the type of comment that come from Claussen that really bothers me. A few starts ago after he got shelled he made a comment something like "....it's no big deal, tomorrow everything will be okay."

How can a major league pitcher such as Claussen, who has a decent amount of starts, actually pitch "scared?" This just boggles my mind. I have some serious doubts about this guy and am not at all comfortable when he pitches. I think he is soft and will have trouble becoming the pitcher he could because he lacks the fire and determination. It's unfortunate because he has all the tools, I just question whether he has the right mentality.

DeadRedinCT
05-25-2006, 02:26 PM
Food for thought:

Claussen (2006)

v. Brewers 14.00 ERA, 2.22 WHIP, 5.00 HR/9, 7.00 K/9, 1.40 K/BB (9.0 IP)
v. everyone else 3.65 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, 1.28 HR/9, 6.75 K/9, 2.85 K/BB (49.1 IP)


Claussen (career)

v. Brewers 8.18 ERA, 1.88 WHIP, 2.47 HR/9, 7.42 K/9, 1.50 K/BB (47.1 IP)
v. everyone else 4.14 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 1.19 HR/9, 6.34 K/9, 2.07 K/BB (250.0 IP)


Why does Claussen have problems with the Brewers, but is decent versus every other team?

GitRDunn
05-25-2006, 03:50 PM
I am... check out my post.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46558

Caveat Emperor
05-26-2006, 03:10 AM
Who's that other broken down guy DanO brought to town. Grant Balfour or something? He's the guy that was so injured that it would be until after the AS break before he could pitch. It's a long shot but maybe he could be a middle reliever type once he returns? I don't know squat about him and haven't taken the time to look. May have to do that later today.

Per Rotoworld:
Grant Balfour (shoulder) threw 20 pitches during extended spring training batting practice on Tuesday.

"He felt good and had no complaints," Reds head trainer Mark Mann said. Balfour is expected to be healthy enough to pitch at Triple-A by the All-Star break and could be with the Reds by August.

Crash Davis
06-06-2006, 08:31 PM
Per Rotoworld:
Grant Balfour (shoulder) threw 20 pitches during extended spring training batting practice on Tuesday.

"He felt good and had no complaints," Reds head trainer Mark Mann said. Balfour is expected to be healthy enough to pitch at Triple-A by the All-Star break and could be with the Reds by August.

Has anybody seen an update on Balfour's progress since this one? Thanks.

Ltlabner
06-07-2006, 11:44 AM
Claussen certinally hasn't done himself any favors with his performance thus far. The short term problem is, who would take his spot. They seem to have confidence with Mayes, but I don't think they can catch the "Brandon Phillips in a Bottle" luck twice, can they?

He's been a decent pitcher, but never spectacular and there isn't much reason to think he ever will be. Hurrang seemed to take that "next step" but Claussen hasn't (he's gone backwards it seems).

You could bring up a kid from AAA but none of them are especially fantastic and will go through a major learning curve. If we were trolling around fighting Pittsburg for last place then bring him up and get him going, but while we are contending is the wrong time to throw a kid in the line up to "get some experience".

They will be buyers come the trade deadline and middle relivers and perhaps another starting pitcher will be at the top of their list.

Redus
06-07-2006, 01:04 PM
I still have faith in him. He was pretty good earlier and got crap run support.

registerthis
06-07-2006, 01:47 PM
I don't know what Claussens issues are, to be honest. What I do know is that he has fallen behind Elizardo to the #5 starter position. And like others have said, I don't know who you'd run out there if not Claussen. The Reds don't exactly have a brevy of starters beating down the door to take his spot.

Ltlabner
06-07-2006, 03:15 PM
Since he's a "controll" guy and relies on his pitching placement and fooling batters, would learning a new pitch help him out? Maybe add some sinkerball, screwball or whatever pitch would be new to his standard pitches? Maybe this would give him a few more miles and fool a few more batters before his goose is cooked.

That said, since his main issue is controll, adding another pitch that moves all over the place could become, in the words of Marty B "an adventure".