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View Full Version : Could Kearns play 1B?



danwl
05-24-2006, 01:17 PM
All this talk about Griffey ain't what he used to be in CF, and we need to move him to left and move Dunn to 1B to make room for Freel/Deno in CF.

But of course, talk is that Griffey doesn't wanna play 1B because he is concerned that the stops and starts will hurt the hammy more. And of course, the talk is that Dunn either stinks at 1B or doesn't wanna play there. So Griff can't move to left b/c Dunn doesn't wanna move to 1B.

What if we move Kearns to 1B? He's not a small guy either (6'3" I think). I don't see any fielding statistics for him in the majors except in the OF, but tell me he didn't play 1B at some point. Downside is that he's our only above-average OF right now, but Griff maybe would be an above-average RF and we improve the CF defense as well.

flyer85
05-24-2006, 01:18 PM
There is no reason to move a good RF with a great arm to 1b. We really have no idea what goes on with the supposed position switching other than scuttlebutt

oneupper
05-24-2006, 01:22 PM
I'd do it if we had an Pujols/Berkman type OF sitting on the bench and no other alternative, but not to make room for Freel, Ross or Denorfia.

pedro
05-24-2006, 01:23 PM
Why move the teams best defensive OF to 1B?

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 01:25 PM
The team is better with Freel in the lineup, especially when he's hot like he was in April.

Despite Dunn's grousing, he should be the team's 1B. From what I've seen, he does a much better job of picking up throws in the dirt than Aurilia.

edabbs44
05-24-2006, 01:26 PM
Why move the teams best defensive OF to 1B?
Agreed...Kearns' arm is a great asset in RF.

RedsBaron
05-24-2006, 01:27 PM
The team is better with Freel in the lineup, especially when he's hot like he was in April.

Despite Dunn's grousing, he should be the team's 1B. From what I've seen, he does a much better job of picking up throws in the dirt than Aurilia.
I agree. Kearns is the one good defensive player the Reds have in the outfield.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 01:37 PM
The team is better with Freel in the lineup, especially when he's hot like he was in April.

Despite Dunn's grousing, he should be the team's 1B. From what I've seen, he does a much better job of picking up throws in the dirt than Aurilia.

This team has done quite well the past two games without Freel in the lineup. The current lineup being used with Lopez leading off and Freel hitting second is really working. Freel needs to stay in his utility role in my opinion.

Did anyone watch the few games that Dunn played first? Not very pretty. The infield is already kinda weak defensively, the answer is not to add the worst defender on the team to it.

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 01:50 PM
Two games? Seriously?

The team was excellent with Freel hitting leadoff the entire month of April.

I've watched Aurilia at 1B, and he hasn't shown much ability to pick up errant throws. He can field grounders fine, but a 1B has to be a good receiver, and Aurilia hasn't shown me anything in that department.

registerthis
05-24-2006, 01:54 PM
This team has done quite well the past two games without Freel in the lineup.

They've also won a few games in September using a AAA lineup. What's your point?

indy_dave00
05-24-2006, 01:57 PM
As usual Ryan Freel once again showed he is not a full time regular . After a great start he wore down is April he was hitting over .300 with 8 steals early then after playing everyday slumped badly to .240 with 11 steals.

You do not bench Phillips hitting .308 with a team leading 31 rb's , 9 for 9 in steals and a superior glove to play Ryan Freel.

Freel is what he is a part time player to add spark but if he plays more than 10-15 days in a row his short comings are exposed quickly. Keep Ryan as the key reserve, if he gripes deal him.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 02:00 PM
Two games? Seriously?

The team was excellent with Freel hitting leadoff the entire month of April.

I've watched Aurilia at 1B, and he hasn't shown much ability to pick up errant throws. He can field grounders fine, but a 1B has to be a good receiver, and Aurilia hasn't shown me anything in that department.

Uhhh....yeah again.

All I saw in the last two games was two hitters hitting first and second manufacturing runs and playing smart baseball. The offense is suddenly scoring runs again. Also, none of the bonehead baserunning mistakes that Freel has a habit of making. Plus, if there are guys on base, Lopez and Phillips are actually capable of hitting them in. I'm not here to bash Freel, but there's a reason why the Reds have always considered him a good utility player.

Dunn is a mediocre defender wherever you put him, there is no way he would be a better first baseman than Aurilia.

Are you serious?

jimbo
05-24-2006, 02:00 PM
They've also won a few games in September using a AAA lineup. What's your point?

What's yours?

Instead of sarcasm, why not just say why you disagree?

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 02:11 PM
Uhhh....yeah again.

All I saw in the last two games was two hitters hitting first and second manufacturing runs and playing smart baseball. The offense is suddenly scoring runs again. Also, none of the bonehead baserunning mistakes that Freel has a habit of making. Plus, if there are guys on base, Lopez and Phillips are actually capable of hitting them in. I'm not here to bash Freel, but there's a reason why the Reds have always considered him a good utility player.

Dunn is a mediocre defender wherever you put him, there is no way he would be a better first baseman than Aurilia.

Are you serious?

If you plan to make judgements based on two games, I can't help you. You're ignoring the entire month of April in favor of two games.

This is why I trust stats a lot more than what some guy thinks he saw over two games.

As for Aurilia at 1B, he's fine at fielding grounders. What he doesn't do well is stretch and pick up errant throws, at least IMO. Dunn does a decent job of that at 1B. And since that's the first baseman's primary role (catching errant throws), I'd rather have Dunn than Aurilia.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 02:23 PM
If you plan to make judgements based on two games, I can't help you. You're ignoring the entire month of April in favor of two games.

This is why I trust stats a lot more than what some guy thinks he saw over two games.



I didn't "think" I saw anything. I did see what Lopez and Phillips bring to the table the past two games when they are hitting one and two. I don't think I'm the only one who saw it. And please, I don't want your help.

As far as Freel goes, his April numbers were inflated due to the first two weeks of the season when he was hitting above himself. After that second week, his numbers and OBP has been steadily declining. I trust stats myself, and those tell me something.

TeamBoone
05-24-2006, 04:09 PM
Did anyone watch the few games that Dunn played first? Not very pretty. The infield is already kinda weak defensively, the answer is not to add the worst defender on the team to it.

Dunn is a mediocre defender wherever you put him, there is no way he would be a better first baseman than Aurilia.

When "the move" was first announced, many were saying that it would take him awhile to get his 1B feet on the ground, but were willing to accept a few errors during the growing pains.

Then, when he did play first for the first time this season and made an error, he was jumped all over and the "he sucks" chants started. The second game at first, he didn't make an error.

Of his 106 games at 1B, he's made a total of 11 errors over that four-year span at a part-time position. I didn't count 2006.

For Pete's Sake... give the guy a chance before dogging his play at first.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 04:16 PM
When "the move" was first announced, many were saying that it would take him awhile to get his 1B feet on the ground, but were willing to accept a few errors during the growing pains.

Then, when he did play first for the first time this season and made an error, he was jumped all over and the "he sucks" chants started.

For Pete's Sake... give the guy a chance before dogging his play at first.

Dunn has played over 100 games at first base. How many games does he need to get his feet wet?

I'm not chanting he sucks. I've always supported him. I also recognize that he will be a mediocre defender wherever you put him. I just question putting your weakest defender in a what some would call already questionable defensive infield.

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 04:18 PM
I didn't "think" I saw anything. I did see what Lopez and Phillips bring to the table the past two games when they are hitting one and two. I don't think I'm the only one who saw it. And please, I don't want your help.

Someone needs to help you, because you still don't realize you're basing your judgement on two games.


As far as Freel goes, his April numbers were inflated due to the first two weeks of the season when he was hitting above himself. After that second week, his numbers and OBP has been steadily declining. I trust stats myself, and those tell me something.

So his numbers are inflated because he performed well? Yeah, funny how that works. You perform well, and your numbers get inflated. Amazing.

I guess it's not possible that Phillips was "hitting above himself" over the past two games, huh?

Look, if you don't like Freel, that's fine -- you're entitled to that opinion. But when you try to back up that opinion with two games' worth of observation, you're going to get called on it.

Hey, I like what Phillips has done the past two games, too. But he's got a long history of not being very good. It will take more than two games to overcome that.

Heath
05-24-2006, 04:19 PM
I wonder if Kearns could play CF, but I think he'd need a little more OF speed. I don't see the Aaron Rowand in him (defensively speaking).

TeamBoone
05-24-2006, 04:37 PM
Dunn has played over 100 games at first base. How many games does he need to get his feet wet?

106 sporadic games out of 648... that's not a whole lot to develop a feel for the position, to play it as well as the person who started 648 games at first base. That's doesn't mean he couldn't though, if he started every game at first for a season.

And I didn't say you were one of the chanters, your post just reminded me of the many who did say "he sucks" after the one game.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 04:39 PM
Someone needs to help you, because you still don't realize you're basing your judgement on two friggin' games.

Look, let's keep it civil. No need to attack me.


Look, if you don't like Freel, that's fine -- you're entitled to that opinion. But when you try to back that opinion up with two games' worth of observation, you're going to get called on it.

Hmmm....seems like a lot here agree with me. It's not that I don't like Freel, I just don't make him up to be as good as some do. If I have a choice between Freel, Lopez, and Phillips in the top two batting positions, there is no way I take Freel over the other two. I think they both bring more to the table.



Hey, I like what Phillips has done the past two games, too. But he's got a long history of not being very good. It will take more than two games to overcome that.

Try looking at what he's done since he has gotten here. I am not looking at the last two games he's played. I see him batting .311, with 4 hrs, 31 rbis, 10 stolen bases. With his speed I like him in the two hole and he and Lopez has worked nicely at the top in this series, enough so to not change it.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 04:45 PM
106 sporadic games out of 648... that's not a whole lot to develop a feel for the position, to play it as well as the person who started 648 games at first base. That's doesn't mean he couldn't though, if he started every game at first for a season.

And I didn't say you were one of the chanters, your post just reminded me of the many who did say "he sucks" after the one game.

That's fair, I respect that. He could very well develop into a feel for the position if given ample time. I guess I just question whether now is the time to do it. If it's going to happen, I'd rather the move be done during the offseason such as it was this year until Pena got traded. I just do not think now is the time.

KronoRed
05-24-2006, 04:50 PM
Why move the teams best defensive OF to 1B?
Really, I doubt Kearns wants to move anymore then the other guys.

Improve the D.

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 05:17 PM
Look, let's keep it civil. No need to attack me.

I did remove the "friggin'" comment from my post because it seemed unnecessarily malicious.




Hmmm....seems like a lot here agree with me.

A lot of people here don't like Adam Dunn either. It doesn't mean they're right, or that I should agree with them.



Try looking at what he's done since he has gotten here. I am not looking at the last two games he's played. I see him batting .311, with 4 hrs, 31 rbis, 10 stolen bases.

I see him "batting over his head" in April (.970 OPS), as you claimed Freel was doing. I also see him slumping badly in May (.669), just like Freel.

The only real difference is that Phillips played well the past two games.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 05:45 PM
I see him "batting over his head" in April (.970 OPS), as you claimed Freel was doing. I also see him slumping badly in May (.669), just like Freel.

The only real difference is that Phillips played well the past two games.

Phillips must not be slumping too bad because he is maintaining a batting average of over .300, which by the way has not dropped below since he started playing regularaly, even during his slump. He also hit well in Detroit, not just the past two games.

Freel on the other hand, has seen his average go from .467 on April 12th to his current .240, in about 5 weeks.

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 05:52 PM
Phillips must not be slumping too bad because he is maintaining a batting average of over .300, which by the way has not dropped below since he started playing regularaly, even during his slump. He also hit well in Detroit, not just the past two games.

Freel on the other hand, has seen his average go from .467 on April 12th to his current .240, in about 5 weeks.

Batting average.

Ugh.

OBP is worlds more important than BA, especially at the top of the lineup.

Even with his slump, Freel's OPB is still 25 points higher than Phillips. And Freel's put up a healthy .450 OBP over his last 5 games.

jimbo
05-24-2006, 05:58 PM
Batting average.

Ugh.

OBP is worlds more important than BA, especially at the top of the lineup.

Even with his slump, Freel's OBP is still 25 points higher than Phillips. And Freel's put up a healthy .450 OBP over his last 5 games.

Ok, let's look at OPS, which some will say is even a more telling stat. Freel's OPS for the season is at .655 while Phillips' is at .809. When all stats for the two are considered, there are only one, maybe two that stand out with Freel......while Phillips hits for average, some power, produces runs, steals bases, decent OBP and OBP's, and runs scored. He is also smarter on the basepaths.

We could go on and on, so I will let you have the last word. Good debate Johnny.

reds44
05-24-2006, 05:58 PM
No.

He has a great arm and plays solid OF defense.

Johnny Footstool
05-24-2006, 11:20 PM
Ok, let's look at OPS, which some will say is even a more telling stat. Freel's OPS for the season is at .655 while Phillips' is at .809. When all stats for the two are considered, there are only one, maybe two that stand out with Freel......while Phillips hits for average, some power, produces runs, steals bases, decent OBP and OBP's, and runs scored. He is also smarter on the basepaths.

We could go on and on, so I will let you have the last word. Good debate Johnny.

My last word is the same as before -- you're letting small sample sizes (one month from Freel, two months from Phillips) affect your judgement. Phillips had an awesome April and slugged the ball like mad. In all his previous seasons, minor and major league, he hadn't done that. In May, he hasn't been doing it. It will take more than one good month to convince me he's for real, just like it will take more than one bad month to convince me that Freel is lousy.

jimbo
05-25-2006, 12:13 AM
My last word is the same as before -- you're letting small sample sizes (one month from Freel, two months from Phillips) affect your judgement. Phillips had an awesome April and slugged the ball like mad. In all his previous seasons, minor and major league, he hadn't done that. In May, he hasn't been doing it. It will take more than one good month to convince me he's for real, just like it will take more than one bad month to convince me that Freel is lousy.

Fair enough.....time will tell. :beerme:

NastyBoy
05-25-2006, 02:59 AM
How bout we move Kearns to third and EE to 1st base.... not wait, they already tried the Kearns 3rd base experiment without success. So... my answer is no!

Johnny Footstool
05-25-2006, 10:39 AM
Fair enough.....time will tell. :beerme:

:beerme:

smith288
05-25-2006, 10:43 AM
Freel when on his game = :thumbup:

Freel when off his game = :barf:

Any discussion that Freel should be a full time starter makes me want to hurl. He just doesnt impress me as much as others I suppose.

Ravenlord
05-25-2006, 11:47 AM
lest we forget...

Freel, 2004 as a full time player

Month G OBP OPS
April 20 296 699
May 26 381 707
June 24 408 729
July 23 394 742
Aug 24 354 679
Sep 25 390 874

REDREAD
05-25-2006, 01:26 PM
I think it's fair to say that Phillips has won the 2b job for the time being on merit. It's always going to be "what have you done for me lately?". What Freel has done in 2004 shows that he might get better, but you never know for sure.

I say let Phillips keep on playing until he plays himself out of a job. I love his glove and would even accept a lower OBP from him.

Freel's only tool is a potential OBP advantage. Thus far, he's not delivering on that. Maybe in 2 months, it will make more sense to play Freel than Phillips.

Right now, Phillips is playing extraordinary. Maybe he's finally fullfilling his potential. Phillips is a young potential long term solution. You don't bench a guy like that to play the 30 year old Freel in a lost season. It's similiar to the arguement people make about why pitch Williams/Lidle/whoever instead of giving a young pitcher a chance. Why risk derailing Phillips? If you bench him now, he might get his "Cleveland attitude" back and be permanently damaged.

danwl
05-25-2006, 01:41 PM
How bout we move Kearns to third and EE to 1st base.... not wait, they already tried the Kearns 3rd base experiment without success. So... my answer is no!

Well, really, that is exactly right; we tried the guy where we thought he might fit, and he wasn't comfortable there, more importantly, didn't hit a lick; he is a good RF; why fix it if it ain't broke. The only thing that we know is broke really is that KGJ is gonna get hurt again; frankly, I am not too upset with a lack of range in CF (given, of course, that Jr. is a scrappy veteran who knows how to play the game), but it is the virtual certainty of future injury that is problematic. And really, that is what it is, no matter where he plays.

M2
05-25-2006, 02:08 PM
Another reason to keep Freel at the top of your lineup is he's one of the absolute best in baseball at scoring when he gets on base and he's one of the absolute best in baseball at taking an extra base. Seeing that he gets on base so well, that's a good guy to have at the top of your lineup.

TeamBoone
05-25-2006, 03:29 PM
EE is going to become a top notch 3B. His defense is already pretty darn good there; he knocks down some hard-to-get-to balls that I feel pretty safe saying that most wouldn't get to (especialy most on this team). I think that's part of the reason some of his throws to first are off on those bang bang plays... if he was somebody else playing there, the ball would be rolling into short left.

Leave him there... he'll only get better.

Austin Kearns is already a top-notch right fielder. What a waste it would be to move him to first.

I think he only has one error (last night's game)... and that error should have been on LaRue for not catching the ball rather than Kearns getting nicked for an errant throw.

Z-Fly
05-25-2006, 03:43 PM
No! Bad idea. Simple as that.