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edabbs44
05-24-2006, 11:55 PM
Anyone see Wily Mo's bonehead play on the bases tonight? Down 2 in the bottom of the 8th, Pena on 3rd (either runners on 2nd and 3rd or bases loaded) and Farnsworth throws a wild pitch. Pena didn't even move. Didn't even take a step towards home. The 3rd base coach almost picked him up and dragged him towards the plate. He ends up not scoring that inning. They didn't score in the 9th so it didn't end up being as important as it could have been, but it just proves everyone's favorite theory that Arroyo > Wily Mo.

Update: It was 2nd and 3rd with 2 out. He would have scored easily.

Redhook
05-25-2006, 12:01 AM
Anyone see Wily Mo's bonehead play on the bases tonight? Down 2 in the bottom of the 8th, Pena on 3rd (either runners on 2nd and 3rd or bases loaded) and Farnsworth throws a wild pitch. Pena didn't even move. Didn't even take a step towards home. The 3rd base coach almost picked him up and dragged him towards the plate. He ends up not scoring that inning. They didn't score in the 9th so it didn't end up being as important as it could have been, but it just proves everyone's favorite theory that Arroyo > Wily Mo.

Update: It was 2nd and 3rd with 2 out. He would have scored easily.

Oh, Wily Mo! That's pretty funny, hope to seen is on ESPN. I hope Wily Mo does well because he's fun to watch him hit it, but Good Night, he has no idea he's playing the game of baseball. His baseball IQ is equivalent to a pre-schooler.

Oh wow, while writing this, I just saw an earlier clip of Wily Mo having a ball bounce off his glove for a homer. That's hilarious.

dougdirt
05-25-2006, 12:47 AM
And they still would have lost by 1.

dougdirt
05-25-2006, 12:48 AM
Oh and I dont think any miscue means Arroyo>Pena. When its all said and done, Im willing to bet Pena is much > Arroyo.

griffeyfreak4
05-25-2006, 12:50 AM
Oh and I dont think any miscue means Arroyo>Pena. When its all said and done, Im willing to bet Pena is much > Arroyo.
How much you willing to bet? ;)

TeamBoone
05-25-2006, 01:34 AM
I think both teams got what they needed.

I love Wily Mo... why does everyone do this every time he makes a mistake?

I love Bronson too... even though he has lost two games.

KronoRed
05-25-2006, 01:34 AM
Griffeyfreak..good luck with reading that thread..that was quality posting :D

Jr's Boy
05-25-2006, 01:34 AM
Pena will be back on the bench when Coco's back next week.

TeamBoone
05-25-2006, 01:39 AM
How much you willing to bet? ;)

And the continuation of that thread (or the 4th version of it) is now called the Peanut Gallery... you can find it on the page that lists all the different areas of this board (what is that page called? is it the home page?).

SunDeck
05-25-2006, 07:18 AM
I hope Wily does well, myself and my feeling is that this trade will end up helping both clubs in the way they had hoped it would. Wily was the right guy for the Reds to trade, especially in comparison to Kearns. High ceiling, great athletic ability, but not a ballplayer yet. He could still develop into a replacement for Ortiz or Ramirez if you ask me. And that would be fine.

redsfan30
05-25-2006, 10:19 AM
I understand that I trade of that magnitude is going to be disected at every possible moment, but people need to realize that the trade gave each team something they really needed.

If a trade benefits each team, it is a good trade. End of story.

What am I saying "end of story." I know better....

smith288
05-25-2006, 10:30 AM
I hate these types of threads where people argue over who got fleeced or who got the better trade. Both teams traded for a need. Comparing each of the players is apple to oranges. Why does it have to be a us vs. them with teams we trade with?

cincinnati chili
05-25-2006, 10:33 AM
And they still would have lost by 1.

Fallacy of the predetermined outcome.

You can't say that the parties involved would have behaved/reacted the same way if the game went to 1-run. I was watching the game on TV, and this gave a bit of momentum to the Yanks.

HalMorrisRules
05-25-2006, 11:11 AM
I turned on my TV last night and it was on the ESPN broadcast of the NYY/BoSox game and Wily Mo happened to be batting in the 5th inning or so. They were talking about how Wily Mo is an adventure in the outfield but the Red Sox felt pressured to play him more often because the way Bronson Arroyo was pitching for the Reds made the Red Sox look like they got robbed. I'm paraphrasing but that was the sentiment being expressed.

redsfan30
05-25-2006, 11:19 AM
Fallacy of the predetermined outcome.

You can't say that the parties involved would have behaved/reacted the same way if the game went to 1-run. I was watching the game on TV, and this gave a bit of momentum to the Yanks.
Exactly. It is impossible to say they still would have lost because the bottom of the 9th (or even the remainder of the 8th) would have been played completely differently had it been a one run lead, rather than two.

blumj
05-25-2006, 11:23 AM
I turned on my TV last night and it was on the ESPN broadcast of the NYY/BoSox game and Wily Mo happened to be batting in the 5th inning or so. They were talking about how Wily Mo is an adventure in the outfield but the Red Sox felt pressured to play him more often because the way Bronson Arroyo was pitching for the Reds made the Red Sox look like they got robbed. I'm paraphrasing but that was the sentiment being expressed.
And that must be true because the geniuses at ESPN know everything.:bang: Coco Crisp being on the DL for 40 days has nothing to do with it. Wily Mo's .875 OPS has nothing to do with it, either. There's no universe in which the Red Sox wouldn't take the adventure of WMP in CF over the adventure of Willie Harris's .385 OPS in the lineup every day. But ESPN knows the Red Sox are only playing him so they don't look as bad. :bang: Sorry, but I need a few more. :bang: :bang: :bang:

TeamBoone
05-25-2006, 12:41 PM
I turned on my TV last night and it was on the ESPN broadcast of the NYY/BoSox game and Wily Mo happened to be batting in the 5th inning or so. They were talking about how Wily Mo is an adventure in the outfield but the Red Sox felt pressured to play him more often because the way Bronson Arroyo was pitching for the Reds made the Red Sox look like they got robbed. I'm paraphrasing but that was the sentiment being expressed.

That's just stupid on the part of ESPN. They certainly don't do this with every trade. Why is this one so much more important than others?

registerthis
05-25-2006, 01:18 PM
And that must be true because the geniuses at ESPN know everything.:bang: Coco Crisp being on the DL for 40 days has nothing to do with it. Wily Mo's .875 OPS has nothing to do with it, either. There's no universe in which the Red Sox wouldn't take the adventure of WMP in CF over the adventure of Willie Harris's .385 OPS in the lineup every day. But ESPN knows the Red Sox are only playing him so they don't look as bad. :bang: Sorry, but I need a few more. :bang: :bang: :bang:

Your head must really be hurting you after that post.

Steve4192
05-25-2006, 01:36 PM
Oh and I dont think any miscue means Arroyo>Pena.
I agree 100%.

One play doesn't prove diddly squat.


When its all said and done, Im willing to bet Pena is much > Arroyo.
I disagree 100%.

When it's all said and done:

Pena > Arroyo based on what the Red Sox needed at the time
Arroyo > Pena based on what the Reds needed at the time

Both teams traded from strength to bolster a weakness. Both teams got a quality player who helped to fill an area of need. It was the classic win-win scenario.

Phhhl
05-25-2006, 01:37 PM
I would like to think the reason this one has recieved so much scrutiny is because it was the first big deal Krivsky made as the Reds gm, and maybe an indicator of how the Reds might operate in the future. But, I think the real reason it gets so much attention is that Theo's Red Sox are a Moneyball-type club and Willy Mo is about the furthest thing from a Moneyball player on the planet. The deal intrigued a lot of sports writers on the East Coast because they want to see if Epstein knows something about Willy Mo that noone else seems to know. Otherwise, there is a decent chance ppl will look back on the deal and believe the Red Sox got fleeced.

vaticanplum
05-25-2006, 01:42 PM
I just want to reiterate that I am so happy we did not trade for Matt Clement. I am not right about a lot of things in baseball, but I think I was right about that.

traderumor
05-25-2006, 01:45 PM
Thanks for posting. I like updates on Wily Mo, good and bad. Hard enough to keep up on the Reds, so little snippets like this are appreciated by me.

Highlifeman21
05-25-2006, 01:53 PM
I just want to reiterate that I am so happy we did not trade for Matt Clement. I am not right about a lot of things in baseball, but I think I was right about that.

Clement seems so lost since he's been with Boston.

At least when he was a Cub, he produced.

dougdirt
05-25-2006, 02:08 PM
How much you willing to bet? ;)

Nothing, just an opinion I have and it sounded good to say Im willing to bet :)

KoryMac5
05-25-2006, 02:13 PM
I don't think a greater than less than math lesson was the intention of this thread at all. You have two players now on the Red Sox who are definitely in their own worlds in Man Ram and Wily Mo and I enjoy hearing about their adventures on the diamond as much as I enjoy seeing them hit 450ft home runs. Can you imagine what manny and wily mo must talk about in the dugout between innings. It would be classic to listen in on their conversations during a game.

HalMorrisRules
05-25-2006, 02:35 PM
That's just stupid on the part of ESPN. They certainly don't do this with every trade. Why is this one so much more important than others?

For the record, it was Orel Hershiser who said it, I believe. Could be a case of a GG, off of the top of the head, statement that cant be backed up by facts.

blumj
05-25-2006, 02:56 PM
I don't think a greater than less than math lesson was the intention of this thread at all. You have two players now on the Red Sox who are definitely in their own worlds in Man Ram and Wily Mo and I enjoy hearing about their adventures on the diamond as much as I enjoy seeing them hit 450ft home runs. Can you imagine what manny and wily mo must talk about in the dugout between innings. It would be classic to listen in on their conversations during a game.
And they always seem to be together in the dugout, too. I heard a Francona interview on the radio last week, and he was saying how Manny and Ortiz give Wily Mo hitting lessons every day and actually shout reminders at him in Spanish during his ABs. But, Wily Mo certainly seems to live in "Manny-World" or something like it. A-Rod hit a HR the other day, the fans threw the ball back onto the field, and Manny stuck it in his pocket like he didn't even realize he couldn't play the rest of the inning in LF with a baseball in his pocket. One of the umpires had to go take it away from him. Last night, he didn't just run through a stop sign from the 3rd base coach, he would have run right into him, like he was invisible, if the coach hadn't just gotten out of the way.

jimbo
05-25-2006, 03:05 PM
I just want to reiterate that I am so happy we did not trade for Matt Clement. I am not right about a lot of things in baseball, but I think I was right about that.

I was on the side that was supporting a Clement trade and I will be the first to say I was wrong and am glad that Krivsky and co. didn't pursue it.

RAS
05-25-2006, 03:38 PM
I saw 5 "plays " that were labeled "NOT web gems" and it showed Wiley Mo's 1st game in RF turning a likely fly out into a HR when he hit the wall. It also showed a series of Adam Dunn's missteps in the outfield of which there are many more. The ESPN guys said Pena has made great steps as an outfielder since that day....they didn't say that about Dunn. I also seem to recall Dunn standing on 3rd with his head in the clouds while a long drive was hit to the OF costing the Reds a big run when he neglected to tag up. Sorry but WMP certainly isn't any worse than the guy we have playing in LF

TeamBoone
05-25-2006, 03:40 PM
I just wish they'd stop making fun of Wily Mo. It makes me mad.

When he's doing well, they're all honey and toast; when he makes a mistake or an "adventurous" play, he's the dopey player of the day and all the commentary and snide remarks that come with it.

RAS
05-25-2006, 04:47 PM
It was a good trade for the Reds and Boston. It looks like we have a fine pitcher in Arroyo and I believe that they have a power hitter for now and the future.

Redhook
05-25-2006, 06:53 PM
It was a good trade for the Reds and Boston. It looks like we have a fine pitcher in Arroyo and I believe that they have a power hitter for now and the future.

Good trade for both, but better for the Reds probably short term and long term. Wily Mo is a poor's man Adam Dunn without the walks part of the equation. High ceiling, but his lack of baseball IQ will severely stump his growth into becoming a great player. Bronson is a guy who just knows how to pitch. It's fun to watch.

edabbs44
05-25-2006, 06:57 PM
I saw 5 "plays " that were labeled "NOT web gems" and it showed Wiley Mo's 1st game in RF turning a likely fly out into a HR when he hit the wall. It also showed a series of Adam Dunn's missteps in the outfield of which there are many more. The ESPN guys said Pena has made great steps as an outfielder since that day....they didn't say that about Dunn. I also seem to recall Dunn standing on 3rd with his head in the clouds while a long drive was hit to the OF costing the Reds a big run when he neglected to tag up. Sorry but WMP certainly isn't any worse than the guy we have playing in LF
Wow. The chances of RAS getting positive rep points for this post are...remote.

deltachi8
05-25-2006, 08:51 PM
too early to tell for either side on this trade. early results show both teams benefit, but i'll wait and see.

deltachi8
05-25-2006, 08:52 PM
Wow. The chances of RAS getting positive rep points for this post are...remote.

why do people obsess over rep points? i dont get it..

anyways, back to your scheduled thread..

blumj
05-25-2006, 10:47 PM
I just wish they'd stop making fun of Wily Mo. It makes me mad.

When he's doing well, they're all honey and toast; when he makes a mistake or an "adventurous" play, he's the dopey player of the day and all the commentary and snide remarks that come with it.
You might not want to watch ESPN tonight. Nothing major, just a little something they might pick on.

blumj
05-28-2006, 01:42 PM
I just wanted to let you all know, Wily Mo's on the DL with a wrist injury. He's missed 3 games in the last week because of it, so maybe it's better if he gets the time to really let it heal.

saboforthird
05-28-2006, 02:01 PM
Wow. The chances of RAS getting positive rep points for this post are...remote.

Personally I think this site could do very well WITHOUT the rep point system, but I don't run this site. ;)

TeamBoone
05-28-2006, 02:04 PM
Personally I think this site could do very well WITHOUT the rep point system, but I don't run this site. ;)

You probably weren't here before the system was instituted... something had to be done and the rep system was what the mods came up with.

NastyBoy
05-28-2006, 04:11 PM
WMP placed on DL

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060528&content_id=1476078&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

TeamBoone
05-28-2006, 04:52 PM
Awww crap. That's too bad.

oregonred
05-28-2006, 05:19 PM
Looking at the stat log, Wily Mo actually had a very nice month of May with a lot more PT after a not so shabby April in a small # of ABs

Also interesting and surprising to note he's got twice as many BB in the month as KGJ with the same number of ABs (6 vs. 3).

Defense and baserunning are another matter, but offensively he's been pretty decent.