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View Full Version : Cody Ross dealt to the Fish for PTBNL



flyer85
05-26-2006, 05:24 PM
Now we know how they opened the roster spot for Mercker.

Red Leader
05-26-2006, 05:25 PM
Any word on the return? Dontrelle? ;)

harangatang
05-26-2006, 05:26 PM
Absolute Craziness...I didn't see this one coming.

Matt700wlw
05-26-2006, 05:27 PM
Link?

I've seen/heard nothing of the sort.

CTA513
05-26-2006, 05:28 PM
Any word on the return? Dontrelle? ;)

and Cabrera. ;)

It will probably end up being a minor league pitcher or someone to help the bullpen.

CTA513
05-26-2006, 05:28 PM
Link?

I've seen/heard nothing of the sort.

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

Red Leader
05-26-2006, 05:29 PM
What about Tim Spooneybarger, or deferred payments on Mike Hampton's contract? Oh, wait. That's what we would have gotten if O'Brien were running the show still.

flyer85
05-26-2006, 05:30 PM
and Cabrera. ;)

It will probably end up being a minor league pitcher or someone to help the bullpen.I don't think the Marlins could help us in the pen, I'm guessing it will be some guy playing A ball.

Matt700wlw
05-26-2006, 05:34 PM
http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/


Thanks.

This isn't even supposed to be out yet. :lol:

KronoRed
05-26-2006, 05:35 PM
Just a warm body probably.

I'd have rather just DFA'd Q and kept Ross if it was a worry about losing him in waivers.

NC Reds
05-26-2006, 05:39 PM
It's time to bring Denorfia back. He can help the big league club here and there. I would give him spot starts in center and Freel spot starts at 2nd and 3rd.

Hopefully, this move is a precursor for it.

dabvu2498
05-26-2006, 05:39 PM
Just a warm body probably.

I'd have rather just DFA'd Q and kept Ross if it was a worry about losing him in waivers.
DFA Q, you still have to pay him. Keep him around, still have to pay him. Q and Ross are a fairly even trade off IMO. And I don't think anyone thinks Ross will turn into the next great Reds outfielder... so... if he goes, he goes.

TheBigLebowski
05-26-2006, 05:40 PM
Well....no one can assert that it is boring to be a Reds fan.

Still no updated word on the warm body we received in return?

Red Leader
05-26-2006, 05:42 PM
Chris Volstad? Yeah, I doubt it.

reds44
05-26-2006, 05:48 PM
The Marlins are stacked with young talent. I hope you got something decent out of it.

I'm thinking it might be Nate Bump, but I have no info to back that.

RedFanAlways1966
05-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Gee, Cody.... I feel like we barely knew ya. That was a memorable 1st at-bat with the REDS... a strikeout while getting hit by a pitch.

Take care and good luck! :)

DeadRedinCT
05-26-2006, 05:48 PM
Unless they have a spare opening, it has to be someone that's on their 40 man roster, since C. Ross was on the Reds'.

dabvu2498
05-26-2006, 05:50 PM
I'm guessing PTBNL.

Red Leader
05-26-2006, 05:52 PM
I'm guessing PTBNL.

But probably not Pile O' Cash. ;)

Matt700wlw
05-26-2006, 05:52 PM
Well....no one can assert that it is boring to be a Reds fan.



Not anymore!

reds44
05-26-2006, 05:52 PM
I'm guessing PTBNL.
I doubt it. I think we would ask for somehting more then that for Ross.

Raisor
05-26-2006, 05:52 PM
Can someone esplain why Cody was brought in in the first place?

KronoRed
05-26-2006, 05:53 PM
DFA Q, you still have to pay him. Keep him around, still have to pay him. Q and Ross are a fairly even trade off IMO.
I don't agree, I see Ross as being younger and a better at OF defense, all Q brings is switch hitting, and he doesn't hit enough for it ;)

Red Leader
05-26-2006, 05:53 PM
Joe Borowski? Girardi recently said that he wanted to give some looks at closing to some of their younger arms, and it would address a need for the Reds.

KronoRed
05-26-2006, 05:54 PM
I doubt it. I think we would ask for somehting more then that for Ross.
Ross isn't going to bring us anything more then single A fodder.

DeadRedinCT
05-26-2006, 05:55 PM
There was an incident involving Scott Olsen and Randy Messenger earlier this week. Then Scott Olsen got into a tiff with manager Joe Girardi during his last start. Probably wishful thinking.

Heath
05-26-2006, 05:55 PM
Can someone esplain why Cody was brought in in the first place?

Because WayneK said so, Lucy.

reds44
05-26-2006, 05:55 PM
Ross isn't going to bring us anything more then single A fodder.
We'll see.

Heath
05-26-2006, 05:56 PM
There was an incident involving Scott Olsen and Randy Messenger earlier this week. Then Scott Olsen got into a tiff with manager Joe Girardi during his last start. Probably wishful thinking.

Hey, if the Marlins want that deadbeat attitude of Olsen - send 'em our way ;)

lollipopcurve
05-26-2006, 05:57 PM
I think they'll get a decent (B+) prospect arm back or someone like Borowski.

kbrake
05-26-2006, 05:58 PM
If we get a major leaguer how does that make room for Mercker?

paintmered
05-26-2006, 05:58 PM
My guess is bullpen help.

reds44
05-26-2006, 05:59 PM
I think they'll get a decent (B+) prospect arm back or someone like Borowski.
B+ maybe a stretch. I'm thinking a C+.

max venable
05-26-2006, 06:00 PM
I'm guessing PTBNL.
Don't we still owe the Dodgers a PTBNL for Ross? Or am I mistaken? If we do, it's really a weird situation. So in theory, we could get a PTBNL from the fish and just ship him straight to the Dodgers and it's like the Cody Ross thing never even happened, right?

Matt700wlw
05-26-2006, 06:00 PM
If we get a major leaguer how does that make room for Mercker?

They can always send someone to the minors or release someone if they had to.

BCubb2003
05-26-2006, 06:03 PM
Don't we still owe the Dodgers a PTBNL for Ross? Or am I mistaken? If we do, it's really a weird situation. So in theory, we could get a PTBNL from the fish and just ship him straight to the Dodgers and it's like the Cody Ross thing never even happened, right?

Actually, the Dodgers probably agreed to a list of players already, and are just waiting to see which one turns out the best, at some agreed-upon time.

Javy Pornstache
05-26-2006, 06:03 PM
I think it's a safe bet it's a minor leaguer. If it was, Borowski, for instance, that doesn't clear room for Mercker. You could, I suppose, DFA Quinton McCracken, but then you'd have eight in the bullpen and only four on the bench, right? Or is my math off?

Doc. Scott
05-26-2006, 06:05 PM
Yeah, you'd think Ross would command a little more than Robert Manuel, say, but Ross has already been traded for a marginal LOOGY (Steve Colyer (http://www.baseball-reference.com/c/colyest01.shtml)) and a PTBNL.

So despite the fact that the Tigers spent a fourth-round pick on him, he's never had a really bad season in the minors, and he has three solid years plus this chunk of 2006 under his belt in AAA at age 25, it seems like a consensus around baseball that he's not ever going to be a starting-quality player.

I'd be happy with a Grade B prospect from Florida. That would likely result in a net talent increase as compared to the likely Grade B-/C+ (tops) guy the Reds will give LA.

Red Leader
05-26-2006, 06:05 PM
I think it's a safe bet it's a minor leaguer. If it was, Borowski, for instance, that doesn't clear room for Mercker. You could, I suppose, DFA Quinton McCracken, but then you'd have eight in the bullpen and only four on the bench, right? Or is my math off?

This is a stretch and would require a chain reaction, but if it were Borowski, we could DFA White, DFA McCracken and bring up another bullpen arm from AAA.

reds44
05-26-2006, 06:05 PM
I am praying for Reggie Abercrombie.

KronoRed
05-26-2006, 06:07 PM
I am praying for Reggie Abercrombie.
I think we'd have to give them more

max venable
05-26-2006, 06:08 PM
Actually, the Dodgers probably agreed to a list of players already, and are just waiting to see which one turns out the best, at some agreed-upon time.
Right. I know what ya mean, but do you see my point? No matter what, we gain a player and lose a player, so in theory, it's all a wash unless the Reds truly are able to find a gem through all this somehow.

klw
05-26-2006, 06:11 PM
It could in theory be a major league player with options who could then be sent down. The issue isn't 40 man space just 25 man space.

Doc. Scott
05-26-2006, 06:15 PM
I am praying for Reggie Abercrombie.

Why, so he can re-enact the Shakespearean tragedy of one Reginald "Rally Time" Taylor?

reds44
05-26-2006, 06:35 PM
Why, so he can re-enact the Shakespearean tragedy of one Reginald "Rally Time" Taylor?
What?

Abercrombie has the ability to be a 5 tool player. He isn't ready for the majors left but with time in louisville he could be a good player.

reds44
05-26-2006, 06:36 PM
I think we'd have to give them more
Ehh you're probably right.

Matt700wlw
05-26-2006, 06:37 PM
It is a PTBNL (according to Marty on the pregame show)

BCubb2003
05-26-2006, 06:37 PM
Right. I know what ya mean, but do you see my point? No matter what, we gain a player and lose a player, so in theory, it's all a wash unless the Reds truly are able to find a gem through all this somehow.

I see your point. It's kind of like a slow-moving three-team trade. The Reds get a minor-leaguer from Florida, L.A. gets a minor-leaguer from the Reds, and Florida gets Cody "Moonlite" Ross from L.A.

reds44
05-26-2006, 06:38 PM
It is a PTBNL
booo

oneupper
05-26-2006, 06:40 PM
It's like teams are using a "float" of PTBNLs to balance their rosters.

Kiting players instead of checks.

Caveat Emperor
05-26-2006, 06:42 PM
I'm officially calling shenanigans on Wayne Krivsky. Why even make this move for Cody Ross in the first place if all you're going to do is let a marginally talented waste of a roster spot (Q) sit the bench in his place?

Trading a PTBNL to LA for a PTBNL from the Marlins. Basically, we trade a usesless minor league spare aprt for a differently named useless minor league spare part from the Marlins. If that isn't an exercise in roster autoeroticism, I don't know what is.

Gizmo
05-26-2006, 06:46 PM
well, we had to do something this week, right? Seems like it's been awhile since we've made a move.

BCubb2003
05-26-2006, 06:57 PM
I can see Krivsky playing the markets, turning a set of Reds minor league options into a better set of Florida minor league options with Cody Ross as the currency. If the top guy in the Marlins PTBNL coming in is better than the top guy in the Reds PTBNL going out, there's no harm done.

DunnFan44
05-26-2006, 07:23 PM
Welcome back Jimmy Anderson!!! Just a thought. It would not suprise me cause he is a Lefty.

Chip R
05-26-2006, 07:24 PM
Just speculation but I am guessing that Q still has a job because he can switch hit i.e. bat lefty. The bench is not exactly filled with left handed hitters. There is Javy but if he is starting, all that is left besides Q is Mr. Hat and he usually starts against righties. I am guessing Wayne and Narron want a balanced bench. Now we can cry and gnash our teeth all we want about Q still being on the roster but he is not the reason why the Reds are 4 back of StL.

BoydsOfSummer
05-26-2006, 07:32 PM
Should have tried for Logan Kensing. Major League ready arm (arguably) with a bit of upside.

JaxRed
05-26-2006, 07:40 PM
As a person who has seen Abercrombie play a lot.......... don't want him.

MrCinatit
05-26-2006, 07:47 PM
There goes my theory that Cody Ross was going to be the Player to be named later in the Cody Ross trade - or even the Phillips trade.
Unless Ross is the player to be named later in this trade, THEN traded back to the Dodgers as the player to be named later.

Gallen5862
05-26-2006, 07:55 PM
With this trade the Reds only have 38 players on the 40 man roster. Could this be the setup for another trade or for a couple waiver claims?

GAC
05-26-2006, 07:59 PM
Ross isn't going to bring us anything more then single A fodder.

So then why keep him? His contribution to this team is what again? ;)

Highlifeman21
05-26-2006, 08:35 PM
I am praying for Reggie Abercrombie.

Sarcasm?

The same Reggie Abercrombie who can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag?

Phhhl
05-26-2006, 10:21 PM
I'd take Wellemeyer as the PTBNL. The Fish seems to have a lot of bullpen guys.

Heath
05-26-2006, 10:29 PM
There goes my theory that Cody Ross was going to be the Player to be named later in the Cody Ross trade - or even the Phillips trade.
Unless Ross is the player to be named later in this trade, THEN traded back to the Dodgers as the player to be named later.

Didn't that happen to Jay Johstone?

Gallen5862
05-26-2006, 10:33 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASAp...6/c1473117.jsp
Notes: Ross sent packing ... again
05/26/2006 8:46 PM ET
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- Outfielder Cody Ross' Friday began with a phone call from Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky.
"Cody, I've got some good news and some bad news," Krivsky said from the other end of the line. "The bad news is you're not with the Reds anymore. The good news is you're still in the big leagues."

The club needed to clear space on the 25-man roster because it activated reliever Kent Mercker from the 15-day disabled list before Friday's game against Arizona. Ross learned he was dealt to the Marlins. Cincinnati will get a player to be named later or cash considerations in return.

"Some Willis guy, I'm not sure," Ross joked.

No, the Reds won't be getting superstar Dontrelle Willis out of this move.

Ross' tenure with the Reds lasted all of five at-bats in two games.

Cincinnati acquired Ross on April 24 from the Dodgers for a player to be named later after he was designated for assignment by Los Angeles. The 25-year-old went 1-for-5.

Ross' first at-bat was memorable. A Roy Oswalt fastball hit his hand while he struck out against Houston on April 28, causing a deep bruise on his left pinky. It put him on the disabled list until he was activated on Tuesday. He started in left field on Wednesday.

Knowing Ross had been designated a month earlier, Krivsky wanted to avoid making him go through it again. Ross would have had to sweat it out for a maximum 10-day period before either clearing waivers to the Minors or being picked up by another club.

"I started calling teams and tried to find a spot where someone wanted him," Krivsky said. "I wasn't looking so much for the return as I was keeping a player in the Major Leagues somewhere."

The rebuilding Marlins are stocked with young players. Ross knew that not every GM looks out for a player he's trying to unload.

"It's probably a little better opportunity to play a little bit more. I'll jump-start my career, hopefully," said Ross, who was batting .421 (8-for-19) with two homers and nine RBIs in 10 combined games for the Dodgers and Reds.

"I knew something had to go down today with Mercker coming off the DL," Ross added. "I just thanked [Krivsky] for giving me an opportunity to go somewhere and play. He could have designated me, made me wait it out or send me through waivers. He made a deal for me. Hopefully, it'll work out for me."

Mercker ready: Mercker will return to his usual late-inning set-up spot. Although Chris Hammond did well in filling the role, Reds manager Jerry Narron was happy to be at full strength again.

"Just having Merck back out there makes me feel a lot better," Narron said.

Mercker was placed on the DL on May 14, retroactive to May 11, because of inflammation in his left elbow. He took a cortisone shot and has had no trouble throwing on the side. It remains to be seen how often Narron will be able to use him.

"I'd like to see how he feels after the first time he goes out there," Narron said. "Whether we'll back him up the day after that, I don't know."

Seen and heard: Since Arizona starter Brandon Webb has better numbers against right-handers than left-handers (.230 opposing average compared to .305), Narron altered his lineup some, starting switch-hitting catcher Javier Valentin.

Righty-hitting third baseman Edwin Encarnacion was dropped to the eighth spot for the first time this season.

"It might be the only time he hits eighth all year," Narron said.

Injured right-hander Paul Wilson (shoulder) long-tossed in the outfield on Friday afternoon. There was no word on when Wilson will face hitters again in simulated games or on a rehab assignment.

Fuel the jet: Krivsky spent Thursday visiting Double-A Chattanooga with chief executive officer Bob Castellini and Minor League director Johnny Almaraz. The group flew on Castellini's personal jet and later went to Knoxville, where the Lookouts played a road game Thursday night.

"He wanted to see the facility," Krivsky said. "It gave him the chance to see Chattanooga and also see our team play."

Coming up: Aaron Harang will be the Reds' starter in Saturday's 6:10 p.m. ET game against the Diamondbacks. Right-hander Juan Cruz is scheduled to start for Arizona.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

That was a classy move with Ross. I also wonder what type player or how much cash Ross was worth.

harangatang
05-26-2006, 11:05 PM
"I started calling teams and tried to find a spot where someone wanted him," Krivsky said. "I wasn't looking so much for the return as I was keeping a player in the Major Leagues somewhere."

The rebuilding Marlins are stocked with young players. Ross knew that not every GM looks out for a player he's trying to unload.
That makes me happy that the Reds are treating their players well, it shows players an atmosphere where they want to come and play. The kid had no chance of catching on in any more than a bench role with the big 3 in the OF and Denorfia and Freel to back them up.

Chip R
05-27-2006, 12:37 AM
That makes me happy that the Reds are treating their players well, it shows players an atmosphere where they want to come and play. The kid had no chance of catching on in any more than a bench role with the big 3 in the OF and Denorfia and Freel to back them up.

Yeah. They did the same thing with Williams. I wonder how hard they tried to trade Womack?

KronoRed
05-27-2006, 12:55 AM
So then why keep him? His contribution to this team is what again? ;)
He's better then Q :D

reds44
05-27-2006, 01:35 AM
Sarcasm?

The same Reggie Abercrombie who can't hit his way out of a wet paper bag?
No the same Reggie Abercrombie that is batting .280 since his awful start to the season. The same Reggie Abercrombie that really didn't belong in the majors to start the year, but might actually make something of his 1st year.

SteelSD
05-27-2006, 03:14 AM
No the same Reggie Abercrombie that is batting .280 since his awful start to the season. The same Reggie Abercrombie that really didn't belong in the majors to start the year, but might actually make something of his 1st year.

Reggie Abercrombie is going to be 26 years old in July and sports a career minor league OBP of .303 and a SLG of .418.

The guy has been awful, projected to be awful, is awful, and will continue to be awful. His last name might as well be spelled "Taylor".

Ron Madden
05-27-2006, 05:58 AM
I'd be willing to bet the Reds send cash to LA to close that deal, then Florida pays cash to the Reds for Ross.

RAS
05-27-2006, 06:18 AM
I bet it's no better than a break-even deal for the Reds,.,

Ltlabner
05-27-2006, 10:01 AM
Seems like this deal has more to do with managing the roster and keeping spots open than a real move for tallent. Then again, the Kriv has gotten lucky on some players he's brought to town so maybe he can eye out a PTBNL that can do something for us.

RedlegJake
05-27-2006, 10:45 AM
I'll take Krivsky on his word...this move was more about Cody Ross and theneed for a roster spot than about the return. Since Ross was at best a marginal bit player in the Reds scheme, nothing hurt. PTBNL for PTBNL. As someone else said, we get a player from loaded system for one of ours. Hard to lose there. I think it's important that the Reds GM is perceived by players as fair and above board - it will help. I know it's nice to have a GM that has integrity (as opposed to JB) and who has some smarts (as opposed to OB). I'm on board with WK's moves. For so little time as he's been here I'm beginning to really trust his overall judgement.

Redhook
05-27-2006, 10:57 AM
I'll take Krivsky on his word...this move was more about Cody Ross and theneed for a roster spot than about the return. Since Ross was at best a marginal bit player in the Reds scheme, nothing hurt. PTBNL for PTBNL. As someone else said, we get a player from loaded system for one of ours. Hard to lose there. I think it's important that the Reds GM is perceived by players as fair and above board - it will help. I know it's nice to have a GM that has integrity (as opposed to JB) and who has some smarts (as opposed to OB). I'm on board with WK's moves. For so little time as he's been here I'm beginning to really trust his overall judgement.

Well said.

I think this deal probably favors the Marlins, similar to the Reds getting Phillips from the Indians (hopefully not of the same magnitude) for a PTBNL. Most PTBNL don't turn out to be much. What I'm thinking and hoping, far-fetched as it is, is that Wayne is building good relations with the Marlins GM and we could possibly go after Willis later this summer. Wishful thinking? Absolutely. But with Wayne, you never know.

TeamBoone
05-27-2006, 11:40 AM
I'll take Krivsky on his word...this move was more about Cody Ross and theneed for a roster spot than about the return. Since Ross was at best a marginal bit player in the Reds scheme, nothing hurt. PTBNL for PTBNL. As someone else said, we get a player from loaded system for one of ours. Hard to lose there. I think it's important that the Reds GM is perceived by players as fair and above board - it will help. I know it's nice to have a GM that has integrity (as opposed to JB) and who has some smarts (as opposed to OB). I'm on board with WK's moves. For so little time as he's been here I'm beginning to really trust his overall judgement.

I guess I don't see the logic as to why Cody Ross was acquired in the first place. The situation ("at best a marginal bit player in the Reds scheme") was the same at the time of the acquisition as it is now.

Unless the PTBNL is an upgrade over the minor leaguer let go by the Reds, I just don't can't figure it out. And maybe that player will be, but how was anyone to know that at the time of the original acquision? Was it just speculation on the part of WK? Or was this the plan at the get go?

oneupper
05-27-2006, 11:47 AM
Reggie Abercrombie is going to be 26 years old in July and sports a career minor league OBP of .303 and a SLG of .418.

The guy has been awful, projected to be awful, is awful, and will continue to be awful. His last name might as well be spelled "Taylor".

Will the fish start Ross instead? I was at the Mets-Marlins game last night. The CF (Abercrombie) didn't look to be all that in the field, but the RF (Hermida) was getting great jumps on balls.
Both of them have been so-so at the plate, Fish Fans were very disappointed in Hermida's performance.

Highlifeman21
05-27-2006, 11:53 AM
What?

Abercrombie has the ability to be a 5 tool player. He isn't ready for the majors left but with time in louisville he could be a good player.


And those tools would be hammer, circular saw, flat head screwdriver, phillips head screwdriver and drill?

He's older than Denorfia, IIRC, and the only reason he's an everyday OF is b/c he plays for the Marlins. That right there has to tell you plenty.

westofyou
05-27-2006, 12:02 PM
Unless the PTBNL is an upgrade over the minor leaguer let go by the Reds, I just don't can't figure it out.

Chances of that are....... remote.

Baseball players are chips, it's nice that the Reds have a GM at the table again, and someone staking them.

SteelSD
05-27-2006, 12:24 PM
Will the fish start Ross instead? I was at the Mets-Marlins game last night. The CF (Abercrombie) didn't look to be all that in the field, but the RF (Hermida) was getting great jumps on balls.
Both of them have been so-so at the plate, Fish Fans were very disappointed in Hermida's performance.

Not sure what the Fish will do. Hermida was rushed, but he's off the DL now and I'd think the Marlins are committed to giving him a ton of PA. The only thing Abercrombie has is his glove (2nd in the NL with a .938 Zone Rating).

I was actually disappointed to see that Ross was the guy to go to make room for Mercker. All the guy has done at the Minor League level was produce. Decent Plate Discipline, decent pop for a small guy, solid gap power. Seems like the Outfielder equivalent of a Marcus Giles minus a touch of Giles plate discipine. There's value in that beyond "marginal bench player".

TeamBoone asked the right question (paraphrased): "If the Reds gave up a PTBNL for Ross and are getting a PTBNL for Ross, how does this make sense?"

I'd go further and add, "...particularly with Quinton McCracken still on the team."

Answer: It makes no sense unless the PTBNL the Reds are to receive is of MUCH higher quality than what they gave up to get him. If not, it's an exercise in diminishing returns and I'd have much rather seen the Reds DFA McCracken. But it's possible despite what Krivsky stated about the deal not being so much about the return, that the plan was to first see if Ross had market value beyond what he gave up to get him and, if not, keep Ross and DFA McCracken. Not sure how probable that is because Krivsky doesn't seem like much of a guy to whitewash his true motives, but we'll know when we see exactly what the Reds will get. But if Krivsky is telling us the truth about not being all that interested in the return for Ross, it's a stinker of a deal.

Ltlabner
05-27-2006, 12:31 PM
I bet it's no better than a break-even deal for the Reds,.,

Since we don't have any idea what Ross would have done for the Reds nor what the PTBNL will do for us in the future it's hard to bet what would or wouldn't happen.

It is possible that Ross was delt for a player to help the team in the future since Ross couldn't do much for us right now other than PH. I'm not saying that PH'rs don't have value, its just that we have enough guys who can play different postions that the need for a PH specalist isn't as high. Also, it could be that another deal is in the works that would package McQ with someone else (presumidly for pitching). That leaves the 5th OF spot open for Deno or another yet to be discovered option.

Don't forget, these trades are not made in a vacume. The Kriv is smart enough to be making several moves that lead up to a blockbuster/major move.

Gallen5862
05-27-2006, 12:53 PM
The original move that acquired Ross was what DFAEd Womack. I believe that Kriv believed that Ross over Womack was an upgrade. Then Ross gets hit and we needed a roster move so he was put on the dl. Then a series of injuries may have prevented some other trades. Kriv then decided to trade Ross to get a PTBNL or cash for Ross. This got Mercker back on the roster and creates a second opening on the 40 man roster. These were not a bad series of moves. Kriv is trying to upgrade the 25 and 40 man rosters gradually.

Matt700wlw
05-27-2006, 01:40 PM
It seems that Krivsky's thinking is anything over DanO guys in an upgrade....

:)

SteelSD
05-27-2006, 01:47 PM
Since we don't have any idea what Ross would have done for the Reds nor what the PTBNL will do for us in the future it's hard to bet what would or wouldn't happen.

It is possible that Ross was delt for a player to help the team in the future since Ross couldn't do much for us right now other than PH. I'm not saying that PH'rs don't have value, its just that we have enough guys who can play different postions that the need for a PH specalist isn't as high. Also, it could be that another deal is in the works that would package McQ with someone else (presumidly for pitching). That leaves the 5th OF spot open for Deno or another yet to be discovered option.

Don't forget, these trades are not made in a vacume. The Kriv is smart enough to be making several moves that lead up to a blockbuster/major move.

1. We have a good idea of Cody Ross' ability level. He's a solid prospect who, most likely because of his size (5'9") is an undervalued commodity.

2. McCracken has zero trade value and really shouldn't be on the club. He was the obvious 40-man slot to clear.

3. You don't "build up" to a "major move" by playing a diminishing returns game. The only way the Reds win the original Ross deal now is if the PTBNL is much better than both Ross and/or the PTBNL the Reds gave up to get Ross. Otherwise it is, at best, wheel spinning.

Ltlabner
05-27-2006, 02:25 PM
1. We have a good idea of Cody Ross' ability level. He's a solid prospect who, most likely because of his size (5'9") is an undervalued commodity.

2. McCracken has zero trade value and really shouldn't be on the club. He was the obvious 40-man slot to clear.

3. You don't "build up" to a "major move" by playing a diminishing returns game. The only way the Reds win the original Ross deal now is if the PTBNL is much better than both Ross and/or the PTBNL the Reds gave up to get Ross. Otherwise it is, at best, wheel spinning.


SteelSD,

1) The key word is "solid prospect". But being a prospect and producing are two seperate things. Since we don't know what he would/wouldn't have done you can't say the PTBNL will be better or worse than he would or wouldn't have been. The cold fact is we will never know.

2) It's true that McQ prob has little trade value yet so did Dave Williams and the Kriv got the job done there. Who's to say that as part of a package deal another team wouldn't take a chance on him?

3) Sometimes to make a big move you have to make some moves with other players to open up spots in the roster or in the lineup or to free up money to do so. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen here, I'm just saying that since we don't know the end result of the move we can't say "it sucks" right now. It could turn out great...it could turn out horrible. Fact is, we woln't know for a while so why rush to judgement?

reds44
05-27-2006, 02:32 PM
If anybody cares...............


Ross is starting in RF and batting 5th for the Fish today.

SteelSD
05-27-2006, 02:47 PM
SteelSD,

1) The key word is "solid prospect". But being a prospect and producing are two seperate things. Since we don't know what he would/wouldn't have done you can't say the PTBNL will be better or worse than he would or wouldn't have been. The cold fact is we will never know.

We can use his minor league numbers to determine what Cody Ross will most likely be. And he'd most likely be pretty darn good. Teams pay real talent for what players will most likely be. That's a cold hard fact. And unless the Reds get someone who'll most likely be better than Cody Ross and/or the PTBNL the Reds gave up to acquire him, it's a resource waste and a trade loss.

We can only hope that Krivsky's quote about not really caring about the return in order to keep Ross in the Show with another team was nothing more than carefully planned lip service positioned to hide the fact that he's looking to pilfer something really valuable from the Marlins system. If not, it's a dumb move because that would mean Krivsky swapped out a resource from the Reds roster while keeping a less valuable resource (McCracken) around.


2) It's true that McQ prob has little trade value yet so did Dave Williams and the Kriv got the job done there. Who's to say that as part of a package deal another team wouldn't take a chance on him?

Because Quinton McCracken is the epitome of a guy teams can find on the waiver wire for nothing or from their own AAA roster. He doesn't have "little" trade value. He has none. No comparison between McCracken and Dave Williams due to the fact that Dave Williams throws with his left arm and can stand on a pitching rubber.


3) Sometimes to make a big move you have to make some moves with other players to open up spots in the roster or in the lineup or to free up money to do so. I'm not saying that is what is going to happen here, I'm just saying that since we don't know the end result of the move we can't say "it sucks" right now. It could turn out great...it could turn out horrible. Fact is, we woln't know for a while so why rush to judgement?

Well, moving Ross didn't free up any cash, so all it did was open a roster slot for a player (Mercker) who'd take it immediately. You don't "free up" anything doing that. And if you're looking to hoard resources in order to make a "big move", then you don't move a Cody Ross just to free up a roster slot. You move a Quinton McCracken.

And you might want to re-read my initial post as I clearly stated that we'd know whether or not moving Ross was a good idea after the "Later" in "PTBNL". There's no "rush to judgement" here, but there's also no reason we can't exercise our ability to properly analyze the situational dynamics surrounding the move.

alexad
05-27-2006, 02:48 PM
It may have come down to this....Q does not mind sitting on the bench getting an occassional start or pinch hit appearance. Ross is young and sitting on the major league bench is not helping him in the long run. (See Pena). I like what Krivs did on this. He is showing other players around the league that Cincinnati is a great place to play and when your time is up, we will help you find a new home, (see Williams).:)

captainmorgan07
05-27-2006, 03:04 PM
one thing most ppl forget is q lead the national league with 20 some pinch hits last year

SteelSD
05-27-2006, 03:20 PM
one thing most ppl forget is q lead the national league with 20 some pinch hits last year

Quinton McCracken as Pinch Hitter:

2005: .321 OBP/.292 SLG

2003-2005: .312 OBP/.310 SLG

2003-2005 OVERALL Batting: .305 OBP/.313 SLG

Awful.

Raisor
05-27-2006, 03:27 PM
Quinton McCracken as Pinch Hitter:

2005: .321 OBP/.292 SLG




But his name starts with "Q". He at least gets some of James Bonds' left overs.

reds44
05-27-2006, 03:30 PM
I love arguments about the 25th man.

:duel:

I would have kept Ross over Q, but I'm not losing sleep over it.

SteelSD
05-27-2006, 03:31 PM
But his name starts with "Q". He at least gets some of James Bonds' left overs.

Why? You had to dump all of 'em after the wedding?

"My name is Raisor. Phil Raisor. I'd like a Heineken; shaken, not stirre...oh wait a min...crap..."

KronoRed
05-27-2006, 04:40 PM
I love arguments about the 25th man.

:duel:

I would have kept Ross over Q, but I'm not losing sleep over it.
Well when you have 3 catchers and 12 pitchers the 25th guy become a little more important ;)