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View Full Version : Who else saw "X-Men: The Last Stand"?



Michael Allred
05-28-2006, 08:52 PM
Yes I saw X3 today. Get ready for some non-sensical gibberish courtesy of moi!

Where to start?

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I had extremely LOW expectations for X3 when Bryan Singer left and Brett Ratner was hired. Ratner's films ranged from so-so to decent, certainly not up to the standards of Singer's work. In my opinion, Singer started off a brilliant trilogy and it's a damn shame he didn't finish it (I would've rather seen Guilermo Del Toro direct X3 than Ratner.) I certainly hope "Superman Returns" ends up being good enough to excuse his departure from the "X-Men" franchise.

Anyway, the film was far too short. With this cast of characters, you NEED more time to develop them on screen or in the case of some, give their deaths more dramatic weight.

I'm no fan of Cyclops but damn did he get the short end of the stick in this trilogy or what? He doesn't even get the dignity of dying on screen?

The CGI used to make Prof. X and Magneto look so young was remarkable. Just stunning. Perhaps we'll be seeing more of this in Hollywood, especially with older actors in action films?

Kelsey Grammar was perfectly cast as Beast but I don't think they effectively captured the character, it was 'Beast highlights.'

I never cared for Rogue, it doesn't bother me in the slightest if she's never used in another sequel. Yeah yeah, I know all about the comic book history but we're talking about the *movies* here and things HAVE to change in the adaptation.

"Killing" Prof. X really sucked the life out of the theater I was in. Nobody seemed like they wanted that to happen. Jesus, completely obliterating the guy into nothing? Seems a bit harsh.

Speaking of harsh, did you find it odd how coldly Magneto reacted to Mystique after she *saved* him from the cure gun and was turned into a human? "You're not one of us any more"? "She used to be so beautiful"? DAMN! I had to laugh when she ended up betraying Magneto later in the film, telling the government where his camp was. I would've liked to see Magneto react with a tad more sadness to Xavier's death, hell I would've prefered his whole death scene be treated as something more horrific, like if you were watching your father being murdered.

The Iceman vs Pyro fight was rather anti-climactic and I think that we really could've done without the one-liners. "I'm the Juggernaut *****"? Rather juvenile don't you think? Sticking with Juggs, his muscle suit looked ridiculous. In this day and age of special FX, we can't make a realistic looking rubber suit? I was disappointed they made him a mutant and threw away his relationship with Xavier. I had also been hoping to see a full throttle fight between him and Colossus (which would've give the "tin man" something to do other than carry large TVs with ease.)

I'm not going to get into Storm too much. I have always HATED Halle Berry in the role. She's a girl scout, nothing more. Angela Basset would've been the perfect fit. I'm glad she won't be playing superheroes any more.

Enjoyed the "look" Jean Grey had as Phoenix, when she went nuts she had a real demonic look to her. Very cool. I dug how the whole environment around her went bat**** at the end.

It's clear to me Angel was merely being introduced and will get a more prominent role in X4 (which we ALL KNOW will happen.)

Magneto has been my favorite so far and while I wouldn't necessarily approve of all his methods, he was clearly in the right in X3. Just why in the hell did the X-Men stand off against him at the end? Traitors indeed. The "cure" clearly wasn't being treated as solely a choice any more, *I* would've tried to kill Leech as well. It was seriously pissing me off how they showed Mags being much weaker in this film, Phoenix threatening him with the cure (couldn't he have simply brought some metal projectiles somewhere and knock them away?) and of course actually getting it at the hands of Beast. I did *not* want to see him as some helpless old man in an old folks home. Thankfully it appeared his powers were coming back as he could move the chess piece at the end which begs the question...

Is this cure permanent? Does it react differently to each individual? Will some get their powers back and others won't?

It's clear Ratner was not a good choice for the film. I can appreciate he didn't try to make it "his" movie and try to fit it into Singer's vision but the problem is that he just isn't as talented as Singer is and X3 looks like a poor copycat.

I suppose I could have dealt with the changes/deaths in the film had they been written better and of course had the balls to stick with it at the end but virtually everything was a cop out. Prof. X's mind was transferred to that comatose guy (when Patrick Stewart's voice is heard, is it actually his speaking voice or was he telepathically communicating with Moira?) Assuming Xavier comes back in X4, will Stewart just be doing voice over? Granted we never got a look at the comatose body but he can't look like Xavier THAT much.

Too bad Nightcrawler wasn't in it but I got the impression from the X3 game that all the fighting and violence wasn't for him and left the group (the game's pretty good BTW, Cumming provides the voice. Sabretooth's in the game as well and the actor who played him in X1 voices him too.)

The FX was pretty damn good throughout (contrary to what I've been reading this past week.)

The love triangle (if you can call it that) between Iceman, Rogue and Kitty was hardly fleshed out and barely made an impression at all. Plus, could Iceman *be* any more of a wuss?

I would say the Danger Room sequence was not what fans had been hoping for all these years. One cheap Sentinel head? You never see it cut off by Wolverine either. Kinda lame if you ask me. I'll also echo other responses I've read about the music, where was it? The X2 score blew it out of the water.

Overall, X3 was not the big fiasco I was fearing but it's a huge let down from the high of X2. It's looking like it will break the $100 million mark this weekend so when FOX greenlights X4, here's to hoping there isn't a "Superman" sequel in the works.

Bryan, please come back.

I know my comments have been mostly negative but I don't wanna give the impression I hated it. I didn't, it was (like all of Ratner's work) ok but the franchise needed something better than "ok."

If they're doing that Wolverine solo story, I think it would've been cool if Magneto did rip the adamantium from his bones at the end of X3. It would've made an interesting story to continue with (Wolvy's far too strong in the films now.)

X3 gets a C from me.


Those are my scattershot thoughts on X3. I hope it wasn't too damn confusing to read.

Falls City Beer
05-28-2006, 09:05 PM
I agree on almost all of your points, Michael.

Phoenix's story is the most dramatic; stick with it. Even if it means excluding the story of the new characters.

It felt like a committee-made movie, not the sole vision of one director. That's what killed it for me.

savafan
05-28-2006, 09:31 PM
I'm not familar with Ratner's work. What are some of his other films?

KronoRed
05-28-2006, 09:37 PM
I'm not familar with Ratner's work. What are some of his other films?
Rush Hour 1, 2 and 3 ;)

Hobo
05-28-2006, 09:41 PM
I liked it overall, though it does leave alot to be desired. Cyclops lack of involvement left me wanting.

Reds Fanatic
05-28-2006, 09:43 PM
I agree with both of you. This was by far the worst of the Xmen movies. When the last movie ended you knew the focus of this movie should be the Phoenix character. If done right that could have been a really great 3rd movie. But there was so much else thrown in that it just kind of became a mess. I had a feeling this movie was in trouble under Ratner and unfortunately I was right. This movie really felt rushed in a lot of scenes. There were characters introduced with really not much to do. Major characters die and they rush on to the next scene. This film just seemed like a bunch of FX scenes put together you never really care about the characters in the movie.

savafan
05-28-2006, 09:53 PM
I think they tried to add too many characters. That works in a TV series or mini-series, but not in a movie.

captainmorgan07
05-28-2006, 10:07 PM
i still might see the movie the other 2 were quality movies i can't believe they kill off proffessor x i never did like cyclops he's more of the main character in the cartoon but not the movies they seem to focus on wolverine(my personal favorite) in the movies

Michael Allred
05-28-2006, 11:58 PM
$107 million opening weekend...4th best all time. Wow. If anything this tells FOX they never had to bother with a quality script in the first place.

DoogMinAmo
05-29-2006, 12:41 AM
FYI, Mystique turning Magneto in was a decoy. Harsh or not, she was still a part of the plan. Perhaps her involvement implied a reconciliation?

Just saw it tonight. No where near as bad as you make it sound, although I agree the deaths of 3 major characters are not given their rightful weight.

Oh yeah, those deaths mean X4 will NOT happen.

GAC
05-29-2006, 05:56 AM
Took my 10 yr old son to see it Saturday. We've seen all three.

IMO, the movie was alright. I may not give the most reliable opinion since I was raised, and use to, the original X-Men when they came out in the 60's. So I am prejudiced. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/6c/Uncanny1.jpg/180px-Uncanny1.jpg

The characters have been changed, and various new ones added, that I've completely lost track of whose who.

I agree with some of the points made above though.

Cyclops really got a raw deal. And personally, I think Dr X did too.

My son really enjoyed it.

Michael Allred
05-29-2006, 04:25 PM
FYI, Mystique turning Magneto in was a decoy. Harsh or not, she was still a part of the plan. Perhaps her involvement implied a reconciliation?

Just saw it tonight. No where near as bad as you make it sound, although I agree the deaths of 3 major characters are not given their rightful weight.

Oh yeah, those deaths mean X4 will NOT happen.

How was it a decoy? Magneto turned his back on her, she ratted him out. She was not privy to his decoy plans with Multiple Man as that clearly was devised *after* she was "cured."

Was your last sentence sarcasm?

WVRed
05-29-2006, 05:36 PM
FYI, Mystique turning Magneto in was a decoy. Harsh or not, she was still a part of the plan. Perhaps her involvement implied a reconciliation?

Just saw it tonight. No where near as bad as you make it sound, although I agree the deaths of 3 major characters are not given their rightful weight.

Oh yeah, those deaths mean X4 will NOT happen.

Who says they can't come back?

The rumor going around is that they are working on solo Magneto and Wolverine movies.

WVRed
05-30-2006, 03:23 PM
Finally saw it, and I honestly thought it didnt live up to the hype.

I wouldnt be surprised if they come out with a 4th movie, but they need to just stop with this one. Sure, Magneto, Rogue, and Mystique could have only had a temporary suppression of their powers, and Professor X could be revived, but by the time it would take to explain it, it would make for a rather dull movie.

Whether or not Mystique was truly aligned with Magneto after he abandoned her is something we will never know unless a 4th X-movie is made.

I agree with Sava on too many new characters being used. Although Kitty and Colossus were used in the second movie in sparing roles, the influx of the Brotherhood really took the focus off what made the X-Men movies great.

beb30
05-30-2006, 03:36 PM
I really enjoyed the movie they defintely left it open for the possibility of an X-4 based on how it ended.

I heard that after the credits they had an extra scene where apparently Prof X is revived or something did anyone else see or hear of this?

Reds Fanatic
05-30-2006, 03:54 PM
I heard that after the credits they had an extra scene where apparently Prof X is revived or something did anyone else see or hear of this?
I heard the same thing today about a scene with Prof X after the credits. I did know there was a scence after the credits so I did not see it but there is something about Prof X at the end of the credits.

Michael Allred
05-30-2006, 04:34 PM
I heard the same thing today about a scene with Prof X after the credits. I did know there was a scence after the credits so I did not see it but there is something about Prof X at the end of the credits.

Read my first post. His mind has been transfered to the comatose patient seen near the beginning of the film so he's still "alive."

GAC
05-30-2006, 06:28 PM
Read my first post. His mind has been transfered to the comatose patient seen near the beginning of the film so he's still "alive."

You mean like Spock and McCoy huh? :lol:

WVRed
05-30-2006, 08:34 PM
Read my first post. His mind has been transfered to the comatose patient seen near the beginning of the film so he's still "alive."

I had read somewhere that was a hoax, but it happened in the comics, so I wouldn't be surprised.

Keep in mind Cyclops didn't "die" on screen. I wouldn't be surprised if he and Jean somehow came back.

beb30
05-31-2006, 12:21 PM
Somebody needs to die there is too much crap in this movie for all these people coming back to life.......

RedsFan75
05-31-2006, 12:57 PM
The X-Men Comics were full of people dying, or mysteriously disappearing, being cloned, coming back to life or being found, of the main characters I can think of off the top of my head that went through the dying/disappearing process were Jean/Phoenix, Professor X, Cyclops, Rogue, Iceman, Wolverine and that's just thinking through it quickly. Angel was always leaving, and so was Colosus.

Jean is resurrected by the Phoenix Force at least a couple times in the comics and Scott and Jean have a son ( Cable) that's integral to the series, although maybe that's not hit in the (possible) future movies.

So the comics give them all kind of leeway to really kill/resurrect whomever they feel like as the precedent has been set, so really if there's a 4th it will be curious if for nothing else to see where they go with it.

DoogMinAmo
05-31-2006, 01:47 PM
How was it a decoy? Magneto turned his back on her, she ratted him out. She was not privy to his decoy plans with Multiple Man as that clearly was devised *after* she was "cured."

Was your last sentence sarcasm?

But that does not mean they did not have contact after he "scorned" her. Frankly, it all seemed too coincidental that she "ratted" Magneto out, and it happened to work to his advantage when he needed a distraction.

As far as sarcasm, no. Conjecture would lead me to say it is highly unlikely.

Steve4192
06-01-2006, 02:48 PM
So the comics give them all kind of leeway to really kill/resurrect whomever they feel like as the precedent has been set
Ya'll are thinking way too linear.

They could easilly bring everyone back by changing the timeline. If they bring in the Cable/Bishop timetravel storylines they can undo the entire X1 to X3 progression by having them tinker with the past.

Same goes for a Wolverine movie. They could set the movie in Weapon X days or even earlier, long before he met Prof X and became an X-man.

Sabo Fan
06-01-2006, 07:33 PM
I'm no professional movie critic, but a few random thoughts from someone who enjoyed the first two movies a good bit but doesn't know a lot about the comic book versions of the X-Men:

My biggest gripe isn't so much about what happened to him in this movie, but the overall treatment of Cyclops in the three films was terrible. Someone ought to sue on behalf of Cyclops for character assassination. The way they used him in this series should be considered a crime. He's the leader of the X-Men in the field and is second only to Professor X in the hierarchy and in the movies he's less than second fiddle to Wolverine. It's like they took all of Cyclops' good traits and gave them to Wolverine (leadership most prominently) and then gave some of Wolverine's characteristics (most notably being a jackass) to Cyclops. Likely it boils down to Wolverine being a more marketable character. So they treat him like dirt for two movies and then to top it all off he gets an offscreen death? Ridiculous.

Kelsey Grammar as Beast was one of the few highpoints of this movie. Great choice to play the part and the action sequences looked pretty good as well. Hopefully if they make more X-movies after this he'll be included.

Another issue with the overall series that culminated in this movie: Rogue was a waste. I understand her importance in the first movie, but after that she didn't do anything at all other than yearn for Iceman and do the whole "I can't ever touch anyone" routine. You are incapable of physical contact, we get it, lets move on.

Iceman finally turning completely into ice was cool to see, but the Bobby Drake character had so much unrealized potential. Why they made him into such a wuss I'll never know.

Liked the way they did the whole Phoenix thing and how they stayed away from alien involvement unlike in the cartoon and the comics. Points for that move. However, I have to subtract points for the way Jean died. I'm ok with the whole self-sacrifice thing and all, but having Wolverine do it just goes to show how Wolvie-centric this whole franchise has been. In the movies, they've know each other for what, three or four years? And for all that time Jean was married to Cyclops. The whole relationship centered around Wolverine trying to force his way in and Jean rejecting him, a pretty one-sided relationship. The emotion is all one-sided there. Now, had they not screwed Cyclops up so bad, you could have him be the one to have to kill Jean and really get a great ending, but instead you're force-fed Wolverine.

So the main storyline is this supposed cure for mutation, right? So if the majority of the movie is based around the impact of this discovery, why do you build it up so much and then go and essentially undermine it at the end of the movie with the scene involving Magneto and the chess pieces? Maybe not every mutant will regain their powers, but who cares, most of them aren't major players. Magneto losing his powers is a big deal and they negated the whole thing.

SteelSD
06-01-2006, 07:52 PM
I wish Professor X could give me some mental blocks so I could just forget that X3 exists.

All I can say is that I bet there was one actual comic book guy in the room when the plot, storyline, and dialogue were devised. And he should have been given a helmet as he was most likely banging his head against the table repeatedly in response to the freely flowing bad ideas from whichever morons had control over the resulting cesspool of bad that was X3. There really isn't a word in the English language to describe how awful that movie was.

Hoosier Red
06-01-2006, 08:13 PM
All the new characters in the movie left me wanting.
I think Kelsey Grammer can make a great Beast, but really was undeveloped. I was pretty much completely unimpressed with well everyone else.

I like how XMen is not the least bit subtle in its real life allegories.

savafan
06-02-2006, 02:03 AM
I think a big problem with the Cyclops character is that he is played by this guy:

http://www.kinoweb.de/film2001/SugarAndSpice/pix/ssp4.jpg

RedsFan75
06-02-2006, 08:57 AM
Sabo. Excellent analysis, very good points, especially on the Wolverine focus.

Although, one minor thing I'll mention, Wolverine killing Phoenix is one point where they did stay with the Comic book storylines, as I think Wolverine killed Jean about 3 times or so, and of course the Phoenix Force resurrected her each time, but like I said one minor point in your otherwise excellent view of it.

I think you nailed it, as I didn't overtly notice the Cyclops/Wolverine trait swap until you mentioned it but now, it's very clear to me that's what they did. Scott/Cyclops was the hot-heat ready to blast everyone and everything, when in the Comics Wolverine was 'feral' and ready to slash everyone and thing.

Johnny Footstool
06-02-2006, 09:31 AM
I think a big problem with the Cyclops character is that he is played by this guy:

http://www.kinoweb.de/film2001/SugarAndSpice/pix/ssp4.jpg

James Marsden is a decent actor when they give him something worthwhile to do. That's why Brian Singer gave him a role in "Superman Returns." The problem with Cyclops is that they designated him to be this sniveling, jealous, ineffectual little worm instead of being true to the comic book character.

savafan
06-02-2006, 01:39 PM
James Marsden is a decent actor when they give him something worthwhile to do. That's why Brian Singer gave him a role in "Superman Returns." The problem with Cyclops is that they designated him to be this sniveling, jealous, ineffectual little worm instead of being true to the comic book character.

I see very little acting talent in Marsden's roles.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005188/

I've seen a lot of those, and the only performance that I'd call passable was in "The Notebook"

Johnny Footstool
06-02-2006, 03:35 PM
No one could have made Cyclops' role seem interesting in any of the X-men films.

savafan
06-02-2006, 03:52 PM
No one could have made Cyclops' role seem interesting in any of the X-men films.

William Shatner could have.

;)

Reds Fanatic
06-02-2006, 04:08 PM
This article from Usa Today reveals some of the future X men movie plans. Looks like they are planning movies based on individual Xmen characters. The 1st is going to be a Wolverine movie that Hugh Jackman has already signed on for that one. Then they are deleoping a script for a movie about Magneto when he was younger. A third movie is for the character Emma Frost who was in the X men comic books but has not been in any of the movies.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2006-06-01-coming-attractions_x.htm

savafan
06-02-2006, 04:28 PM
A third movie is for the character Emma Frost who was in the X men comic books but has not been in any of the movies.

http://www.usatoday.com/life/2006-06-01-coming-attractions_x.htm

The White Queen. One of my favorite characters.