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Kc61
05-29-2006, 11:08 PM
Felipe Lopez' fielding percentage is .946. EE's is .890.

Together they have just about half of the Reds' major league leading 47 errors.

Growing pains or a real problem?

OldRightHander
05-29-2006, 11:24 PM
I would like to think what we're seeing is a case of growing pains. Most of the errors seem to be more physical than mental, and it's the mental errors that seem harder to take.

KronoRed
05-29-2006, 11:26 PM
Growing pains for EE, a concerning issue for Lopez

harangatang
05-29-2006, 11:55 PM
Lopez is more of a concern than EE but I think they both have a chance to settle down and play much better defense in the order of errors. People tend to forget Larkin made 29 errors in 1988.

reds44
05-30-2006, 12:09 AM
Is it just more or does EE have to seemed to settle down as of late? I am not as worried about EE as I am Felipe. Bad range + wild arm= problems for Felipe.

RedsManRick
05-30-2006, 12:11 AM
That Larkin logic bugs me.

1.) We have a SS committing lots of errors

2.) We once had a SS who committed lots of errors and then became a GG

3.) Therefore, no need to worry about our current SS.

For every Larkin that had a bad year and got better, there are 10 guys who had a bad year BECAUSE THEY WERE BAD. Lopez's erractic arm has shown no signs of improving. Futhermore, our current stock of 1B exacerbates the issue. Meanwhile, we have a plus defending SS playing 2B. I'm not in the 'switch them now' camp. But if it's not considered in the offseason, that will be quite frustrating.

deltachi8
05-30-2006, 09:33 AM
Im not really concerned about Edwin, his range is terrific, he has a strong arm and is very young, it will all come together for him in time.

FeLo I am a bit more concerned with. Basically, I think he is miscast as a SS and the Reds should give serious thought to moving him to 2b.

Red Heeler
05-30-2006, 10:08 AM
That Larkin logic bugs me.

1.) We have a SS committing lots of errors

2.) We once had a SS who committed lots of errors and then became a GG

3.) Therefore, no need to worry about our current SS.

For every Larkin that had a bad year and got better, there are 10 guys who had a bad year BECAUSE THEY WERE BAD. Lopez's erractic arm has shown no signs of improving. Futhermore, our current stock of 1B exacerbates the issue. Meanwhile, we have a plus defending SS playing 2B. I'm not in the 'switch them now' camp. But if it's not considered in the offseason, that will be quite frustrating.

Good point. The errors would be less of a concern for Lopez if he had Larkin-like range. His errors become more of a problem because he doesn't get to a whole lot of balls.

EdE on the other hand minimalizes the effect of his errors by getting to more balls than nearly any other 3B in the majors. That is what bugs me about the thought that Aurillia is a better defender. Sure, there is a greater chance that EdE might make an error, but he will also stop a lot of balls that would be doubles with Aurillia at 3B.

RedsManRick
05-30-2006, 10:49 AM
Exactly, I think Lopez could be a very solid 2B. He's athletic, he just don't get a great jump and doesn't have the raw burst speed to make up for it. A move to 2B would minimize that issue and also should help with the accuracy issues.

I also agree with your take on EE. He has GG range, but again it's his throwing. Furthermore, we do NOT have a better option there, unlike Phillips and SS. EE is 3 years younger than Felipe. If he's still throwing balls in to the 3rd row on a regular basis in 2008, I'd have a similar suggestion.

BrooklynRedz
05-30-2006, 11:01 AM
If the Reds are going to consider moving Lopez to 2B, I'd rather see them look to move him. The market is going to be much greater for a good-hitting SS (albeit one with defensive shortcomings) than it will be for a good-hitting 2B. Perhaps my logic is all wrong on this one, but I'm of the opinion that Lopez would net us a really good package (including starting pitching help). If you swap him to 2b, you'll see that return diminish (if not disappear) and face further hurdles with the price he seeks in free agency.

Kc61
05-30-2006, 12:18 PM
If the Reds are going to consider moving Lopez to 2B, I'd rather see them look to move him. The market is going to be much greater for a good-hitting SS (albeit one with defensive shortcomings) than it will be for a good-hitting 2B. Perhaps my logic is all wrong on this one, but I'm of the opinion that Lopez would net us a really good package (including starting pitching help). If you swap him to 2b, you'll see that return diminish (if not disappear) and face further hurdles with the price he seeks in free agency.

I would switch the positions of Phillips and Lopez and do it as soon as Phillips returns from injury. I wouldn't trade either.

Lopez is a plus offensive middle infielder. Even at second base, he is much better offensively than most. His trade value may be higher at shortstop, but his playing value (as a Red) is higher at second, where his throwing problems would be less of an issue.

Phillips is a great athlete. I would certainly give him the full shot at shortstop. At second base, he is not a high error guy; hopefully that would carry over to his new position.

As for timing, I see no reason to wait. The team isn't playing well, the defense is awful. Lopez has played second (I know he did at AAA) and Phillips has played short. I would just make the move and give it some time to work out.

As for EE, I agree he should get more time to cut down the errors.

princeton
05-30-2006, 12:40 PM
Reds aren't going to switch Lopez to 2nd, so it's a silly argument. There was a time to move him, and it already passed. If he continues to hit, then his next move is to 3rd base. But he also will improve at SS, and if paired with a very good second baseman, then he's a big asset. Enjoy him.

The Reds have paired him with a good second baseman, which was the right move. The other right move is a rangy CFer

Kc61
05-30-2006, 12:45 PM
Reds aren't going to switch Lopez to 2nd, so it's a silly argument. There was a time to move him, and it already passed. If he continues to hit, then his next move is to 3rd base. But he also will improve at SS, and if paired with a very good second baseman, then he's a big asset. Enjoy him.

The Reds have paired him with a good second baseman, which was the right move. The other right move is a rangy CFer

Reds kept FeLo at short, but that was before they had Phillips. We'll see if they move him.

Agree 100 percent about centerfield.

princeton
05-30-2006, 01:02 PM
Reds kept FeLo at short, but that was before they had Phillips. .

Phillips isn't the type of player for whom you move other players. Phillips has to go where there's an open spot and hope that he doesn't screw it up.

Lopez is a player that gets to play where he wants, until the day that he gets dealt.

flyer85
05-30-2006, 01:16 PM
FRAA for 2006

EE(-8), Hatty(-5), FeLo(-4), BP(-3), RA(0) at 1B and 3b

of note for the OF Dunn(-4) Jr(-2) AK(2) and Freel-CF(2)

Red Heeler
05-30-2006, 01:35 PM
Phillips isn't the type of player for whom you move other players. Phillips has to go where there's an open spot and hope that he doesn't screw it up.

Lopez is a player that gets to play where he wants, until the day that he gets dealt.

I agree with you that the time to change Felipe's position has come and gone. I'll enjoy his production as long as he is around, but I wouldn't look to break the bank to keep him. I would be trolling around for a team whose window is around now-ish with a stud SS in the making at AA or above.

TeamBoone
05-30-2006, 02:06 PM
Lopez is a player that gets to play where he wants, until the day that he gets dealt.

Hmmmm, but Dunn isn't? Just curious why that is as he's made many more errors than Dunn (granted, SS is harder than LF).

KronoRed
05-30-2006, 02:31 PM
I agree with you that the time to change Felipe's position has come and gone. I'll enjoy his production as long as he is around, but I wouldn't look to break the bank to keep him. I would be trolling around for a team whose window is around now-ish with a stud SS in the making at AA or above.
Lopez is already gone considering who his agent is, if the Reds fall out of it the time to deal him would be this year.

princeton
05-30-2006, 03:41 PM
Hmmmm, but Dunn isn't?

hmm, but Dunn is. You'll notice that he's playing where he likes.

Red Heeler
05-30-2006, 08:34 PM
Lopez is already gone considering who his agent is, if the Reds fall out of it the time to deal him would be this year.

If the Reds fall and Arizona stays in the hunt, Kriv should be on the phone with the Josh Byrnes daily. Lopez for Steven Drew and Scott Hairston.

Highlifeman21
06-06-2006, 09:51 AM
If the Reds are going to consider moving Lopez to 2B, I'd rather see them look to move him. The market is going to be much greater for a good-hitting SS (albeit one with defensive shortcomings) than it will be for a good-hitting 2B. Perhaps my logic is all wrong on this one, but I'm of the opinion that Lopez would net us a really good package (including starting pitching help). If you swap him to 2b, you'll see that return diminish (if not disappear) and face further hurdles with the price he seeks in free agency.


I couldn't have said it any better.

With Lopez having Scott Boras as an agent, I'm concerned about Lopez signing long term in the Queen City. I also think that Boras would convince Lopez to resist a move to 2B, as it would diminish his market value.

That being said, while I would love to see Lopez on a LTC playing 2B, or maybe even 3B for the Reds, I think this might be a case where his perceived value might net us the pitching we need to compete and establish our franchise for 2007 and beyond.

I think Lopez offers a lot to the Reds in terms of offensive value, but until we move Lopez to 2B or 3B, he's a defensive liability due to lack of range and that less than accurate arm.