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View Full Version : Baseball's top 10 'records' ... without the home runs



NastyBoy
05-31-2006, 11:13 AM
In case you missed it, interesting article by Jason Stark...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark--jayson&id=2433030

dabvu2498
05-31-2006, 11:21 AM
I'm lazy and I assume everyone else is.

1. Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak
2. Ted Williams last player to hit .400
3. Pete Rose 4256 career hits
4. Denny McClain's 30 wins in 1968
5. Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak
6. Orel Hershiser's 59 consecutive scoreless innings in 1988
7. Hack Wilson's 191 RBI in 1930
8. Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA in 1968
9. Rickey Henderson's 130 stolen bases in 1982
10. Nolan Ryan's 383 K's in 1973

Some good analysis in the article. I'm going to read a little more before I post an opinion.

registerthis
05-31-2006, 11:26 AM
I dunno, Rose's hit record has always been the most impressive stat to me. That one could average 200 hits a year for 21 seasons and STILL be 57 hits shy of breaking Rose's record is seemingly incomprehensible. Second would have to be Gibson's 1.12 ERA, that's just astounding.

Ripken's streak is equally impressive, if not directly related to any defined baseball skill. I don't think either Rose's or Ripken's streaks will ever be broken, but I'm wagering that DiMaggio's will, as will Aaron's.

dabvu2498
05-31-2006, 11:31 AM
I'll give my opinion on which of these records will be broken on my lifetime (assuming no major rules changes), in percentage form.


1. Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak - 20%
2. Ted Williams last player to hit .400 - 45%
3. Pete Rose 4256 career hits - 10%
4. Denny McClain's 30 wins in 1968 - 20%
5. Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak - 1%
6. Orel Hershiser's 59 consecutive scoreless innings in 1988 - 10%
7. Hack Wilson's 191 RBI in 1930 - 50%
8. Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA in 1968 - 5%
9. Rickey Henderson's 130 stolen bases in 1982 - 5%
10. Nolan Ryan's 383 K's in 1973 - 5%

Never say never.

cumberlandreds
05-31-2006, 11:54 AM
A record that is extremely impressive and unbreakable is Cy Young's all time win record of 511. I know it was in a different era and time but 511 wins is impressive know matter when. For that matter 2nd place on this list won't even be approached. Walter Johnson's 417 wins. Since starters only go out there about 35 times a season in this era a 300 win pitcher will become very rare.

MartyFan
05-31-2006, 01:10 PM
Most impressive to me.

Single Season Hit Streak
Hit record
Single Season ERA
Single Season SB's

CaiGuy
05-31-2006, 01:15 PM
Hit streaks are overrated.

I do agree that the SB, hit, ERA, consecutive games, and win records are all impressive, and I honestly doubt that they will be broken. Of course, people think that about a lot of records...

westofyou
05-31-2006, 01:16 PM
Assists by pitchers in a season.

Never shall it be broken.


ASSISTS YEAR A PO
Ed Walsh 1907 227 35
Ed Walsh 1908 190 41
Harry Howell 1905 178 21
Jack Chesbro 1904 166 24
George Mullin 1904 163 28
Ed Walsh 1911 159 27
Frank Smith 1909 154 26
Ed Walsh 1910 154 21
Addie Joss 1907 143 21
Harry Howell 1904 143 26

CaiGuy
05-31-2006, 01:23 PM
Assists by pitchers in a season.

Never shall it be broken.

We have a winner...

2001MUgrad
05-31-2006, 07:34 PM
Nolan Ryan's nono at what 42 or 43, that is pretty impressive as well in my book for number 7.

OldRightHander
05-31-2006, 08:19 PM
Assists by pitchers in a season.

Never shall it be broken.


ASSISTS YEAR A PO
Ed Walsh 1907 227 35
Ed Walsh 1908 190 41
Harry Howell 1905 178 21
Jack Chesbro 1904 166 24
George Mullin 1904 163 28
Ed Walsh 1911 159 27
Frank Smith 1909 154 26
Ed Walsh 1910 154 21
Addie Joss 1907 143 21
Harry Howell 1904 143 26

Wow. That's impressive.

westofyou
05-31-2006, 08:31 PM
Wow. That's impressive.
Nine of the ten are spitballers, here's my favorite part.

Harry Howell’s 5.3 assist per nine innings in 1905 with the Browns was the best rate for all of the pitchers above. The SS record for assist is 621 by Ozzie and that was only 4.0 assists a game, the best 2nd baseman is Frisch with 4.2 assists a game in 1927. Howell averaged 2.4 K's a game, so he accounted for 7.75 of the teams outs in a deadball/low strikeout game.

Pretty impressive imo, anyway here's more about it here (http://baseballminutia.com/blog/2006/05/30/baseball-archelogy-fielding-minutia/).

NastyBoy
05-31-2006, 10:29 PM
Thats not too suprising. Spitballers and a dead ball.

here is an interesting site "dead" ball era site... its pretty strange.

http://www.thedeadballera.com/

JEA
05-31-2006, 10:45 PM
It's always surprised me that Orel's streak of 59 scoreless innings doesn't get more attention.

Really, it's just astounding. Imagine a guy throwing back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back-back complete game shutouts (and then five more shutout innings in his next start). Granted, it's even more astounding being a Reds fan. ;)

It even has a Hollywood-like background to it. Orel entered his last start of the 1988 season needing 10 more scoreless innings to break the streak. He pitched nine scoreless innings, but the score was tied 0-0. And partially at the urging of former Dodger Hall of Famer Don Drysdale (who held the record with 58 scoreless innings), Orel threw one more inning and he broke the record.

Redhook
06-01-2006, 12:16 AM
I'll give my opinion on which of these records will be broken on my lifetime (assuming no major rules changes), in percentage form.


1. Joe DiMaggio's 56 game hit streak - 20% 1% No one has been close
2. Ted Williams last player to hit .400 - 45% 20% Guys have come reasonably close
3. Pete Rose 4256 career hits - 10% Dido
4. Denny McClain's 30 wins in 1968 - 20% 1% I don't see it happening
5. Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak - 1% 5%
6. Orel Hershiser's 59 consecutive scoreless innings in 1988 - 10% 20%
7. Hack Wilson's 191 RBI in 1930 - 50% 75% - Albert Pujols
8. Bob Gibson's 1.12 ERA in 1968 - 5% 10% - Clemens, at 42, was't way off this last year....still very improbable
9. Rickey Henderson's 130 stolen bases in 1982 - 5% 1% Wow, almost 1 bag/game
10. Nolan Ryan's 383 K's in 1973 - 5% 15% Could someone throw 105 mph someday?

Never say never.

Great list! All of these records are phenomenal with some being unbelievable. I put my predictions and thoughts in bold.

OldRightHander
06-01-2006, 12:40 AM
Nine of the ten are spitballers, here's my favorite part.

Harry Howell’s 5.3 assist per nine innings in 1905 with the Browns was the best rate for all of the pitchers above. The SS record for assist is 621 by Ozzie and that was only 4.0 assists a game, the best 2nd baseman is Frisch with 4.2 assists a game in 1927. Howell averaged 2.4 K's a game, so he accounted for 7.75 of the teams outs in a deadball/low strikeout game.

Pretty impressive imo, anyway here's more about it here (http://baseballminutia.com/blog/2006/05/30/baseball-archelogy-fielding-minutia/).

Great write up on your site there. The difference in the way the game was played then surely makes for a couple interesting stat lines. I had always figured that when you have guys hitting the ball harder, pitchers aren't going to get too many chances. That assumption was always based on my experiences as a softball pitcher. When you have a game where people are consistently hitting the ball hard, which is the case in softball even more than in baseball, I just don't get too many bona fide chances to get an assist. I had three in one game a couple weeks ago, but that was something of an oddity. A couple of them were smoked and just happened to find my glove.

NastyBoy
06-01-2006, 03:34 AM
Great write up on your site there. The difference in the way the game was played then surely makes for a couple interesting stat lines. I had always figured that when you have guys hitting the ball harder, pitchers aren't going to get too many chances. That assumption was always based on my experiences as a softball pitcher. When you have a game where people are consistently hitting the ball hard, which is the case in softball even more than in baseball, I just don't get too many bona fide chances to get an assist. I had three in one game a couple weeks ago, but that was something of an oddity. A couple of them were smoked and just happened to find my glove.

One correlation that you can make thats similar softball, the same ball was usually used for the entire game..