Buyers or Sellers?

[RedLegSuperStar]

It's early but with the way things are going at the moment the Reds are slipping further from the top of Division and further from the top of the Wild Card. I still have to think the Reds will be Buyers come the July 31st deadline. With us playing the likes of Houston, St. Louis, Chicago, and Milwalkee all within the next two weeks.. we could easily be right back in it or out of it.

My question is if we are "Buyers" who do we go after?

If we are "Sellers" who do we deal?

[redsfan30]

I would love to make a run, but I think we all know deep down inside that we probably won't (:().

I would be in favor of a complete firesale...much like Florida has done. Let's just build this thing from the ground up and get all the top prospects we can.

[MattyHo4Life]

I would be in favor of a complete firesale...much like Florida has done. Let's just build this thing from the ground up and get all the top prospects we can.

Seriously?

[dabvu2498]

We still have a month and a half before we get to that stage of anxiety.

[kbrake]

I would make some litte trades to bring in some minor league talent. As far as unloading big name guys, Felipe Lopez comes to mind, I would prolly wait until the offseason.

[redsfan30]

Seriously?
Yep. If we could get extremely high ceiling prospects that are near Major League ready, I'd be in agreeance with it.

Sure it would hurt to lose all our favorites, but it might be the best thing for this franchise right now.

[Newman4]

I'll bite. If we are buyers.....Tony Armas Jr. 3.67 ERA, .703 OPSA, making 2.1 million this year and is a FA to be. Nats will be in firesale mode, pluck him before someone else does.

[RedLegSuperStar]

Players I'd like to move for some young talent:

Rick White
Jason LaRue
Javy Valentine
Rich Aurilia
Ryan Freel
Scott Hatteberg
Kent Mercker
David Weathers

Doubt 1/3rd of them get dealt but..

Work your magic Krivsky!

[E. Davis 44]

red leg that is who all of us would like to deal. wouldn't most teams like to deal the worst players on their team for prospects?

[smith288]

Players I'd like to move for some young talent:

Rick White - Nobody wants
Jason LaRue - Wont bring much
Javy Valentine - Possible bait
Rich Aurilia - Trade Bait
Ryan Freel - Trade Bait
Scott Hatteberg - Possible bait
Kent Mercker - Numbers against lefties aint pretty
David Weathers - Possible bait

Doubt 1/3rd of them get dealt but..

Work your magic Krivsky!

THe only ones I could foresee moving would be Aurilia and maybe Freel though.

[RedLegSuperStar]

red leg that is who all of us would like to deal. wouldn't most teams like to deal the worst players on their team for prospects?

I know I know

[KronoRed]

We should sell, not going to be able to buy enough.

[EddieMilner]

The players that would get returns:
Kearns
Dunn
Lopez
Hatterberg
Aurilla
Freel
Griffey
EE

Those are the people no one wants to trade. If we go through a firesale and keep Kearns, Dunn, and EE, I would be pretty happy if it gave us top of the line prospects. I am sick of the future of this club being in High A ball.

[Highlifeman21]

It's early but with the way things are going at the moment the Reds are slipping further from the top of Division and further from the top of the Wild Card. I still have to think the Reds will be Buyers come the July 31st deadline. With us playing the likes of Houston, St. Louis, Chicago, and Milwalkee all within the next two weeks.. we could easily be right back in it or out of it.

My question is if we are "Buyers" who do we go after?

If we are "Sellers" who do we deal?


Sell sell sell.

Guys on the sell list:
Burns
Chick
Dumatrait
Germano
Gosling
Hammond
Mercker
Milton
Weathers
White

LaRue
Valentin
Aurillia
Bergolla
Olmedo
Phillips
Votto
Freel
McCracken

Any and all on that list should be available for the "buyers" around the deadline.

[Ltlabner]

Depends on the situation/player.

Have a wild fire sale, burn it down and start over. No way. Far too soon for that and I'm sick of "rebuilding". Why panic and give people away...it makes no sense. IMO this is the mark of a bush league GM.

Trade some lower level guys (both on the big team and minors) to get some more pitching help. No problem and wouldn't think twice about it.

Trade some key players? First you have to define key players. But the guys you want to build around....I'm open to trading anyone but it has to be to get something of equal (just in a different way) or greater value.

The Kriv seems to be a man of action. I think he'll aways be making deals if he feals they will help the team. I hope he doesn't get too carried away, but I think we'll be making more deals, both around the deadline and in general.

[Reds1]

I think with these owners either way we will try to make moves that improve the team. I think they'd love to trade a catcher. If they can get a good RP for LaRue I think he'd do it. I don't think they'll be big sellers even if we were even further out of it, but at this point we are right in the hunt for the Wild Card and we face Houston and St. Louis coming up. I say if we are out of it we won't be big sellers, but we won't add. If we are in it I could see one major move that would add payroll. I personally would like to see Milton moved if he continues to do well even if we are in it.

[schroomytunes]

I would love to see us make a trade with the Rockies, they would be an ideal trading partner. So I would propose:

Reds trade)
1)Jason Larue-c
2)Travis Chick-AA pitcher
3)Elizardo Ramirez SP
and a portion of Larues salary @ 1.5mill

Rockies trade)
1)Jeff Francis-sp
2)Brian Fuentes-rp

[saboforthird]

I would love to make a run, but I think we all know deep down inside that we probably won't (:().

I would be in favor of a complete firesale...much like Florida has done. Let's just build this thing from the ground up and get all the top prospects we can.

That's a great idea...if you're a GM. Or a serious Reds fan. It won't fly, though, not in Cincinnati. The team has gone long enough without a legitimate playoffs contender, any "firesale" would be met with rolling eyes, "here we go again", and significant drops in ticket sales for a long, long time to go. If I'm the Reds, I don't do a firesale. Make the most of what you have at hand, draft well, and continue to try and find scraps of metal that will turn in chinks of gold.

[reds44]

At this point we are buyers, another few weeks of bad ball and we will be sellers.

Personally I want us to do a fire sire, and re-build the minors. That is how small market teams win.

[IslandRed]

I don't expect us to do a true fire sale even if we're sellers. Right now, every significant player is signed or under the Reds' control through at least 2007, 2008 in many cases. We have a window over the next 2-3 seasons where we can try to compete by adding onto the current core, and by then, Krivsky's guys will have a few drafts under their belts and the farm system may not suck by then. The major-league makeover isn't done by any means yet, either.

It'll be tough, but the emergency hasn't arisen to go Marlins. Our window of opportunity has not closed. Anyway, Florida is one way the total rebuild can go; Kansas City is the other. If you trust Krivsky to do the fire sale right, then maybe he can get it done without the fire sale.

[kbrake]

First year with new ownership no way do they let a real Fire Sale go down. Common fans would be pissed and it would really hurt new GM and new ownerships standing with these fans.

[Newman4]

I would love to see us make a trade with the Rockies, they would be an ideal trading partner. So I would propose:

Reds trade)
1)Jason Larue-c
2)Travis Chick-AA pitcher
3)Elizardo Ramirez SP
and a portion of Larues salary @ 1.5mill

Rockies trade)
1)Jeff Francis-sp
2)Brian Fuentes-rp

I like your thinking with the Rockies as a trading partner, but I don't think they'd go for that deal. In fact, no offense, but they may not even trade one of the two guys mentioned for that package.

[KoryMac5]

Trading for prospects is very risky buisness sometimes it works out very well and sometimes it doesn't. I would rather stay with what we have and try to improve on the core of this team. Established players like Lopez, Dunn, and Kearns are less risk than AA ball players.

[Nugget]

Given some of the suggestions wouldn't REDSZONE be better off if we traded the whole team for another one??

I'd say at this stage the REDS won't be big players at the trade deadline as they dno't really have the chips to play with in make a big run. Its not like they have top class prospects to bring in a big gun. I'd say Krivsky may look at making a few small moves if the REDS are still around the hunt for the division or wildcard. Most likely trading a prospect for a reliever and maybe a slugging outfielder (which may be more likely in September than at the deadline).

[Newman4]

Here's an interesting name: Kerry Wood. The Cubs have a 13.5 million $ option on him for 2007 or a 3 million $ buyout. I think he'll definitely be available, but would the Reds pay for him?

[Red White]

The only players I would not want to trade would be

Lopez -- young, well-rounded SS is tough to find/replace
Harang & Arroyo -- these are legitimate mid-rotation starters for a playoff-caliber team.

I think anyone else should be fair game.

Dunn -- without getting too deep into his merits as a player, he's probably the one and only player that could bring the top-line pitching prospects we need to become truly competitive.

[KronoRed]

Here's an interesting name: Kerry Wood. The Cubs have a 13.5 million $ option on him for 2007 or a 3 million $ buyout. I think he'll definitely be available, but would the Reds pay for him?
Doubt they would and I don't want him, he can't stay healthy.

[saboforthird]

Doubt they would and I don't want him, he can't stay healthy.

How much of that is due to the Dr. Whipping himself, Mr. Dusty Baker? That man really runs his starting pitchers into the ground.

[billy117]

I say sellers most likely, but some of the guys mentioned, who all of us would like to get rid of are not going anywher. LaRue?? the only way we will get rid of larue is if maybe we packaged him with dunn or EE and got a lot less than what those two are worth..or something like that. basically if we're just giving other players away for teams to take guys like larue.

[RedLegSuperStar]

I think i'm going to go with buyers. I just have a feeling the Wild Card will be a race and one that can be retaken by the Reds. Especially now with the recent injury to the Dodgers Kent. Sure he may be only one guy and sure its the 15 day DL... but I think its the hand he hurt "washing his truck"... supposedly.

[Ltlabner]

Here's an article from the cincinnati post.com that might shed some light on the discussion....

Krivsky's always prepared to deal

Column by The Post's Lonnie Wheeler

"Every day is July 31," Reds GM Wayne Krivsky says in reference to the trading deadline.


With June's steamy arrival, we've now reached the point at which the Reds, traditionally, excuse themselves from the pennant race.

In recent years, they've done this not by faltering on the field - though there's been plenty of that - but, through their screaming inactivity, by declaring themselves non-contenders for the balance of the summer.

Tonight's game in Houston will complete the first third of the 2006 schedule, a sampling surely significant enough to reveal something or other. It finds Cincinnati in second place but, like geese in the fall and the brightest room in the house, facing south.

Under the previous administration, that was sufficient cause to pack it in for the season, all the while protected by the pretense of waiting for the July 31 trading deadline. Naturally, hope had always ceased to float by the time it arrived.

In auspicious contrast, Wayne Krivsky, the new general manager, enabled by Bob Castellini, the new owner, comes equipped with a different sort of philosophy. "Every day," he stated Thursday, "is July 31."

Krivsky says this in spite of the fact that the Reds have been playing hard-to-watch hardball for the past three weeks. Given the choice of treating it as a bad team or a bad month, he has sanguinely opted for the latter.

Of course, he comes at it from a pitching perspective. Pitching has been his charge and necessary obsession in his first four months on the job, and Cincinnati's, in response, has improved decidedly. The offense is another matter.

Suppose, if you will, that the Reds' pitching staff had permitted a mere three runs for every game in May. In doing so, consider that no team in the National League holds its opponents to fewer than four runs a game. By so categorically outpitching their rivals, the Reds would have managed a record of only 12-11 during that stretch, with five games still going.

They remain fifth in the league and 11th overall in runs scored - after leading the universe a while back - but that's a treacherous statistic. The fact is, the Reds have lately specialized in not scoring runs. The ones that have come across have generally done so in furious but infrequent flurries.

Divide the 28 games of May into three segments of nine, 10 and nine, organized by the number of runs scored. In the top nine encounters, Cincinnati averaged a boffo 8.56 runs. In the middle 10, the number plummeted to 3.30. In the nine feeblest outings of the month, production evaporated to an infinitesimal 0.44.

The sum of it all begs the question of whether, given this abdication of offense, Krivsky will realign his priorities. The answer comes out as a tender tweak.

"It's still the same," he said on the first day of the new month, bearing in mind that the Reds have permitted more unearned runs than any other team in the game. "Pitching and defense.

"We've got professional hitters. We're not going to continue to hit like this much longer. Every team goes through this. Did I wish it didn't last this long? Yeah. Usually, it's not the whole team for this long. You'd be hard-pressed to pick out somebody the last couple of weeks who has been swinging the bat well.

"I still think we've got a good offensive team, but I think we've gotten away from what made us good. At the beginning of the season, we were taking walks and using the whole field to hit. Lately, we haven't taken our walks. Then once the team starts struggling to score, everybody wants to be a hero."

In turn, there's reason to believe that the Reds aren't walking as much because the other teams, noting their tendency to take pitches, have made certain not to walk them as much. Hitting tends to be an exercise in adjustments.

And so does contending. On that score, the operative news is that the recent slump has not infected the general manager.

"It doesn't complicate things at all," said Krivsky, to whom the playoffs remain a reason to carry a cell phone. "If something makes sense, you can't be afraid to do it."

Today, after all, is the first day of the rest of your chance to go get somebody.

[Hondo]

Go for the Guston and snatch Kazmir away from Tampa Bay, and Zito away from Oakland. Then move Edwin Encarnacion to Florida with others for Cabrera.....

JaredRoberts.com

[RedLegSuperStar]

Go for the Guston and snatch Kazmir away from Tampa Bay, and Zito away from Oakland. Then move Edwin Encarnacion to Florida with others for Cabrera.....

JaredRoberts.com

Ok.. Good Luck!

[redsfan30]

Zito
Harang
Arroyo
Kazmir
Milton

I'll go to battle with that rotation.

:thumbup:

[RedLegSuperStar]

Zito
Harang
Arroyo
Kazmir
Milton

I'll go to battle with that rotation.

:thumbup:


Not to mention you'd most likly lose Harang from your rotation, probably Lopez and any minor league talent we have. Zito will end up either in an A's jersey or Mets jersey. AL West is just up and down and I think Oakland can win it with Harden coming back. Unless the Mets blow them away with a deal like Bannister, Milledge, Soler, and Humber for Zito.. I just don't see him going anywhere. Kazmir will take even more than that to get him from TB. They finally found an Ace to build the team around and will likly hang on to there steal from the Mets for Victor Zambrano.

[GAC]

Wow! We just finished the month of May (only two months into the season), and people are yelling "Sell!"

This team is not as good as it played in April.... and not as bad as it played in May.

Our starting pitching, which it all hinges on, has been pretty darn good. And our offense will snap out of it.

We need to improve our bullpen, which really take doing one's homework, and is not an expensive venture IMO.

Our defense is poor; but that are the "lumps" one has to take when you're committed to starting a young INF as we have. But it might come down to switching guys like Phillips and Lopez, convincing Dunn to move to 1B and Jr to LF with Deno in CF.

Those are moves that don't require selling or the investment of a lot of capital.... just tweeking.

But sell off and rebuild from the ground up? Ridiculous.

Krivsky and Castellini have so far earned my trust. They have not done anything, as of yet, to get me to think otherwise. This is a different FO mentality.

I say we hang tough and continue to look for those trades that might open up by mid-season to help this team.

Let us be the vultures circling for a change. ;)

[KronoRed]

Go for the Guston and snatch Kazmir away from Tampa Bay, and Zito away from Oakland. Then move Edwin Encarnacion to Florida with others for Cabrera.....

JaredRoberts.com
Then win the lotto and land on Mars :devil:

[GOREDSGO32]

If Milton continues to do well, if we can get something for him, do it. I don't want the Reds to be buyers and overpay for trade deadline overpricing. If we are gonig to get there, its going to be with what we have. Milton has to go under any circumstances though I believe, his contract is a major drag on team salary. Same with Griffey, but he's well established here, and isn't likely to be taken on unless as a DH honestly. I don't really want to see Griffey go anyway, its just he makes too much for his performance.

[NewEraReds]

only one main guy i want moved, and thats dunn. i wont get into it, because it will just start an argument between the pro dunn guys and the anti dunn guys. needless to say i dont think hes worth what he is getting paid and his money could be put to much better use by kriv. not to mention he is not a kriv type of guy, IMO. also, hes the only guy who will bring back something that we can use now or in the near future