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View Full Version : Todd Coffey is on pace to throw 90 IP this year



RedsManRick
06-04-2006, 07:22 PM
Coffey is on pace to throw 90 IP this year. His previous high was 80 at Dayton in 2002. I haven't seen him throw the last few games, but perhaps somebody else can comment on the reason behind his ineffectiveness.

I do know that Narron is seemingly willing to run him in to the ground. Hopefully the Yan acquisition will help. No closer is going to be perfect every time out, but not many closers are truly effective pitching as much as Coffey has -- particularly when they aren't used it.

I'd love to see Narron really stick with the fireman approach he was using earlier in the season. If we're up 3 in the 9th, let Hammon close it out. If we're up 1 and a guy is on 2nd with no outs in the 8th, bring Coffey in. I know bullpen depth isn't our strong point, but burning the reliable guys out by the 4th of July is counter productive.

Fullboat
06-04-2006, 07:44 PM
A Pitcher uses his legs a lot,Maybe he should stop running in from the Bullpen.:dunno:

TeamBoone
06-04-2006, 08:30 PM
Coffey is on pace to throw 90 IP this year. His previous high was 80 at Dayton in 2002. I haven't seen him throw the last few games, but perhaps somebody else can comment on the reason behind his ineffectiveness.

I do know that Narron is seemingly willing to run him in to the ground.

- I totally disagree that Narron is running him into the ground. He pitched last night (Sat) in a close game because he had not pitched since the Wednesday before. He pitched today because it was a save situation.

- Now that he's the official closer, he won't be getting as many innings as he did in April/May.

- Closing is a whole different mindset. He'll get it together. Here's a little insight into the difference in being a closer:


06/04/2006

Notes: Coffey learning lessons
Right-hander finding out what it takes to be a closer
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

HOUSTON -- Even in non-save situations, the ninth inning can be a whole different animal for a big-league reliever.
The Reds' newly anointed closer, Todd Coffey, was called from the bullpen to get three outs and preserve a 7-3 lead over the Astros on Saturday. Although he'd been dominant this season as a set-up man, he struggled, hitting the leadoff batter, and then allowing three singles and two runs.

Suddenly, a relatively routine situation became a high-pressure learning experience about the perils of closing games. Had Ryan Freel not made a spectacular wall-crashing, game-saving catch on Mike Lamb's drive to the left-center-field gap, it could have been a very costly lesson for Coffey and the Reds.

"It helped me a lot," said Coffey, who leads the pitching staff with 26 appearances. "I started pitching in one mode, and I can't do that. I have to step back and relax and go back to the same way that's helped me."

Coffey has been Cincinnati's most consistent reliever, and he entered Sunday leading all big-league relievers with a 1.74 ERA. Long expected to be the closer of the near future, his four-out save in a 3-2 win Wednesday at Chicago, prompted manager Jerry Narron to promote the 25-year-old and put David Weathers in the set-up role.

"The ninth inning is different than any other inning," Narron said. "There's nobody behind you. It's one of the toughest things in sports to do."

Looking back, Coffey felt he tried to put too much on his mid-90s mph fastball. It adversely affected his location.

"Adversity makes you better, like in anything," said Coffey, who is 2-0 with two saves this season. "Last night, I learned it's not go harder -- it's go smarter."
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060604&content_id=1487724&vkey=news_cin&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Mario-Rijo
06-04-2006, 09:01 PM
It's interesting that this subject comes up. As ESPN has been looking around the league at the "Contenders" and their BP usage. And they feel the same.



Cincinnati Reds
Todd Coffey: 24 games, 28.2 innings
On pace for: 75 games, 89 innings
David Weathers: 22 games, 25 innings
On pace for: 69 games, 78 innings

Rick White: 21 games, 21.1 innings
On pace for: 65 games, 66 innings

Thoughts: A few weeks ago, manager Jerry Narron felt a little pressure to hold Todd Coffey out of a game, and you can understand why, considering he's on pace to throw almost 90 innings.



I will add that we are not the only ones according to the article. Their seems to be a shortage around the league. Almost every contender has about 3-4 guys that are piling up the innings/pitches. So I would expect that BP help will be a much sought after commodity come the Trade deadline. However if you wanna look at the book on what not to do check out the Mets #'s!


New York Mets
Duaner Sanchez: 25 games, 31.1 innings
On pace for: 79 games, 100 innings
Aaron Heilman: 23 games, 29.2 innings
On pace for: 73 games, 94 innings

Darren Oliver: 15 games, 27.2 innings
On pace for: 48 games, 86 innings

Billy Wagner: 23 games, 24 innings On pace for: 73 games, 76 innings

Thoughts: No bullpen of any contender has been pushed harder than that of the Mets in the first two months, and general manager Omar Minaya has worked hard to plug the holes at the back end of the rotation. His efforts may stabilize the relief burden, but there's no question this is a potential problem area -- with Sanchez and Heilman, in particular, getting so much work early in the year.

RedsManRick
06-04-2006, 11:04 PM
I'm just saying I don't know of too much relievers who heavily rely on a 94-95 mph fastball who are good for 89 IP a year, especially when they've maxed out at 50 the last few years.

I don't think Narron is going to ruin him or anything. However, I think it would be smart to utilize him where necessary and let a lesser reliever protect a 4 run lead. Not everybody can be a Scott Sullivan.

M2
06-04-2006, 11:07 PM
Honestly, I'd like to see more teams use good relievers for 80-100 IP.

Topcat
06-05-2006, 12:02 AM
Mike Marshal did it. Why can't the new breed guys go 100 innings ?

westofyou
06-05-2006, 12:05 AM
Good relievers can do it.

CINCINNATI REDS

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1990-2005

GAMES STARTED <= 1
INNINGS PITCHED >= 85
AGE displayed only--not a sorting criteria

ERA YEAR DIFF PLAYER LEAGUE GS IP AGE
1 Scott Williamson 1999 2.16 2.41 4.57 0 93.1 23
2 Danny Graves 2000 2.08 2.56 4.64 0 91.1 26
3 Rob Dibble 1990 2.05 1.74 3.80 0 98 26
4 Jeff Shaw 1997 1.83 2.38 4.21 0 94.2 30
5 Jeff Shaw 1996 1.73 2.49 4.22 0 104.2 29
6 Randy Myers 1990 1.72 2.08 3.80 0 86.2 27
7 Scott Sullivan 1999 1.56 3.01 4.57 0 113.2 28
8 Danny Graves 1999 1.49 3.08 4.57 0 111 25
9 Scott Sullivan 2000 1.17 3.47 4.64 0 106.1 29
10 Scott Sullivan 2001 1.05 3.31 4.36 0 103.1 30
11 Scott Sullivan 1997 0.97 3.24 4.21 0 97.1 26
12 Stan Belinda 1997 0.49 3.71 4.21 0 99.1 30
13 Ted Power 1991 0.07 3.62 3.69 0 87 36
14 Hector Carrasco 1995 0.06 4.12 4.18 0 87.1 25
15 Xavier Hernandez 1995 -.42 4.60 4.18 0 90 29
16 Scott Sullivan 1998 -.97 5.21 4.24 0 102 27

M2
06-05-2006, 12:13 AM
Scott Sullivan was a beast. The Reds should have cloned him.

RedlegNation
06-05-2006, 12:15 AM
What's Narron going to do? The rest of the pen is terrible. So I guess I understand why he wants to pitch Coffey.

Wish the Reds could pick up a couple of decent relief arms to relieve some of the pressure on Coffey (actually, I wish Wagner were one of those arms).

Nugget
06-05-2006, 12:22 AM
I disagree with the notion that Narron has to use Coffey because the rest of the pen is terrible. I think its more to do with the fact that the rest of the pen is much the same type of pitcher, from either the left or the right. They are more the kind of pitcher to work you out rather than try and blow you away. That's why I think the Yan move is excellent in that for a relatively low cost they acquired another fastballer who would allow Coffey to be used less. Its no coincidence that there was no official Coffey as closer announcement until after the Yan acquisition.

RedlegNation
06-05-2006, 12:25 AM
Ummm...do you not think that the rest of the pen is terrible? They're awful, from my vantage point.

As for Yan, he's a waste of a roster spot.

I understand what you are saying, though, and there is some validity to it. I just think it doesn't matter what type of pitcher it is, if they can't get anyone out. If we have several decent relievers, you definitely would want to mix it up a bit if you are the manager.

wheels
06-05-2006, 12:53 AM
With the other relievers Narron has at his disposal, I think it's understandable that Coffey's seeing the lion's share of the duties.

Like others have stated, the good ones can do it, and do it often.

RedsManRick
06-05-2006, 01:29 AM
And starting pitchers can all throw 240 innings in a given year. But check back with them 2 years later and see if they're still throwing 240 innings. I don't doubt that Coffey is capable of throwing 85-90 innings in a given year. But I'm thinking about 3 years from now.

Notice Sully is the only one who appears more than twice. What happened to the rest of those guys within a few years of their workload? I know you could say that as a blanket statement for any pitcher, but there's no reason to tempt fate. The romantic idea of 100 IP relievers who never break down is great, that doesn't mean I want Reds pitchers to be Mike Marshall's guinea pigs.

Topcat
06-05-2006, 02:05 AM
And starting pitchers can all throw 240 innings in a given year. But check back with them 2 years later and see if they're still throwing 240 innings. I don't doubt that Coffey is capable of throwing 85-90 innings in a given year. But I'm thinking about 3 years from now.

Notice Sully is the only one who appears more than twice. What happened to the rest of those guys within a few years of their workload? I know you could say that as a blanket statement for any pitcher, but there's no reason to tempt fate. The romantic idea of 100 IP relievers who never break down is great, that doesn't mean I want Reds pitchers to be Mike Marshall's guinea pigs.


Totally agree with you except when and we know it will happen, the Reds fall out of contention shut him down. Course if they contend all the way then yes there is a great concern. If management realizes this guy is special then they have to go out and get help. The sooner the better, personally I target Damaso Marte from the pirates and yes I would offer Deno for him.

Falls City Beer
06-05-2006, 08:45 AM
I agree with you RedsManRick--with hard throwers it's best to use caution; however, until Coffey starts throwing innings where he labors a lot, I think his pace is negotiable. But I wouldn't want my hard-throwing relievers to regularly attempt 90-100 innings, if at all possible.

My preference is to acquire two more hardthrowers to go with him.

WebScorpion
06-05-2006, 09:27 AM
Scott Sullivan was a beast. The Reds should have cloned him.

He does hold the record for most consecutive seasons with 100 IP or more for a reliever. I think the fact that he threw sidearm helped him remain durable.

redsrule2500
06-06-2006, 02:09 AM
Sullivan was amazing.

KronoRed
06-06-2006, 04:24 PM
Scott Sullivan was a beast. The Reds should have cloned him.
Or at least his arm.