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View Full Version : Talk heating up of KGJ in Chicago



Benihana
06-06-2006, 03:32 PM
I know its also been reported in NY, but there is starting to be a lot of chatter of the White Sox making a pitch to acquire Griff. They came very close last year. My question is this, right now, all factors included, would you trade Griffey (and his entire contract) straight up for Brandon McCarthy?

Do you think the Sox would do this? My answer to the last question used to be no but now I'm thinking they would. And if I'm Kriv, I think long and hard about this (as it is potentially a better version of the Arroyo trade).

Note: Personally, I would rather trade Kearns now that his value is back up if it could net us pitching, but I was curious to hear your take on this deal.

redsfaninbsg
06-06-2006, 03:33 PM
Long term it's great short term you end any chance of making the playoffs this year in my opinion.

redsfan30
06-06-2006, 03:43 PM
Don't trade anyone off this team. You don't drop key components from a team that is 2 games back in the division and a game up in the wild card.

If this keeps up for another three weeks or so, you add....not subtract.

WVRed
06-06-2006, 03:50 PM
Don't trade anyone off this team. You don't drop key components from a team that is 2 games back in the division and a game up in the wild card.

If this keeps up for another three weeks or so, you add....not subtract.

Not unless you are the 1997 Chicago White Sox.

Benihana
06-06-2006, 03:53 PM
As ridiculous as it may sound, some may argue that the trade could even help the Reds chances THIS YEAR. Now, not saying I neccessarily agree, but if McCarthy is that much of an upgrade over Claussen in the rotation, the Reds can still contend without Griff. We saw it happen in April.

Benihana
06-06-2006, 03:54 PM
Not unless you are the 1997 Chicago White Sox.

or the 2000 Reds (which, may I remind you, eventually netted us Bronson Arroyo)

redsfan30
06-06-2006, 04:01 PM
or the 2000 Reds (which, may I remind you, eventually netted us Bronson Arroyo)
Even though the Reds were in second place (I think) when Neagle was traded, I believe they were 9 or 10 games back of the Cardinals and were looking up at alot of teams in the wild card standings.

vaticanplum
06-06-2006, 04:09 PM
If the White Sox trade McCarthy, I will eat 60 hard-boiled eggs.

RedFanAlways1966
06-06-2006, 04:10 PM
I know its also been reported in NY, but there is starting to be a lot of chatter of the White Sox making a pitch to acquire Griff. They came very close last year.

How close? Did it really come close? We heard talk about it. We hear talk about lots of things (like the Yanks). Is there anything "semi-official" that shows exactly how close the Junior to The White Sox deal was last season? Or was it just White Sox fans wishing for something and it never really came close?

:confused:

Strikes Out Looking
06-06-2006, 04:12 PM
Who is chattering? White Sox fans or Kenny Williams?

RedsMan3203
06-06-2006, 04:12 PM
We saw it happen in April.

Yah - We were fine in April but that was when everyone was hitting everything....

But, look at the 1st 11 days of May. We were horrible.

We are going to ride JR all the way to the playoffs.

KronoRed
06-06-2006, 04:15 PM
Long term it's great short term you end any chance of making the playoffs this year in my opinion.
Depends on what we get back, I'd rather punt on this year and set up a run of 3-5 years.

But that's just me I guess.

Spitball
06-06-2006, 05:10 PM
Even though the Reds were in second place (I think) when Neagle was traded, I believe they were 9 or 10 games back of the Cardinals and were looking up at alot of teams in the wild card standings.

I believe it was eight games, but that was then...and even if we count Arroyo, who wants to wait six years for any kind of profit? Where is the optimism? Pujols is hurt, the Reds just swept Houston, Junior is leading the team's surge, shouldn't we be talking about getting Jon Garland for our prospects?

BTW, McCarthy hasn't looked too impressive this year.

Phil in BG
06-06-2006, 05:23 PM
I can't understand why anyone would consider trading Junior with the team in the position they're in right now. I believe it's all wishful (and old) thinking coming from Yankee and White Sox fans. They still think the Reds are sellers....all of the time. They don't know there's a new sheriff in town.

GullyFoyle
06-06-2006, 05:24 PM
For what it is worth, FOX Radio stated there was rumors of Griffey OR Dunn to the W. Sox.

Krusty
06-06-2006, 05:26 PM
Most likely the White Sox would try to unload Garland for Griffey.

As long as the team is in contention....what the heck, keep Junior and see if we can get a playoff spot. Beats losing the past five seasons.

TOBTTReds
06-06-2006, 06:00 PM
For what it is worth, FOX Radio stated there was rumors of Griffey OR Dunn to the W. Sox.

There are always days like today when I say, "Yeah, trade Dunn for good starting pitching please." Then after tonights game after 2 bombs, I say, "Why would you ever trade this guy?" He is such a streaky hitter. I say no right now though, we are going well, and our starters aren't horrible...yet.

reds44
06-06-2006, 06:09 PM
Long term it's great short term you end any chance of making the playoffs this year in my opinion.
That is the decison for WayneK.

Do you trade Griffey and undoubtly improve for the future, or do you keep him and make a run this year?

reds44
06-06-2006, 06:10 PM
For what it is worth, FOX Radio stated there was rumors of Griffey OR Dunn to the W. Sox.
If they want Dunn, they better be willing to give us McCarthy, Owens, and probably some more.

cincyinco
06-06-2006, 06:13 PM
If they want Dunn, they better be willing to give us McCarthy AND Owens.

Young?

You mean Chris Young?

he's now in the Arizona farm system.

reds44
06-06-2006, 06:14 PM
Young?

You mean Chris Young?

he's now in the Arizona farm system.
Yes I know, i fixed my post.

:D

reds44
06-06-2006, 06:15 PM
I know its also been reported in NY, but there is starting to be a lot of chatter of the White Sox making a pitch to acquire Griff. They came very close last year. My question is this, right now, all factors included, would you trade Griffey (and his entire contract) straight up for Brandon McCarthy?

Do you think the Sox would do this? My answer to the last question used to be no but now I'm thinking they would. And if I'm Kriv, I think long and hard about this (as it is potentially a better version of the Arroyo trade).

Note: Personally, I would rather trade Kearns now that his value is back up if it could net us pitching, but I was curious to hear your take on this deal.
White Sox don't have the money to take on all of Griffey's contract (their payroll is over/around 100 mil), unless the send a highly paid player to us. We would probably have to pay some of his salary to get McCarthy.

redsfanmia
06-06-2006, 06:45 PM
Depends on what we get back, I'd rather punt on this year and set up a run of 3-5 years.

But that's just me I guess.


The year picks you, you dont pick the year. The Reds have convinced me that they are in it for the long haul, you cant punt the baseball gods would be angry very angry.

deltachi8
06-06-2006, 07:06 PM
Depends on what we get back, I'd rather punt on this year and set up a run of 3-5 years.

But that's just me I guess.

me too.

redsmetz
06-06-2006, 07:08 PM
If the White Sox trade McCarthy, I will eat 60 hard-boiled eggs.

Now I'm not advocating this trade, but this just begged for this picture. :D

http://computermilitia.com/wp-content/photos/cool_hand_luke_egg.jpg

toledodan
06-06-2006, 07:24 PM
with the way the central is hurting with injuries this season its time for the reds to win now not later.

flyer85
06-06-2006, 07:41 PM
If they want Dunn, they better be willing to give us McCarthy, Owens, and probably some more.I really don't see how they can afford to trade Dunn. He is the only OF you can count on staying healthy.

I wouldn't trade Jr in a salary dump at this point

reds44
06-06-2006, 07:45 PM
I really don't see how they can afford to trade Dunn. He is the only OF you can count on staying healthy.

I wouldn't trade Jr in a salary dump at this point
Yeah I wouldn't trade Junior as just a salary dump right now either. You would have to get some good prospect in return.

Nugget
06-06-2006, 08:04 PM
Has Hell frozen over? As I look out the window it does look like the end of the world (its raining here).

Flyer and Krusty refusing point blank to consider a trade - now I have seen anything.

Its probably the White Sox trying to get some media coverage off the Yanks. Thanks but no thanks. We'll give you Germano and White for Garland though :)

Dan
06-06-2006, 08:33 PM
If the White Sox trade McCarthy, I will eat 60 hard-boiled eggs.

yes, but will you give up your first-born? that's the litmus test around here. just ask 15Fan :thumbup:

buckeyenut
06-06-2006, 09:08 PM
I would trade Jr but it would have to be a very good deal. McCarthy and Anderson and a MR prospect or something.

But I think I'd be targeting LAA. Jr for Ervin Santana, Jeff Mathis and Dallas McPherson or Casey Kotchman.

Reds1
06-06-2006, 11:59 PM
Don't trade anyone off this team. You don't drop key components from a team that is 2 games back in the division and a game up in the wild card.

If this keeps up for another three weeks or so, you add....not subtract.

You mean 1 game back. :) No way you trade him now. He was on all 5 AB tonight. If you want to win you need this man!

registerthis
06-07-2006, 12:30 AM
Do you trade Griffey and undoubtly improve for the future, or do you keep him and make a run this year?

I don't think trading Griffey would "undoubtedly improve for the future." It depends entirely on what we would get back for him.

I also don't see why a trade of Junior necessarily makes the Reds competitive over the long term--again, it depends on what we get in return. The way I see it, the Reds--currently--have a good core group of young position players AND pitchers. Lopez, Encarnacion, Phillips, Dunn, Kearns, Harang, Arroyo, Ramirez, Coffey--that's a solid nucleus right now.

I think what the Reds are doing right now is showing everyone that they're closer to being competitive than most gave them credit for at the beginning of the year. The bullpen needs some obvious help, and another top starter would certainly be beneficial--but this talk of "trade Griffey now to build for the future" seems to imply that this team is in need of some kind of complete overhaul. I don't think it is...it needs some help in places, but this team is not that far from being consistently competitive.

Topcat
06-07-2006, 02:11 AM
Depends on what we get back, I'd rather punt on this year and set up a run of 3-5 years.

But that's just me I guess.

Nope that is not just you. This franchise was on its last legs at the end of last season, what has changed that is acquiring players that have produced and will be on board for years to come. Winning the Division is a short sighted goal. Contending over the long haul should rate as the long term goal. I have loved KGJ for many years and his ability is a thing of beauty when healthy. I feel that the Red's have to look long term and not just at this season. If McCarthy was aquired for Griffey it would most defintly be a step in the "over" all long term success direction.

Topcat
06-07-2006, 02:25 AM
Losing Griffeys contract helps the Reds keep the core nucleus in place. Do I give Him away? H@ll no ! But I most defintly listen to offers, to ignore the possibilty of exploring his value would be gross negligence. Arroyo's aquisition versus Willy Mo's upside was debated over and over and in the end it was a defining move that has made the Red's more this year than whatever could have been expected.

GAC
06-07-2006, 05:12 AM
The BIG question is - would Jr OK a trade? If not, then it's all moo. ;)

And seeing that the Reds could be in it this year, then I doubt he would.

The problem this team has had over the last several weeks is not getting on base, but driving in runs.

Now I'm not regretting the Casey trade, but pointing out that that was one aspect that Casey did, regardless of all the other, perform well in... hitting and driving in runs.

Jr also performs well in this category.

You take Jr out of this lineup, and watch this offense really go south IMO.

They'd have to offer one heck of a deal IMO, in order to get him.... and again, Jr would have to OK it.

I just don't think he would (but I could be wrong).

Jpup
06-07-2006, 06:14 AM
I love Jr., but I would drive him to Chicago, if the Reds can get McCarthy for him. If Kenny Williams makes that trade, he is dumber than I thought.

redsfan4445
06-07-2006, 06:26 AM
First of all, all this crazy talk is moot! he has "10-5" rights and HE ISNT going anywhere.. this team has the best chance to win since 99 and the Cards, Astros and Cubs are not dong well and have lost key players.. The REDS are in the hunt and NOWAY BOB would be trading Griffey when he wants to WIN NOW!!!.. and it amazes me how when any Reds player is doing welll, everybody wants to trade them for prospects... geeesh!!!!!!:( :( :bang:

Jpup
06-07-2006, 06:33 AM
First of all, all this crazy talk is moot! he has "10-5" rights and HE ISNT going anywhere.. this team has the best chance to win since 99 and the Cards, Astros and Cubs are not dong well and have lost key players.. The REDS are in the hunt and NOWAY BOB would be trading Griffey when he wants to WIN NOW!!!.. and it amazes me how when any Reds player is doing welll, everybody wants to trade them for prospects... geeesh!!!!!!:( :( :bang:

I hope but I'm not blinded. If the Reds can go out and get some pitching help, they have a chance, otherwise it's pyrite.

redsfan4445
06-07-2006, 08:50 AM
I hope but I'm not blinded. If the Reds can go out and get some pitching help, they have a chance, otherwise it's pyrite.


I know we need help but you dont trade JR, Dunn and Lopez or Kearns and expect to WIN.. common sense! BOB is running this team and KNOWS JR is a what fans want to see.. i am going friday and its because the team is doing well and JR is doing welll.. i know BOB is a much better person running the show than Mr Lindner. thats why this teams attitude is different.. they know they do well come July 31st, BOB WILL get more help to get us to the post season.. Lindner wouldnt do that if he was handed the money!

membengal
06-07-2006, 08:52 AM
FYI, even Jayson Stark this morning on Mike & Mike noted that the Reds are just one game out in the NL Central, not going anywhere, and the notion that Jr. is on the block is insane.

GAC
06-07-2006, 09:02 AM
If it is a really great deal that would help this club ("Ill make them a deal they can't refuse'), then I don't think most would object to it.

But I just don't see Jr accepting it without some strong persuasion from our FO.

And I don't really think this FO is pushing the scenario really because this team does have a shot this year.

edabbs44
06-07-2006, 09:06 AM
If the CWS were willing to give up McCarthy as part of a package, Cincy would be foolish not to listen. He would be able to shore up the pitching staff ( as either a starter or reliever) and we could pencil him in the rotation next year. But I would want more.

Also, if Griffey was deal where we got one or 2 solid arms in the bullpen, the run differential would be made up by banishing Rick White back to This Old House in Springfield.

Don't forget the injury factor. At some point this season we could be cursing that they didn't deal him at his peak when they could have.

I don't want to deal him for the sake of it, but if there was a legitimate offer out there and Jr would approve it, they would have to consider it.

smith288
06-07-2006, 09:33 AM
Yea...because Griffey's main concern is the Reds future success without him. Riiiiiiight.

No offense, but Griffey's concern is probably staying with his buds in Cincy and to become a winner here.

I think the new ownership and their direction will solidify Jr's veto power but I don't think it will ever come to that because Cast knows how important Jr is to this team both on the field and in the clubhouse. Im sure Jr has expressed that to Cast.

cincinnati chili
06-07-2006, 09:36 AM
10-5

smith288
06-07-2006, 09:41 AM
10-5
I think i need to put that in my signature.

registerthis
06-07-2006, 09:49 AM
Losing Griffeys contract helps the Reds keep the core nucleus in place.

How so? I'm not getting the impression that Griffey's contract is hamstringing the Reds like it did 4-5 years ago. We've given LTCs to players like Dunn, Milton and LaRue in the past year and a half. And while the jury is still out on Krivsky, he's shown the propensity to seek out and acquire talent--or to release under-performing talent--when the need presents itself.

In short, I think it's far from guaranteed that relieving some or all of Junior's contract allows the Reds to remain competitive. I'm simply not seeing the evidence for that, but I am seeing a lot of speculation.

registerthis
06-07-2006, 09:51 AM
10-5

Come on, everyone and their brother here on this board is aware of Junior's 10-5 rights. Doesn't mean we can't speculate on the value of trading him or keeping him.

smith288
06-07-2006, 09:57 AM
Come on, everyone and their brother here on this board is aware of Junior's 10-5 rights. Doesn't mean we can't speculate on the value of trading him or keeping him.
I think what is being said with "10-5" is that if any team was willing to trade their best MLB ready star pitcher, Griffey isnt going to ok it just to make the Reds better while he goes to NY or Chitown...its just not happening. He likes it here. Its his home away from his FL home.

Trade talk is fun and all but reality is sometimes more fun. At least thats my opinion.

M2
06-07-2006, 09:58 AM
Come on, everyone and their brother here on this board is aware of Junior's 10-5 rights. Doesn't mean we can't speculate on the value of trading him or keeping him.

And beyond that, 10-5 players get dealt all the time. Most players don't treat 10-5 as a trade prohibition, they treat it as a level of control over where they go and the circumstances under which they're willing to go.

registerthis
06-07-2006, 10:02 AM
Trade talk is fun and all but reality is sometimes more fun. At least thats my opinion.

The reality is we don't know Junior's decision-making process. We can speculate all we want about what Junior might or might not do, but in the end that's all it is--speculation. I happen to agree that Junior would be reticent to jump ship from Cincinnati, but until there are tangible offers presented and real choices to be made, we don't know how it would turn out.

Additionally, this Junior trade talk presents an opportunity to gain an insight into the type of ownership Castellini and Co. might be. Do they feel hamstrung by the contract? Are they actively looking to ttrade the Reds most popular player in the hopes of saving salary, or are they looking for a legitimate return in value? This discussion goes far beyond merely whether or not Junior would veto a potential trade.

smith288
06-07-2006, 10:20 AM
The reality is we don't know Junior's decision-making process. We can speculate all we want about what Junior might or might not do, but in the end that's all it is--speculation. I happen to agree that Junior would be reticent to jump ship from Cincinnati, but until there are tangible offers presented and real choices to be made, we don't know how it would turn out.

Additionally, this Junior trade talk presents an opportunity to gain an insight into the type of ownership Castellini and Co. might be. Do they feel hamstrung by the contract? Are they actively looking to ttrade the Reds most popular player in the hopes of saving salary, or are they looking for a legitimate return in value? This discussion goes far beyond merely whether or not Junior would veto a potential trade.
I agree....the trade talk based on the successes of Griffey and what he can bring are great. The trade talk centered on "old man Griffey" and the organization-ruining contract is boring and really not the case in my opinion. Some people just reach for ways to get rid of Griffey because he isnt Freel like or Denorfia like. In reality, those two guys couldnt hold Griffey's post game jock...

But thats just me.

vaticanplum
06-07-2006, 10:25 AM
Did Casey have 10-5 rights?

Big Klu
06-07-2006, 10:34 AM
Did Casey have 10-5 rights?

No. Casey does not have 10 years of service time. His first major-league game was on September 12, 1997.

vaticanplum
06-07-2006, 10:40 AM
No. Casey does not have 10 years of service time. His first major-league game was on September 12, 1997.

Thanks, my friends and I were arguing about this a couple of weeks ago. I thought he had less than 10 years but they disagreed with me...occasionally I think I am wrong, but I am usually mistaken.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 10:47 AM
FYI, even Jayson Stark this morning on Mike & Mike noted that the Reds are just one game out in the NL Central, not going anywhere, and the notion that Jr. is on the block is insane.that pretty well covers it. Jr isn't going anywhere until something happens that would cause the Reds to be sellers.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 10:50 AM
How so? I'm not getting the impression that Griffey's contract is hamstringing the Reds like it did 4-5 years ago. Jr has been healthier the last year and a half and with the Larkin contract gone so an anchor has been removed. Combined with some low cost quality pitching from Harang/Arroyo/Coffey/Ramirez Jrs contract becomes affordable if he can stay healthy.

M2
06-07-2006, 11:30 AM
While it sounds good to say the Reds can't trade Jr. while they're in the thick of things, the team probably needs to figure out how to get another starter and a reliever or two in order to make a serious run.

Who are you going to trade for that? Rich Aurilia is only going to get you so much. The team doesn't have a lot prospects to deal. Who gets you the pitcher you need?

It might be Jr. So as much as folks might say the Reds can't trade Jr. while they're making a playoff run, the Reds probably can't convert their current position into a playoff spot unless they move another OF for a pitcher.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 11:58 AM
While it sounds good to say the Reds can't trade Jr. while they're in the thick of things, the team probably needs to figure out how to get another starter and a reliever or two in order to make a serious run.The reliever or two is imperative and another starter couldn't hurt. If the Reds had drafted Lincecum he could have been an arm that was helping the pen by August. It is obvious that White doesn't help further any cause and I'm not sure Yan does either. Crash had a decent idea in trying to get Hawkins and Marte for the stretch run.

Chip R
06-07-2006, 01:58 PM
And beyond that, 10-5 players get dealt all the time. Most players don't treat 10-5 as a trade prohibition, they treat it as a level of control over where they go and the circumstances under which they're willing to go.

Whitey Herzog always said that no-trade clauses where just a way for players to get extra money to waive that clause. This may not apply in Jr.'s case since he doesn't lack for money and he doesn't have a no-trade clause but he does have the power to veto any trade so it is, in essence, a no trade clause.