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TeamBoone
06-07-2006, 01:08 AM
June 7, 2006, 12:06 AM ET

Grimsley reportedly admitted to illicit drug use
ESPN.com news services

Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher Jason Grimsley told federal investigators he used illegal performance-enhancing drugs, according to court documents unsealed late Tuesday.

Thirteen agents searched Grimsley's house in Scottsdale, Ariz., for six hours Tuesday, according to Internal Revenue Service Agent Mark Lessler, who would not say what they found.

In seeking a judge's permission for the search, investigators who cracked the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative steroid scandal said Grimsley initially cooperated in the probe. He withdrew his assistance in April, but not before he allegedly made "extensive statements" about illegal drug use, "for the purpose of performance enhancement," according to the court documents.

IRS agent Jeff Novitsky told the federal judge that investigators wanted to search the right-hander's house for "any and all records showing contact or relationship with any and all amateur or professional athletes, athletic coaches or athletic trainers" regarding illicit drug use and purchases."

According to Novitsky, Grimsley told him the names of other players he believed were using, but the names of those players were blacked out of the court records.

"I have no comment about that and no idea about that," Grimsley told The Arizona Republic on Tuesday, hours before the Diamondbacks played the Philadelphia Phillies.

Diamondbacks managing general partner Ken Kendrick issued a statement late Tuesday saying, "We were first informed of this situation late this afternoon. This is a federal investigation, and as long as it is active and ongoing, we are prohibited from making any further comments."

Grimsley began his big league career with Philadelphia in 1989 and has pitched for Cleveland, California, the New York Yankees, Kansas City, Baltimore and Arizona. He has a career record of 42-58 with a 4.77 ERA.

According to court documents, Grimsley failed a league drug test in 2003. Authorities said when he was cooperating, he admitted to using human growth hormone, amphetamines and steroids.

He added that amphetamine use was prevalent in pro baseball, and that it was placed in coffee in clubhouses -- marked "leaded" or "unleaded" to indicate which pots contained the drugs -- Novitsky wrote.

The Republic reported that Latino players were cited by Grimsley in the court documents as a major source of amphetamines, as were major leaguers on California teams who could easily travel to Mexico to buy the drugs.

The newspaper reported that the affidavit, which was filed in U.S. District Court in Phoenix, said that Grimsley took delivery of two kits containing human growth hormone at his home on April 19.

Word of the Grimsley investigation comes nearly two months after an Illinois-based scientist prominent in the field of sports nutritional supplements pleaded guilty to supplying the BALCO lab with the performance-enhancing drug known as "the clear."

Patrick Arnold pleaded guilty to one count of conspiracy to distribute steroids to BALCO, a steroid ring that San Francisco investigators broke up two years ago. Those same authorities are targeting Grimsley.

Arnold is scheduled to be sentenced in August and most likely will face three months in jail and three months of home detention.

A federal grand jury in San Francisco is also investigating whether San Francisco Giants outfielder Barry Bonds lied under oath about using "the clear." A separate federal grand jury is probing who leaked Bonds' testimony from the BALCO investigation to the San Francisco Chronicle.

So far, the BALCO probe has netted guilty pleas from Arnold, BALCO president Victor Conte, Bonds' trainer Greg Anderson, BALCO vice president James Valente and track coach Remi Korchemny.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2473485

redlegs2370
06-07-2006, 01:32 AM
Big news. I will be curious what kind of impact this will have on the Diamondbacks. These kind of negative situations can cause a team to loose focus. I'm sure there will be a lot of non-baseball questions they will have to answer over the next week or two.

Gainesville Red
06-07-2006, 02:19 AM
Novitsky is the same guy that took one of the starring roles in Game of Shadows. Book makes him look like a badass, obsessed with getting rid of the crap. Any users in the league better be on alert. (Pretty interesting book by the way, if you can read about Bonds and not lose your lunch that is.)

Joseph
06-07-2006, 11:30 AM
According to Novitsky, Grimsley told him the names of other players he believed were using, but the names of those players were blacked out of the court records.

I've been hearing all morning he named names. How is that going to sit in a clubhouse? Is it going to push testing of hgh?

savafan
06-07-2006, 11:58 AM
This is about to get much more interesting.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 12:36 PM
This is about HGH which is the obvious drug of choice at the moment as it is not detectable using current tests. This could really blow the lid of the "steroid" issue and finally start to clean up the game.

dabvu2498
06-07-2006, 12:39 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would take a change in the CBA to allow blood testing, which is the only current way to detect HGH. Yes or no?

westofyou
06-07-2006, 12:41 PM
Grimsley was also the player who climbed through the clubhose ceiling to steal back Albert Belles corked bat.


» July 15, 1994: In the first inning at Comiskey Park, Sox manager Gene Lamont accuses Indian slugger Albert Belle of using a corked bat, and umpire Dave Phillips confiscates the bat and stores it in the ump's dressing room. In a Mission Impossible caper revealed in 1999, the Indians Jason Grimsley crawls 100 feet along a ceiling, drops down into the dressing room, and exchanges Belle's bat for one of Paul Sorrento's. After the 3–2 Indian's win, the switch is discovered to the consternation of the umps and the White Sox. The Indians subsequently turn over one of Belle's bats and Belle is given a 10-day suspension, later reduced to seven games.

Joseph
06-07-2006, 12:44 PM
http://www.azcentral.com/pdfs/060706grimsley.pdf

The link above is the affadavit in which Grimsley talks. All the names are blacked out. Start reading around page 11 or so I think for the 'story' portion.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 12:45 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would take a change in the CBA to allow blood testing, which is the only current way to detect HGH. Yes or no?there is no current test for HGH. The way to handle this situation is start doing blood tests and keep the samples and tell players the MLB will go back and test samples when an HGH test becomes available.

savafan
06-07-2006, 01:15 PM
It is being reported on ESPN that Grimsley told agents that "boatloads" of players were using HGH.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 01:27 PM
It is being reported on ESPN that Grimsley told agents that "boatloads" of players were using HGH.I wonder how big the "boats" are.

TeamBoone
06-07-2006, 01:35 PM
Wednesday, June 7, 2006

HGH issue suddenly eruptsposted:

The powers that be in baseball claim ignorance about steroid use in the 1990s. We didn't have enough information, they say. Red flags didn't go up until the summer of 1998, they say. The media didn't do any stories, they say (as if that is a litmus test on whether they should do their jobs). We didn't knowingly turn a blind eye to the problem, they say.

They cannot say that now, as another performance-enhancer scandal breaks. Check out the stunning details contained within the affidavit on the Arizona Republic Web site: According to court documents, Jason Grimsley acknowledged using human growth hormone after feds anticipated a delivery of the stuff to his home and confiscated two kits. The IRS agent who prepared the affidavit also quotes Grimsley as saying he thought "boatloads" of players were getting HGH from the same source he was using, and Grimsley allegedly named names of players within the game; those names are blacked out in the public version of the affidavit.

Court documents do not equal a conviction, but the information within the affidavit is going to frighten folks within the game. Just like we knew that the details within the Ken Starr investigation on Monica Lewinsky would leak, you can bet that the blacked-out names in this affidavit will get out, and remember -- Grimsley played with the Phillies, the Indians, the Royals, the Angels, the Yankees, the Orioles, all over the map.

To continue reading this article you must be an Insider. [sorry, I'm not]

http://insider.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?name=olney_buster&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fesp n%2fblog%2findex%3fname%3dolney_buster

Joseph
06-07-2006, 01:36 PM
That link I posted above shows the blacked out areas where he rolled on former team mates.

klw
06-07-2006, 02:08 PM
www.thesmokinggun.com also has the afidavit. If you go check out there collection of celebity mugshots, including Neon Deion.

jimbo
06-07-2006, 02:16 PM
Wednesday, June 7, 2006

The powers that be in baseball claim ignorance about steroid use in the 1990s. We didn't have enough information, they say. Red flags didn't go up until the summer of 1998, they say. The media didn't do any stories, they say (as if that is a litmus test on whether they should do their jobs). We didn't knowingly turn a blind eye to the problem, they say.

They cannot say that now, as another performance-enhancer scandal breaks. Check out the stunning details contained within the affidavit on the Arizona Republic Web site: According to court documents, Jason Grimsley acknowledged using human growth hormone after feds anticipated a delivery of the stuff to his home and confiscated two kits. The IRS agent who prepared the affidavit also quotes Grimsley as saying he thought "boatloads" of players were getting HGH from the same source he was using, and Grimsley allegedly named names of players within the game; those names are blacked out in the public version of the affidavit.

Court documents do not equal a conviction, but the information within the affidavit is going to frighten folks within the game. Just like we knew that the details within the Ken Starr investigation on Monica Lewinsky would leak, you can bet that the blacked-out names in this affidavit will get out, and remember -- Grimsley played with the Phillies, the Indians, the Royals, the Angels, the Yankees, the Orioles, all over the map.

According to the documents, Grimsley told investigators he has used human growth hormone exclusively of late. Something like this was inevitable, because the current science of testing and the framework of baseball's drug-testing program effectively funnel all would-be cheaters toward the ramification-free option of HGH.

Human growth hormone is on baseball's banned substance list, and at the same time, there is no reliable test to detect HGH. But there are means of deterrence, and baseball has not taken those steps. It's as if the Players Association and Major League Baseball told everybody not to speed down the HGH highway and then failed to deploy any radar guns to catch the would-be cheaters.

Labs are still attempting to develop a reliable test for human growth hormone; in late February, some experts said they expected to have that test in place by late summer. But, as one baseball executive noted, "We've been hearing that for years."

What the Players Association and Major League Baseball could do is to draw blood samples and urine samples from players and store them indefinitely, and tell the players: Look, we don't have a test for HGH yet, but when we do, whether it's in six months or six years, we are going to test your blood and your urine, and you will be held accountable for what we find.

But there are no blood tests of any kind within Major League Baseball's testing. The samples are not stored indefinitely; they are eventually discarded. This could be a strong deterrent, the big stick to hold over the head of the would-be cheaters. And baseball is not using it.

In fairness, Major League Baseball has been the driving force behind the current testing system; Bud Selig deserves credit for pushing the union this far. It's time for the player representatives to instruct union Don Fehr and Gene Orza to step up and do what they failed to do in the '90s and earlier in this decade: Adopt all possible means to protect the interests of the players who don't want to take performance-enhancing drugs.

In the '90s, players who didn't want to take steroids were compelled to consider the use of the drugs because they believed -- rightly -- that players they were competing against for jobs were using steroids. Some clean players who wanted to stay clean became dirty.

We have stepped back in time now. Same situation, different drugs. Unless the union leadership finally becomes vigilant in its effort to clean up the sport, clean players again will be forced to consider taking performance-enhancing drugs. Players, executives and scouts strongly believe there are those using human growth hormone in baseball, and now we have the first tip of the HGH iceberg. It's time for the commissioner to scream for an immediate adjustment to the testing system -- to include blood tests and sample storage -- and for the Players Association to serve the silent majority within the union and embrace the necessary changes.

The powers that be have learned that their failures of the '90s have led to the diminishment of the accomplishments of an entire generation. A dark cloud will forever hang over the legacy of Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire and other stars. The commissioner and the union must do everything possible to eliminate the shrouds of doubt that will hover over the next generation.

This time around, they have full knowledge. This time around, the media has sounded the alarm. This time, they know what the problem is and how they can attempt to solve it.

The fallout from the BALCO case forced the union leadership to take its steroid problem more seriously. Let's see if the Grimsley case forces the union to address the HGH problem in the same way.

The full article off ESPN.com.

dabvu2498
06-07-2006, 02:20 PM
Does anyone read the article differently than I do that there would have to be a change in the CBA to get blood testing?

IowaRed
06-07-2006, 03:26 PM
ESPN/Pedro Gomez is now reporting Grimsley is no longer on the roster and his locker has been cleaned out

Joseph
06-07-2006, 03:28 PM
Sign him up!

Or not.

Still, I think this scandal will be much larger than steroids. I know its the same umbrella, but I think its about to get REALLY ugly.

macro
06-07-2006, 03:28 PM
Keith Olberman said on ESPN Radio a few minutes ago that this story will end up being much bigger than Bonds, bigger than McGwire/Sosa/Palmiero, and bigger than any story of this type up until this point. He predicted that 100-200 players or so would be caught up in this mess.

Joseph
06-07-2006, 03:30 PM
Olberman needs to get out of my head!

Cedric
06-07-2006, 03:37 PM
I hope it get's real dirty.

These guys are getting a chance to play the greatest game in the world and they are incredibly selfish. They not only affected their life and their families, but also a ton of kids throughout the world looking for an edge.

I know that baseball has a long history of having shady characters involved with the game, but the type of attitude that these athletes had about drugs just dumbfounds me. Did they feel that elite?

Handofdeath
06-07-2006, 03:48 PM
Grimsley played for the Yankees when they won the World Series in '99 and '00. This could literally shake the foundations of Major League Baseball. This is bad. This is really, really bad.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 03:52 PM
Grimsley played for the Yankees when they won the World Series in '99 and '00. This could literally shake the foundations of Major League Baseball. This is bad. This is really, really bad.it is what needs to happen as baseball has yet to come to grips with what went on. MLB wants to make Bonds the scapegoat and sacrifice him for the sins of the game but he did it in response to what he saw going on around him.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 03:55 PM
The real sad part of what went on is twofold:
1) A lot of players got sucked in because they felt they couldn't succeed on their own with rampant cheating going on around them.
2) The real heroes are the players who will remain nameless and never got a career because they refused to compromise.

MasonBuzz3
06-07-2006, 03:56 PM
after hearing of this story I went on the D-Backs' website to see if Grimsley was still on the roster and found this interesting tidbit
"Grimsley shocked the organization by returning from Tommy John surgery in eight months, to mixed results. Grimsley struggled after joining the club in July and was bounced around as his arm gained strength. But he finished with a 1.23 ERA in his final eight outings."
Eight months for TJ recovery, that should have raised some red flags at the time.

Cedric
06-07-2006, 03:57 PM
after hearing of this story I went on the D-Backs' website to see if Grimsley was still on the roster and found this interesting tidbit
"Grimsley shocked the organization by returning from Tommy John surgery in eight months, to mixed results. Grimsley struggled after joining the club in July and was bounced around as his arm gained strength. But he finished with a 1.23 ERA in his final eight outings."
Eight months for TJ recovery, that should have raised some red flags at the time.

MLB has avoided flags for years. Remember WAY back when Manny Alexander got suspended for steriods? Remember how he was said to have named names and NOBODY cared? It's the MLB way.

CTA513
06-07-2006, 04:02 PM
That link I posted above shows the blacked out areas where he rolled on former team mates.

That PDF file is weird. It has blacked out areas but if you move the page real quick some of the black areas like disappear and you can see whats under it.

:eek:

MasonBuzz3
06-07-2006, 04:21 PM
That PDF file is weird. It has blacked out areas but if you move the page real quick some of the black areas like disappear and you can see whats under it.

:eek:
i did that and did a quick print screen and the box at the top of the document hiding Grimsley's address was gone. His address is the only thing that has the boxes covering it however. the players' names have been painted out.

CTA513
06-07-2006, 04:24 PM
i did that and did a quick print screen and the box at the top of the document hiding Grimsley's address was gone. His address is the only thing that has the boxes covering it however. the players' names have been painted out.

they made sure to cover the players names, but didnt make sure to cover his address.

:laugh:

MasonBuzz3
06-07-2006, 04:29 PM
they made sure to cover the players names, but didnt make sure to cover his address.

:laugh:
that's too bad or we could have had Redszone with breakthrough info in the MLB steroid story

flyer85
06-07-2006, 04:31 PM
baseballs newest pariah along with Raffy has been released by Arizona.

Chances of Grimsley ever playing major league baseball again are ... remote.

BCubb2003
06-07-2006, 04:31 PM
Grimsley released after search of home

6/7/2006, 2:56 p.m. ET
The Associated Press
PHOENIX (AP) — Pitcher Jason Grimsley was released by the Arizona Diamondbacks on Wednesday, a day after federal agents searched his home as part of an investigation into steroid use by athletes.

General manager Josh Byrnes said Grimsley asked for his unconditional release in meetings with team officials Tuesday and Wednesday.

"We accepted his request," Byrnes said. Byrnes would not discuss if Grimsley would be paid the remainder of his roughly $800,000 salary.

Diamondbacks pitcher Terry Mulholland said Grimsley addressed his teammates after Tuesday's loss to the Philadelphia Phillies. Arizona leads the NL West.
"He expressed to us that he had too much respect for to allow this to bring us down," Mulholland said. "He's that kind of guy."

Grimsley's locker in the calm clubhouse was empty when the room was opened to the media before the game with the Philadelphia Phillies.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 04:37 PM
translation: The Snakes paid him his money and sent him away.

Ltlabner
06-07-2006, 04:47 PM
I hope it get's real dirty.

I couldn't agree more. What the powers that be in MLB need to do to restore the games image and the spector of "the post-steroid era" is to preform a complete clearing of the house.

The following paragraph assumes they have solid proof of use. Any player found to be using the stuff is gone with no chance for the HOF. A retired player that used would be barred from the HOF. A retired player in the HOF would be booted and banned. These people chose to use and cheat and should pay the price. That is what I think MLB should do with these players.

If this unfolds the way we think it will, this is a chance for MLB to take a major step. It will hurt, all actions have consequences and MLB will take a $$$ hit if a large number of players are booted. Imagine if suddenly 100 players were gone overnight, but that is the price they pay for turning a blind eye for so long.

In the long run, such a move would pay dividends both for the health of the sport (read: revenue) but far more importantly, because it's the right thing to do.

BTW: If this becomes a huge scandel, and it's too early to tell I suppose, I hope that we are not let down by any of our current or favorite players (regardless of team).

WMR
06-07-2006, 04:51 PM
It's so freakin' obvious that players are going to use HGH... Why not??? LOL, there's no test for it, it makes you bigger and stronger. Glad this knucklehead will force people to pay attention to what should have been an obvious sticking point for the folks in Washington who were supposedly so intent on 'cleaning up the game' and subsequently allowed MLB to get by with their crap 'new and improved' policy.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 06:17 PM
It's so freakin' obvious that players are going to use HGH... Why not??? LOL, there's no test for it, it makes you bigger and stronger. Glad this knucklehead will force people to pay attention to what should have been an obvious sticking point for the folks in Washington who were supposedly so intent on 'cleaning up the game' and subsequently allowed MLB to get by with their crap 'new and improved' policy.the policy is better but with HGH you need the threat of "we will go back and find out if you were using in the past". They could do that by taking blood samples and storing them for future testing when an actual test is made available.

WMR
06-07-2006, 08:06 PM
the policy is better but with HGH you need the threat of "we will go back and find out if you were using in the past". They could do that by taking blood samples and storing them for future testing when an actual test is made available.

Unfortunately, I think that establishing the legality for what you are calling for would be just about as difficult as simply going ahead and changing the testing methods themselves.

If I'm not mistaken, the test for HGH exists, it just requires blood.

If you're going to draw blood--which will probably mean a change in the CBA--you might as well go ahead and include all possible current tests which can be performed on said blood. The smart thing to do would be to include the caveat that the blood could be stored indefinitely and that ANY new tests or procedures which arose for substances BOTH currently identified and unknown could be performed on any blood held in the testing facility. Now THAT would clean up the game.

Even if an enterprising chemist can devise an illegal substance that cannot be detected by currently existing tests, the threat of new and currently unknown testing methods being applied to previously drawn blood would scare 99% of MLB players into playing clean. Of course, good luck getting the MLB players union to agree to something like that w/o Congress enacting legislation... not sure if even overwhelming public pressure would be enough to get something like that done.

flyer85
06-07-2006, 08:21 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the test for HGH existsthere is no test for HGH

2001MUgrad
06-07-2006, 08:35 PM
there is no test for HGH

There is a test for about anything you can think of. Now, if that test is cost effective may be something different.

http://www.healthatoz.com/healthatoz/Atoz/ency/growth_hormone_tests.jsp

2001MUgrad
06-07-2006, 08:36 PM
Does anyone read the article differently than I do that there would have to be a change in the CBA to get blood testing?

It took a change in the CBA to allow for drug testing period. I thought it was a little stupid the agreement that was agreed to. I think its too easy to beat. But, like the saying goes, "Sometimes it takes an act of Congress."

jmcclain19
06-07-2006, 10:19 PM
The full rundown is on Smoking Gun right now

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0607061grimsley1.html?link=rssfeed

Also, this article seems to state that the Olympics has an HGH test available

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-hgh060706&prov=yhoo&type=lgns


Baseball's HGH problem
By Jeff Passan, Yahoo! Sports
June 7, 2006

Jeff Passan
Yahoo! Sports Exclusive
On April 20, the day after Jason Grimsley spent two hours telling federal investigators about the package of human growth hormone he received and his long history with performance-enhancing drugs, he pitched 4 1/3 shutout innings for the Arizona Diamondbacks.

Just because Grimsley's name registers a lower Q rating than Barry Bonds' or Rafael Palmeiro's doesn't lessen the nuclear nature of the investigation by IRS agent Jeff Novitzky, the lead sleuth in the BALCO case and the hero of anti-doping advocates.

Grimsley sang like wind chimes in a hurricane. He implicated his distributor, who's certain to get a visit from Novitzky and Co. soon, and he fingered players, whose names, redacted for now on the affidavit, will eventually leak. He admitted to copious performance-enhancing drug use, ranging from growth hormone to steroids to prohormones to amphetamines, over the course of his 15-year career, which, incidentally, is probably over after the Diamondbacks released him Wednesday. He confessed to an idle chat last year with former Baltimore Orioles teammates about how baseball would react to the banning of amphetamines, talk corroborated during spring training when Grimsley suggested to the New York Times that baseball look into expanding rosters from 25 to 30.

The most damning slice of the affidavit was a single sentence that blew a hole through Major League Baseball's insistence that its performance-enhancing-drug-testing program catches users:

"Grimsley stated that since Major League Baseball began its drug testing for steroids and amphetamines, the only drug he has used is human growth hormone."

ADVERTISEMENT
And there it is. Proof, in 25 words, that for all the progress made – and there has been plenty – baseball still faces perhaps its toughest question yet in the steroid scandal.

Just how far will it go to protect the integrity of its game?

In three years, baseball has gone from no steroid policy to the most stringent in sports, and still, fallibility and loopholes abound. Even though HGH is on its banned list, there is no urine test for it. The sport helped fund Don Catlin, the UCLA doctor who discovered the designer steroid THG, to develop one. Nothing yet. The World Anti-Doping Association is also trying, to no avail.

"The urine test is beyond what you and I can see now," said Gary Wadler, a WADA board member, "down the long trail."

I had called Wadler on Monday, before the Grimsley story broke, to talk about HGH. Generally, he is an optimist. When talking about growth hormone, he sounded defeated. He knows it's prevalent. The evidence crops up in players' muscle gain or unnaturally quick recoveries from injuries. For all of medical technology's wonders, Grimsley's return last July only 10 months after Tommy John surgery seemed astounding.

Wadler called on baseball to implement blood testing, something he's done for years and something the players' association opposes vehemently. Peeing in a cup is one thing; getting stuck with needles and having the samples frozen for future testing delves into the deep and moralistic issues of civil liberties, and returns us to the argument's crux.

How important is ridding the game of performance-enhancing drugs?

Currently, two types of blood tests are used to detect HGH. The more popular test, the one used at the Turin Olympics, isolates small proteins known as isoforms, which are slightly different in human-produced growth hormone than the synthetic version. The other looks for slight fingerprints in the blood, or markers, that indicate usage of synthetic growth hormone.

Neither is patently reliable.

Grimsley, 38, has been using performance enhancers for years. He admitted to being on the list of 83 players who tested positive in 2003, a list that, if ever released, would inflict further and deeper damage on a sport already carpet bombed with controversy. Grimsley told investigators he tested positive for 1-AD, or androstenediol, a prohormone similar to the androstenedione that Mark McGwire took the season he hit 70 home runs. Both substances are now banned.

To recover from shoulder surgery, he took Deca-Durabolin, a brand of nandrolone and a Jose Canseco favorite. He ingested Clenbuterol, a drug with similar effects to the banned dietary supplement ephedrine, which speeds up the heart. Grimsley told investigators he and others popped amphetamines "like aspirin."

Between 10 and 12 times, Grimsley said, he received HGH shipments similar to the one Novitzky confiscated from his home April 19. This particular kind was Serostin, a branded version of the drug somatropin.

One kit, filled with seven vials of powdered HGH and seven vials of sterile water to mix in, cost Grimsley $1,600. Two were delivered April 19. On bodybuilding message boards, users talk about their sources for HGH: citizens, many times AIDS patients, who are lawfully prescribed the drug.

Grimsley used his to enhance performance – by the looks of his 4.88 ERA this season and 4.77 ERA for his career, the results weren't exactly as intended – and as such the government raided his house in Scottsdale, Ariz., on Tuesday and for six hours searched for records that could tie him to a litany of charges: distribution of steroids, illegal possession of steroids, illegal receipt of HGH and money laundering.

Now Grimsley, anonymous but for crawling through a duct to steal Albert Belle's corked bat in Cleveland in 1994, is the latest pharmacological dabbler caught.

And baseball, again, is reeling.

The onus falls on the sport to act as a pioneer, even if it's at the end of the production-and-distribution cycle. If the most baseball can reasonably do is test, it must help fund other methods of choking off the supply. A few years ago, WADA tossed around the idea of attaching markers to drugs when they come out of the factory – adding detectable doses of a benign substance to a drug so it wouldn't change the chemical properties, for those who need it, but would show up in visible proportions in drug tests.

Though the FDA testing process for the new compounds would take a few years, drug companies, knowing their products are being abused and their names sullied, would likely be on board.

Other options are limited. HGH is the desert mirage of performance-enhancing drugs, showing up for a short while before vanishing without a trace. Two years ago, the United States Anti-Doping Association assembled a group of endocrinologists, hormone experts, laboratory scientists and sports testers for a town-hall meeting on HGH.

"We were locked up for two days," Wadler said. "And the bottom line is, the landscape hasn't changed. It's going to take a lot of years and a lot of money."

And a lot of commitment, too.

Commissioner Bud Selig and union leader Donald Fehr must decide whether that's the path they want to travel. The amount of wrangling it took to get the current policy – Capitol Hill hearings and back-room negotiating and public-relations haymakers – seemed worth the amount of credibility it bought. Until the latest hit, at least, which is the start of a slow and painful trickle from the Grimsley case. Pressure will mount for more action. Baseball will need to weigh its priorities in an unenviable yet inevitable decision.

The sanctity of the game or the privacy of its players?

Reds Nd2
06-07-2006, 10:23 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2473485


According to court documents, Grimsley failed a league drug test in 2003.

Failed a test for what? The survey testing for performance enhancing drugs in '03 was suppossed to be anonymous and testing for drugs of abuse could only be done with probable cause.

jmcclain19
06-07-2006, 10:24 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2473485



Failed a test for what? The survey testing for performance enhancing drugs in '03 was suppossed to be anonymous and testing for drugs of abuse could only be done with probable cause.

In the released court paperwork, Grimsley admitted that he failed the anonymous test - the name of the MLB person who told him is blacked out.

Reds Nd2
06-07-2006, 10:25 PM
the policy is better but with HGH you need the threat of "we will go back and find out if you were using in the past". They could do that by taking blood samples and storing them for future testing when an actual test is made available.

No way I can get behind something like that in anyones workplace.

Reds Nd2
06-07-2006, 10:34 PM
In the released court paperwork, Grimsley admitted that he failed the anonymous test - the name of the MLB person who told him is blacked out.

Thanks '19. I must have missed that when I read the affidavit earlier. This going to be ugly for a long time.

Yachtzee
06-07-2006, 11:27 PM
I'm just waiting for the ESPN talking heads to spin it as though fans don't really care and just want to see more home runs.

Gainesville Red
06-08-2006, 12:12 AM
Any guess as to when names begin to leaK?

edabbs44
06-08-2006, 12:17 AM
Any guess as to when names begin to leaK?
I can't wait...he's played with some good players over the years.

captainmorgan07
06-08-2006, 12:17 AM
anybody who comes back from tommy john in 8 months is alil fishy

Gainesville Red
06-08-2006, 12:23 AM
I can't wait...he's played with some good players over the years.

Any Reds?

cincinnati chili
06-08-2006, 12:34 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it would take a change in the CBA to allow blood testing, which is the only current way to detect HGH. Yes or no?

Since nobody answered you, I will. You are correct. It's basic labor law. They'd have to change the CBA. Drug testing policies are a mandatory subject of collective bargaining.

Management can't agree to terms with a union, and then midway through the contract say, "Oh, and by the way, we're going to stick needles in your arm, take your blood, and then terminate your contract when our lab says you broke the rules."

Gainesville Red
06-08-2006, 12:36 AM
What if the names were Harold Reynolds, John Kruk, Jeff Brantley, and anyone else I'm missing from Baseball tonight? Ha. That'd be something.

TeamBoone
06-08-2006, 01:05 AM
June 7, 2006

Grimsley mess offers a stern wake-up call
By Jayson Stark / ESPN.com

Before Tuesday, Jason Grimsley's biggest claims to fame were: (A) he's the guy who once crawled through the drop ceiling at the new Comiskey Park (now called U.S. Cellular Field) to rescue Albert Belle's corked bat, and (B) he was once traded, even-up, for Curt Schilling, just before Schilling became Curt Schilling.

But from now on, Jason Grimsley is going to have a different claim to fame.

What Jose Canseco was to the steroid mess, Jason Grimsley now represents for the human growth hormone crisis, which is soon to erupt in a congressional caucus, or in a commissioner's office, or on a talk-show frequency near you.

Why is it such a monstrous deal -- for baseball and all the major pro sports -- that Grimsley allegedly was caught, red-handed, with HGH? Not to mention that he reportedly has since named a slew of names and told the feds all kinds of fascinating stories? Here are four big reasons:


1. The government is still targeting baseball
Months after the four BALCO defendants plea-bargained and served their time, the government's lead investigator in that case, Jeff Novitzky, is still on the baseball beat.

Jason Grimsley began his big-league career in 1989, and has played for seven different teams.Which tells us BALCO was never just about Victor Conte or Greg Anderson. It was about the federal government's relentless fervor to clean up pro sports in general and baseball in particular.

Remember, it was the attorney general of the United States who personally announced the BALCO indictments. And the book "Game of Shadows" meticulously details the government's near-obsession with exposing the widespread use of performance-enhancing drugs by some of baseball's biggest names.

But when those BALCO defendants copped their pleas, it looked as if the heat was off. Uh, guess again.

First, it was Barry Bonds being aggressively targeted by the BALCO grand jury for a possible perjury indictment. Now comes more evidence that the same investigators who brought you the BALCO case are still roaring away, looking into other players and their use of a wide variety of substances.

If they could track a delivery of HGH to Jason Grimsley, then compel Grimsley to drop names, who else can they connect these dots to? What names are next on their shopping list? These are questions that are making a lot of people in baseball cringe today.

2. This is the smoking gun on high

For the first time since baseball instituted its new steroid policy, we have a major league player allegedly admitting -- to federal investigators, as noted in the affidavit -- that the loopholes in the new policy caused him to switch his substance of choice.
To -- what else? -- human growth hormone.

Why? Because baseball began testing for the stuff he used to take. It's that simple.

But baseball doesn't test for HGH, because (at least for now) there is no effective test that accurately detects HGH, and because the players' union has never been willing to allow any kind of blood testing -- the only kind of testing that eventually will work for HGH.

So this essentially announces -- to Congress, to Bud Selig, to the union, to all of us -- that players were well aware that they essentially had a free pass to use HGH. And we now know that at least one player took that free pass and never thought twice about it.

Not until the feds showed up at his front door, at least.

We should say here that no one thinks the use of HGH is anywhere near as rampant as steroid use once was in baseball. But on the other hand, nobody is naive enough to think Jason Grimsley is the only player who may have used it.

And if he has pointed investigators in the direction of other players, and to his distributor, this scandal is going to get worse. Much worse. Because you have to figure names much bigger than Jason Grimsley are going to be all over the headlines at some point.

This is also a clear signal to Congress that MLB -- and other sports -- aren't doing enough to attack the use of HGH, and that their current policies are essentially open invitations to use it at will.

We've already seen how much our friends in Congress enjoy pontificating on this issue. So we can expect them to pontificate some more any time now -- which could mean a whole new full-court press on baseball and other sports to address this problem. Or else.

If you remember what happened the last time Congress brought Bud Selig and Don Fehr to Capitol Hill for a clean-this-up-or-else session, you'll no doubt love the sequel.

3. Jason Grimsley is Forrest Gump

It isn't true that Grimsley has played with every single player in history. But for federal-investigative purposes, he's the next-best thing.

No, he hasn't been a teammate of everybody. But ...

He connects the late 1980s, when steroid use was just getting trendy, to the post-testing age we now live in.

He played with the Phillies of the early 1990s, with a bunch of players who went on to become a major part of the worst-to-first saga of their 1993 World Series runner-up team.

He played with the Indians of the mid-'90s, on a team of mashers that eventually grew into the only club in the past 70 years to score 1,000 runs in a season.

He played with the Yankees of 1999 and 2000, teams that won back-to-back World Series.

And he played with the Orioles of 2004-05, with guys named Rafael Palmeiro and Sammy Sosa.

Not to mention the '96 Angels or the 2006 Diamondbacks, or the three teams (Astros, Tigers and Brewers) that dumped him without bringing him back to the big leagues.

So Grimsley's All-Teammate Team would go on longer than his federal affidavit. It would be a roster hundreds of names long -- many of them really famous names, players who have never been associated with any kind of drug use.

In other words, if any player in baseball were to start naming names, Grimsley would be one guy who would scare the spikes off the many silent users who thought they would escape detection forever.

Well, we know now that he has named those names. Which makes him the worst nightmare ever for way too many of your baseball heroes, past and present.

4. He's a pitcher

It sure is funny how, when we hear the names of players in the news these days in connection with the use of performance-enhancing drugs, a shockingly high percentage of them don't specialize in hitting home runs for a living.

They pitch.

Yet the use of these substances by pitchers remains the most under-discussed aspect of the most over-discussed sports story of modern times.

So isn't it time we all woke up?

The everybody-used-steroids-to-cheat-and-hit-home-runs conspiracy theory has been oversimplified to the point of hysteria.

The lots-of-guys-used-steroids-to-heal-and-recover-and-possibly-throw-harder part of this story -- particularly by pitchers just like Grimsley -- has been just about ignored to the point of absurdity.

Jason Grimsley represents the most powerful evidence yet that way too many people have spent way too many hours and words focusing on the most convenient, but not the most prevalent, part of the story.

Well, hello. There's still time to catch on. And the Life and Times of Jason Grimsley is as good an excuse as any to get this right -- finally.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2474247

OldRightHander
06-08-2006, 01:58 AM
I have been thinking a lot about this today, since it seemed to be the topic of choice all day on XM 175. Yes, we all want the game to be cleaned up, but what price are we willing to pay to see it happen?

You know that there will be a price to pay for that and it won't be cheap. How far should MLB go in order to see this through? Should they risk a work stoppage to get whatever changes need to be made to the CBA? What are we as fans willing to go through? There are a lot of questions, but here's what I think for what it's worth.

I don't care what names come out. I want every dirty player exposed, even if that player plays for my beloved Reds, and I want an extremely low tolerance for offenders. Your status as a MLB player should not protect you from prosecution if you are caught using any substance that is illegal. If the players' union doesn't like it, tough. Break the union on this issue if need be, even if it means a stoppage like we had back in '94. If you get caught once, there will be a suspension. Get caught the second time, you're out of the game, no exceptions.

Baseball is a passion for me. My three loves in life are God, my wife, and baseball. I have loved this game nearly as long as I can remember and I want it cleaned up. Anyone who stains the integrity of the game I love should not be involved in that game. If it means we have to play that game with a bunch of minor leaguers, so be it. If it means that we have to bid farewell to some of those superstars we love watching, so be it. I just want to watch the game I love played by men who aren't cheating.

Another question is this: Where do we draw the line? What substances should be illegal and which should be considered acceptable? I know players have been popping uppers for years, even back in the good old days we all get misty eyed about, so where should that line be drawn? Do we only ban HGH and steroids, or do we even include those contact lenses that cut down on glare and let players see the ball better? There are a lot of questions there as well. Yeah, I know that players have been cheating for a long time, but now it's gotten out of control and I want something done about it.

So are we as fans willing to bite the bullet and back a hard stance on all doping, even if it means we have to watch a lesser product on the field? Are we really all as naive as ESPN would like to think we are? Will baseball do what is required to actually clean up this mess and remove the stain from the image of America's pasttime, or will those in charge stop just short of what is needed in fear of the backlash a potential work stoppage could cause?

I don't know all the answers, or even a small portion of them for that matter, but I do know that the game I love has been tainted to some degree by all this. Whether the problem is widespread or is just something involving a few players doesn't matter at this point. Perception might be more than the reality, but MLB needs to crack down hard and get rid of the problem in order to salvage its image. I am not some sheep that will turn a blind eye as long as the games continue to be played and the players continue to hit home runs. I want MLB to salvage the integrity of the game I love, whatever it takes.

dman
06-08-2006, 05:53 AM
I don't know when the current contract ends, but this situation here has the potential to cause another strike that will kill the game forever. If and when, during the negotiating phase of the next contract MLB wants to institute blood testing for HGH and the MLBPA refuses to accept any such testing, there are problems brewing. For fans, this is a scary situation. I don't see the MLBPA agreeing to terms for a blood test on the players.

KronoRed
06-08-2006, 06:07 AM
Last time the players union didn't agree till congress threatened to act, I expect the same thing will happen this time.

cincinnati chili
06-08-2006, 09:59 AM
Last time the players union didn't agree till congress threatened to act, I expect the same thing will happen this time.

I agree. The players might get a BIT more sympathy from the public - being forced to give blood rather than just pee in a cup - but just a bit. Most people don't really see the harm in technicalities, like the governement's intervening in the bargaining process.

First of all, MANY players would prefer stronger testing to clean up the game. But Congressional intervention (or the threat thereof) will probably sway the union again.

The contraction battle - even though the union agreed not to contest contraction with the NLRB - is going to be a bigger issue for the union. That would kill 80 jobs (2 40-man roster).

However, I'm cautiously optimistic about this next CBA. The joint venture (World Baseball Classic) between MLB and the union may have healed a few of the scars from the collusion era.

RedFanAlways1966
06-08-2006, 10:05 AM
They should consider the millions of dollars their blood-money. Want your millions per year to play a game? Then give a little bit of blood.... clean blood, I mean.

If the Union battles over this, then I will have less respect for them (it is pretty low right now). I go for a checkup 2X per year and get blood drawn each time. A little sting and a band-aid... all done. I hate to see protection given for one reason... to protect the guilty. Can there be any other reason for them fighting to not have a blood test? Are there a lot of hemophiliac ballplayers who risk their lives each time they take the field b/c they might get spiked and bleed to death?!?

I want blood! :devil:

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 10:38 AM
I've been reading the affidavit this morning. If Grimsely had been a mobster instead of a ballplayer, he'd already be dead.

registerthis
06-08-2006, 10:44 AM
I've been reading the affidavit this morning. If Grimsely had been a mobster instead of a ballplayer, he'd already be dead.

Well, his career is.

Yachtzee
06-08-2006, 10:45 AM
I agree. The players might get a BIT more sympathy from the public - being forced to give blood rather than just pee in a cup - but just a bit. Most people don't really see the harm in technicalities, like the governement's intervening in the bargaining process.

First of all, MANY players would prefer stronger testing to clean up the game. But Congressional intervention (or the threat thereof) will probably sway the union again.

The contraction battle - even though the union agreed not to contest contraction with the NLRB - is going to be a bigger issue for the union. That would kill 80 jobs (2 40-man roster).

However, I'm cautiously optimistic about this next CBA. The joint venture (World Baseball Classic) between MLB and the union may have healed a few of the scars from the collusion era.

Sympathy? I don't see it. Granted I don't have a scientific survey to back me up, just the baseball fans I talk to around NE Ohio. Most people around here feel baseball players get so much money already that being subjected to drug tests is a minor concession. It's a little more difficult for players to contest drug testing when many people have to submit to drug testing for jobs where they get paid much, much less. Maybe there's a different vibe about this in the Northeast, but I get the impression that the players don't have any support on this around here. I don't think a lot of people see it as a labor issue. I think more people see it as a drug issue that the union is trying to turn into a labor issue.

My feeling is that the Union cannot possibly do anything to block drug testing. The only thing they can do on this is to cooperate and try to maintain some sort of 50/50 control over the process. If anything Fehr and Orza would probably serve their constituents better by coming out and proposing a tougher regime than the one proposed by the owners. Then they could maintain some control over the process and work to minimize the intrusion into the privacy of those who don't use drugs. Fighting it will just alienate fans and risk getting Congress involved. If Congress gets involved, it may well include criminal penalties.

I agree that contraction is a bigger concern, and one for which the union probably has much more fan support behind it. But I don't see how the drug issue is anything but a loser for the union.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 10:51 AM
Before Tuesday, Jason Grimsley's biggest claims to fame were: (A) he's the guy who once crawled through the drop ceiling at the new Comiskey Park (now called U.S. Cellular Field) to rescue Albert Belle's corked bat, and (B) he was once traded, even-up, for Curt Schilling, just before Schilling became Curt Schilling.

Grimsley's other claim to fame was having a plane crash into his Overland Park, KS house a couple of years ago.

Honestly, I'm more troubled by the amphetemine use than steroids. According to numerous sources, players have been popping speed and "greenies" for DECADES, with absolutely no repercussions. That's a bigger black eye than the relatively new steroids issue. Grimsley says it's in the coffee. Maybe that's why Troy Percival went through rehab for "caffeine" addiction in the late-90's.

westofyou
06-08-2006, 10:52 AM
According to numerous sources, players have been popping speed and "greenies" for DECADES, with absolutely no repercussions. That's because the trainers were the ones giving the speed to the players.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 11:14 AM
That's because the trainers were the ones giving the speed to the players.

That's pretty much a stamp of approval from team ownership.

registerthis
06-08-2006, 11:22 AM
That's pretty much a stamp of approval from team ownership.

That's funny, because MLB's nonchalance in dealing with the steroid problem over the last few decades could easily be viewed as a stamp of approval by MLB itself.

savafan
06-08-2006, 11:30 AM
As I understand it, Grimsley gave the names of three members of the 2005 Baltimore Orioles.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 11:43 AM
As I understand it, Grimsley gave the names of three members of the 2005 Baltimore Orioles.
SS? And I don't mean Hitler's goons.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 11:46 AM
Palmeiro is a given. Sosa is pretty much a given. I'd bet on Tejada or Melvin Mora.

savafan
06-08-2006, 11:47 AM
Dan Patrick said that he's heard these three names and "2 would shock you, 1 would surprise you."

registerthis
06-08-2006, 11:48 AM
SS? And I don't mean Hitler's goons.

SS, Palmeiro and Melvin Mora?

savafan
06-08-2006, 11:52 AM
Wasn't there talk about Brian Roberts using something last year?

BrooklynRedz
06-08-2006, 11:55 AM
Grimsley's other claim to fame was having a plane crash into his Overland Park, KS house a couple of years ago.

Honestly, I'm more troubled by the amphetemine use than steroids. According to numerous sources, players have been popping speed and "greenies" for DECADES, with absolutely no repercussions. That's a bigger black eye than the relatively new steroids issue. Grimsley says it's in the coffee. Maybe that's why Troy Percival went through rehab for "caffeine" addiction in the late-90's.

The coffee part is actually true. Widely known that the "leaded" coffee is the pick-me-up.

savafan
06-08-2006, 12:08 PM
From the affidavit:

"Grimsley identified, in his words, "Latin players," as a major source of amphetamines within baseball. He stated that it was common knowledge that you could get amphetamines from "Latin players". He stated that he got amphetamines from "Latin players" whenever he needed them. He stated that "Latin players" had boxes of them."

blumj
06-08-2006, 12:11 PM
Dan Patrick said that he's heard these three names and "2 would shock you, 1 would surprise you."
Well, that sure leaves out Sosa and Palmeiro, no one's going to be surprised by them, and no one would really be surprised by Tejada after the Palmeiro stuff, would they?

savafan
06-08-2006, 12:16 PM
It appears that Chuck Knoblauch has been the first name to come out of this.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 12:19 PM
It appears that Chuck Knoblauch has been the first name to come out of this.
I'd imagine we'll see a lot of guys that "burn out then fade away."

Brian Roberts is a good call.

GoReds
06-08-2006, 12:19 PM
Everyone time there is speculation about who is using steroids or HGH, immediately hitters are listed. But the majority of the suspensions I've seen have been pitchers. And a majority of them relief pitchers, which makes sense since they need something to enable them to pitch multiple days in a row.

Having said that, I'd be inclined to list candidates such as Rodrigo Lopez and BJ Ryan.

savafan
06-08-2006, 12:20 PM
Check out this sentence from the FBI’s report:
“Grimsley also identified XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX, a former Major League Baseball player, as one of his better friends in baseball. Grimsley stated that (sic) knows XXXXXXXXX used human growth hormone. . . .”
Sadly, the good folks in the federal government don’t believe in fixed-width fonts like Courier New, otherwise we’d be able to discern exactly how many letters comprise the mystery man’s last name. Regardless, it’s clear from the context that this particular name is longer than average, perhaps even 20 letters.
How many ex-major leaguers who played with Grimsley have names that long and would conceivably be his close friend? Let’s assume they were teammates, which seems reasonable. (Somewhere, ex-Giant William Van Landingham breathes a sigh of relief.)
Here are some names that qualify: Paul Assenmacher, Chuck Knoblauch, Curtis Leskanic, Derek Lilliquist, Mickey Morandini, Steve Ontiveros, Rafael Palmeiro, Heathcliff Slocumb.
Assenmacher only played with Grimsley for one season. Palmeiro was generally loathed, so it’s doubtful he was anyone’s best friend. If Slocumb took something, they were the worst steroids ever and he deserves a refund.
So whom does that leave? Let’s hit Yahoo with the following search: “Jason Grimsley” “Chuck Knoblauch” “friend.”

How interesting. An MLB.com story from 2002 spring training detailing Knoblauch’s arrival in Kansas City. He credits his smooth transition from New York to Grimsley, a Yankees teammate in 1999 and 2000. Why, they even share adjoining lockers.
“That’s no coincidence,” Knoblauch says with a laugh.
You bet it’s not. Let’s make the search more specific, replacing “friend” with “best friend.” And here’s No. 1 on the list, from a 2000 ESPN chat.

Chryz Hetfield: Who’s your best friend inside and out of the team?
Chuck Knoblauch: Pretty much everybody on the team. I hang out with Jason Grimsley a lot, going to lunch and doing stuff off the field.

http://redsox.bostonherald.com/otherMLB/view.bg?articleid=142688&format=&page=2

savafan
06-08-2006, 12:23 PM
Also, it looks like Novitzky was trying to use Grimsley to get to Bonds.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/story/424842p-358407c.html

STAFF & WIRE REPORT

A lawyer for Jason Grimsley said last night that federal investigators pressured the disgraced Diamondback to wear a wire in an effort to catch Barry Bonds and other major leaguers admitting steroid use on tape, according to a published report.

"It was a specific effort to target Bonds," Arizona attorney Edward F. Novak said in a story posted today on USA Today's Web site. "We were told that Jason's cooperation was necessary to their case."

But when the pitcher refused to take part in the proposed sting, Novak said, he "was outed by the Feds."

Federal agents searched Grimsley's home for six hours Tuesday after authorities made public an affidavit stating that the former Yankee admitted to using anabolic steroids, human growth hormone and amphetamines "throughout his career."

The affidavit also states that Grimsley gave authorities the names of "several" other big leaguers who the pitcher says used banned substances. Agents who searched Grimsley's home on Tuesday sought evidence that Grimsley had distributed HGH in the past - an indication that investigations into ballplayers are alive and well and additional bombshells could be forthcoming.

Said Kevin Ryan, a U.S. Attorney in California: "Clearly, we're not done."

Novak, meanwhile, denies claims that his client snitched on any other ballplayer, even though, the lawyer said, agents grilled Grimsley for any such information - particularly with regard to Bonds.

"They asked him about Barry Bonds and Jason said he didn't know Bonds well and didn't know if he did or didn't use drugs," Novak was quoted as saying.

"There is a lot in the affidavit that my client would dispute," Novak said, though he added: "He has admitted his past steroid use. The substance of that part of the affidavit is accurate."

Commissioner Bud Selig declined to comment yesterday, saying he would not speak about an investigation.

gonelong
06-08-2006, 12:44 PM
Can there be any other reason for them fighting to not have a blood test?

Yes, I don't really want my employer to have any more knowledge of my personal life than possible. Should your employer have the knowledge of your cholesterol level? How about your PSA level or if you have syphilis?

I may want this information for myself, but I surely don't want my employer to have access to use or misuse this information.

GL

Cedric
06-08-2006, 12:49 PM
Yes, I don't really want my employer to have any more knowledge of my personal life than possible. Should your employer have the knowledge of your cholesterol level? How about your PSA level or if you have syphilis?

I may want this information for myself, but I surely don't want my employer to have access to use or misuse this information.

GL

You honestly can't compare any day to day job with MLB. When you sign up for that million dollar job you are giving away certain rights that the average worker doesn't. IF it's in the CBA.

The risk of the public comes into play when thinking of needing HGH testing in baseball. Nobody cares if trash collectors are tested, but the risk for children growing up and seeing their favorite ballplayer on HGH or steroids is a factor.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 12:49 PM
The coffee part is actually true. Widely known that the "leaded" coffee is the pick-me-up.

Yeah, but it usually means "caffinated," and unleaded means "decaf." Apparently, it also means "amphetaminated" in MLB clubhouses.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 12:53 PM
You honestly can't compare any day to day job with MLB. When you sign up for that million dollar job you are giving away certain rights that the average worker doesn't. IF it's in the CBA.

The risk of the public comes into play when thinking of needing HGH testing in baseball. Nobody cares if trash collectors are tested, but the risk for children growing up and seeing their favorite ballplayer on HGH or steroids is a factor.
Civil rights do still exist in this country. (Please don't shut this down and move it to the political board.)

I would almost guarantee you that your trash collector (or ANYONE else in any position remotely dealing with public trust except teachers in some districts) was tested.

But any CONTRACT allowing drug testing would have to be VERY specific pertaining to testing for drugs only, including which drugs were being tested for.

Friggin' lawyers.

Cedric
06-08-2006, 12:57 PM
Civil rights do still exist in this country. (Please don't shut this down and move it to the political thread.)

I would almost guarantee you that your trash collector (or ANYONE else in any position remotely dealing with public trust except teachers in some districts) was tested.

But any CONTRACT allowing drug testing would have to be VERY specific pertaining to testing for drugs only, including which drugs were being tested for.

Friggin' lawyers.

Sure, I understand that. I'm just saying with the public pressure and how this testing actually pertains to the public, would make it possible for the CBA to be changed. We've seen this before.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 01:01 PM
Sure, I understand that. I'm just saying with the public pressure and how this testing actually pertains to the public, would make it possible for the CBA to be changed. We've seen this before.
Oh yes and I think it will happen again. But it's not as easy as some people think. I'm sure the CBA is available online. It's as technical a legal document as I've ever seen. Baseball's lawyers nor owners nor anyone else has a magic wand that can do it overnight.

I'd say the last time it was changed it was due more to Congressional pressure than public pressure and it may take that kind of heat to do it again.

I just wish they had mare more complete changes with regards to the testing policy the last time they edited the CBA.

gonelong
06-08-2006, 01:16 PM
You honestly can't compare any day to day job with MLB. When you sign up for that million dollar job you are giving away certain rights that the average worker doesn't. IF it's in the CBA.

Sure I can. You don't give up any more rights to be a MLB player than the average worker does, its just that the press could are less about Joe average. There isn't anything stopping the press from writing about you or showing you on the news every night except that people could give a crap less about how many hits GL had in last nights wiffleball game (4, including 2 towing HRs).


The risk of the public comes into play when thinking of needing HGH testing in baseball. Nobody cares if trash collectors are tested, but the risk for children growing up and seeing their favorite ballplayer on HGH or steroids is a factor.

I personally don't see how that comes into play with kids. I have a little one (not quit 3) so I guess I haven't seen it affect my family just yet with kids/hero worship. However when I was a kid it was pretty obvious to me that a guy like Chris Henry was a knucklehead and that was not the way to go about things.

GL

savafan
06-08-2006, 01:18 PM
If Grimsley named Rafael Palmeiro in the affidavit, does the federal government have the option of reopening it's perjury case against him, or has that ship sailed?

RedsBaron
06-08-2006, 01:33 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&id=2474247
Stark's article was good, even though he made at least one error. The Indians are not the only team in the last 70 years to score 1000 runs in a season. The 1950 Red Sox, with Ted Williams injured much of the year, scored 1027 runs.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 01:40 PM
If Grimsley named Rafael Palmeiro in the affidavit, does the federal government have the option of reopening it's perjury case against him, or has that ship sailed?
I'd say that's still a possibility. Strictly a guess.

RedFanAlways1966
06-08-2006, 01:43 PM
If Grimsley named Rafael Palmeiro in the affidavit, does the federal government have the option of reopening it's perjury case against him, or has that ship sailed?


I would think so. Not double-jeopardy if you have not been tried for it.

I would equate it to a cold-murder-case that suddenly finds out the murderer today b/c of DNA tests. As long as the murderer was not found not guilty in a trial, it is still an open case.

RedFanAlways1966
06-08-2006, 01:45 PM
Yes, I don't really want my employer to have any more knowledge of my personal life than possible. Should your employer have the knowledge of your cholesterol level? How about your PSA level or if you have syphilis?

I may want this information for myself, but I surely don't want my employer to have access to use or misuse this information. GL

Good points, GL. :thumbup:

Sea Ray
06-08-2006, 02:08 PM
I wonder if he will get paid for the rest of this year or any subsequent years if there are any on his current contract? My bet is he'll continue to get paid complete with meal money. It's a great system for these players

westofyou
06-08-2006, 02:15 PM
I wonder if he will get paid for the rest of this year or any subsequent years if there are any on his current contract? My bet is he'll continue to get paid complete with meal money. It's a great system for these players
They granted him his release and you can bet they had a settement behind closed doors about what would be said..... just like every other business in america that cut save face deals.

Sea Ray
06-08-2006, 03:37 PM
They granted him his release and you can bet they had a settement behind closed doors about what would be said..... just like every other business in america that cut save face deals.

No, not like every other business. In fact I can think of precious few that cut deals with an employee who is forced to leave due to a federal investigation.

If you're lucky they'll allow you to go on leave but it'll be unpaid leave.

membengal
06-08-2006, 06:36 PM
I will put this here rather than starting another thread...

Deadspin www.deadspin.com has been doing some digging, apparently, and has come up with some names previously blacked out. They do the usual disclaimers, but one name that comes up in their post is a bit of a shocker. An oblique shocker...

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/so-weve-got-some-affidavit-names-179400.php

GullyFoyle
06-08-2006, 07:13 PM
A lawyer for Jason Grimsley said last night that federal investigators pressured the disgraced Diamondback to wear a wire in an effort to catch Barry Bonds and other major leaguers admitting steroid use on tape, according to a published report.

Why is everyone so quick to believe Grimsley's Lawyer? I have not heard one reporter be skeptical of this...

and if I was his lawyer the first thing I'd do is get attention off my client and on to someone else... Bonds would be perfect... plus it spins Grimsely as making a stand.

jmcclain19
06-08-2006, 09:07 PM
I will put this here rather than starting another thread...

Deadspin www.deadspin.com has been doing some digging, apparently, and has come up with some names previously blacked out. They do the usual disclaimers, but one name that comes up in their post is a bit of a shocker. An oblique shocker...

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/so-weve-got-some-affidavit-names-179400.php

yeah it is..


Everyone’s guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we’ve been digging around … and some sources have given us some names.
How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can’t go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We’ll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we’re at an 8.
So. Let’s do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.
First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That’s former Royals general manager Allard Baird.
As many people have guessed, one of the “former players” who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn’t confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.
Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We’ve heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can’t confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.
Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source.. Later, this source provided him with “amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.” This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based “strength and conditioning guru.” (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)
Does Mihlfeld’s name sound familiar? If it doesn’t, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols’ personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols’ name is in the affidavit … but Mihlfeld’s is. If you read the document, it doesn’t say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.
Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we’re told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times

cincinnati chili
06-08-2006, 09:10 PM
Why is everyone so quick to believe Grimsley's Lawyer? I have not heard one reporter be skeptical of this...



Good point, but.... Novitsky is the IRS agent that went after Bonds. Didn't read "game of shadows", but I hear that the book (which is not exactly PRO-Bonds) portrays Novitsky as being a bit overzealous about his target, shall we say.

Separate point, if the government strongarms baseball's union into requiring blood dontations, then I figure they have to do the same for the other sports.

Baseball's steroid policy is the toughest of the big Four sports See here (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=2474104). I haven't seen a call for blood to be drawn in football, basketball or hockey.

cincinnati chili
06-08-2006, 09:26 PM
Another reason to believe Grimsley's attonery.

I read through the entire search warrant today, and iit's clear that the agent is trying to avenge Grimsley's non-cooperation.

In particular, there's a section where the agent includes a quote from Grimsley about a former player having "back acne."

Why does this need to be in a document that serves no other purpose than to convince a judge to allow a search?

Answer: because the agent wants to humiliate Grimsley.

GullyFoyle
06-08-2006, 09:39 PM
Another reason to believe Grimsley's attonery.

I read through the entire search warrant today, and iit's clear that the agent is trying to avenge Grimsley's non-cooperation.

In particular, there's a section where the agent includes a quote from Grimsley about a former player having "back acne."

Why does this need to be in a document that serves no other purpose than to convince a judge to allow a search?

Answer: because the agent wants to humiliate Grimsley.

I read it too (excellent read) but I don't think it implicates going after Bonds... it could be going after as many Performance Enhancing Drug user as possible. It was definitely trying to punish Grim.

(I didn't know that was the same agent as Bonds though, so that does make it more likely)

The question it raises in my mind is how many other Grimselys are out there that might be cooperating, and thus are not hearing about...

IslandRed
06-08-2006, 11:08 PM
Every time I read about the issue of blood testing pro or con, I remember an old Dilbert strip where he's told, "it would be illegal to search your home or your car for drugs, but we have no ethical problem with sucking the blood out of your body."

Having said that, in a performance-enhancer world, if a sport wants to be clean it's got to be pretty invasive about it.

TylerScottDavis
06-09-2006, 03:28 AM
anybody who comes back from tommy john in 8 months is alil fishy

Claussen returned from Tommy John in 10 months while with the Yankees. :eek:

reds44
06-09-2006, 03:31 AM
Claussen returned from Tommy John in 10 months while with the Yankees. :eek:
If he was taking HGH it didn't work very well.

:p:

TylerScottDavis
06-09-2006, 03:36 AM
If he was taking HGH it didn't work very well.

:p:

Makes you wonder how many guys are taking it just to recover from injuries faster and then stopping though, doesn't it? :help:

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 03:57 AM
www.thesmokinggun.com also has the afidavit. If you go check out there collection of celebity mugshots, including Neon Deion.
They should have blacked out his address

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 04:22 AM
Just from reading the affadavit, you can tell this guy is not a drug investigator. I'm not saying he did illegal things, IMO, he's just not a good drug investigator. IMO, he could/should have done things that would have lead to a more thorough and quicker investigation. Also, I'm not real impressed with his affadavit for a search warrant.

Jpup
06-09-2006, 06:38 AM
Fat Albert on the dope? no way. :eek: maybe that has something to do with the Pujols/Bonds love fest. Will he be the next guy that the government goes after?

Makes me wonder if the Reds pitching staff got so much better because some of these guys are not doing drugs anymore. There are several teams that have been suprises so far. Do we know who is really good anymore?

another point, the only people who are concerned about privacy when it comes to drug testing are the guilty ones. just my 2 cents. I would let my employer test me everyday, as long as I was getting paid during that time.

dabvu2498
06-09-2006, 09:37 AM
Just from reading the affadavit, you can tell this guy is not a drug investigator. I'm not saying he did illegal things, IMO, he's just not a good drug investigator. IMO, he could/should have done things that would have lead to a more thorough and quicker investigation. Also, I'm not real impressed with his affadavit for a search warrant.
He did a pretty good job of getting Grimsely to sing like a song-bird.

dabvu2498
06-09-2006, 09:39 AM
another point, the only people who are concerned about privacy when it comes to drug testing are the guilty ones. just my 2 cents. I would let my employer test me everyday, as long as I was getting paid during that time.
This is really getting into the political realm... but if you (we, I, all of us) allowed that, that would only be the beginning.

gonelong
06-09-2006, 10:21 AM
another point, the only people who are concerned about privacy when it comes to drug testing are the guilty ones. just my 2 cents. I would let my employer test me everyday, as long as I was getting paid during that time.

In my case, you are 100% wrong, and I know many people that are concerned about privacy issues and don't do drugs.

GL

Roy Tucker
06-09-2006, 10:26 AM
Interesting comments by Jeff Pearlman at http://www.slate.com/id/2142937

westofyou
06-09-2006, 11:12 AM
another point, the only people who are concerned about privacy when it comes to drug testing are the guilty ones. just my 2 cents. I would let my employer test me everyday, as long as I was getting paid during that time.My life belongs to me, not someone who signs my checks.

TeamBoone
06-09-2006, 01:08 PM
06/09/2006

Report: Feds on Grimsley to get Bonds
Reliever focus of probe on performance enhancers
By Barry M. Bloom / MLB.com

Reliever Jason Grimsley's lawyer said on Wednesday that his client was coerced into cooperation in order to target slugger Barry Bonds. (Getty Images)

PHOENIX -- Jason Grimsley's attorney said on Wednesday that his client was pressured by federal agents to lure other players into confidential conversations to find incriminating information about Giants slugger Barry Bonds, the Arizona Republic reported.
Grimsley declined to wear a wire so agents could record those conversations, and when he failed to cooperate, the agents leaked a sealed affidavit in which the former Arizona Diamondbacks pitcher admitted taking steroids and amphetamines, said the attorney, Edward F. Novak, one of the top criminal attorneys in Arizona.

"It was a specific effort to target Bonds," Novak told the newspaper. "We were told that Jason's cooperation was necessary to their case."

Bonds is reportedly under investigation in San Francisco where a federal grand jury is taking testimony regarding whether Bonds perjured himself about his own use of steroids in 2003 when he appeared in front of another grand jury investigating accusations against the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative (BALCO).

Bonds was among a number of athletes called to testify with immunity. None were charged. Bonds' former personal trainer, Greg Anderson, was among five people who ultimately were indicted. Anderson pled guilty, as 40 of the 42 charges against him were dismissed. He served three months in jail and three months under house arrest.

Asked by reporters in San Francisco on Thursday night about the latest revelations, Bonds declined to comment.

Jeff Novitzky, the U.S. Internal Revenue Service special agent in charge of the four-year-old investigation into BALCO, said in his affidavit that Grimsley, a 39-year-old veteran who was in his 15th big-league season, received a package containing two kits of human growth hormone (HGH) worth $1,600 each via the U.S. Postal Service on April 19 at his Scottsdale, Ariz., home. The IRS had been awaiting delivery of the shipment of the substance and Grimsley surrendered the kits when presented with a search warrant on that date to avoid a more complete search of his home.

Novitzky was also part of the group of federal officers who raided BALCO's San Francisco Bay Area headquarters in September 2003 and interviewed Victor Conte, the firm's founder and president, immediately after that incursion.

On Wednesday, Grimsley asked for and was granted his release from the Diamondbacks, who signed him as a free agent this past offseason for $825,000, an amount he will be paid in full, said Grimsley's agent, Joe Bick.

In the affidavit, investigators said they interviewed Grimsley for two hours. During the interview, Grimsley also named other players who have used performance-enhancing drugs, which are illegal to obtain in the U.S. without a prescription. In at least 15 places on pages 12 and 13 of the document, names of the other players were blacked out.

He also told investigators that he had been using steroids since 2000 and was informed by an unnamed source that he had tested positive for steroid use in 2003, the first year Major League Baseball randomly tested for performance-enhancing drugs.

A week after the initial interview, Grimsley said through Novak that he no longer would cooperate, the document said. Novak told the Republic that the pitcher's home was raided and searched on Tuesday, hours before reports about his problems surfaced.

Novak told the Republic that his client had been coerced by the agents to originally cooperate.

"They specifically told him, 'Don't call a lawyer.' They let him know that if he didn't cooperate they basically would terrorize his family and come in with guns drawn and lights flashing," Novak said.

The U.S. Attorneys Office in the Northern District of California issued a statement responding to Novak's claims.

"We believe that this search and the investigative procedures involved were conducted in a highly legal and appropriate fashion," spokesman Luke Macaulay said.

The Republic reported that Novak said that investigators asked Grimsley if he knew anybody on the Giants who might confide in him about Bonds. Novak said Grimsley refused to cooperate.

"They specifically asked him about Bonds and Jason said he didn't know Bonds well and didn't know whether he did or didn't use drugs," Novak said.

Additionally, the newspaper reported that on Tuesday, while the agents were in a six-hour search of Grimsley's home, Assistant U.S. Attorney Matt Parrella called Novak and told him that his client should reconsider cooperating based on new evidence that was found. Grimsley declined.

"[Parrella] told us he had until 1 p.m., and if Jason didn't agree to cooperate by then, they'd release the affidavit to MLB and the media," Novak said.

Grimsley continued to refuse and by the time he arrived at Chase Field for Tuesday evening's game against the Phillies, the feds made good on their threat. The original Republic story broke at 6:17 p.m. and Grimsley was warming up in the bullpen during the first inning as Russ Ortiz struggled while word flashed among Diamondbacks executives. Grimsley never got into the game.

From the time of the initial raid on April 19 until that moment on Tuesday, Grimsley hadn't informed the Diamondbacks of what was transpiring, a Diamondbacks official said on Thursday.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2476463

wolfboy
06-09-2006, 01:44 PM
My life belongs to me, not someone who signs my checks.

Well stated as usual.

GullyFoyle
06-09-2006, 02:26 PM
My life belongs to me, not someone who signs my checks.

I strongly agree, but if I was an entertainer and was told that to earn my multimillion dollar salary I had to give a blood test then I'd be OK with that.

If I was working at Walmart/McDonalds then no.

I think it is fair to say my expectations of privacy can change with the size of paycheck and the job being performed. But there should always be the option not to take the job.

gonelong
06-09-2006, 03:56 PM
The search warrent is here (http://www.azcentral.com/pdfs/060706grimsley.pdf)

Someone with the time and resources (can't load software at work) might run this against it for fun.

http://www.workshare.com/products/trace/

GL

Jpup
06-09-2006, 04:11 PM
My life belongs to me, not someone who signs my checks.

I don't disagree with that, but I have nothing to hide from anyone. Let me change my statement to this, where I work, the only ones that are worried about a drug test are the guilty ones. How's that?:D

gonelong
06-09-2006, 04:30 PM
I don't disagree with that, but I have nothing to hide from anyone. Let me change my statement to this, where I work, the only ones that are worried about a drug test are the guilty ones. How's that?:D

Sweet! Please post your Social Security number, your bank account numbers, and your mother's maiden name. ;)

I have nothing to hide either, I just don't with to offer any more than that which is neccessary.

GL

Cedric
06-09-2006, 04:33 PM
Sweet! Please post your Social Security number, your bank account numbers, and your mother's maiden name. ;)

I have nothing to hide either, I just don't with to offer any more than that which is neccessary.

GL

Well define neccessary.

If you decide to join a business where countless other employees are being shown to have been widely on illegal drugs, all bets are off. Add in the public safety aspect of this situation and it's not simple. IMO.

gonelong
06-09-2006, 05:24 PM
Well define neccessary.

If you decide to join a business where countless other employees are being shown to have been widely on illegal drugs, all bets are off. Add in the public safety aspect of this situation and it's not simple. IMO.

I agree.

I have been drug tested for employement. I have also refused to be drug tested for employment at a few places and found jobs elsewhere.

I just don't take it lightly ... and if I was a player I don't think I'd be willing to conceed a blood sample without extremely strict safe-guards in place to ensure that the samples stay in MLB control and is destroyed when no longer needed.

The last thing I'd want is some media outlet broadcasting my vital statistics (cholesterol, PSA, etc.) or some nut-job buying my sample as as a sourvineer or worse ... cloning me.

GL

zombie-a-go-go
06-09-2006, 05:28 PM
The last thing I'd want is some media outlet broadcasting my vital statistics (cholesterol, PSA, etc.) or some nut-job buying my sample as as a sourvineer or worse ... cloning me.

GL

The head of Ted Williams says hi?

BCubb2003
06-09-2006, 06:00 PM
"Dusty says his pitcher is not on a hormone count, but LaLoosh's level has dropped sharply this inning, and Sam Malone is warming in the bullpen."

savafan
06-09-2006, 08:15 PM
Interesting info on hGH:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/steroid-profiles/human-growth-hormone.htm

Human growth hormone, as prepared for medical use. This is currently the most expensive drug in use by athletes, so one should take special care when acquiring this on the black market. A high percentage of these items turn out to be relabeled HCG which bears a resemblance to GH. Some more unsterile and dangerous counterfeits have also been reported. Growth hormone itself is very delicate and is best stored at cool temperatures and used quickly. This is added worry, even when purchasing legitimate GH, as the item may not have been handled properly before purchase.

Human growth hormone (hGH) is produced by somatotropes in the pituitary gland of the human brain. Somatotropes make up more than 50% of the pituitary gland and growth hormone is by far the most important hormone produced there. By the age of 60 most people will have approximately 80% less growth hormone in their system than when they were 20. Signs of GH reduction include increased body fat, increased anxiety, social isolation, poor general health, and lack of positive well being. GH has been the supplement of choice for many professional athletes over the years. American football great, Lyle Alzado, claimed that 80% of all professional American football players, including himself, have taken GH. GH has amazing age-reversing effects that make it possibly the strongest anabolic substance available. Some of the benefits associated with GH supplementation include the reversal of common diseases associated with aging, improved brain activity and function, it strengthens connective tissue which reduces the probability of injury, incredible weight loss without any loss in lean mass, reduces wrinkles by rejuvenating the skin, it raises energy levels and brightens mood, promotes muscle growth, improves libido, improves functions of the lungs which increases the level of oxygen in the blood stream, provides immune system support and Thymus function, and probably the most impressive characteristic is, its ability to produce more muscle cells, something no steroid can do.

There has been a lot of controversy around GH and its effectiveness. While one athlete may make tremendous strides toward his goal, another may see practically no improvement at all. This is easily explained. Because GH is dosage-dependent, often times an athlete doesn't use enough, long enough. A sufficient dose of GH can cost around $150-$170 per day and a common black market price is around $20-$30 per I.U. making GH possibly the most expensive supplement. Another misconception is that GH by itself is the answer. GH by itself is practically useless. The real problem isn't a lack of GH secretion but a lack of GH conversion in the liver. There are two other hormones that are needed for maximum anabolic effect; insulin, and Cytomel or other LT-3 thyroid hormone. This can be further enhanced by the supplementation of other anticatabolic drugs such as steroids, Clenbuterol, or an ephedrine based supplement.

It is tough to find out what the most effective dosages are. According to our sources, it is popular to use about .3 I.U./week for each pound of body weight. For example a person weighing 200lbs. will need 60 I.U. per week. The dosages can be injected intramuscularly three times a week broken into 20 I.U. injections. A more popular way to inject is subcutaneously (under the skin and above the muscle) using 1/2" insulin needles. When injected this way the dosage should be done daily in small intervals alternating to each side of the body with each injection. American doctors often prescribe a dosage of 2 I.U. per day, however a popular dosage is between 4-10 I.U. a day. When injecting GH, it is important to not inject in the same area every time.

Side effects of GH are not at all the same as with anabolic and androgenic steroids. Most common side effects are hypoglycemia (low blood sugar level) and inadequate thyroid function. A huge misconception, brought on by the mass media, is that Giantism is a common side effect of using GH in the normal human body. This is only true if GH is used during the pre-pubescent period time in ones life. It is very important that a person be completely full grown and mature before using GH. Other rare side effects include diabetes, heart enlargement, high blood pressure, and enlargement of the kidneys. The most common problem is not with the injecting of GH, but the injecting of the insulin to go with it. Improper injection of insulin can lead to serious problems.

Growth Hormone comes from the substance somatotropin which is available in a powder form as well. It must be mixed with the solution that it comes with before it can be injected. It is suggested that the solution be injected immediately or stored in the refrigerator.

savafan
06-14-2006, 03:34 AM
MLB has suspended Grimsley for 50 games (even though he says he has retired). They haven't suspended him for failing a drug test, because he didn't fail one (except for 2003, which was supposed to have been anonymous). Instead, they suspended him for what he told the feds. One would wonder if this is to be the case, then why haven't Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield been suspended 50 games of their leaked grand jury testimony?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-bbnotes13jun13,1,4770294.story?coll=la-headlines-sports

Tim Brown, From Times Staff and Wire Reports
June 13, 2006

Six days after federal agents raided his home as part of a drug investigation, former Arizona pitcher Jason Grimsley was suspended by Major League Baseball for 50 games, the penalty for a first-time offense under the joint drug agreement.

Grimsley, who during the federal investigation admitted to using steroids, amphetamines and human growth hormone during his career, has effectively retired, his agent reiterated Monday.

Grimsley apparently did not test positive for performance-enhancing drugs after baseball began the disciplinary phase of its program in 2004. He also has not been convicted of or charged with use, possession or intent to distribute the drugs he told investigators he'd received and ingested since 2000.

The commissioner's office, however, handed down the suspension based on Grimsley's confession to federal agents April 19 and contained in an affidavit filed last week in U.S. District Court of Arizona.

The Players' Assn. has the right to file a grievance, which would be heard before an independent arbitrator. The union intends to confer with Grimsley before choosing its course, spokesman Greg Bouris said.

Baseball is the first U.S. professional sports league to sanction a player who has not failed a drug test. U.S. sprinters Tim Montgomery and Chryste Gaines were suspended for two years based on evidence gathered in the BALCO case, a decision upheld by the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport.

Grimsley, who asked for and received his release Wednesday, would serve the suspension if he returned to a 40-man roster. The union will appeal the Diamondbacks' refusal to pay Grimsley the remainder of his $825,000 salary, as is required to released players.

"It is a blatant violation of the basic agreement," Bouris said, "and we intend to grieve that shortly."

Of the suspension, Diamondbacks managing general partner Ken Kendrick told the Associated Press, "I think he earned it. … He violated the agreement. Obviously, MLB feels that he did. That's [Commissioner Bud Selig's] decision and I think it's the right decision and I applaud him for it."

Grimsley's agent, Joe Bick, said Grimsley has not and probably would not file retirement paperwork with the league.

"We're aware of what has transpired," Bick said of the suspension, "and all parties involved will proceed accordingly."

KronoRed
06-14-2006, 04:24 AM
One would wonder if this is to be the case, then why haven't Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield been suspended 50 games of their leaked grand jury testimony?

Because they are Bonds, Giambi and Sheffield and not a middle reliever ;)

BCubb2003
06-14-2006, 04:52 AM
I think it's because Grimsley's confession was in a police statement and public, and whatever the other three testified to was in a secret grand jury.

Jpup
06-14-2006, 07:21 AM
I think it's because Grimsley's confession was in a police statement and public, and whatever the other three testified to was in a secret grand jury.

or maybe they admitted to using before the league had a steroid policy?

Yachtzee
06-14-2006, 10:18 AM
or maybe they admitted to using before the league had a steroid policy?

The league has long had a policy against illicit drug use. Illicit use of steroids has been outlawed since 1991. The problem has always been that MLB couldn't test for it. If they admitted to steroid use after 1991, they could be disciplined.