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jimbo
06-07-2006, 02:03 AM
"I think every time we were looking for a fastball he threw a changeup, and every time we were looking for a changeup, he threw a fastball," Molina said. "He's a great pitcher, one of the best in the National League."

He was talking about Milton. After last season, I never in my wildest dreams would have thought I'd ever hear a major league player saying this about Eric Milton.

Don't get me wrong, I still have my reservations about him, but he is showing he knows how to pitch if healthy.

RedEye
06-07-2006, 02:07 AM
I was just going to post that quote, too. Of course, Yadier was fresh off a baffling game against Milty. He is a catcher, though, so you wouldn't think he would throw that kind of compliment aroung lightly. Have to say I really, REALLY like our top three starters much more than I thought I would at this stage.

Is that Soto's change he's throwing?

reds44
06-07-2006, 02:08 AM
I was just going to post that quote, too. Of course, Yadier was fresh off a baffling game against Milty. He is a catcher, though, so you wouldn't think he would throw that kind of compliment aroung lightly. Have to say I really, REALLY like our top three starters much more than I thought I would at this stage.

Is that Soto's change he's throwing?
Milton has been solid, and so has Elizardo.

Who knew?

KronoRed
06-07-2006, 02:12 AM
He's never pitched this well for an entire season, meaning I'm afraid of the inevitable return to earth, hopefully it won't be too bad, he's looked nice lately.

RedEye
06-07-2006, 02:12 AM
If Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA at the end of July, do we still shop him? I say no.

reds44
06-07-2006, 02:15 AM
If Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA at the end of July, do we still shop him? I say no.
Depends if we are still contending or not.

RedEye
06-07-2006, 02:22 AM
We are still contending in July. Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA. Do we shop him?

dougdirt
06-07-2006, 02:25 AM
Shop him, yes. Trade him....that all depends on what teams are offering.

CTA513
06-07-2006, 02:26 AM
"I think every time we were looking for a fastball he threw a changeup, and every time we were looking for a changeup, he threw a fastball," Molina said. "He's a great pitcher, one of the best in the National League."

He was talking about Milton. After last season, I never in my wildest dreams would have thought I'd ever hear a major league player saying this about Eric Milton.

Don't get me wrong, I still have my reservations about him, but he is showing he knows how to pitch if healthy.

I remember hearing someone say that Milton is using his off speed pitches more this year.

reds44
06-07-2006, 02:26 AM
We are still contending in July. Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA. Do we shop him?
Probably not.

kyred14
06-07-2006, 03:05 AM
If I could find a sucker to take that contract, I'd trade him for a bag of peanuts without thinking twice.

KronoRed
06-07-2006, 03:11 AM
If Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA at the end of July, do we still shop him? I say no.
Yes, no matter what.

RAS
06-07-2006, 05:12 AM
With the way our starters have performed, other than Claussen, who I still think will eventually come around, we are very solid. I would not give up value in the minors combined with quality major leaguers on the roster for another starter at this point. Milton has been outstanding. You could see from the start of this season that he has more velocity and a changeup that he has faith in. I think his good run is here to stay this year.

redsmetz
06-07-2006, 05:20 AM
If Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA at the end of July, do we still shop him? I say no.

Let's stop shopping everybody and play ball. I think this team is the real deal and we're going to stay in contention all season.

EKURed
06-07-2006, 07:12 AM
Let's stop shopping everybody and play ball. I think this team is the real deal and we're going to stay in contention all season.

Exactly. I think the talk of shopping players can be almost completely squelched for now. The Reds are contending and show no signs of going away. The only shopping it looks like the Reds will do will be for additions, not subtractions.

KYRedsFan
06-07-2006, 07:21 AM
If we're contending, keep the team intact.

Jpup
06-07-2006, 07:50 AM
You can tell why LaRussa likes Molina. They both makes some silly quotes. This reminds me on LaRussa's comments about Dave Williams.

Wow.:D

Milton has looked good, but he's got to get those pitches down. He's going to get burned sooner or later. You just can't pitch that high in the zone with his stuff, it won't work for long, although I hope I'm wrong.

Red Heeler
06-07-2006, 08:48 AM
If Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA at the end of July, do we still shop him? I say no.

Paul Wilson says "Hi!" He would wave, too, but he can't lift his right arm.

You trade Milton at the first opportunity because if you don't, you have to pay Eric Milton $9 million+ to pitch for your team next year. Maybe he doesn't emplode this year, but I sure don't trust him to pitch well for another 18 months.

smith288
06-07-2006, 09:15 AM
Whenever Milton gets lit up, DL him... because when he is not in pain, he's tough to beat.

HotCorner
06-07-2006, 09:28 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/SPT04/606070323/1071


Subtract the start before and the start after Milton's stint on the disabled list (April 24-May 20), and Milton has been sensational in his five remaining starts (4-1, 1.73 ERA, two walks).

registerthis
06-07-2006, 09:32 AM
Those of you clamoring for a trade of Milton as soon as humanly possible realize that he can be traded in the offseason too, right? If he manages to finish the season with a dozen wins and an ERA around the 4.50 range, he'll have some suitors. I'm not completely averse to trading him DURING the season--even if the Reds are contending--provided the Reds get something of value in return. I'm past the point of asking only for a bucket of balls for Milton. If he's pitching effectively and the Reds are contending, I'm in no huge rush to deal him. Keep all of your options open--including keeping him.

REDREAD
06-07-2006, 09:33 AM
We are still contending in July. Milty has a sub 4.50 ERA. Do we shop him?

No, if you are contending, you keep Milton if he's pitching like that.
After this year, there's only one year left on his contract. So, even if he stinks next year, it's worth it not to torpedo a contending season.

What the Reds need just as bad as more starting pitching is to get the fans back. If the team contends this year, you don't pull a 2000/2003 and start dumping people (even if it's "fool's gold" contending).

We have to be honest, if Milton is pitching well and we deal him at the deadline, what front line pitcher is going to want to come here? Do you think Mulder, Zito, or whoever is going to want to sign as a free agent, only to be treated like trade bait?

If Milton is giving us good starts, then why dump him just to remove his contract 1 year earlier? Keep in mind that the "payflex" freed is not likely going to attract a pitcher that's better than what Milton is doing now.

HotCorner
06-07-2006, 09:34 AM
The one game he lost of these five he threw 8 innings against Arizona giving up only one run and striking out nine.

Here's his game log: http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/5944/gamelog;_ylt=Alpx8n6_iCdfFWnUG0bQEPGFCLcF

Kc61
06-07-2006, 09:45 AM
If Milton was hurt last year, I wish he just would have said so. He is a very different pitcher now that his knee is fixed.

redsfan30
06-07-2006, 09:54 AM
He can be very impressive when he's throwing in the low 90's with his fastball then come back with a 78 MPH change.

Milton's changeup this year has been VERY good.

LincolnparkRed
06-07-2006, 10:32 AM
We have to be honest, if Milton is pitching well and we deal him at the deadline, what front line pitcher is going to want to come here? Do you think Mulder, Zito, or whoever is going to want to sign as a free agent, only to be treated like trade bait?

If Milton is giving us good starts, then why dump him just to remove his contract 1 year earlier? Keep in mind that the "payflex" freed is not likely going to attract a pitcher that's better than what Milton is doing now.

Good points but I would not include Mulder in the discussion of pitchers to go after. he has not been very impressive in the few times I have seen him. He and Hudson have both slipped up in their second seasons away from Oakland.

jimbo
06-07-2006, 10:39 AM
Milton has looked good, but he's got to get those pitches down. He's going to get burned sooner or later. You just can't pitch that high in the zone with his stuff, it won't work for long, although I hope I'm wrong.

He can get away with being high in the strike zone a little more this year with his changeup being so effective because he is keeping hitters off-balance.

I don't like the idea of dumping salaries of players who are getting it done while the team is in serious contention. If the team is out of it by the trading deadline and Milton is still pitching like this, by all means shop him around. If the Reds are in the thick of it, you keep the players who have gotten you there, next year will take care of itself.

STLRedsBacker
06-07-2006, 10:45 AM
Take out Milton's start where he injured his knee, and his start directly after, and the man has been rock-solid this season on the hill.

klw
06-07-2006, 10:47 AM
One other reason not to send a successful Milton packing is that if he is seen as having been roughed up in GABP but succeeds after it may add to the perception of GABP being a awful place for pitchers. His success here, were it to grow, would fight that perception and may make it easier to land other FA pitchers.

TeamBoone
06-07-2006, 11:36 AM
If Milton was hurt last year, I wish he just would have said so. He is a very different pitcher now that his knee is fixed.

If he was without pain in his knee, he may not have realized it.

shredda2000
06-07-2006, 11:36 AM
He can be very impressive when he's throwing in the low 90's with his fastball then come back with a 78 MPH change.

Milton's changeup this year has been VERY good.

According to the article below on Reds.com, Milton has really developed his changeup in the past few weeks...and it shows!!!

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20060606&content_id=1492236&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

MattyHo4Life
06-07-2006, 11:48 AM
"I think every time we were looking for a fastball he threw a changeup, and every time we were looking for a changeup, he threw a fastball," Molina said. "He's a great pitcher, one of the best in the National League."

He was talking about Milton. After last season, I never in my wildest dreams would have thought I'd ever hear a major league player saying this about Eric Milton.

Don't get me wrong, I still have my reservations about him, but he is showing he knows how to pitch if healthy.

Throughout the last few years, I've noticed that Cardinals players often compliment players on the other team after a losing game. I think it's the right thing to do, and it shows sportsmanship. If you think the opposing pitcher had a great game, then admit it. Don't say that he was lucky, or that it was only because you had a bad game. I've noticed the opposite from Astros players. They never seem to give credit to their opponent. When they lose a game, they seem to say that it was because they had a bad day, or they didn't do something right. Sometimes, the opposing pitcher is just too good for you. It may be tough to admit, but it shows good sportsmanship if you can admit it.

Jr's Boy
06-07-2006, 11:58 AM
Let's stop shopping everybody and play ball. I think this team is the real deal and we're going to stay in contention all season.


AMEN

REDREAD
06-07-2006, 12:48 PM
Good points but I would not include Mulder in the discussion of pitchers to go after. he has not been very impressive in the few times I have seen him. He and Hudson have both slipped up in their second seasons away from Oakland.

Ok, I haven't really followed him this year. I was just trying to throw out some names of high profile free agent pitchers this fall. Maybe Mulder is a bad example then.

IMO, the best way to attract a free agent starter is to keep Milton (if Milton is doing well). No one is going to want to come to Cincy just to be trade bait the following year.

reds44
06-07-2006, 12:53 PM
Ok, I haven't really followed him this year. I was just trying to throw out some names of high profile free agent pitchers this fall. Maybe Mulder is a bad example then.

IMO, the best way to attract a free agent starter is to keep Milton (if Milton is doing well). No one is going to want to come to Cincy just to be trade bait the following year.
Very true.

Maldez
06-07-2006, 12:53 PM
I know Milton pitched a great game yesterday, but don't you really have to give a lot of credit to David Ross? I mean if batters are being constantly kept off balance by getting pitches they're not expecting it's the catcher who should get the kudos.

jimbo
06-07-2006, 12:57 PM
I know Milton pitched a great game yesterday, but don't you really have to give a lot of credit to David Ross? I mean if batters are being constantly kept off balance by getting pitches they're not expecting it's the catcher who should get the kudos.

You make an excellent point. Catchers often do not get the credit they deserve when their pitchers are successful. From what I've seen, I really like how Ross handles this staff.

TeamBoone
06-07-2006, 12:57 PM
Milton has pitched well with the other catchers too.

Red Heeler
06-07-2006, 01:38 PM
Those of you clamoring for a trade of Milton as soon as humanly possible realize that he can be traded in the offseason too, right? If he manages to finish the season with a dozen wins and an ERA around the 4.50 range, he'll have some suitors. I'm not completely averse to trading him DURING the season--even if the Reds are contending--provided the Reds get something of value in return. I'm past the point of asking only for a bucket of balls for Milton. If he's pitching effectively and the Reds are contending, I'm in no huge rush to deal him. Keep all of your options open--including keeping him.

Jimmy Haynes says, "Howdy!"

It is always better to trade a player too soon than too late. Milton may just make it through the season with a 4.50-ish ERA, but it is certainly not a sure thing. In fact, it is more likely that he ends the year with an ERA close to 5.00. As he sits with his ERA currently at 4.14, that means that he is due for some stinkers coming up soon. I certainly don't want those stinkers thrown while in a Reds uniform from a competetive standpoint. Those stinkers will torpedo any hope of trading him, too.

registerthis
06-07-2006, 01:44 PM
Jimmy Haynes says, "Howdy!"

He certainly does, and the Reds say "D'Oh" for re-sgining him after his 15 win year. I didn't say Milton was, forever more, going to be a productive pitcher--only that there would be a market for him if he finished with the numbers I posted. And there would be.


It is always better to trade a player too soon than too late. Milton may just make it through the season with a 4.50-ish ERA, but it is certainly not a sure thing. In fact, it is more likely that he ends the year with an ERA close to 5.00. As he sits with his ERA currently at 4.14, that means that he is due for some stinkers coming up soon.

Milton has been an effective pitcher in the past, it's entirely possible that he could finish somewhere in the neighborhood of 12-10, 4.50. And if his ERA balloons like it did last year, there's a good chance the Reds will have fallen out of contention. It's better to trade early than late--of course. But it's also good to know when a trade would benefit your club, and when it could dismantle it. The Reds need every starter performing at top levels to be competitive for the remainder of the year. If Milton's producing and the Reds are winning, you don't trade him. Perhaps in the offseason, but not then.

reds44
06-07-2006, 01:47 PM
Doesn't Milton only have 1 year left on his contract after this anyway?

Might as well hold onto him if he is pitching well.

Chip R
06-07-2006, 01:51 PM
Throughout the last few years, I've noticed that Cardinals players often compliment players on the other team after a losing game. I think it's the right thing to do, and it shows sportsmanship. If you think the opposing pitcher had a great game, then admit it. Don't say that he was lucky, or that it was only because you had a bad game. I've noticed the opposite from Astros players. They never seem to give credit to their opponent. When they lose a game, they seem to say that it was because they had a bad day, or they didn't do something right. Sometimes, the opposing pitcher is just too good for you. It may be tough to admit, but it shows good sportsmanship if you can admit it.

I wonder where they got it from cause I know Tony was none too complimentary to the Reds when they swept his A's in 1990.

jimbo
06-07-2006, 01:54 PM
Jimmy Haynes says, "Howdy!"

It is always better to trade a player too soon than too late. Milton may just make it through the season with a 4.50-ish ERA, but it is certainly not a sure thing. In fact, it is more likely that he ends the year with an ERA close to 5.00. As he sits with his ERA currently at 4.14, that means that he is due for some stinkers coming up soon. I certainly don't want those stinkers thrown while in a Reds uniform from a competetive standpoint. Those stinkers will torpedo any hope of trading him, too.

Nothing is a sure thing. It is not a sure thing that he will close out the year with an ERA of close to 5.00. It isn't like he has pitched one gem amongst several shellings. Throw out the game where he got rocked by Florida and it was found he was injured and the Detroit game, which was basically a rehab start, and he has been superb. He is a completely different pitcher when compared to last season.

Of course he is going to throw a few stinkers, who doesn't? Pedro pitched one just last night (and no, I'm not comparing Milton to Pedro). The difference between last year and this is that last season he threw them pretty much every 5 days. With the addition of his changeup and the strength he now has in his legs, I don't see that happening this season.

I mentioned this in the game thread last night. His follow-thru this season is different, or so it seems to me. You can tell he is throwing with more strength in his legs by the way he is kicking that left leg during his follow-thru.

KronoRed
06-07-2006, 04:33 PM
Doesn't Milton only have 1 year left on his contract after this anyway?

Might as well hold onto him if he is pitching well.
2007 at almost 10 million.

I wouldn't take that chance

registerthis
06-07-2006, 04:46 PM
2007 at almost 10 million.

I wouldn't take that chance

trade hiim by the deadline if we're not in contention.

Trade him in the offseason if we are.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-07-2006, 05:02 PM
trade hiim by the deadline if we're not in contention.

Trade him in the offseason if we are.

BINGO!

Mario-Rijo
06-07-2006, 08:29 PM
Goodness this might be the single biggest bonehead thing I have ever typed on Redszone or any other message board, but I have this thing about trying to be optimistic. I know it sounds crazy but we might actually end up seeing the very best of Eric Milton. As bad as he was last year I gotta believe he can do no worse for starters.

Here is my thinking on this subject, just here me out before you come to the conclusion that I have lost it (this is assuming that you ever thought I had it to begin with).

The Facts:
A.) He has mainly always relied on his FB 1st & foremost.
Career ERA coming into '05 was 4.51

B.) He always pitched in the A.L. until '04

C.) Still has a workable FB, but now has begun to become more of a pitcher. Mixing up w/ a curve, slider & now an improved Change-up. And moving the ball around the zone a bit more.

D.) In the offseason moved from the 3rd base side of the rubber to the 1st base, per Browning this was to give him a better angle to get further inside on RH batters.

E.) Has finally cleaned up a knee that has been a major issue.

Guys he has dang near re-invented himself. Assuming we can find ways to keep his knee from getting weary at times, we might have a "New" Eric Milton. He's gonna still be a flyball pitcher because he throws a 4 seamer but if he can keep guys off-balance with that change-up and continue to get inside with that FB-Slider combo he could cut dow those longballs dramatically. He isn't a guy who walks alot of guys, so I could actually see a 3.50 era by the end of the season.

Sure he is gonna have his days but if he throws another game or 2 like the 3 he has in a row now his confidence is gonna soar big time. Put all these things together he could have a career year. Of course it all depends on the leg(s) of his!

You don't have to agree but see how well he does from here on out. A good sign if his knee is bothering him is his velocity will be usually top out around 88-89. If his velocity in any game stays @ 90-91 and his command is there for at least 2 pitches I don't see him giving up more than 3-4 runs. By this criteria we should be able to determine whether he's better, typical or a worse Version of Eric Milton!

Oh BTW you deal him if you can get a solid long-term return or an impact immediate player, who knows how long that knee holds up!

Disclaimer:
I'm cautiously stating this with just a small sample size here.

TeamSelig
06-08-2006, 02:25 AM
He costs too much to trade, even if performing well. If he pitches good this year, and at the start of next season, we should be able to shop him at the end of the deadline.

Jpup
06-08-2006, 06:05 AM
...remember this, if he doesn't learn to pitch down in the zone, he's going to get killed. That is why Aaron Harang has been so good this year and most of last season. Milton doesn't have the stuff, it will catch up to him.

trade him at all costs.

again, I hope I'm wrong, but I've never watched a guy with his type of stuff, pitch up in zone and have success. It just doesn't happen too often. As the summer heats up, you have to think his ERA will as well.

klw
09-20-2006, 01:26 PM
bump up down memory lane

TOBTTReds
09-20-2006, 01:27 PM
I'll wait to hear a good hitter say this at any time. Molina is a hole in the Cards lineup, it doesn't cut it for me to be a solid baseball thought.

redsupport
09-20-2006, 01:45 PM
The Cardinals are adept at spreading ingenuous information. Larussa claimed that dave Williams was one of the best pitchers in the league.

reds44
09-20-2006, 08:09 PM
Milton has been solid, and so has Elizardo.
Who knew?
Ooops.

REDREAD
09-22-2006, 05:11 PM
I think we might need a "RedsZones Reruns" forum :lol:

It would be nice if the board could somehow flag a thread coming back from the grave.