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Krusty
06-08-2006, 01:24 AM
How about this for a July trading deadline deal especially if both teams are in contention:

Reds trading OF Adam Dunn to the Tigers for RHP Jeremy Bonderman.

Tigers: It would be difficult for them to part with Bonderman especially with Maroth's shoulder being a question mark and the Tigers' strength being their starting pitching. BUT, the Tigers are looking for a lefthanded DH who can play LF too. Dunn fills that requirement and has the power to hit it out of any ballpark.

Reds: Don't think Krivsky will buy that the starting pitching is rock solid. Claussen has become an enigma and the jury is still out if Ramirez can be a solid starting pitcher over the longhaul. Bonderman gives the Reds another solid starter. Pitching and defense is what wins in the playoffs. Losing Dunn hurts offensively or does it? It has been well documented on this site about Dunn's ability to hit with the game on the line. The Reds have options with Freel and possibly Denorifia as replacements. If Krivsky didn't have a problem parting with dimensional power hitting outfielder in Pena for a starting pitcher, who is to say he wouldn't do the same involving Dunn?

So would a Dunn for Bonderman deal make sense for both sides?

MWM
06-08-2006, 01:31 AM
Why does everyone talk about Bonderman like he's a great pitcher? I hear it all the time and don't understand it at all. He's not, never has been, and likely never will be. We're talking about a guy who has a career ERA of 4.9 and a WHIP of 1.37. I know he's still young, but he's nothing more than a #3 or #4. And he's a Tommy John waiting to happen with all the innings he's thrown at such a young age.

I was thinking that the Tigers might be the perfect candidate for Eric Milton. With Maroth out and Detroit fans crazy to make it happen this season, they that might be a good fit for him, especially in that park. I'd settle for one of their middle relievers.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 01:32 AM
Bad deal for the Reds. Bonderman is a B-level starter at best. Dunn is A-level offensive talent, for reasons that have been explained on this board countless times.

Krusty
06-08-2006, 01:37 AM
Bad deal for the Reds. Bonderman is a B-level starter at best. Dunn is A-level offensive talent, for reasons that have been explained on this board countless times.

I don't think Dunn is A-level offensive talent. Guys like Junior and Pujols are A-level talent.

Would you trade Dunn in a three-way deal with the Marlins in order to get LHP Dontrelle Willis? If you swing Dunn to Detroit for prospects that the Marlins would agree to, would you be happy with Willis?

pedro
06-08-2006, 01:38 AM
As much as I hate to say it MWM, now that it doesn't seem that budget is as big a deal for the Reds I don't want them to trade Milton. I know he's not great but they really don't have anyone better.

As for the deal posed? Krusty I don't like it and I don't think the Tigers will trade a SP during the season anyway.

My dreams these days revolve arond a 15 game Giant losing streak and a trade for Jason Schmidt and Kearns is the one I'm trading to get that done.

Nugget
06-08-2006, 01:40 AM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47058

Krusty
06-08-2006, 01:40 AM
As much as I hate to say it MWM, now that it doesn't seem that budget is as big a deal for the Reds I don't want them to trade Milton. I know he's not great but they really don't have anyone better.

As for the deal posed? Krusty I don't like it and I don't think the Tigers will trade a SP during the season anyway.

My dreams these days revolve arond a 15 game Giant losing streak and a trade for Jason Schmidt and Kearns is the one I'm trading to get that done.

Next to Junior, I think Kearns has been the most productive hitter on the team.

Krusty
06-08-2006, 01:43 AM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47058

I have made my living on this site throwing out trade proposals just to chew on. If they came true, I would be working for the Reds.

You throw out the trade proposal to see maybe the Reds would trade a player like Dunn to acquire a pitcher for the stretch run.

NewEraReds
06-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Next to Junior, I think Kearns has been the most productive hitter on the team.
and a much bettter all around player than dunn. id trade dunn for as much pitching as i could get

pedro
06-08-2006, 01:43 AM
Next to Junior, I think Kearns has been the most productive hitter on the team.

yeah, but his value is pretty high now, I don't know if it will stay there as he's been pretty volotile value wise over his career. It might just be time for the Reds to cash out and Jason Schmidt makes this team a contender IMO. Kearns AB's go to Denofria and Freel.

pedro
06-08-2006, 01:45 AM
and a much bettter all around player than dunn. id trade dunn for as much pitching as i could get

But Dunn is consistently healthy and produces at a high level every year. As good as Kearns has been, he was nearly a wash out as recently as last year. I think the Reds shoudl gamble on the sure thing and that is Dunn IMO.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 01:50 AM
I don't think Dunn is A-level offensive talent. Guys like Junior and Pujols are A-level talent.

Like I said, we've been over this countless times. I do think he's A-level talent. Pujols is A-plus.


Would you trade Dunn in a three-way deal with the Marlins in order to get LHP Dontrelle Willis? If you swing Dunn to Detroit for prospects that the Marlins would agree to, would you be happy with Willis?

I'd be happier with Willis than with Bonderman, but I'd be happiest with Dunn still on the team.

Krusty
06-08-2006, 02:04 AM
I would see if the Reds could swing Dunn to the Angels for prospects (they need a DH) and flip those prospects to Florida for LHP Dontrelle Willis.

KronoRed
06-08-2006, 02:17 AM
Trading Dunn would send a bad sign, just like trading JR would.

pedro
06-08-2006, 02:18 AM
I would see if the Reds could swing Dunn to the Angels for prospects (they need a DH) and flip those prospects to Florida for LHP Dontrelle Willis.


How about targeting some Angels pitchers? They're out of it.

roby
06-08-2006, 02:20 AM
Krusty: I think you're thinking in the right vein. Dunn is the man to move. He is abysmal with men in scoring position..it is getting painful to watch. The Reds should move him before other teams begin to realize that his stats are padded when it doesn't matter. I have never seen a player who is less clutch receive such high praise as Adam Dunn.

KronoRed
06-08-2006, 02:24 AM
When it doesn't matter? with this bullpen all runs matter.

kyred14
06-08-2006, 02:40 AM
I can see where this is going. sigh

SteelSD
06-08-2006, 02:52 AM
I don't think Dunn is A-level offensive talent. Guys like Junior and Pujols are A-level talent.

I see. Ken Griffey Junior is an "A-level" talent, but here's what you said about him yesterday:


I don't see Griffey going anywhere especially what is still owed on his contract and injury history.

Which is it? Is Griffey an "A-level" talent who, as such, should certainly be worth his full contract to any team looking to acquire him or is he a dramatically overpaid injury waiting to happen?

If Griffey is an "A-level" offensive talent right now, he's actually cheap by MLB standards. If that's the case, Griffey should be extremely desirable and the Reds should easily be able to acquire more talent for him than if they swapped Dunn.

Yet you appear to view Griffey (an "A-level" talent) as an immovable object. Can't have it both ways.

pedro
06-08-2006, 02:54 AM
Next to Junior, I think Kearns has been the most productive hitter on the team.

If you go by RC/27 it goes Ross, Dunn, Griffey, Kearns, Encarnacion, Phillips.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=cin&seasonYear=2006&seasonType=2&type=exp&pagetype=batting

BucksandReds
06-08-2006, 02:57 AM
Pitching, pitching, pitching. It's like money no one has enough and everyone always wants more. I think the only valuable trade we would get is from a team that wants to dump salary (i.e. Florida) in a three way deal.

billy117
06-08-2006, 03:07 AM
If you go by RC/27 it goes Ross, Dunn, Griffey, Kearns, Encarnacion, Phillips.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/Statistics/Team/playerstats?team=cin&seasonYear=2006&seasonType=2&type=exp&pagetype=batting

Well I don't go by RC/27. The stat I go by, and I've been very adament about this stat's importance, is HBP. If you need help with the formula let me know.

Shaggy Sanchez
06-08-2006, 03:14 AM
Well I don't go by RC/27. The stat I go by, and I've been very adament about this stat's importance, is HBP. If you need help with the formula let me know.

If you feel the most important stat is a players ability to get hit by a pitch than obviously you agree that Larue is the most valuable Red.:evil:

edabbs44
06-08-2006, 06:57 AM
Why does everyone talk about Bonderman like he's a great pitcher? I hear it all the time and don't understand it at all. He's not, never has been, and likely never will be. We're talking about a guy who has a career ERA of 4.9 and a WHIP of 1.37. I know he's still young, but he's nothing more than a #3 or #4. And he's a Tommy John waiting to happen with all the innings he's thrown at such a young age.

I was thinking that the Tigers might be the perfect candidate for Eric Milton. With Maroth out and Detroit fans crazy to make it happen this season, they that might be a good fit for him, especially in that park. I'd settle for one of their middle relievers.
Bonderman is 23 yrs old. His ERA when he was 20 was 5.55. 21 - 4.89. 22 - 4.57. Steadily heading down. Look at how Sheets was before he put it together. He put it together his 4 th year in the majors and he was drafted out of college. Bonderman was a HS pick. Bonderman should be in AAA or his rookie year. The guy is a huge talent waiting to break out.

Jpup
06-08-2006, 07:44 AM
I would love to have Bonderman as a Red, but there is no way I would trade Adam Dunn for him. Jr., yeah I would, but not Dunn.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 09:55 AM
When it doesn't matter? with this bullpen all runs matter.
I think that's why, if we make a deal, it has to be for bullpen hlep. Everyone's #5 starter stinks. So long as those 1-4 guys keep producing, ride with the rotation. Let Claussen or Mays or Germano or whoever throw every 5th day and hope the offense really cranks it up.

But for the love of God, please never let Rick White come in the game in a crucial situation again.

smith288
06-08-2006, 10:00 AM
I have made my living on this site throwing out trade proposals just to chew on. If they came true, I would be working for the Reds.

You throw out the trade proposal to see maybe the Reds would trade a player like Dunn to acquire a pitcher for the stretch run.
You get paid??? Where do I sign up?

Here is my interview trade proposal:

Trade Freel, LaRue and some cash to the Yankees for Wang...

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 10:02 AM
Trade Freel, LaRue and some cash to the Yankees for Wang...
Man, I WISH the Yanks would go for that.

Johnny Footstool
06-08-2006, 10:33 AM
Well I don't go by RC/27. The stat I go by, and I've been very adament about this stat's importance, is HBP. If you need help with the formula let me know.

I go by height, so Dunn is the best.


Trade Freel, LaRue and some cash to the Yankees for Wang...

Do the Reds need Wang that badly? Seems like they'd be overpaying, and no one should have to overpay for Wang.

Krusty
06-08-2006, 10:38 AM
All I am saying that if the Reds want to bolster their starting rotation and/or the bullpen, trading Adam Dunn would net the Reds the most in return to shore up these areas. You have three ways to go here.....you can build this team around Adam Dunn or you trade Adam Dunn for young players that will be a factor for the next five years. Third way is a three-way which the young players you acquire go to a third team for that starting pitcher/or bullpen help you need for the stretch run.

It comes down to Krivsky and his front office people and what they think Adam Dunn will project down the road or pretty much has he hit his ceiling?

Krusty
06-08-2006, 10:38 AM
Man, I WISH the Yanks would go for that.

As much as the Yankees need an outfielder, they actually can't spare a starting pitcher in a trade right now.

flyer85
06-08-2006, 10:51 AM
Guys like Junior ... are A-level talent.you have to stay healthy to be an A-level talent. There is a reason no one wants to take Jrs contract.

MartyFan
06-08-2006, 10:51 AM
As much as I hate to say it MWM, now that it doesn't seem that budget is as big a deal for the Reds I don't want them to trade Milton. I know he's not great but they really don't have anyone better.

As for the deal posed? Krusty I don't like it and I don't think the Tigers will trade a SP during the season anyway.

My dreams these days revolve arond a 15 game Giant losing streak and a trade for Jason Schmidt and Kearns is the one I'm trading to get that done.


In that situation and I can't believe I am saying this...I know Dunn has more power and he is trying to relearn to hit to all fields but I would keep Kearns and trade Dunn...Kearns is better in the field, on the bases and can still deliver 20+ HR's.

Krusty
06-08-2006, 11:10 AM
If Krivsky called the A's and offered Dunn for RHP Rich Harden, you think Beane would bite?

Here is another thought.....RHP Livan Hernandez of Washington. You know Bowden would ask for the moon though.

One more thought......Dunn to the Royals for RHP Zack Grienke and a reliever. Grienke had too much promise and I don't believe one bad season has done this kid in.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 11:11 AM
As much as the Yankees need an outfielder, they actually can't spare a starting pitcher in a trade right now.
I know. That's why it will most likely remain a wish.

Krusty
06-08-2006, 11:21 AM
Another trade possiblity could be RHP Tony Armas of Washington.

Think Bowden would be interested in a package of OF Chris Denorfia and LHP Phil Dumatrait for Armas?

Puffy
06-08-2006, 11:27 AM
If Krivsky called the A's and offered Dunn for RHP Rich Harden, you think Beane would bite?

Here is another thought.....RHP Livan Hernandez of Washington. You know Bowden would ask for the moon though.

One more thought......Dunn to the Royals for RHP Zack Grienke and a reliever. Grienke had too much promise and I don't believe one bad season has done this kid in.

No, Beane would not bite.

Hernandez is a great target for the Reds as long as the price is B level prospects, ie, anyone the Reds have outside of Bailey and Bruce.

Unless that reliever is Mo Rivera than that is a horrible, horrible, horrible, horrible trade for the Reds.

flyer85
06-08-2006, 11:35 AM
I don't think the Reds are going to do anything to change the composition of the position players at this point. The only trade I could see of someone of the ML roster is trading a catcher for some relief pitching, although looking around I am not sure there is a decent trading partner for that.

Brian
06-08-2006, 12:24 PM
I agree that I don't see the Reds changing the core composition of this team, even for a front end pitcher, assuming one with a contract beyond this year is available. You just don't trade a Dunn caliber player for a rent-a-pitcher, even if it's a good one. Now, who's on that list of core players might vary based on who you ask, but I think Dunn is someone The Kriv wants to have around for a while. Even if he never bats higher than .260, the constant threat of the HR is enough to get the guys in front of him better pitches. I'm sure Griffey could attest to that. Besides, Dunn is relatively affordable for a few years, the time to move him is probably next year or the optional 3rd year when the cost of resigning him might not be worth the players they could obtain in a trade.

Otherwise I think I'm like everyone else here, if you could find a spot elswhere for Fifi LaRue, I'd be thrilled. That's 4 mil a year not well spent.

pedro
06-08-2006, 01:10 PM
In that situation and I can't believe I am saying this...I know Dunn has more power and he is trying to relearn to hit to all fields but I would keep Kearns and trade Dunn...Kearns is better in the field, on the bases and can still deliver 20+ HR's.

To me, the deciding factor is the injury history. Dunn has managed to stay healthy for 4+ years. Kearns hasn't.

flyer85
06-08-2006, 01:16 PM
To me, the deciding factor is the injury history. Dunn has managed to stay healthy for 4+ years. Kearns hasn't.like I said there is no such thing is an A-talent if they can't stay on the field. Betting on a healthy Jr and Kearns is high risk at this point.

This lineup wouldn't be very imposing if Dunn is traded and Jr is out with an injury (which is still highly likely to happen).

bounty37h
06-08-2006, 01:24 PM
I don't think Dunn is A-level offensive talent. Guys like Junior and Pujols are A-level talent.

Would you trade Dunn in a three-way deal with the Marlins in order to get LHP Dontrelle Willis? If you swing Dunn to Detroit for prospects that the Marlins would agree to, would you be happy with Willis?

Yes, I would def entertain options that would bring Willis to Cincy, not saying I am giving up on Dunn, but would love to have Willis.

RedLegSuperStar
06-08-2006, 01:48 PM
I'd still hang on to Dunn. Florida is cutting payroll.. adding either Bonderman or Dunn would increase it. Dunn makes 7.5 Mil and Bonderman makes 2.3 mil which will continue to rise. Dontrell is losing value each time he pitches, most likly because he doesn't have the same offense he had last year. I'd rather trade someone like Votto, Dumitrait, Hammonds, and Freel.. possibly Germano or Chick aswell to get Willis. Then I would lock up Willis to a 5 year contract worth 35-40 Mil. Then during the offseason make a run at either Jason Schmitt or Barry Zito. I'd feel pretty good with a rotation of:

Zito
Willis
Arroyo
Harang
Milton

Krusty
06-08-2006, 02:21 PM
I don't see Zito going anywhere while the A's are in contention. They will let him go as a free agent just like Tejeda and Giambi.

Would the Fishes deal Willis? IMO, it would have to be a slobber-knocker of a deal. They don't have to trade him at the July trading deadline and might be better off during the offseason.

As for the Reds, RHP Tony Armas might make an interesting pitching acquisition. The first time in a long time that he looks healthy and pitching effectively.

Redhook
06-08-2006, 02:44 PM
I'd still hang on to Dunn. Florida is cutting payroll.. adding either Bonderman or Dunn would increase it. Dunn makes 7.5 Mil and Bonderman makes 2.3 mil which will continue to rise. Dontrell is losing value each time he pitches, most likly because he doesn't have the same offense he had last year. I'd rather trade someone like Votto, Dumitrait, Hammonds, and Freel.. possibly Germano or Chick aswell to get Willis. Then I would lock up Willis to a 5 year contract worth 35-40 Mil. Then during the offseason make a run at either Jason Schmitt or Barry Zito. I'd feel pretty good with a rotation of:

Zito
Willis
Arroyo
Harang
Milton

Who wouldn't feel good with that rotation? Unfortunately, we're the Cincinnati Reds, not the Cincinnati Yankees. Zito and Willis are going to cost $12 million or so a year. Milton is $9.8 this year and probably similar next year. Harang is going to get a huge raise after this year....$6/year??? I'm not sure. Arroyo is still relatively cheap. But I can't imagine our starters making $40+ million. It'd be nice, but wishful thinking for sure. I'd be really happy to land Zito, Schmidt or Willis. Preferbly Willis because of his age.

bounty37h
06-08-2006, 03:07 PM
You get paid??? Where do I sign up?

Here is my interview trade proposal:

Trade Freel, LaRue and some cash to the Yankees for Wang...


I personally agree strongly about trading LaRue, throw him in a package deal or whatever, he is overpaid and not the best catcher on this team. Freel however, IMO, is pretty untouchable, I beleive a strong utility guy is essential to a winning team, and he is the best one in the game right now.

dabvu2498
06-08-2006, 03:13 PM
Didn't Willis just sign a new deal before this season?

westofyou
06-08-2006, 03:19 PM
The A's should have flipped Reggie Jackson for Bill Singer.

pedro
06-08-2006, 03:25 PM
But the Reds need Bill Singer right now.

Puffy
06-08-2006, 03:44 PM
The A's should have flipped Reggie Jackson for Bill Singer.

Yup, Singer had a great voice.

Benihana
06-08-2006, 03:50 PM
Kearns for Bonderman I would do in a heartbeat. For Dunn, I would ask for Verlander.

Benihana
06-08-2006, 03:53 PM
I'd still hang on to Dunn. Florida is cutting payroll.. adding either Bonderman or Dunn would increase it. Dunn makes 7.5 Mil and Bonderman makes 2.3 mil which will continue to rise. Dontrell is losing value each time he pitches, most likly because he doesn't have the same offense he had last year. I'd rather trade someone like Votto, Dumitrait, Hammonds, and Freel.. possibly Germano or Chick aswell to get Willis. Then I would lock up Willis to a 5 year contract worth 35-40 Mil. Then during the offseason make a run at either Jason Schmitt or Barry Zito. I'd feel pretty good with a rotation of:

Zito
Willis
Arroyo
Harang
Milton

Plus I dont think trading a bunch of marginal prospects could net Willis. Would we trade Bronson Arroyo for a handful of C+ prospects? Please be realistic. Just because you include eight guys doesn't mean there is any quality there. Acquiring Willis would probably take at least Encarnacion + Bailey, a price too steep for me.

Highlifeman21
06-08-2006, 05:09 PM
Kearns for Bonderman I would do in a heartbeat. For Dunn, I would ask for Verlander.


Unless Detroit is sending us all of their fireballers for Dunn, I wouldn't even talk to the Motor City.

Unless Detroit is sending Zumaya, Verlander and probably something else for Kearns, I hang up the phone again.

Unfortunately we don't have the depth of OF anymore to move Dunn or Kearns (nor should we for that matter if we had the depth). KGJ is a 10-5 with trade veto power, so that means Denorfia is currently our best "readily expendible" OF.

Denorfia won't land us another #2 starter.

McCracken has more value to our organization than the value he'd return via trade.

Our most tradeable piece of the Reds puzzle right now continues to be Felipe Lopez Jr. With Scott "I got A Rod a quarter of a Billion" Boras for an agent, I cringe to think we'll be able to keep him locked up long term. Trade him while he still has a contract with the Reds.

Benihana
06-08-2006, 05:13 PM
Unless Detroit is sending us all of their fireballers for Dunn, I wouldn't even talk to the Motor City.

Unless Detroit is sending Zumaya, Verlander and probably something else for Kearns, I hang up the phone again.

Unfortunately we don't have the depth of OF anymore to move Dunn or Kearns (nor should we for that matter if we had the depth). KGJ is a 10-5 with trade veto power, so that means Denorfia is currently our best "readily expendible" OF.

Denorfia won't land us another #2 starter.

McCracken has more value to our organization than the value he'd return via trade.

Our most tradeable piece of the Reds puzzle right now continues to be Felipe Lopez Jr. With Scott "I got A Rod a quarter of a Billion" Boras for an agent, I cringe to think we'll be able to keep him locked up long term. Trade him while he still has a contract with the Reds.


Youre telling me you wouldn't trade Austin Kearns for Justin Verlander? I don't even know what to say. Verlander is in a category with Liriano, Hamels and Hernandez for the top 4 pitchers of the next generation, not to mention have already had success at the ML level. If you don't pull the trigger on that deal, you've got some serious explaining to do.

Highlifeman21
06-08-2006, 05:26 PM
Youre telling me you wouldn't trade Austin Kearns for Justin Verlander? I don't even know what to say. Verlander is in a category with Liriano, Hamels and Hernandez for the top 4 pitchers of the next generation, not to mention have already had success at the ML level. If you don't pull the trigger on that deal, you've got some serious explaining to do.

Not what I said at all. I said Verlander, Zumaya and something else for Kearns. Kearns for Verlander straight up doesn't excite me at all. Detroit needs OF and we need pitching, so it makes sense for our teams to get together, but I think you're undervaluing Kearns.

If I had to rank Verlander on potential with the other young guys you list, I go Liriano, Verlander, Hernandez, Hamels. Liriano's the only one that's had any immediate success at the ML level. Verlander's shown promise, which puts him above Hernandez (who finally looked good against Liriano the other night), and Hamels has a pitch count issue which put him on the DL.

To repeat, I'd pull the trigger on Verlander, Zumaya and another player for Kearns.

Krusty
06-09-2006, 11:15 AM
Not what I said at all. I said Verlander, Zumaya and something else for Kearns. Kearns for Verlander straight up doesn't excite me at all. Detroit needs OF and we need pitching, so it makes sense for our teams to get together, but I think you're undervaluing Kearns.

If I had to rank Verlander on potential with the other young guys you list, I go Liriano, Verlander, Hernandez, Hamels. Liriano's the only one that's had any immediate success at the ML level. Verlander's shown promise, which puts him above Hernandez (who finally looked good against Liriano the other night), and Hamels has a pitch count issue which put him on the DL.

To repeat, I'd pull the trigger on Verlander, Zumaya and another player for Kearns.

To bad Detroit wouldn't pull the trigger to that deal.

cincy09
06-09-2006, 11:42 AM
Kearns alone would not land a talent like Verlander

PTI (pti)
06-09-2006, 02:19 PM
I'm always up for a good trade debate, but this team is in first place. Everyone says the Reds need pitching - but the starters are doing VERY well so far. This isn't the time to change.


If there is someone (reasonable) to go after - it's John Lackey. After you stop laughing, do me a favor and look at his stats in 04/05/06 compared with Barry Zito. He's actually been as good if not BETTER - and makes < $4 million/year.

The Reds need to remember who they are when they do decide to make a move -> they're a small-market team with a tight budget and a weak farm system. Throwing everything they've got at one player - I don't care who it is - is very foolish, IMO. This team has a very explosive offense and need to continue shopping for quality #2 and #3s (Harang, Arroyo, etc). Lackey fits this mold to a "T."

Krusty
06-09-2006, 02:23 PM
I'm always up for a good trade debate, but this team is in first place. Everyone says the Reds need pitching - but the starters are doing VERY well so far. This isn't the time to change.


If there is someone (reasonable) to go after - it's John Lackey. After you stop laughing, do me a favor and look at his stats in 04/05/06 compared with Barry Zito. He's actually been as good if not BETTER - and makes < $4 million/year.

The Reds need to remember who they are when they do decide to make a move -> they're a small-market team with a tight budget and a weak farm system. Throwing everything they've got at one player - I don't care who it is - is very foolish, IMO. This team has a very explosive offense and need to continue shopping for quality #2 and #3s (Harang, Arroyo, etc). Lackey fits this mold to a "T."

Are you willing to trade Dunn for Lackey? Because if I'm the Angels, that is who I am asking.

Benihana
06-09-2006, 02:27 PM
Not what I said at all. I said Verlander, Zumaya and something else for Kearns. Kearns for Verlander straight up doesn't excite me at all. Detroit needs OF and we need pitching, so it makes sense for our teams to get together, but I think you're undervaluing Kearns.

If I had to rank Verlander on potential with the other young guys you list, I go Liriano, Verlander, Hernandez, Hamels. Liriano's the only one that's had any immediate success at the ML level. Verlander's shown promise, which puts him above Hernandez (who finally looked good against Liriano the other night), and Hamels has a pitch count issue which put him on the DL.

To repeat, I'd pull the trigger on Verlander, Zumaya and another player for Kearns.

and thus you don't trade Kearns for the second-best young ML ready pitcher in the game? Again, I'm glad youre not the GM. Kearns for Verlander STRAIGHT UP you wouldn't have to ask me twice. Anyone ELSE disagree?

Highlifeman21
06-09-2006, 06:32 PM
and thus you don't trade Kearns for the second-best young ML ready pitcher in the game? Again, I'm glad youre not the GM. Kearns for Verlander STRAIGHT UP you wouldn't have to ask me twice. Anyone ELSE disagree?


I don't do Kearns for Verlander straight up for the simple fact Verlander has pitched 89.1 IP in his entire career.

Sure, he's 7-4 with a 3.35 ERA this season, but he's 23, and will he continue to put up these kind of numbers? I would hope so if we're going to trade one of our future OF core.

Honestly, I also don't think that Verlander alone helps us, landing a bullpen arm like Zumaya strengthens our team, and makes the loss of Kearns easier to cope.

Again, to repeat myself for the 805943583405 time, I would trade Kearns for Verlander, but only if we were getting something else in return, preferably Zumaya.

Verlander won't be the single answer for the Reds