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corkedbat
06-08-2006, 12:33 AM
I want to start off by saying that I'm not one who believes that the Reds have to trade Junior and I would hesitate to mess with this team's chemistry.

But I would also like to see us acquire a top of the rotation starter, so I was thinking about a framework deal that could possibly land a pitcher without completely gutting the offense and I came up with two deals that compliment each other.

Deal One the Reds trade Ken Griffey Jr., Jason Larue, Rick White and Kent Merker (plus as much cash on JR's contract as it takes to get the deal done) to theYankees.

And receive...

Robinson Cano, Phillip Hughes and Kyle Farnsworth.

The Yankees get an OF/DH with plenty of power and star-power left, a solid catcher (is Posada still out?) and a pair of veteran relievers.

For the Reds, they get a top young second baseman, a talented (buy very young) starter and a power arm to add to the bullpen. They also avoid the worry of another injury to Junior and they save some cash to apply toward a stud starter.

Deal Two The Reds trade Felipe Lopez, Brandon Claussen and Ryan Wagner (plus another prospect of the Giants/As choice or even replace Claussen with Milton).

And receive...

Jason Schmidt from the Giants or Barry Zito from the A's.

The Giants/A's receive a top young SS that they still control for a couple of years, a young starter who still has some upside and a young reliever who is a former #1 pick and who could probably use a change of scenery. Both startera are probably worth more, but may walk at the end of the year, reducing their value somewhat.

The Giants may lose so much that getting a budding young player like Lopez may make them re-think their stated position of not trading Schmidt.

Schmidt/Zito joins the rotation of Arroyo, Harang, Milton and Ramierez. White and Mercker are replaced by Farnsworth and Dumatrait from AAA. Cano allows Phillips to move to SS and Deno/Freel replace KGJ in CF. Hughes goes to High A Sarasota and makes up for not geting a stud college starter at the top of this week's draft. Phillips and Cano make the defense better and the money that it would have taken to tie-up Lopez can be applied to signing Dunn, Kearns or more pitching instead.

I don't do any of it though unless I think a full-out effort will allow me to sign Schmidt or Zito to an LTC.

I'm no expert and this may not even be feasible. I was just bored and wanted to throw this out for discussion. Feel free to make your own suggestions on how a similar deal might work i(if you think it could).

Krusty
06-08-2006, 12:39 AM
I don't see Griffey going anywhere especially what is still owed on his contract and injury history.

As for the second deal, the Reds are giving up alot for either Zito or Schimdt, who will be free agents at the end of the season.

reds44
06-08-2006, 12:56 AM
Trade one:
No, as long as we are in it, Griffey stays.

Trade two:
I wouldn't trade Lopez for Scmidt straight up, and Zito is a f.a. so no.

pedro
06-08-2006, 12:59 AM
Schmidt is the right target but that's a lot to give up for a 3 month rental. I'd offer Kearns straight up though. (not for Zito)

Krusty
06-08-2006, 01:02 AM
Schmidt is the right target but that's a lot to give up for a 3 month rental. I'd offer Kearns straight up though. (not for Zito)

You don't think giving up Kearns for a three month rental is alot?

KronoRed
06-08-2006, 01:18 AM
Sure it is, but the thing with Kearns is, will he stay healthy?

I'd do Kearns for Zito and call up Denorfia

pedro
06-08-2006, 01:19 AM
You don't think giving up Kearns for a three month rental is alot?


Yeah I do, but it's one player, not three. Plus Lopez is harder to replace than Kearns.

Shaggy Sanchez
06-08-2006, 02:24 AM
Sure it is, but the thing with Kearns is, will he stay healthy?

I'd do Kearns for Zito and call up Denorfia

I think that Kearns will stay healthy, if you look at his injuries they weren't realy anything he could control. He has been sat on, hit by pitches, and had problems with injuries not healing correctly. I know we need better pitching to keep this up all year but I think we have a pretty good thing in the OF right now and what if Denorfia doesn't cut it in the majors. I know everyone goes nuts about him and he has done great in the minors but it isn't like he is 22 or 23 and tearing up AAA, he is 26 and we have seen another guy that had all the hype and tore up AAA his name was Larson. I know he would add better defense but I think that Kearns is a pretty solid all around player and now that he is healthy he is showing what he is capable of. I would hate to move him for Zito who will be gone at the end of the season only to see Kearns continue to be what we have all hoped he would before he was sat on. If you were getting a solid pitcher who was locked up for 3-4 years it might be a different story but for a 3 month rental I would rather take my chances with Kearns.

dman
06-08-2006, 04:14 AM
Farnsworth doesn't work out as long as Paul Wilson is still with the Reds:devil:

RAS
06-08-2006, 04:23 AM
This team's pitching is close to being solid enough to get us to the playoffs without giving up our young talented position players. Homer Bailey and others will arrive within 2 yrs and we'll need lopez, EE. Phillips, etc to carry us. Let's not mortgage our future to try to win once right now. I agree that I too would not give up Lopez straight up for Zito or Schmidt with both entering free agency

Outshined_One
06-08-2006, 04:31 AM
Hughes gets way more hype than he's worth, in my opinion. He's got the potential to be a good 2/3 guy somewhere down the road...but first he has to stay healthy for a whole season and, in the more immediate future, master AA. He's been getting knocked around down there in 34 IP this season.

smith288
06-08-2006, 09:01 AM
This is the type of trade that destroys the core of the team and the chemistry that has built since Spring training.

sdwagers
06-08-2006, 12:13 PM
Deal One the Reds trade Ken Griffey Jr., Jason Larue, Rick White and Kent Merker (plus as much cash on JR's contract as it takes to get the deal done) to theYankees.

And receive...

Robinson Cano, Phillip Hughes and Kyle Farnsworth.

uh... Griffey is here until will start to tank, which aint happening. LaRue and Mercker are tradable based on career numbers and Rick White won't fetch a bag of balls. We have a 2B named Philips and Farnsworth aint coming with Paul Wilson here after theire brawl.




Deal Two The Reds trade Felipe Lopez, Brandon Claussen and Ryan Wagner (plus another prospect of the Giants/As choice or even replace Claussen with Milton).

And receive...

Jason Schmidt from the Giants or Barry Zito from the A's.



Schimdt might be had at some point. I think Zito stays in Oaktown. Felipe aint going anywheres unless your first trade goes thru to moved Philips to short (I like him at 2B) and Claussen wont get you much unless a team needs a left reliever.

Neither deal gets done.

KoryMac5
06-08-2006, 12:47 PM
The Marlins traded RHP Brad Penny, 1B Hee Seop Choi and minor league LHP Billy Murphy to the Dodgers for catcher Paul LaDuca, RF Juan Encarnacion and RHP Guillermo Mota.

I remember this trade, the Dodgers had a really good team and seemed like contenders for a long playoff run and than they made this trade for what they thought was a top of the line starter. This trade pretty much threw a monkey wrench into their chemistry and kept them from being the ball club they were before. I don't advocate for wholesale changes with this team adding a piece seems to be the thing we need to do without giving up multiple pieces of our puzzle.

OldXOhio
06-08-2006, 12:51 PM
I'd do Kearns for Zito

And Billy Beane would hang up on you without a thought of a response.

RedLegSuperStar
06-08-2006, 01:03 PM
And Billy Beane would hang up on you without a thought of a response.

You might have to add someone with Kearns but I don't think he'd hang the phone up. Beane has liked Kearns.. even back when we dealt Jose Guillen to the A's. Either Beane deals Zito at the deadline or he hangs on to him for the pennent race and if Zito were to leave at seasons end Beane would get Draft Picks. Beane is a smart man either way.

StRedlegs900
06-08-2006, 01:05 PM
I was thinking of a possible trade idea, but I don't know how much some people would like it. If we had any chance of re-signing him, I wouldn't mind swapping Adam Dunn for Carlos Lee. I read that they might think of trading him, and he seems to hit just as many HR's as Dunn, but hit with a better average. The defense is pretty similar as well, so it's not like you're losing there. I just don't know if we'd be able to re-sign him after the season though. Anyhow, it was just an idea.

pedro
06-08-2006, 01:09 PM
I was thinking of a possible trade idea, but I don't know how much some people would like it. If we had any chance of re-signing him, I wouldn't mind swapping Adam Dunn for Carlos Lee. I read that they might think of trading him, and he seems to hit just as many HR's as Dunn, but hit with a better average. The defense is pretty similar as well, so it's not like you're losing there. I just don't know if we'd be able to re-sign him after the season though. Anyhow, it was just an idea.


I'll pass. Carlos Lee doesn't get on base enough. He is a good player (I have him on my fanstasy team) but doesn't have quite the power that Dunn has. They are pretty equally bad in the OF.

Plus he's having a career year and is two years older than Dunn and makes more money.

StRedlegs900
06-08-2006, 01:34 PM
I'll pass. Carlos Lee doesn't get on base enough. He is a good player (I have him on my fanstasy team) but doesn't have quite the power that Dunn has. They are pretty equally bad in the OF.

Plus he's having a career year and is two years older than Dunn and makes more money.

I agree with you on pretty much all of that. He doesn't get on base as much, but would he be a better option in the 4 slot than Dunn? Yes, he is probably not as powerful as Dunn, but Dunn's power only comes into effect when he makes contact. Lee I think makes better contact than Dunn, which leads to his better batting average. Granted, he is 2 years older like you said. It was just something to discuss, but I wouldn't be too upset if it happened.

Highlifeman21
06-08-2006, 04:17 PM
Trade one:
No, as long as we are in it, Griffey stays.

Trade two:
I wouldn't trade Lopez for Scmidt straight up, and Zito is a f.a. so no.

And the Giants would laugh at you for this.

Schmidt is worth way more than just Lopez.

The premise of the original 2 trade idea is interesting, but Robinson Cano isn't anything to write home to mom about, Hughes and Homer Bailey will have a race to see who can be the bigger bust, and Farnsworth has looked VERY shaky when having to fill in for M. Rivera this season, plus IIRC Farnsworth makes almost 6 mil a year.

As for trade 2, I think we could hang onto Claussen, and package another starter with Wagner and Lopez, although I think if we gave Wagner another shot in the Bigs, he'd produce, but I could be completely wrong. I would prefer Schmidt over Zito, but that's just personal preference.

The 2 trade idea certainly is a great try though, but I just don't see us adding that much by trading with the Yankees, and trade 2 kinda hinges on trade 1.

bounty37h
06-08-2006, 04:29 PM
Farnsworth doesn't work out as long as Paul Wilson is still with the Reds:devil:


Bootny Lee Farnsworth?

KronoRed
06-08-2006, 04:30 PM
And Billy Beane would hang up on you without a thought of a response.
That would just be mean :(

I'd add Aurilia in if it got a deal done ;)