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vaticanplum
06-08-2006, 06:42 PM
If this is true, I will be so, so sad. Obviously an unsubstantiated rumor at this point, but some names were drawn from the Jason Grimsley report, and one of them was Chris Mihlfeld, Pujols's personal trainer since before he was even drafted.

Yes, you should get all your sports information from deadspin.com like me.

http://www.deadspin.com/sports/baseball/so-weve-got-some-affidavit-names-179400.php

edit: I meant to put this in Reds Live. Could somebody please move it?

membengal
06-08-2006, 06:44 PM
Yeah, I just put that in the Grimsley thread...

MWM
06-08-2006, 06:46 PM
Idle speculation. I knew as soon as the Grimsley story hit, Pujols would be thrown out there. I don't buy it.

vaticanplum
06-08-2006, 06:48 PM
Yeah, I just put that in the Grimsley thread...

Oy, sorry. Thread can be deleted mods.

membengal
06-08-2006, 06:52 PM
It probably deserves it's own discussion, I suppose, but as names leak out, there are going to be plenty of seperate discussions.

Technically, not Pujols' name in the Grimsley affidavit, but supposedly that of his trainer. Of couse, given the Bonds/trainer link, people will make their own conclusions again...

Reds4Life
06-08-2006, 06:53 PM
Oy, sorry. Thread can be deleted mods.

Man, requests to move this thread, then delete it. Somebody is being bossy today. :p:

I think the topic can handle it's own discussion, otherwise it might get lost in the other Grimsley stuff.

OnBaseMachine
06-08-2006, 06:53 PM
It wouldn't surprise me at all. I've always thought Pujols did one of two things: some type of steroid or lied about his age. The reason being because I have never, ever seen a 21-year old with such a physcially mature body as Pujols. Look at Dunn and Kearns when they first came up - they were skinnier, but naturally their body filled out. I just don't see that in Pujols. He has the same body as he did when he came in the league.

I hope they bust Albert. I never have liked the guy.

vaticanplum
06-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Man, requests to move this thread, then delete it. Somebody is being bossy today. :p:

I think the topic can handle it's own discussion, otherwise it might get lost in the other Grimsley stuff.

:lol:

Tomorrow I'll start a new one and ask you to merge them.

membengal
06-08-2006, 06:55 PM
From the discussion underway at sportsfrog's board, one of the people there googled Mihlfeld's name (Pujols trainer/friend) and found a blog entry from Mihlfeld's sister describing just how close her brother and Pujols are...she called them "soul brothers"...

http://sportsfrog.com/swamp/viewtopic.php?t=16406&start=45

RBA
06-08-2006, 07:00 PM
I did some specualing when Pujols went on the DL that it was a covert MLB discipline operation. Whatever that means.

Cardinals have a long history of steriods abuse. And Tony Larussa also has managed a lot of players who have dabbled in same.

OnBaseMachine
06-08-2006, 07:07 PM
I thought it was funny a few weeks back when Pujols defended Bonds and said he did nothing wrong. Now maybe Barry can defend Albert?

OnBaseMachine
06-08-2006, 07:11 PM
I did some specualing when Pujols went on the DL that it was a covert MLB discipline operation. Whatever that means.


I don't know about that, but I started speculating when Albert came out and said that he was twice cut by major league teams at a tryout in the Dominican Republic. He also admitted that he was a chubby kid at the time, now look at him. Nothing but rock solid muscle. Either this guy is a young Arnold Schwarzenegger or he did the Bonds "workout" treatment.:devil:

membengal
06-08-2006, 07:20 PM
This as ginned up on an internet search on Mihlfeld's name as done by one of the posters at sportsfrog:

We wanted to personally invite you to the grand opening of Millhouse AEP and baseball for Dec 30th 05 At 5 to 7 pm. Albert Pujols will be signing free autograph for those who sign up for any type of instruction. I will attach a flyer and general information about our background and location please take the time to read and let us know if you can attend. We also have more important dates to announce Mike Sweeney from the K.C. Royals will be there on Jan 14th 06 to do a camp with Chris Mihlfeld. Also Albert Pujols will be back in early Feb for a hitting clinic, and Jason Grimsley will be there at the end of January for pitching clinics. We will keep you informed on upcoming events. Thanks again for your time and please pass this along to anyone who might be interested.

Millhouse AEP and Baseball
6607 Royal St Suite B
Pleasant Valley Mo 64068
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
chris mihlfeld

Buckeye33
06-08-2006, 07:20 PM
The reason being because I have never, ever seen a 21-year old with such a physcially mature body as Pujols. Look at Dunn and Kearns when they first came up - they were skinnier, but naturally their body filled out. I just don't see that in Pujols. He has the same body as he did when he came in the league.

LeBron James takes the cake for the most physically developed human being for their age ever. Pujols is a solid 2nd though.

spaethc
06-08-2006, 07:24 PM
I don't think that Pujols did roids or hgh but at the same time I wouldnt be shocked if it turned out he did. I would love to see Grande have to try to defend "Sir" Albert.

PickOff
06-08-2006, 07:30 PM
A lot of people develop early, it doesn't mean HGH or steroids are involved. It would be a shame is Pujols is doping, and my feeling is that he has not. You've got to wonder about his statement saying they haven't proven anything in regards to Bonds and the lack of a testing procedure for HGH, however.

saboforthird
06-08-2006, 07:38 PM
My brother is a genetic freak. Nothing but pure muscle. He did lift weights in high school and played high school football, but that was 4-5 years ago. I can see why he can't get a girlfriend. He scares them. :D

jmcclain19
06-08-2006, 09:09 PM
I posted it elsewhere, but here is the deadspin article


Everyone’s guessing about who the blacked-out names in the Jason Grimsley report are, and it has been a fun parlor game so far. But we all knew eventually the names would get out. And we’ve been digging around … and some sources have given us some names.
How reliable are these names? We feel pretty confident in them, but we can’t go 100 percent, since the information is secondhand. We’ll say this: If Bud Selig issuing a press release naming the names is a 10, and picking a player at random out of the Baseball Encyclopedia is a 1, we’re at an 8.
So. Let’s do it then. Remember: Betting lines are for entertainment purposes only.
First: The person who told Grimsley about the positive test in 2003. That’s former Royals general manager Allard Baird.
As many people have guessed, one of the “former players” who were sold out by Grimsley: Sammy Sosa. Our source(s) couldn’t confirm if the other was Rafael Palmeiro.
Nothing new or exciting about that name. Then it starts to get interesting. We’ve heard amphetamine rumors of Miguel Tejada, but we can’t confirm that. What we can confirm? The doozy.
Grimsley says that a former employee of [redacted] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players once referred him to an amphetamine source.. Later, this source provided him with “amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone.” This trainer? His name is Chris Mihlfeld, a Kansas City-based “strength and conditioning guru.” (And former Strength And Conditioning Coordinator for the Royals.)
Does Mihlfeld’s name sound familiar? If it doesn’t, he — and we assure you, this gives us no pleasure to write this — has been Albert Pujols’ personal trainer since before Pujols was drafted by the Cardinals in the 13th round of the 1999 draft. We have no confirmation that Pujols’ name is in the affidavit … but Mihlfeld’s is. If you read the document, it doesn’t say the trainer/Mihlfeld supplied all the HGH and what-not; it just says the trainer was the referrer.
Yeah. Sigh. We just report what we’re told, folks. Ever hope your source is wrong? This is one of those times

Edskin
06-08-2006, 09:20 PM
I have NO clue if Pujols is a juicer or not, but I've never understood why he gets this free pass from speculation? Every media-type and even fan pretty much states that he is "clearly not a cheater." I just don't know how you can be so sure?

Redsfaithful
06-08-2006, 09:25 PM
I have NO clue if Pujols is a juicer or not, but I've never understood why he gets this free pass from speculation? Every media-type and even fan pretty much states that he is "clearly not a cheater." I just don't know how you can be so sure?

Because he's nice to the media, and fans like him.

cincinnati chili
06-08-2006, 09:27 PM
Because not everyone with muscles took steroids or HGH. I give you Olympic powerlifters.

edabbs44
06-08-2006, 10:03 PM
It wouldn't surprise me at all. I've always thought Pujols did one of two things: some type of steroid or lied about his age. The reason being because I have never, ever seen a 21-year old with such a physcially mature body as Pujols. Look at Dunn and Kearns when they first came up - they were skinnier, but naturally their body filled out. I just don't see that in Pujols. He has the same body as he did when he came in the league.

I hope they bust Albert. I never have liked the guy.
Not to mention his prematurely receding hairline.

Disclaimer: Apologies if I offended any balding members of RedsZone.

deltachi8
06-08-2006, 10:27 PM
Not to mention his prematurely receding hairline.

Disclaimer: Apologies if I offended any balding members of RedsZone.

bastard!

:D

dman
06-09-2006, 12:12 AM
I hate to sound this way, but from now on I'm going to assume all MLB players are dopers and when I find that they're not, I guess I'll just be pleasantly surprised.

Cedric
06-09-2006, 12:57 AM
I hate to sound this way, but from now on I'm going to assume all MLB players are dopers and when I find that they're not, I guess I'll just be pleasantly surprised.

Latin players deserve two or three looks at this point.

KYRedsFan
06-09-2006, 01:05 AM
Because St. Louis is a great baseball town. Their fans all wear red. Their fans cheer when their team does well, their fans boo the other team. Blah blah blah. It sucks, but this era will tarnish near all who rise above the norm.

letsgojunior
06-09-2006, 01:05 AM
Because he's nice to the media, and fans like him.

exactly - he falls into the arbitrary category of people the media feels deserve protection from this sort of scandal, regardless of the veracity of the stories/evidence.

It's exactly like Mark McGwire - you hardly hear his name mentioned with the frequency of Barry Bonds's in terms of being a blight on baseball, and people defended McGwire for years on end before his completely embarrasing testimony before Congress.

I can guarantee you there's hundreds of similar threads being started on other message boards about how Pujols lifts regularly, what a low-life Jason Grimsley is, and how much honesty and integrity Pujols has.

The bottom line is that we don't know what these guys are like. We get a tiny glimpse based on their interaction with the media and fans. So who really knows at this point what he did or did not do. I think it's pointless to speculate at this point.

But I also think it's pointless to put people on a pedestal simply because, on the surface, they seem "nice."

Cedric
06-09-2006, 01:07 AM
exactly - he falls into the arbitrary category of people the media feels deserve protection from this sort of scandal, regardless of the veracity of the stories/evidence.

It's exactly like Mark McGwire - you hardly hear his name mentioned with the frequency of Barry Bonds's in terms of being a blight on baseball, and people defended McGwire for years on end before his completely embarrasing testimony before Congress.

I can guarantee you there's hundreds of similar threads being started on other message boards about how Pujols lifts regularly, what a low-life Jason Grimsley is, and how much honesty and integrity Pujols has.

The bottom line is that we don't know what these guys are like. We get a tiny glimpse based on their interaction with the media and fans. So who really knows at this point what he did or did not do. I think it's pointless to speculate at this point.

But I also think it's pointless to put people on a pedestal simply because, on the surface, they seem "nice."

Like Palmeiro? That guy is HATED by fans now. Trust me, if true Pujols career is over. That's a big if though.

letsgojunior
06-09-2006, 01:11 AM
Like Palmeiro? That guy is HATED by fans now. Trust me, if true Pujols career is over. That's a big if though.

yeah, because he looked like an idiot because he blatantly lied about whether he used steroids before Congress.

I think beforehand the media and fans were very lukewarm about Palmeiro - he was a guy who flew under the radar completely, and honestly people didn't really care about him (at least I didn't).

I'm talking about guys the media go out of their way to prop - do you think if Derek Jeter was caught up in this scandal his career would be over?

I think we'd get all kinds of columns about how he made a bad decision, and how sorry he was, and how he deserves forgiveness.

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 02:07 AM
Well I hate to bring it up, but I don't assume there aren't ANY current Reds not involved in the drugs Grimsley talks about.

reds44
06-09-2006, 02:11 AM
Well I hate to bring it up, but I don't assume there aren't ANY current Reds not involved in the drugs Grimsley talks about.
Depends.

Aren't as these guys he has thrown out there former teammates? If there are then yes it is a possibility.

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 02:21 AM
Depends.

Aren't as these guys he has thrown out there former teammates? If there are then yes it is a possibility.
I wasn't talking about the players Grimsley was talking about necessarily. I was talking about the drugs he talked about.

reds44
06-09-2006, 02:22 AM
Doesn't surprise me at all. There really aren't many names that you can throw out there that will surprise me. Why people always assumed Pujols was innocent is beyond me. I always thought he was either lying about his age, or was taking something. When he came up and he was that young and chiziled something was up. I hope everyone that has taken his crap comes out.

This story seems similar to the Anderson/Bonds one. When somebody is your personal trainer and they are dealing with this stuff, you are going to do it. If you knew they were giving HGH, steriods, etc. to their other clients and you weren't they wouldn't be your personal trainer very long.

reds44
06-09-2006, 02:23 AM
I wasn't talking about the players Grimsley was talking about necessarily. I was talking about the drugs he talked about.
Oh of course. There are so many people doing this that I doubt a team of 25 players could have 0 people doing it. All I hope is that it is guys like Hatteberg, RA, or relievers not named Coffey, and not guys like Felipe, EE, Dunn, Kearns, Griffey, Arroyo, Coffey, etc. However I know that probably isn't very realistic either.

Caveat Emperor
06-09-2006, 02:49 AM
Well I hate to bring it up, but I don't assume there aren't ANY current Reds not involved in the drugs Grimsley talks about.

Joe Bick is Grimsley's agent -- based in Cincinnati (inset conspiracy music here).

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 03:09 AM
I'm interested in who else is a Mihlfeld disciple

savafan
06-09-2006, 03:15 AM
Look who Grimsley's doctor is.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/pa/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050720&content_id=1138110&vkey=mlbpa_news&fext=.jsp

That new outlook had a positive effect on the rehabilitation process. It relaxed me. It made me realize that anything that happens from here on in my baseball career is a bonus. I knew I'd been given another chance. So I told my doctor, Timothy Kremchek, and my trainer, Chris Mihlfeld, that my arm felt good and I wanted to step on the gas. I told them, "I want to push it and see if my arm will break. I'm not afraid because I don't have anything to lose."

There wasn't a whole lot of babying in the rehab process. When Dr. Kremchek told me that my arm wasn't going to break, we all decided to throw protocol out the window and write our own book. As I said, I didn't have anything to lose. I'd been written off for the year and I realized I'm nearing the end of my career. So I decided to give it a chance and see what happens.

reds44
06-09-2006, 03:18 AM
Oh no.

:bang:

That isn't good, at all.

I hope to God Griffey didn't try to "write his own book" if you know what I mean. You know they are gonna come after Doc Hollywood and if anyone on the Reds is on them, it will come out.

KronoRed
06-09-2006, 03:18 AM
That's kinda funny in a car crash sort of way

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 03:23 AM
Timothy Kremchek, Joe Bick ... shouldn't someone have the Dragnet theme music playing?

savafan
06-09-2006, 03:28 AM
I'm interested in who else is a Mihlfeld disciple

I've come up with one other name.

http://fantasy.sportingnews.com/baseball/articles/20050223/602824-p.html

Mike Sweeney reported to spring training Wednesday, optimistic that the back and neck injuries that caused him to miss 146 games over the last three seasons won't be a problem this year.

The Royals' first baseman arrived two days before Kansas City's first full-squad workout.

"I feel great," said Sweeney, who sat out the last 42 games of the 2004 season because of a herniated disc in his neck. "I feel 100 percent. This is the first time that I've felt that way in a long while."

Sweeney hired former Royals' strength and conditioning coach Chris Mihlfeld as his personal trainer for the offseason. Sweeney said his training has included new exercises to help strengthen his back.

dman
06-09-2006, 07:36 AM
It' so widepread throughout MLB, you can almost certainly expect to see a Red or two on the list when it comes out. I really hope not, but I have a gut feeling. This one here is going to be so far reaching that there will not be a single team not affected by it.

Bobcat J
06-09-2006, 09:01 AM
Either this guy is a young Arnold Schwarzenegger or he did the Bonds "workout" treatment.:devil:

I'm not so sure that the Bonds "workout" treatment was so different from the Schwarzenegger workout treatment. He was chemically enhanced too.

savafan
06-09-2006, 09:42 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/06/08/extra.mustard/


I spoke with his surgeon, Tim Kremchek, this morning. Dr. Kremchek hadn't heard the news and was dumbfounded. "I don't prescribe [HGH], I don't recommend it, and I would never have one of my patients use it," he told me.

vaticanplum
06-09-2006, 11:24 AM
I know that Pujols is a nice guy and I believe he is good for the sport, and yes that is one reason I don't want to see him be guilty of this. However, his personality would not blind me to things if he did end up being guilty. I thought Mark McGwire was a nice guy too, and I didn't lose too much sleep as I lost my respect for him. If anything, the fall of a nice guy is harder.

So the arguments of "people want to protect him because he's a nice guy" don't hold much water with me personally. Heck, I can't stand Barry Bonds, but I didn't want him to be guilty of steroid use either, just because it's bad for my game. But once it became clear that he's guilty, I say string him up. I feel the same way about Pujols. I don't want these allegations to be true so I will hold out for solid evidence, the same way I did for everybody else. If solid evidence comes up, he doesn't get a free pass just because he's a nice guy.

gm
06-09-2006, 11:33 AM
guys like Felipe, EE, Dunn, Kearns, Griffey, Arroyo, Coffey,

If Bronson was using the only bodily change affected is hair growth

westofyou
06-09-2006, 11:47 AM
If Bronson was using the only bodily change affected is hair growthYeah what is he 6'5 and 190... I'll let him pass.

NJReds
06-09-2006, 02:19 PM
Mihlfeld's response...

Link (http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=cnnsi-rumorhasit&prov=cnnsi&type=lgns)


Rumor has it
John Donovan, SI.com

Whew, the rumors are running wild out there. Speculation has a major green light right now. Hearsay's just run straight through a stop sign.

Baseball's latest steroids scandal is now in full-blown, screaming 72-point type. Pitcher Jason Grimsley, caught with a box full of human growth hormone, rolled over for federal investigators in a two-hour interrogation on April 19, and the new game in and around baseball is trying to figure out all the names that he named.

So, in an effort to further this story that won't go away, here's a name for you: Chris Mihlfeld.

"I figured my name would get thrown out there somewhere," Mihlfeld told me from his Kansas City-area gym on Thursday.

Maybe you've never heard of Mihlfeld. He's not a player. He doesn't work for Major League Baseball or any of its teams, not any more. But Mihlfeld is a player in the game, a personal trainer to the biggest star in the game: Cardinals first baseman Albert Pujols.

Mihlfeld might well be one of the names that has been blacked out in the public version of the affidavit detailing Grimsley's talk with IRS Criminal Investigations special agent Jeff Novitzky.

At least one Web site fairly well-known in sports circles suggests that Mihlfeld is the personal trainer whose name has been redacted from page 14 of the affidavit in a paragraph that reads, in part, as follows:

"Grimsley stated that , a former employee of the [blacked out] and personal fitness trainer to several Major League Baseball players, once referred him to an amphetamine source."

Mihlfeld served as a scout for the Royals and was their strength and conditioning coordinator as recently as 2004. He has worked in minor-league capacities for the Dodgers and the Devil Rays. He helped Grimsley rehabilitate last year after Tommy John surgery.

[B]"I know Jason Grimsley very well," Mihlfeld said. "And I have only two statements to make. One, Jason Grimsley is still my good friend. And two, I've never been involved in any illegal steroids, amphetamines or HGH activity. Period."
Publicly, at least, nobody is yet claiming that Mihlfeld has done anything wrong. Certainly, nobody should be making the leap that he or Pujols are guilty of anything. Right now, it's speculation on a Web site, talk in chat rooms and whispers in clubhouses. A lot of "what ifs?" and "do you thinks?" and "could it be?"

And let's get this straight: Even if that is Mihlfeld's name under the black ink on page 14 of Novitzky's affidavit, that's a long way from being charged, let alone convicted, of anything. Grimsley's statement said the personal trainer in question merely referred Grimsley to a source for amphetamines, not supplied him with them.

Another player Grimsley has worked with is Royals' star Mike Sweeney. In fact, Sweeney has conducted clinics at Mihlfeld's gym. Sweeney, who has dodged rumors about alleged steroids use for years, faced reporters again on Wednesday and, again, strongly denied ever using performance-enhancing drugs.

"I'll put my hand on the Bible or my children's [head]," Sweeney said. "I know I've never taken any steroids, any performance-enhancing drugs or any growth hormones."

Still, a little bit of talk is all this scandal needs. Grimsley to Mihlfeld to Pujols and Sweeney. More connections will be made. The talk will intensify.

Mihlfeld's ready to head it all off.

"He's just like me," Mihlfeld said of his friend Pujols, whom he signed to play at Maple Woods Community College in Kansas City when Mihlfeld was head coach there in the late 1990s. "He's got nothing to hide."

That may well be true. Let's hope, for Mihlfeld's sake and for Pujols' sake -- heck, for the sake of baseball and everybody who ever has taken a little bit of enjoyment in watching it -- that it is.

But right now, truth has little to do with this. The rumors are running.

And the story has taken on a life of its own.

macro
06-09-2006, 03:06 PM
I've never been involved in any illegal steroids, amphetamines or HGH activity. Period.

Was he pointing his finger at Congress when he said that? :lol:

GullyFoyle
06-09-2006, 03:10 PM
I've never been involved in any illegal steroids, amphetamines or HGH activity. Period.

I think he would have done better by leaving that period unsaid... :)

Rotater Cuff
06-09-2006, 03:14 PM
It wouldn't surprise me at all. I've always thought Pujols did one of two things: some type of steroid or lied about his age. The reason being because I have never, ever seen a 21-year old with such a physcially mature body as Pujols.


Oh yes, there is one other with a mature body very similar to Pujols, very similar to the Hulk, for that matter, and that is none other than the oft-injured Wily Mo Pena, who reached his power peak in 2004 and seems to be heading south ever since.

savafan
06-09-2006, 03:20 PM
This is about to blow up bigger than the Black Sox scandal

westofyou
06-09-2006, 03:26 PM
Will Carroll weighed in yesterday...

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=5176



When I heard the Jason Grimsley story on Tuesday afternoon, the first thing that came to mind was...no, the first is unprintable. The second thing that came to mind was “good people are going to get sucked into this.” Logic escapes the performance-enhancement zone with perfect consistency. No one cares that some have been busted--some twice or three times--but everyone is told that Barry Bonds is baseball’s Antichrist. No one cares that more pitchers have tested positive than hitters since tests became public record--and that even before, hitters weren’t getting the advantages credited them. The home runs some tried to take away due to steroids might need a couple tacked on for the juiced-up pitchers they faced. "Give us more speculation!" the public cries. "Feed us a big name that we can wail and gnash our teeth. Feed us someone we once worshipped and let us melt down his Hall of Fame plaque as an offering to the sainted Ruth and Maris. If Barry Bonds used and Jason Grimsley used, then everyone in between must have used, right?"

Wrong. For every one of you that called for testing, you were right to do so. HGH (human growth hormone) and other recombinant versions of naturally occurring chemicals are the next shadow the game will confront, this time with no easy solution, no test on the horizon, and no shady chemist to blame. My position, both before and after writing “The Juice,” was not strong enough and I acknowledge that. But by calling for testing, you must then accept the results and only the results. That leaves us with the moral grey areas, such as Jason Grimsley having not tested positive since results came public. It leaves some wondering if his miraculous comeback from Tommy John surgery wasn’t so miraculous after all. I spoke with his surgeon, Tim Kremchek, this morning. Dr. Kremchek hadn’t heard the news and was dumbfounded. “I don’t prescribe [HGH], I don’t recommend it, and I would never have one of my patients use it,” he told me. It leaves us staring at the abyss of the non-analytic positive or just throwing up the collective hands of the game and handing over the wand to WADA. With the Grimsley case just beginning, and names--in the words of Dan Patrick, “shocking names”--hiding behind the black marker of Jeff Novitzky, we’re only at the beginning of this story. Novitzky’s pen is likely to get more use in the coming months, checking names off the list he’s working from of implicated players with past positive tests and connections to the illegal use of performance-enhancing drugs.

We just cannot jump to conclusions. We must remain grounded in fact and science rather than wild speculation. The truth is bad enough and getting worse.

KronoRed
06-09-2006, 04:12 PM
This is about to blow up bigger than the Black Sox scandal
Good.

Game needs it.

savafan
06-09-2006, 08:25 PM
Nevermind, I forgot there isn't a test for hGH.

edited

MattyHo4Life
06-09-2006, 09:10 PM
I have NO clue if Pujols is a juicer or not, but I've never understood why he gets this free pass from speculation? Every media-type and even fan pretty much states that he is "clearly not a cheater." I just don't know how you can be so sure?

Dunn gets a pass even more than Pujols has. Why? He is a big muscular homerun hitter. I don't think Dunn has used steroids, but I also don't think Pujols has either.

naynay
06-09-2006, 10:12 PM
To say that Albert Pujols has used steroids is to buy yourself a direct ticket to hell. I honestly don't see why these morons have to try and drag everyone else down with them. Some people don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that some players, like Pujols, Jr, Andruw Jones, A-rod, etc. etc. are able to do things the RIGHT WAY. Just because they're not the best athletes, even WITH shrunken balls and huge heads, doesn't mean they need to attack innocents. It's bull, and I'm sick of it.

This steroid crap has been around long enough. This last guy from the D-Backs was cocky enough to have FOUND A WAY AROUND THE TESTING POLICY, and he KEPT.....DOING.......IT. Warning a guy like that 3 times before banning him from the league is like letting a serial killer loose after scolding him in court. They should catch him, BANISH him, and turn their ears off. I mean, Pete Rose was banished for betting. Can't even get into the hall of fame. Should they really let these guys keep playing?

Soapbox for sale.

edabbs44
06-09-2006, 10:45 PM
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/otherMLB/view.bg?articleid=142688

The internet is great...

savafan
06-09-2006, 10:48 PM
So naynay, how do you really feel? ;)

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 11:03 PM
Dunn gets a pass even more than Pujols has. Why? He is a big muscular homerun hitter. I don't think Dunn has used steroids, but I also don't think Pujols has either.
Dunn really isn't muscular (cut), he's just a big ole steer fed boy. He's gotta small spare tire hanging around there. .

CougarQuest
06-09-2006, 11:12 PM
To say that Albert Pujols has used steroids is to buy yourself a direct ticket to hell. I honestly don't see why these morons have to try and drag everyone else down with them. Some people don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that some players, like Pujols, Jr, Andruw Jones, A-rod, etc. etc. are able to do things the RIGHT WAY. Just because they're not the best athletes, even WITH shrunken balls and huge heads, doesn't mean they need to attack innocents. It's bull, and I'm sick of it.

This steroid crap has been around long enough. This last guy from the D-Backs was cocky enough to have FOUND A WAY AROUND THE TESTING POLICY, and he KEPT.....DOING.......IT. Warning a guy like that 3 times before banning him from the league is like letting a serial killer loose after scolding him in court. They should catch him, BANISH him, and turn their ears off. I mean, Pete Rose was banished for betting. Can't even get into the hall of fame. Should they really let these guys keep playing?

Soapbox for sale.

Pete Rose fans from the 70's, 80's and 90's says hi.

MattyHo4Life
06-10-2006, 12:11 AM
Dunn really isn't muscular (cut), he's just a big ole steer fed boy. He's gotta small spare tire hanging around there. .

You don't need to be cut to hit home runs. I don't remember McGwire being ripped.

blugrssblood
06-11-2006, 07:48 PM
it wouldn't surprise me, the Cardinals are built around a cheater, Mark McGwire. And if Pujols is juicing, it would also help the Reds chances of making the playoffs this year. :D

Tommyjohn25
06-11-2006, 08:29 PM
You don't need to be cut to hit home runs. I don't remember McGwire being ripped.

I agree about the "not needing to be cut to hit homers" part. But good lord, I remember McGwire was ripped out of his mind in his playing days with St Louis!

Johnny Footstool
06-11-2006, 09:00 PM
Because he's nice to the media, and fans like him.

Exactly.


You don't need to be cut to hit home runs. I don't remember McGwire being ripped.

I remember him being on the juice, though.

Johnny Footstool
06-11-2006, 09:00 PM
...

MattyHo4Life
06-11-2006, 10:44 PM
Exactly.



I remember him being on the juice, though.

That doesn't make you ripped. You can juice, have huge arms, and a gut. Work those biceps, and skip the cardio.

Yachtzee
06-12-2006, 12:03 AM
Exactly.



I remember him being on the juice, though.

I remember making note of McGwire's neck in '98. Seemed like a lot of acne scars that I didn't remember him having when he was younger.

http://www.yesnetwork.com/images/talent_article/mcgwire_inline_032105.jpg

http://www.espn.go.com/media/mlb/2005/0317/photo/g_markmcgwire_i.jpg

westofyou
06-12-2006, 12:06 AM
Always there.

http://www.mcgwire.com/picturearchive/college/college10.jpg

cincinnati chili
06-12-2006, 12:17 AM
You don't need to be cut to hit home runs. I don't remember McGwire being ripped.

Not to divert, but McGwire at his fitness peak was "ripped." I distinctly remember Travis Rogers, producer of the Jim Rome show (who presumably meets a lot of athletes) commenting, circa 1997, that McGwire (before the record) that McGwire was the most impressive physical specimen he'd ever seen in any sport. He specifically commented about him having a relative reasonable waist size but shoulders significant wider.

The guy was cut.

vaticanplum
06-12-2006, 12:36 PM
The guy was cut.

I can vouch for Chili here that this is definitely true. I know this for a fact because I had that picture of him from Vanity Fair cut out and hanging on my dorm room wall in college. Staring directly at an image for two years kind of burns it into your brain. Cut. Indeed.

MattyHo4Life
06-12-2006, 05:24 PM
I can vouch for Chili here that this is definitely true. I know this for a fact because I had that picture of him from Vanity Fair cut out and hanging on my dorm room wall in college. Staring directly at an image for two years kind of burns it into your brain. Cut. Indeed.

I'll take you word for it. You would know a lot more than I would about it. ;)

flyer85
06-12-2006, 05:26 PM
at the end of his career McGwire had a case of acne on his torso that was for the ages.

Just sayin'.

saboforthird
06-12-2006, 06:52 PM
Like Palmeiro? That guy is HATED by fans now. Trust me, if true Pujols career is over. That's a big if though.

How would it be over? There's no way Selig is going to let Pujols become incriminated. There's too much pride on the line, here. The MLBPA isn't going to admit that Pujols cheated. Somehow, one way or another, I have no faith in the 'system' to do what's best for the game and the fans. All we're good for is spending our hard-earned money. If we don't, they can always find other fans who dig (chicks come to mind) 75 HR's a season, completely out of the ballpark. :thumbdown

registerthis
06-12-2006, 07:01 PM
Like Palmeiro? That guy is HATED by fans now. Trust me, if true Pujols career is over.

Yeah, just like Giambi's career is...

Oh, wait, never mind.

vaticanplum
06-12-2006, 07:15 PM
we don't, they can always find other fans who dig (chicks come to mind) 75 HR's a season, completely out of the ballpark.

So, that's just a play on that horrendous slogan, right?

TOBTTReds
06-12-2006, 07:22 PM
I can vouch for Chili here that this is definitely true. I know this for a fact because I had that picture of him from Vanity Fair cut out and hanging on my dorm room wall in college. Staring directly at an image for two years kind of burns it into your brain. Cut. Indeed.

On McGwire: I have always used to watch the 1990 World Series video. I believe in the first game after he strikes out against Rijo they show him in the dugout taking off his batting gloves and the image of his massive forearms will forever be stained in my head. I've never forgotten how unbelievably big I thought he was back then.

saboforthird
06-12-2006, 07:57 PM
So, that's just a play on that horrendous slogan, right?

No need to post personal attacks, thank you. :thumbup:

Having said that, we fans don't matter. Future fans, do. :)

saboforthird
06-12-2006, 08:00 PM
On McGwire: I have always used to watch the 1990 World Series video. I believe in the first game after he strikes out against Rijo they show him in the dugout taking off his batting gloves and the image of his massive forearms will forever be stained in my head. I've never forgotten how unbelievably big I thought he was back then.

I'd like to know when steroids actually made their way into hands of big league players. I was a new fan to baseball in the late 1980's, don't remember hearing anything about drugs of any sort. Maybe that's because I was in between scams in baseball. :laugh:

paintmered
06-12-2006, 08:05 PM
Yeah, just like Giambi's career is...

Oh, wait, never mind.


Well yeah, but only because he is a Yankee.

GAC
06-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Idle speculation. I knew as soon as the Grimsley story hit, Pujols would be thrown out there. I don't buy it.

Me either.

How does this implicate Pujols?

This trainer HAD BEEN Pujol's personal trainer in the past. So what?

Take a good hard look at Pujols. They guy is not using steroids IMO.

Sosa? Yes.

vaticanplum
06-12-2006, 09:11 PM
No need to post personal attacks, thank you. :thumbup:

Having said that, we fans don't matter. Future fans, do. :)

Just to clarify, that was in no way a personal attack from my end. I couldn't tell if your first post was making a joke or if it was derogatory.

tripleaaaron
06-12-2006, 09:56 PM
Either this guy is a young Arnold Schwarzenegger or he did the Bonds "workout" treatment.:devil:
which would actually be the same workout, lift arm, insert needle, depress. Repeat. Now lift for 20 minutes and you can see them grow.:beerme:

saboforthird
06-12-2006, 11:28 PM
Just to clarify, that was in no way a personal attack from my end. I couldn't tell if your first post was making a joke or if it was derogatory.

I'll be the one to decide whether I think it's a personal attack. Regardless of my intentions your comment wasn't necessary. :beerme:

On the topic of Pujols I'm sure he's doing his best to remain in the shadows of this whole mess. It would be awful to find out that he is indeed older than he claims (probably wouldn't be all that difficult to find out), or even worse that he's cheated his way to big contracts and fame. I don't know, it might be better to continue doing his thing. Shrinking down in size, IF he cheated, would be even more incriminating, to say the least.

Chip R
06-13-2006, 01:41 AM
I'll be the one to decide whether I think it's a personal attack.

Actually, that will be the moderators, not you.

savafan
06-13-2006, 02:02 AM
Actually, that will be the moderators, not you.

the moderators will decide if he thinks it is a personal attack? The phraseology in this thread is giving me a headache. :p:

Anyway, I had wondered aloud on an earlier thread this season whether MLB wanted Pujols to break the single season homerun record because he was a more cuddly public figure than Bonds is. I still have that suspicion.

And just because Pujols looks the same as he always has to us, who is to say that he couldn't have been using something while in college? He already knew Mihlfeld at that point in time, and it wouldn't be a stretch.

vaticanplum
06-13-2006, 02:37 AM
I'll be the one to decide whether I think it's a personal attack. Regardless of my intentions your comment wasn't necessary. :beerme:

Then I'll be the one who decides whether my comment was necessary. If you actually implicated that "chicks" are the ones who "dig 75 HR's a season", then you have some arguments to back up. If it was a joke, fine. That's what I called you on. That Nike slogan was ridiculous and well worth ridicule. You have yet to indicate whether you intended this to be a joke or not, which was my original (totally valid, un-personal attacking, in my opinion) question. If it wasn't, feel free to back up this argument with facts.

Jpup
06-13-2006, 07:52 AM
Me either.

How does this implicate Pujols?

This trainer HAD BEEN Pujol's personal trainer in the past. So what?

Take a good hard look at Pujols. They guy is not using steroids IMO.

Sosa? Yes.

and you know this how?

There is just as much evidence implicating Pujols is there was/is Sammy Sosa. Not many guys get as big and stay as big as Pujols without doing something. It's hard to train hard enough during a 162 game season to stay in that good of shape.

We have no idea who is on the HGH or steroids. It's a fruitless effort anymore to even take a stance on anyone based on anything.

Jason Grimsley, yeah, he was the first guy I though of.

saboforthird
06-13-2006, 06:51 PM
Actually, that will be the moderators, not you.

With all due respect, you (the moderator) can indeed decide whether said post is an "infraction", but I will decide whether I feel what someone wrote to me is a personal attack or not.

vaticanplum
06-13-2006, 06:58 PM
With all due respect, you (the moderator) can indeed decide whether said post is an "infraction", but I will decide whether I feel what someone wrote to me is a personal attack or not.

Yes you can. All I'm saying is that I certainly intended no personal attack or anything malicious. I asked a simple question because I was genuinely unclear of your meaning. Had you answered that you were referencing the Nike slogan, I would have had a good laugh and applauded your creativity. If you meant what you said seriously, then I probably would have taken it up as a matter of debate (the purpose of a message board), still with no malicious intent. To date, you have had three or four posts accusing me of attacking you, and you have yet to address the question at all.