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View Full Version : Will help arrive???



edabbs44
06-11-2006, 12:48 AM
What is the feeling regarding the obvious black hole, otherwise known as the bullpen? Is Wayne going to wait until it is too late to address the problem? Is Wayne currently trying to trade for help? Does Bob have him waiting until July to see if they stay in this thing? Do they think the BP will eventually come around?

I would love to say Wayne is actively trying to make a move, but I cannot be 100% certain that this is actually happening. If the FO thinks that Cincy is a legitimate contender, then I think there would have been at least rumblings about potential trades and reports of ongoing conversations that Wayne was involved in. When Julio was dealt, I was stunned that the Reds were not even mentioned as being involved. The only moves that have been made to this point have been picking up other teams' trash (Yan, Mays, etc).

Coffey, and to a lesser extent Weathers, are the only two reliable relievers on the team. Coffey cannot pitch in every game threatening situation that arises. It would have been great for him to face Barrett today, but if your best reliever has to pitch at the first sign of a threat in every game, then it really doesn't matter b/c the team will be headed nowhere anyway.

I, along with many others, have been enjoying the ride that our team has invited us on in 2006. But as the season drags on it will become painfully obvious that if Wayne doesn't get help soon, the chance being presented to Cincinnati at this time (i.e., major injuries to other ballclubs) will just be flat out wasted. The lineup is playoff caliber and, in a short series, the rotation will be able to keep the team in contention against anyone. But saying the bullpen would not be able to matchup against most major league teams might be a severe understatement. I really hope the FO is not going to wait until the deadline to fix the gaping hole, because it might be too late.

Red in Chicago
06-11-2006, 12:58 AM
i couldn't agree more that we need help in the bullpen...mercker never seems to get the first batter out...white is just aweful...yan has only been here a short time, but is not reliable...hammond has actually been alright lately, despite the tough luck he encountered yesterday...weathers has blown several save opportunities and seems to be giving up a run every other time he pitches...

a solid bullpen guy could certainly help stabilize the pen...pull the trigger wayne, before the innings add up...victories mean attendance...keep this train rolling

jimbo
06-11-2006, 12:59 AM
Coffey, and to a lesser extent Weathers, are the only two reliable relievers on the team.

I would say Hammond has been as reliable as anyone in the bullpen in the past month. Coffey and Hammond are obvious keepers, and probably Weathers also, but after those 3, I agree with you, it's ugly. The bullpen definitely has to improve.

reds44
06-11-2006, 01:02 AM
Be patient. Nobody is looking to dump things in early June. We have to sweat out the next 3-4 weeks, and then it will arrive.

edabbs44
06-11-2006, 01:06 AM
I would say Hammond has been as reliable as anyone in the bullpen in the past month. Coffey and Hammond are obvious keepers, and probably Weathers also, but after those 3, I agree with you, it's ugly. The bullpen definitely has to improve.
Hammond is a back end BP guy. He was horrific in April (.400 BAA), superb in May (.184 BAA) and is a hybrid in June (.292 BAA). Personally, I would rather have Shack up as a LOOGY than have Hammond. Ham has a .323 BAA vs lefties this season. Wayne needs to make a move for a bullpen arm quickly, b/c I fear that this is will be the downfall of this team.

How pathetic is it that in a key situation tonight, the guy being brought in was picked up for nothing only a short time ago?

edabbs44
06-11-2006, 01:12 AM
Be patient. Nobody is looking to dump things in early June. We have to sweat out the next 3-4 weeks, and then it will arrive.
I'm just worried that it will be too late. There are a few teams out there needing hitting at certain positions (i.e., Colorado catching, Zona in general, LAA in general, etc) and I would just like to get some reassurance from the team by hearing something about Krivsky attempting to address the problem. Trotting Double Zero out there every few games is just flat out embarrassing.

Reds1
06-11-2006, 01:15 AM
I called Yan giving up a HR. He just throws 2 pitches and one is a meat ball so if you guess right it's gone. He's better then White, but I don't think he's much better and not the upgrade I'm hoping for. I have my doubts on Mays too, but I"m hopeful. Too bad Wagner can't get it together. We could use him like he was when he came up.

Casey_21
06-11-2006, 01:27 AM
You know folks, I used to HATE Weathers, because he was and is a horrible relief pitcher. Then I did an about face when he turned into a closer. He was a new man. It seemed like everyone on here wanted Coffey to be closer, and I always wondered why. You have Coffey, a guy that can pitch relief, and closer, and you have Weathers, who is ONLY a good closer... Why would you want to change that? Since they have, Coffe'ys ERA has went up, and so has Weathers. Change it back, get us another half decent reliever, and were good to go. Nuff said. Dont ask me who we should trade though, PLEASE!! Cause I love em' all!!! Go Cincy!!

jimbo
06-11-2006, 01:45 AM
Hammond is a back end BP guy. He was horrific in April (.400 BAA), superb in May (.184 BAA) and is a hybrid in June (.292 BAA). Personally, I would rather have Shack up as a LOOGY than have Hammond. Ham has a .323 BAA vs lefties this season. Wayne needs to make a move for a bullpen arm quickly, b/c I fear that this is will be the downfall of this team.

How pathetic is it that in a key situation tonight, the guy being brought in was picked up for nothing only a short time ago?

I'm not sure how you can call Hammond a "back end BP guy" with how good he has pitched since the first two weeks of the season. He is now being used in tight games instead of mop-up roles so he must not be considered "back end" by Narron. Coffey is the only other Reds reliever who has been as reliable as Hammond has been since mid-April. Shackleford and his 7.71 ERA is where he belongs.

edabbs44
06-11-2006, 02:22 AM
I'm not sure how you can call Hammond a "back end BP guy" with how good he has pitched since the first two weeks of the season. He is now being used in tight games instead of mop-up roles so he must not be considered "back end" by Narron. Coffey is the only other Reds reliever who has been as reliable as Hammond has been since mid-April. Shackleford and his 7.71 ERA is where he belongs.
Very easily. Firstly, he is Chris Hammond and has not found the magical fountain of youth. He is 40 years old. He had a great May. If he followed May up with a great June and July I would then start to believe. But I'm not buying yet. June hasn't been so kind. Last year his ERA pre All-Star break was 2.08 and post All-Star break was 8.80. I'm going to go out on a limb and say we've seen Hammond's best.

Narron not considering Hammond a back end guy doesn't say much. He considers Q as his first PH off the bench and RA as his clean up hitter vs righties. Narron's track record for talent evaluation, IMO, is not sterling.

Secondly, Shack was great against lefties this season (.143 BAA). Pitchers spend 20 years in the majors with stats like that. But we need room for Rick White. Use him in the correct fashion and he would be of great value. Tight game in the 6th or 7th, 2 on and Edmonds/Casey/Delgado/other good lefty at the plate. Perfect time for Shack to be in the game. Not White (.323 BAA vs lefties), not Hammond (.313 BAA vs lefties) and not Mercker (.333 BAA vs lefties).

jimbo
06-11-2006, 04:16 AM
Very easily. Firstly, he is Chris Hammond and has not found the magical fountain of youth. He is 40 years old. He had a great May. If he followed May up with a great June and July I would then start to believe. But I'm not buying yet. June hasn't been so kind.


Let's be fair here. The 3 runs that went against his ERA in June happened after he got a perfect ground ball which Lopez screwed up and then got a fly ball which Kearns misplayed......which was ruled a hit due to major league rules. The other 5 June appearances he has given up 0 earned runs. He has been superb this season with the exception of the first two weeks.

Shackleford gives up 7.71 runs per 9 innings. When you are that bad you are not going to last long in the majors, regardless of what your opponents batting average is against you. Shackleford may have better stuff, but he isn't half the pitcher Hammond is.

edabbs44
06-11-2006, 10:56 AM
Let's be fair here. The 3 runs that went against his ERA in June happened after he got a perfect ground ball which Lopez screwed up and then got a fly ball which Kearns misplayed......which was ruled a hit due to major league rules. The other 5 June appearances he has given up 0 earned runs. He has been superb this season with the exception of the first two weeks.

Shackleford gives up 7.71 runs per 9 innings. When you are that bad you are not going to last long in the majors, regardless of what your opponents batting average is against you. Shackleford may have better stuff, but he isn't half the pitcher Hammond is.
ERA over 8 last year post all star break, so odds are good that he will regress. I'm looking towards the future. He has been fine since April, but I wouldn't want him on the mound in October.

jimbo
06-11-2006, 02:06 PM
He also normally gets off to good starts but struggled the first two weeks of this season, so just because things went a certain way for him last season does not mean it will be the same this season. You can spin it all you want but he's been the most reliable reliever in the pen, next to Coffey, since mid-April.

edabbs44
06-11-2006, 02:27 PM
He also normally gets off to good starts but struggled the first two weeks of this season, so just because things went a certain way for him last season does not mean it will be the same this season. You can spin it all you want but he's been the most reliable reliever in the pen, next to Coffey, since mid-April.
I'm not trying to spin anything, just trying to be a realist. I don't expect David Ross to continue the way he has been going. I don't expect Arroyo to end the season with an ERA in the low 2s. I don't expect Griffey to remain healthy for the rest of the season. And I don't expect Hammond to be a major contributor in the bullpen in August and September.

jimbo
06-11-2006, 02:32 PM
Then I guess you don't expect much more from this team.

edabbs44
06-11-2006, 03:04 PM
Then I guess you don't expect much more from this team.
That's not true. I expect Arroyo and Harang (and potentially Milton, wiht his new found fastball) to pitch well throughout they year. I expect Coffey to be a very good closer and Weathers to be adequate. I expect the lineup to do its fare share. But I expect the road ahead to be rough if they do not acquire bullpen help soon, which is why I started this thread.