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View Full Version : Dunn weighs in on moving Griffey (Belisle update also)



dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 08:23 AM
From today's DDN. (Dunn didn't know who Eric Davis is???)
http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0613redsnotes.html


Dunn: Keep Griffey in center field
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

CINCINNATI In the latest "Move Ken Griffey Jr." opinion, former Cincinnati Reds superstar Eric Davis, perhaps the greatest center fielder ever to wear a Reds uniform, weighed in.

He said while Griffey may still cover center field adequately, if not spectacularly, it would be good for his future if he moved to left field.

What people fail to realize is that Griffey is 36, nearly at the end of his contract, and he probably will fade home to Orlando and his family after 2008 or 2009.

So what is there to preserve?

Left fielder Adam Dunn scanned the article in which Davis made the suggestion and shook his head.

"First of all, I was reading the article to see who Davis was," said Dunn. "Yeah, Junior is not as fast as he used to be, but who is when they started at 19 and they are 36 now?

"The thing is, he still gets it done out there," said Dunn. "He is in a position to say whether he wants to switch or not. He has earned that right. And if he thought he was really hurting the team, I really think we would (switch). But I don't think that's even a question right now, no reason to even discuss it.

"All is see is him making great catches, one after another. Make great plays? Yes he does, he really does," said Dunn.

Meanwhile, Griffey has moved into second place in the outfield balloting for the All-Star game and trails first-place Andruw Jones of Atlanta by less than 52,000 votes.

Is he right or left?

Relief pitcher Rick White works crossword puzzles before every game in the clubhouse and he writes left-handed. The Springfield native/resident pitches right-handed.

"I'm all messed up," he said. "I'm left-eye dominant. I write left-handed, I kick a football left-handed, I shoot a bow left-handed, I hunt with a gun left-handed. I did shoot a basketball right-handed, but I guess that's why I always missed to the left.

"My dad tried to get me to throw left-handed, but that didn't work," he said. "And it hurt me in high school, writing left-handed. I couldn't cheat because I couldn't hide what I was doing with my right hand."

Who's that guy?

Pitcher Grant Balfour didn't pitch in 2005 after undergoing Tommy John surgery.

Nevertheless, former Reds general manager Dan O'Brien signed him to a one-year major-league contract in January of this year.

No, he hasn't pitched yet.

Balfour has been in Sarasota at extended spring training, but he showed up Monday in Cincinnati, "To do some rehab up here," said interim pitching coach Tom Hume. "I've never seen him throw. He played some catch (Monday), but he isn't close to being ready. I was told he is only throwing at abut 75 percent."

Balfour, 28, has a major-league career record of 5-1 (one start, 59 relief appearances) with a 4.63 ERA with the Minnesota Twins.

Weathering the storm

Although David Weathers has shoulder tendinitis that needs a few days of rest, the Reds are not considering disablement, at least for a couple of days.

That, of course, means manager Jerry Narron will be short in the bullpen.

"Chris Hammond and Kent Mercker (both left-handers) have pitched well their last few times, Esteban Yan has pitched well except for one inning the other night (game-losing grand slam Saturday to Michael Barrett), but that can happen to anybody," said Narron. "I feel pretty good about Mercker and Hammond vs. left-handers or right-handers. Doesn't matter.

Belisle not ready

Relief pitcher Matt Belisle was eligible to come off the disabled list (lower back strain) Monday, but it didn't happen, even though he threw on the side and impressed interim pitching coach Tom Hume.

The plan if for Belisle to start a minor-league rehab assignment either Wednesday or Thursday.

"Hopefully, tentatively, but that is not written in cement," said Narron. "Hume was very impressed with the way he threw."

Appearance by Foster

Former Big Red Machine left fielder George Foster, a five-time All-Star, is scheduled for an autograph-signing session tonight at Extra Innings, an indoor baseball batting cage facility in Miamisburg.

Foster is appearing to benefit the Building Bridges program in Dayton, a program for disadvantaged boys in Dayton.

princeton
06-13-2006, 08:35 AM
"He is in a position to say whether he wants to switch or not. He has earned that right. "

there's the rub. And it probably takes a trade to remove that right.

it seems odd to think of someone as young as Eric Davis as being from a quaint, more modest era. By extrapolation, ten years from now the manager will be submitting the lineup cards directly to the superstar hitter for editing. If CFer Drew Stubbs feels like playing a few games at shortstop, then by gum he'll be SS

REDREAD
06-13-2006, 09:17 AM
"First of all, I was reading the article to see who Davis was," said Dunn.

I guess the new regime's policy of trying to connect our current players to past glory (bringing in soto, browning, etc) still has a lot of work to do. I know Dunn is perhaps too young to have seen Davis on TV, but I hope he was joking. Not a huge deal if Dunn doesn't know who Davis is, but that was kind of a rude comment. (I know Dunn is trying to support his friend Jr)

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 09:23 AM
Pretty sure he meant to be rude! :thumbdown

Joseph
06-13-2006, 09:25 AM
I guess the new regime's policy of trying to connect our current players to past glory (bringing in soto, browning, etc) still has a lot of work to do. I know Dunn is perhaps too young to have seen Davis on TV, but I hope he was joking. Not a huge deal if Dunn doesn't know who Davis is, but that was kind of a rude comment. (I know Dunn is trying to support his friend Jr)

I don't necessarily think that was the way he meant it. When I first saw the headline of the article it said something like "Davis thinks Griffey should move" and I also asked, 'Davis who?' and had to scan the article to see which Davis they were referring to. I could be wrong, but thats how I took Dunn's statement. Not, 'Who is Eric Davis?' but rather 'What Davis thinks he should move?'

And for the record ED was my favorite player growing up, so I knew who Eric Davis was/is.

realreds1
06-13-2006, 09:25 AM
I guess the new regime's policy of trying to connect our current players to past glory (bringing in soto, browning, etc) still has a lot of work to do. I know Dunn is perhaps too young to have seen Davis on TV, but I hope he was joking. Not a huge deal if Dunn doesn't know who Davis is, but that was kind of a rude comment. (I know Dunn is trying to support his friend Jr)


Guess Dunn hasn't seen this year's tickets. Davis shares the ticket with Griffey.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 09:26 AM
Pretty sure he meant to be rude! :thumbdown
Or he may have legitimately not known who ED is... I can remember reading an article about a pitcher warming up for a Spring Training game a few years ago (it may have been Randy Johnson) when his pitching coach tells him Henry Aaron is there at the ballpark. The pitcher had no idea who Henry Aaron was. Being a player does not make one a fan, but it is frustrating to hear the ignorance of players' (not just Dunn's) ignorance of the history of the game. :rolleyes:

Johnny Footstool
06-13-2006, 09:26 AM
I guess the new regime's policy of trying to connect our current players to past glory (bringing in soto, browning, etc) still has a lot of work to do. I know Dunn is perhaps too young to have seen Davis on TV, but I hope he was joking. Not a huge deal if Dunn doesn't know who Davis is, but that was kind of a rude comment. (I know Dunn is trying to support his friend Jr)

I agree. It seemed like a weak, petty stab at Eric Davis.

Here's a clue, Adam. He won a World Series with the Reds, and blew up his kidney in the process. Yeah, that guy.

Joseph
06-13-2006, 09:30 AM
I still say it wasn't a stab at ED. Just poor journalism by the author in only putting the name Davis in the title.

Krusty
06-13-2006, 09:34 AM
Worst thing the Reds can do is letting the players have a voice on personnel moves.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-13-2006, 09:37 AM
Eric Davis. The greatest all-around player I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. Even if it was a brief run and squeezed around stints on the D.L.

Like Johnny said. The guy that tore his kidney while winning a WS. The guy that battled injuries and won comeback player of the year. Yeah, the guy that battled colon cancer and had a pretty damn good career after beating it.

Yeah, that player.

Not a smart thing to say, Adam. Rather punkish if you ask me.

Krusty
06-13-2006, 09:41 AM
Eric Davis. The greatest all-around player I have ever witnessed in my lifetime. Even if it was a brief run and squeezed around stints on the D.L.

Like Johnny said. The guy that tore his kidney while winning a WS. The guy that battled injuries and won comeback player of the year. Yeah, the guy that battled colon cancer and had a pretty damn good career after beating it.

Yeah, that player.

Not a smart thing to say, Adam. Rather punkish if you ask me.

Davis has a point. Playing center is much harder on the legs than LF or RF. If Davis shifted to LF earlier in his career, I think he would have lasted longer. Same thing applies to Junior. You would think anyone who has had the injuries to their legs like Junior would welcome a shift to another position that would be easier physically. Go figure.

NJReds
06-13-2006, 09:42 AM
I still say it wasn't a stab at ED. Just poor journalism by the author in only putting the name Davis in the title.

Reporters don't write headlines.

If there's a reference to a former Red named Davis that played CF, it shouldn't take long to figure out who it is. Davis also played 56 games in LF in 1990; I don't recall if he made an issue of it.

RFS62
06-13-2006, 09:48 AM
There is a school of thought that suggests that it's tougher on the legs to make the hard cuts and stops before running into the wall from either corner outfield position after a hard sprint. In center, he can run out his sprints without a sudden stop.

Roy Tucker
06-13-2006, 09:59 AM
From today's DDN. (Dunn didn't know who Eric Davis is???)
Esteban Yan has pitched well except for one inning the other night (game-losing grand slam Saturday to Michael Barrett)
i.e. besides that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Marc D
06-13-2006, 10:00 AM
Adam Dunn giving his .02 on defensive outfield play and suggesting Eric Davis doesn't know what he's talking about. :laugh:

vaticanplum
06-13-2006, 10:05 AM
My guess is that Adam Dunn just didn't realize who he was when they referred to him by last name, or else he was just making a joke. Even if Dunn somehow missed Eric Davis's stardom while he was growing up, which has to be near impossible given that he was probably paying good attention to baseball, Dunn wears Davis's number for crying out loud. Someone in the Reds' organization would have pointed this out to him by now.

I love the amount of love Eric Davis gets here every time he's even mentioned. In retrospect, I think he may be one of the most beloved Reds ever.

Puffy
06-13-2006, 10:05 AM
Eric Davis came to camp with the Reds this year and met everybody and talked to them. I'm sure Dunn knows who he is just based on that.

I agree with Joseph - the headline doesn't say which "Davis" it was, and Davis is a very common name.

RedsManRick
06-13-2006, 10:08 AM
Dunn is pretty famously a football guy who just happens to be playing baseball for his career. It's not nearly the passion it is for other guys. Not saying it's wrong or right, just how it is.

My problem is the notion that guys somehow "earn" the right to decide certain things. If I want an objective answer regarding how beneficial a position change could be to a team, the players are the last people I'd ask. If you ask Brett Favre, he still thinks he's the quaterback he was 5 years ago. If you Randy Johnson, he's just having a string of bad luck.

Generally speaking, people are very poor at objectively analyzing their own abilities and behavior. I know that Junior is an awesome guy and don't mean to disparage him in any way. However, if I want to know if he's lost a few steps, or if the team would benefit from him in RF instead of CF, I'm not going to ask the people most affected by the proposed change.

registerthis
06-13-2006, 10:13 AM
Adam Dunn giving his .02 on defensive outfield play and suggesting Eric Davis doesn't know what he's talking about. :laugh:

My thoughts exactly.

KittyDuran
06-13-2006, 10:19 AM
Dunn does share the same uniform number with that Davis guy...:p:

MWM
06-13-2006, 10:19 AM
Serious over-reaction here. Like Joseph said, he had to read the article to see that it was ERIC Davis who made the comment. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly who ED is and it was not a slight at him at all. When I read it I figured he thought "Davis" was some other media talking head going on about Junior's defense. That's why he didn't say he had to read the article to see who "Eric Davis" was. He only used the name "Davis" in his quote.

Puffy
06-13-2006, 10:23 AM
Serious over-reaction here.

On Redszone?????? No freakin way!!!

REDREAD
06-13-2006, 10:24 AM
I guess I took the comment as Dunn saw the headline of someone suggesting Jr move to a corner slot, and Dunn asking "Just who is this guy Davis anyway, what would he know?"

Even if there was a small chance that Dunn didn't immediately know which Davis would be commenting on moving from CF (which I find hard to believe, considering someone else mentioned that he met Davis in ST), that was still a very rude comment. If Dunn wants to support Jr in CF, he doesn't have to cut on Davis. The fact that he led off his arguement supporting Jr with "I don't know who this Davis guy is" was very rude and codescending. It seems that Davis was the perfect guy to give an opinion on Jr moving, considering Davis battled injuries and made the shift himself.

Dunn is a great hitter, but I wish some of Davis' class would've been absorbed by him. I'm not saying that we should dump Dunn, but he's made numerous comments like that which irk me. IMO, Dunn has a bit of the Graves attitude (just show up, do your job and collect the paycheck, no passion for winning). Again, I'm not saying Dunn doesn't earn his money, but he does have a flippant attitude (kind of like the anti-Greg Vaughn).

vaticanplum
06-13-2006, 10:28 AM
My impression of Dunn is just that he's a very casual guy. He may not have, dare I say it, a lot of depth or introspection to his thought, though of course that's just an impression and I could be totally wrong. He says what he thinks and sometimes it's delightful and sometimes it's head-scratching, but nothing he's ever said has struck me as malicious or terribly ignorant. I do respectfully disagree with the assertion that he is classless and only there for the paycheck...to me it's just more a matter of not doing his best talking off the field (which is the case with a lot of athletes).

REDREAD
06-13-2006, 10:29 AM
Serious over-reaction here. Like Joseph said, he had to read the article to see that it was ERIC Davis who made the comment. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly who ED is and it was not a slight at him at all. .

I disagree. Dunn sounded very defensive. Why did he lead off his argument like that? If another player saw an article about Dunn, would they say, "Well, first of all, I had to read it to see which Dunn they were talking about.. I wasn't sure if it was Adam Dunn or Warrick Dunn".

It was just Dunn getting very close minded, defensive and sticking up for his buddy Jr., regardless of the facts.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 10:31 AM
Dunn is a great hitter, but I wish some of Davis' class would've been absorbed by him. I'm not saying that we should dump Dunn, but he's made numerous comments like that which irk me. IMO, Dunn has a bit of the Graves attitude (just show up, do your job and collect the paycheck, no passion for winning). Again, I'm not saying Dunn doesn't earn his money, but he does have a flippant attitude (kind of like the anti-Greg Vaughn).
And those of us who get on MartyB about not caring for Dunn or "rooting" for him. That's why. It's not about his baseball, it's about personalities.

Marty's been known to take his personal agenda into the booth. See: Showalter, Buck.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 10:37 AM
Dunn has a bit of the Graves attitude (just show up, do your job and collect the paycheck, no passion for winning).

Rich Aurilia is full of passion, hence why he gets a free pass for 0-5's and lots of love for 4-4's. Adam Dunn is not a wear it on you sleeve guy and that's why he gets it from all sides for opening his mouth, not opening his mouth and more of the same.

If Dunn didn't know who Davis was I wouldn't be surprised, if he did and he was yanking the reporters chain I wouldn't be surpised, that all sorts of assumptions are being assigned to his game and demeanor based on that quote. I'm not surprised.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 10:40 AM
Baseball is more than just a game, it's life.

Chip R
06-13-2006, 10:47 AM
I guess the new regime's policy of trying to connect our current players to past glory (bringing in soto, browning, etc) still has a lot of work to do.

The conspiracy theorist in me thinks the Reds asked ED to make a comment about that in hopes that Jr. would take it better coming from a great former player rather than Wayne or Narron. And ED didn't say that Jr. couldn't play CF anymore, he just said that he would last longer in RF or LF. Jr. reads that and possibly thinks ED may have something there. As for Dunn, I don't know nor do I care if he knew who ED was. But he has a vested interest in this move as well. If Jr. moves to LF, Dunn goes to 1st. Dunn doesn't like 1st so he's all for Jr. staying in CF. Plus he's got his friend's back.

Doc. Scott
06-13-2006, 10:52 AM
I'm pretty certain Dunn would have no idea who Davis was before he came to ST, at least. Dunn grew up an Astros fan (and is dying to go back there, right? ;)) and probably knows more about Terry Puhl and Alan Ashby and Harry Spilman than the Reds of the same era.

Besides, he's not exactly Bill James with the knowledge of baseball history. Or a member of MENSA.

Barbarossa
06-13-2006, 10:53 AM
Another slant on this might be that Dunn is upset about Davis saying a move to left field would lengthen Jr's career, is because that means Dunn moves to first base. Yaneverknow!:confused:

flyer85
06-13-2006, 10:57 AM
he's got his friend's back.IMHO this is probably the explanation, especially with his comment that Jr should decide when it is time to move. I don't think Dunn has a complicated view of things.

BuckU
06-13-2006, 10:58 AM
Rich Aurilia is full of passion, hence why he gets a free pass for 0-5's and lots of love for 4-4's. Adam Dunn is not a wear it on you sleeve guy and that's why he gets it from all sides for opening his mouth, not opening his mouth and more of the same.



A lot of guys don't wear it on their sleeve. EE's a good example of that. You never know if he just punched out 4 times or hit for the cycle.

Maybe Reds fans just want their "cornerstone" to act like he gives a crap? Dunn commenting on a artcile that is focused on defense is a gigantic oxymoron. If Griffey stays in CF it's becuase he's Griffey, not becuase Dunn told some reporter that he didn't think it was a good idea. So shut up (Dunn)

I'm so sick of Dunn's tired act. His performance, everytime he opens his mouth. I'm ready to see them ship his lackadaisical attitide elsewhere. And at this point I could care less what BP arm we get in return.

If there was little drop off when Jr was out, I am positive that Dunn's overall production (not just HR's) can be matched by a Deno/Freel combo.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:00 AM
If there was little drop off when Jr was out, I am positive that Dunn's overall production (not just HR's) can be matched by a Deno/Freel combo.
Well I'm positive it couldn't.

As for perceptions, as I said everyone has one.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 11:02 AM
Individuals have created a caricature of Dunn and that is why they don't like him as a player or as a person.

Really the Reds just ought to release the guy and get it over with.

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:06 AM
Well I'm positive it couldn't.



I'm curious as to why you don't think that Dunn's well rounded game could not be reproduced by a Deno/Freel combo. Dunn will hit more HR's than those two combined, but I think the upgrade in D and base running will level it out.

So instead of that world famous Dunn solo shot we will have a competent fielder who will not give bases away, and perhaps swipe a couple in the process.

The impact would be minimal

vaticanplum
06-13-2006, 11:07 AM
I'm so sick of Dunn's tired act. His performance, everytime he opens his mouth. I'm ready to see them ship his lackadaisical attitide elsewhere. And at this point I could care less what BP arm we get in return.

:(

Sometimes I think people in Redsland are a little spoiled. Try supporting a team that over the past few years has willfully employed Clemens, Sheffield, Wells, Johnson, Brown, and Grumpy McGrumperpants El Duque. I supported them all, in some cases I loved them, but I had to grit my teeth about it sometimes. I haven't had to grit my teeth for anybody on the Reds since...well, Dibble, probably.

(note: the emoticon above is supposed to indicate a sad feeling. I am trying to employ emoticons to keep the tone of my posts light-hearted, but I suspect I do not have a talent for using them successfully.)

flyer85
06-13-2006, 11:07 AM
I'm curious as to why you don't think that Dunn's well rounded game could not be reproduced by a Deno/Freel combo. Dunn will hit more HR's than those two combined, but I think the upgrade in D and base running will level it out.

So instead of that world famous Dunn solo shot we will have a competent fielder who will not give bases away, and perhaps swipe a couple in the process.

The impact would be minimalThank's for the in-depth analysis :thumbup:

traderumor
06-13-2006, 11:08 AM
Individuals have created a caricature of Dunn and that is why they don't like him as a player or as a person.

Really the Reds just ought to release the guy and get it over with.There are also a bevy of Dunn apologists who come running to his side anytime his name comes up in a thread. There's a bit of imbalance in both directions.

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 11:08 AM
nobody had a problem getting over Casey. He was replaced pretty quickly and I am pretty sure we could find two guys that strike out 195 times between them and hit 235.

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:10 AM
Thank's for the in-depth analysis :thumbup:

No prob :thumbup:

flyer85
06-13-2006, 11:13 AM
There are also a bevy of Dunn apologists who come running to his side anytime his name comes up in a thread. There's a bit of imbalance in both directions.Honestly a .950+ OPS needs no defending, there is no other everyday Red even close. The unhappiness is a result of not accepting a player for what he is rather than focusing on what he is not or what someone would like him to be. Dunn has his warts but any objective analysis of the data yields a conclusion that there is no player on this team that can come close to replacing his ability to not make outs and acquire bases.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 11:14 AM
Objective... what's fun about that???

RedsManRick
06-13-2006, 11:14 AM
If there was little drop off when Jr was out, I am positive that Dunn's overall production (not just HR's) can be matched by a Deno/Freel combo.

By what measurement of production?

If we look at PECOTA and take Dunns 50th percentile projection, he'd accumulate .07 VORP/PA.

Compare that to .04 for Freel and .05 for Denorfia at the their 90TH(!) percentile and you get a feel for the difference.

Now obvioulsy PECOTA isn't real life, but the basic gist of it that an average year from Dunn is nearly half again as valuable from the best possible year imaginable from Freel or Deno.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:14 AM
I'm curious as to why you don't think that Dunn's well rounded game could not be reproduced by a Deno/Freel combo. Dunn will hit more HR's than those two combined, but I think the upgrade in D and base running will level it out.

So instead of that world famous Dunn solo shot we will have a competent fielder who will not give bases away, and perhaps swipe a couple in the process.

The impact would be minimal
Adam Dunn makes less outs than those two and obtains more bases with the balls he hits. He plays the least important defensive position on the field, in an era that base running is not the tool it once was so the defense and base running issue is a Cindy Crawford mole to me.

But by all means replace a 26 year old with a 26 year old AAA player and a 30 year old with a sub .400 career SLG%.

Can't wait to get that BP arm... maybe we can get Mike Marshall.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:17 AM
nobody had a problem getting over Casey. He was replaced pretty quickly and I am pretty sure we could find two guys that strike out 195 times between them and hit 235.
yes, I'm sure we can... Dave Nicholson waits in the wings.

Now can we find a guy who hits 75 EBH, drives in 100 and scores 100?

Because there's only been 5 Reds who have done it and only 2 have done it more than once and one of them is Adam Dunn.

traderumor
06-13-2006, 11:18 AM
Honestly a .950+ OPS needs no defending, there is no other everyday Red even close. The unhappiness is a result of not accepting a player for what he is rather than focusing on what he is not or what someone would like him to be. Dunn has his warts but any objective analysis of the data yields a conclusion that there is no player on this team that can come close to replacing his ability to not make outs and acquire bases.The good news is that Krivsky seems to have an understanding of Dunn's value. I've spent time defending his merits myself, but I think the backhandedness of the remark in the article was pretty clear and petty. Probably as petty as debating about whether or not he really doesn't know who Eric Davis is ;)

NJReds
06-13-2006, 11:20 AM
There are also a bevy of Dunn apologists who come running to his side anytime his name comes up in a thread. There's a bit of imbalance in both directions.

That's true. And as is usually the case, the truth lies somewhere in between. He's not the worst player ever, but I wouldn't reserve his spot in Cooperstown yet, either.

I've never seen a player that polarizes the fan base so much. I guess Reggie was somewhat controversial in the late-70s with the Yankees, but I was only 7, and there was no ESPN to tear apart his game every night.
But he was called out for being a poor defender that was lazy at times -- wasn't tremendously popular in the lockerroom. He was also criticized for striking out a lot. But the fans generally embraced him.

Amazing what three homeruns against the Dodgers in the World Series can do for one's popularity.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 11:20 AM
Now can we find a guy who hits 75 EBH, drives in 100 and scores 100?

Because there's only been 5 Reds who have done it and only 2 have done it more than once and one of them is Adam Dunn.can we bring Joe back?

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:22 AM
Honestly a .950+ OPS needs no defending, there is no other everyday Red even close. The unhappiness is a result of not accepting a player for what he is rather than focusing on what he is not or what someone would like him to be. Dunn has his warts but any objective analysis of the data yields a conclusion that there is no player on this team that can come close to replacing his ability to not make outs and acquire bases.

So you think that the offense would miss a beat without Dunn? That that one RBI form his solo shot would not be made up elsewhere?

smith288
06-13-2006, 11:22 AM
I personally think Dunn is a great guy with a witty sense of humor that sometimes can be misconstrude.

The thing is, he is a Texan and most likely don't give two craps about what anyone thinks of him. I think its part of their public education down their.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:23 AM
Amazing what three homeruns against the Dodgers in the World Series can do for one's popularity.Don't sell Reggie short, he was a blatent self promoter.

His game and Frank Howard's and Harmon Killebrew all got the beat up that Dunn's does, on a lesser scale Norm Cash and Darrell Evans experienced the diet version of the same treatment.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:25 AM
So you think that the offense would miss a beat without Dunn? That that one RBI form his solo shot would not be made up elsewhere?
The Man has scored 14.6% of the teams runs he does have some worth.:laugh:

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:39 AM
The Man has scored 14.6% of the teams runs he does have some worth.:laugh:

He has played in every game but one, I would expect that.

Can somebody pull his RISP average?

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:46 AM
He has played in every game but one, I would expect that.

Can somebody pull his RISP average?
Pete Rose scored 14.7% of the BRM runs from 1970-1976, Dunn's doing that for this years team and it's pedestrian.

OK....

BRM
06-13-2006, 11:47 AM
He has played in every game but one, I would expect that.

Can somebody pull his RISP average?

I'd say the fact he's on base nearly 40% of the time is the primary reason.

Dunn has a RISP BA of .148. He has 21 RBI in 54 RISP at-bats. Let's compare that with Lopez. Felo has a RISP BA of .302 and has 16 RBI in 53 at-bats. How is it that Dunn can be more efficient at driving in runs with RISP with a BA that's over .150 points lower? Easy, it's in the SLG%. Dunn has a RISP SLG% of .500, Felo's is only .358. SLG drives RBI production, not batting average.

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:49 AM
Oh, I found it .148

How awesome :laugh:

What a kick butt stat for your middle of the order guy. How on earth would the Reds ever replace that?

Johnny Footstool
06-13-2006, 11:52 AM
The more I look at that article, the more I think Dunn's comment was directed towards the author of the original piece for not making it clear that it was *Eric* Davis. But in typical fashion, Hal McCoy included the quote without context and made it appear as though Dunn was bashing Eric Davis.

So I retract my earlier comments. Hal fooled me. My bad.

Johnny Footstool
06-13-2006, 11:54 AM
Oh, I found it .148

How awesome :laugh:

What a kick butt stat for your middle of the order guy. How on earth would the Reds ever replace that?

Why don't you bring up his strikeout numbers as well? Or sacrifice bunts?

Cherry-pick a few more negative stats to help you ignore Dunn's true value as a run producer.

BRM
06-13-2006, 11:54 AM
Oh, I found it .148

How awesome :laugh:

What a kick butt stat for your middle of the order guy. How on earth would the Reds ever replace that?

Yet he's more productive in that situation than a guy sporting a .302 avg.

vaticanplum
06-13-2006, 11:55 AM
Why don't you bring up his strikeout numbers as well? Or sacrifice bunts?

Don't forget batting average.

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:55 AM
I'd say the fact he's on base nearly 40% of the time is the primary reason.

Dunn has a RISP BA of .148. He has 21 RBI in 54 RISP at-bats. Let's compare that with Lopez. Felo has a RISP BA of .302 and has 16 RBI in 53 at-bats. How is it that Dunn can be more efficient at driving in runs with RISP with a BA that's over .150 points lower? Easy, it's in the SLG%. Dunn has a RISP SLG% of .500, Felo's is only .358. SLG drives RBI production, not batting average.

That's a good point, but it could be argued that Felo's job is not a primary run producer. All his AB's have been in the 1 or 2 slot.

Dunn is paid like a run producer, he's supposed to be a run producer. The above goes to show that when the runs are out there to be produced, he doesn't drive them in.

If there are runners on and Felo's up, I'm more confident he'll drive them in than Dunn. Does anybody else feel that way?

pedro
06-13-2006, 11:56 AM
1. Dunn doesn't get to talk about defense.

2. Players don't have the "right" to play where they want. That's rank BS IMO.

reds44
06-13-2006, 11:56 AM
Wow we are beating the Dunn subject to death some more I see.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 11:57 AM
Here we go again another statistical analysis of Dunn's offensive worth vs. his shortcomings. I've read this one before:

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46970

Could we get back to dealing with the issues actually in the article. Thanks, Pedro!

BuckU
06-13-2006, 11:58 AM
Why don't you bring up his strikeout numbers as well? Or sacrifice bunts?

Cherry-pick a few more negative stats to help you ignore Dunn's true value as a run producer.

Thanks but this was never really about K's or bunts, but thanks again for your contribution.

The thing about it is, he's not producing many runs.

ochre
06-13-2006, 12:00 PM
bye bye.