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View Full Version : Krivsky Needs To Make A Move Now



Krusty
06-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Not knocking the new GM because all his moves have been golden. But let's face it, he needs to move now instead of waiting till the July trading deadline. The bullpen is a mess and the Reds need to make a move to acquire two relievers.

So who can the Reds trade that can shore up this area? How about Adam Dunn? Yeah, yeah I can hear it now....here we go again. But let's be honest, Dunn is the most marketable commodity that can bring the most in return. If Dunn was dealt, you could shift Griffey to LF and insert Denorifia in CF. If Griffey isn't receptive to this idea till after the season, then you play Denorfia in LF knowing that the outfield defense is upgraded.

So who would be interested in Dunn and can shore up the Reds bullpen?

registerthis
06-13-2006, 10:34 AM
I would never - under any circumstances - trade Dunn for a bullpen arm(s).

Krusty
06-13-2006, 10:38 AM
I would never - under any circumstances - trade Dunn for a bullpen arm(s).

Hey, I value the bullpen more than starting pitching. You don't think the 1990 Reds would have won the World Series without the Nasty Boys?

If Dunn can net us two or three arms to bolster the bullpen for now and the future, you have to consider it.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Just guessing here, but I'd say we may have to ride with what we have for the rest of the year. I'm betting that the new administration will be content with possibly contending this season, possibly not... but not devaluing any of the offensive talent in trade during the season and then trying to make hay with free agent arms in the off season.

Kc61
06-13-2006, 10:55 AM
Not knocking the new GM because all his moves have been golden. But let's face it, he needs to move now instead of waiting till the July trading deadline. The bullpen is a mess and the Reds need to make a move to acquire two relievers.

So who can the Reds trade that can shore up this area? How about Adam Dunn? Yeah, yeah I can hear it now....here we go again. But let's be honest, Dunn is the most marketable commodity that can bring the most in return. If Dunn was dealt, you could shift Griffey to LF and insert Denorifia in CF. If Griffey isn't receptive to this idea till after the season, then you play Denorfia in LF knowing that the outfield defense is upgraded.

So who would be interested in Dunn and can shore up the Reds bullpen?

We are really way ahead of ourselves on Mr. Denorfia. He is a high BA, good OBP, low power hitter at the AAA level. He is a good fielder but I recall reading that he might be better suited to a corner in the outfield.

I think he has earned a major league spot somewhere. But as Dunn's full time replacement in the lineup?

I would like to see Deno succeed, but his rightful position, at this point, is as a fourth outfielder. Most likely, I think, is that he is trade bait for the pen, not Adam Dunn.

Krusty
06-13-2006, 10:59 AM
We are really way ahead of ourselves on Mr. Denorfia. He is a high BA, good OBP, low power hitter at the AAA level. He is a good fielder but I recall reading that he might be better suited to a corner in the outfield.

I think he has earned a major league spot somewhere. But as Dunn's full time replacement in the lineup?

I would like to see Deno succeed, but his rightful position, at this point, is as a fourth outfielder. Most likely, I think, is that he is trade bait for the pen, not Adam Dunn.

I don't know about that. Seems Krivsky values defense highly. And despite Dunn's success for hitting home runs when the game isn't on the line, his defense in LF has everyone kicking the dog.

As I said, Dunn is the commodity that can net the most in return.

Heath
06-13-2006, 11:00 AM
Hey, I value the bullpen more than starting pitching. You don't think the 1990 Reds would have won the World Series without the Nasty Boys?

If Dunn can net us two or three arms to bolster the bullpen for now and the future, you have to consider it.

Dunn better net us more than "two-to-three" bullpen arms.

Most bullypen guys are usually tossed to the fire as trial and error. Sometimes they are guys who've washed out and recycled. I don't mind DFA's in this case since they can't be any worse than they already have.

I am against trading Adam Dunn period. Unless it brings us a starting ace.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 11:05 AM
If Dunn can net us two or three arms to bolster the bullpen for now and the future, you have to consider it.Ughhh

No respect.

BTW how many middle relivers (or closers for that matter) can you pencil in for 2-3 good seasons in a row?

Give away Dunn for some magic beans if you want.

But don't cry when your vines die.

Z-Fly
06-13-2006, 11:07 AM
To make a move to just make a move doesn't make a whole lot of sense. I agree the bullpen is weak but I think most teams are. What team, that is not in playoff contention, is going to take on salary and have quality young arms in return?

registerthis
06-13-2006, 11:10 AM
If Dunn can net us two or three arms to bolster the bullpen for now and the future, you have to consider it.

A good middle reliever is valuable, but shouldn't be that difficult to find--and should be had for less than the cost of a player like Dunn.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 11:33 AM
trade Dunn for bullpen help, now that is a good idea :rolleyes:

osuceltic
06-13-2006, 11:33 AM
I don't know about that. Seems Krivsky values defense highly. And despite Dunn's success for hitting home runs when the game isn't on the line, his defense in LF has everyone kicking the dog.

As I said, Dunn is the commodity that can net the most in return.
I'm all for using Dunn to improve the team, but it has to be more than a couple of bullpen arms.

I was trying to remember what the package was that the Astros reportedly were offering for Dunn last season. Does anyone remember? There were four names -- a couple of big leaguers and a couple of minor leaguers.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 11:35 AM
Hey, I value the bullpen more than starting pitching. Guys who pitch less are intrinsically more valuable than guys who pitch 150% more. Hmmm, I'll have to ponder that logic for a while.

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 12:02 PM
Why wouldn't they be? They are expected to pitch every day and not every 5th day. A starting pitcher could have a second job if he wanted to!

Steve4192
06-13-2006, 12:05 PM
Sorry, I just couldn't let this little gem slide by....


despite Dunn's success for hitting home runs when the game isn't on the line
Is that you Marty?

Shouldn't you be off filming a Kroger commercial or something?

BuckeyeRedleg
06-13-2006, 12:09 PM
I say WK needs to break this thing down and start selling off anything not named Lopez, Phillips, Dunn, EE, Coffey, Arroyo, or Harang.

Face it, this is nothing more than a Jekyl and Hyde .500 team. There is no point in holding back the future just because of the mirage of possible postseason. It's simply not there. This is the same problem that has set this organization back in the past - over and over and over again. PLEASE recognize AGAIN this is not the year - AGAIN. Stick to the plan and shoot for 2008 and beyond and don't let the "freakshow" cloud your judgment and take away from the long-term vision.

I say break it down and make it yours, WayneK. Don't buy into the hype. This is not the team.



-Trade Milton at the deadline if you can find a sucker. If you can get the sucker to take on his entire salary (or at least 12M) ask for a fringe prospect in return.

-Trade Griffey to anyone that will take the remaining 37M. If not, let him ride out his career as a Red in LF. Hurt feelings? Too bad.

-Trade Kearns for pitching prospects. I say you have to decide between keeping Kearns or Dunn for the long-haul and I'll take Dunn. For all the talk of Kearns having this super-duper year, he's still not performing (offensively) at the same level as the SLUMPING Dunn. I think you can find a GM that overvalues him. Add to the fact that Dunn may be easy to negotiate with due to the traditional (low BA, he strikes out too much) barometer of a good hitter. WE know what we have with him and I say lock him up and use that subjective old-school BS to negotiate his contract to a manageable number.

-Trade Aurilia to a contender at the deadline for prospects. Tissues for Marty.

-Deal LaRue. Face it. Big pay days backfire with this club. We can't quit doing it (see Dunn) but we can face the facts that 2 years of LaRue at 9 Mil sounded cool last year, but it's not what this team needs now. Ross and Valentin have proven that they can get the job done at a fraction of the cost.

-Hats can hang around and bridge the gap of Dunn from LF to 1B. He's not costing much anyway. If he wants to hang around in 2007 as a back-up, for peanuts - fine.

-DFA QM yesterday and bring up Denorfia so he can get some meaningful AB's that will help him for 2007 and beyond. If not, deal him while he has value and all his hair.

-Keep Freel around as the super utility guy. He enables you to carry an extra pitcher or keep three catchers if that's where you get your jolly's. Regardless, Cincy loves scrappy players and he is one scrappy dude that has value. Keep him. We'll also need an extra OF'er after we trade Kearns.

-Flippity-flop Lopez and BP (SS and 2B) by 2007.

-Don't mess with EE. Keep him at 3B and let him stay a Red for the next 10 years. He'll win a few gold gloves and hit like a mad man every year. Just watch.

-I don't care what you do with Rick White, Chris Hammond, Mike Burns, Esteban Yan, or Joe Mays as long as you don't pay them anymore money to wear a Reds uniform. DFA them or ride their sorry arms out to get through the season. Whatever. Just keep in mind that there are a few arms down in Chattanooga that need some seasoning and like FCB says, "if you got 'em, smoke 'em." Eventually, we are going to need to bring up Shafer, Guevara, - hell, even Medlock and see what they can do. Who knows, hopefully at least one of them will take their lumps, stick around and be useful to us by 2008. Maybe even a future set-up man or closer.

-Keep Mercker around as the LH specialist. He can still break 90 and he his a good dude. Plus we both played at the same HS and I sometimes get tickets.

-Collect insurance for Paul Wilson's arm or pay him and give his 850k buyout for 2007. Yuck. I will try to remove his name from my memory forever.

-Ride out Arroyo through 2008 and see what he gets you before locking him up any longer. Why spoil a great thing by getting stuck in another un-tradable contract. Enjoy what we have with 3 years for 9 Mil and see what it gets us. If we are still poopy in 2008 and the two-year plan becomes three or four, he can be dealt at the deadline - at that time.

-Lock Harang up for 4 years. He's young and will be a FA by 2009. Pay him through 2009 or 2010 and take advantage of the fact that the guy is a big time under-appreciated and underrated by today's standards. In my opinion, he in a #1. Maybe not a bona fide Cy Young caliber #1, but a #1 nonetheless. Use the fact that he's not viewed as the typical #1 and his lack of the traditional bean counter stats such as wins to get him signed under market value. How about 4 years/16-20M or 3 years/12-15M. Same with Lopez. Lock him down for 4 years. Say 16-20M as well. We can ride Phillips and EE around cheap until we need to start worrying about arbitration. For that reason alone, these two should be untouchable. So, lock down Dunn, Harang, Lopez, dump the retreads and aging veterans, bring up some young arms that are ready to be tested at the ML level and start the whole process as soon as possible.


Again, I say break it down and make it yours, WayneK. Don't buy into the hype.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 12:10 PM
Originally Posted by Krusty
despite Dunn's success for hitting home runs when the game isn't on the lineYou mean when they actually challenge him with more than 1 or 2 pitches an at bat.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 12:15 PM
An analysis of this thread leads me to conclude what we really need to do is trade our best starters and acquire some really good relievers (they being more valuable than starters), that should solve the problem.

smith288
06-13-2006, 12:17 PM
-Keep Mercker around as the LH specialist. He can still break 90 and he his a good dude. Plus we both played at the same HS and I sometimes get tickets.


At least youre being honest.

smith288
06-13-2006, 12:19 PM
An analysis of this thread leads me to conclude what we really need to do is trade our best starters and acquire some really good relievers (they being more valuable than starters), that should solve the problem.
2nd place in the NL Central gets you a "trade everyone, bring up the AAA!" type of thread.

osuceltic
06-13-2006, 12:29 PM
You mean when they actually challenge him with more than 1 or 2 pitches an at bat.
I hate this argument. You think other guys don't get pitched to carefully? If he can only hit a grooved fastball, that's a problem. If it's that easy to neutralize him, then that's a problem. Especially when he's placed in a spot in the batting order where he is being counted on to drive in runs.

membengal
06-13-2006, 12:33 PM
despite Dunn's success for hitting home runs when the game isn't on the line,

Yeah, no more of those insignificant homeruns that break 0-0 ties. We only want homeruns in the bottom of the ninth. Every other homerun is simply meaningless fluff when singles would be much more polite and gentlemanly...

westofyou
06-13-2006, 12:39 PM
I hate this argument. You think other guys don't get pitched to carefully? If he can only hit a grooved fastball, that's a problem. If it's that easy to neutralize him, then that's a problem. Especially when he's placed in a spot in the batting order where he is being counted on to drive in runs.
Why? If you look at his splits he walks more per AB and hits less HR's per ab with Runners on vs the bases empty.

Doesn't it behoove the pitcher to try and sneak one by more with the bases empty than with runners on? hence more mistake pitches? More meaningless 1 rbi HR's?

There is a reason Dunn hits well when he leads off an inning (.273/.385/.659 - 44 ab's) he gets more balls to hit.

CincyReds2003
06-13-2006, 12:40 PM
As of now, the Kansas City Royals are the only team that is out of contention, with teams such as Pittsburgh, Minnesota, and Tampa Bay following shortly after. Being said, as much as I want moves made so that this team can get better, nobody is going to give up anything yet unless a trade is made that will help both teams. Hopefully the climate will change in the next few weeks where we can get someone without giving up a key player that could hurt us later. I guess the only short term help we have is the minors, but I hope we don't ruin a player's progress in the process. Narron obviously doesn't have any confidence in his bullpen since it seems like he is flipping a coin each time, when he can't go to Weathers or Coffey, and with some of the comments that he has made, I am wondering if its a cry for help to Cast and Krivsky, as in if you expect us to contend, then we are going to need help in the pen. But at the same time, I can see Cast and Krivsky addressing this, while telling Narron that the lack of fundamentals are killing this team as well. Hopefully things will change and we will be there in October, but this team is very reminiscent of the 2003 Bengals(I know different sport) where they improved the record, their style of play, but still need to address the weaknesses that have plagued the club for years.

pedro
06-13-2006, 12:51 PM
I don't know about that. Seems Krivsky values defense highly. And despite Dunn's success for hitting home runs when the game isn't on the line, his defense in LF has everyone kicking the dog.

As I said, Dunn is the commodity that can net the most in return.

You know Krusty, that whole meaningless HR argument is garbage. If you cared to go back and check the game logs for all of last year and this year you would see for yourself. Very few of Dunn's HR's over the last two years have come in games that were already decided.

I can't find the post where I did the reseach on this one and I'm not going to do every time someone parrots this tired misinformation but really check it out for yourself, I think you'd be surprised.

As for Dunn's defense? Yeah it sucks.

Crash Davis
06-13-2006, 12:55 PM
You mean when they actually challenge him with more than 1 or 2 pitches an at bat.

But that's the nature of hitting with the game on the line, right? In those situations, any hitter is only going to see 1 or 2 good pitches in an at bat. That's why there have been some very knowledgable baseball people saying for years that Adam Dunn would help himself and his team by being more aggressive within the strike zone earlier in the count in high tension situations. You just can't let good strikes go by early in the count while waiting for the kill pitch. Much more often than not in those situations, it's never coming.

I love Adam Dunn as much as the next guy, but he can be an incredibly frustrating player to watch in late and tight moments. Despite the arguments I've seen that Adam Dunn is the first baseball player in history who doesn't need to think situationally to help his team win, he can become a better player by making a few adjustments in certain situations.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 01:14 PM
I love Adam Dunn as much as the next guy, but he can be an incredibly frustrating player to watch in late and tight momentsyep, so true.. and that's where age hopefully will come in to play.

KoryMac5
06-13-2006, 01:16 PM
I think we are all frustrated with the lack of bullpen consistency. To the extent where we would all like to see Wayne K make a move yesterday. Clubs know this and will be asking for the moon for guys like Roberto Hernandez and Joe Borowski. I would like to see Wayne give some young arms a shot at stopping the bleeding without parting with Dunn. The Reds have two arms in AAA Salmon who has been mentioned several times on RedsZone and Standridge. I know we cringe when we hear his name but the guy has been lights out at AAA. I'd much rather give them a shot than keep trotting out what we have been seeing every night.

CTA513
06-13-2006, 01:18 PM
I would hope that the Reds would try out the guys in the minors before going trade crazy for bullpen arms.

:dunno:

flyer85
06-13-2006, 01:48 PM
yep, so true.. and that's where age hopefully will come in to play.nah, he's 26, it's all downhill from here.

Javy Pornstache
06-13-2006, 02:28 PM
Since this comes up all the time, regarding Adam Dunn's home runs and when they are hit, here's a list of the situations where he's hit his home runs thus far this season, courtesy of McAlister's blog, source of original info posting:

Record when Dunn homers: 11-9 (he has had one two-homer game)

What was the score when he homered?:
Hr's when Reds were ahead: 8
#runs ahead when he homered: 1,1,1,3,3,3,7,7
Hr's when Red were behind: 9
#runs behind when he homered: 1,1,2,2,2,3,4,4,7
Hr's when game was tied: 4

What did his homer do?:
Hr's that tied the game: 2
Hr's that gave them the lead: 5
Hr's that cut into the deficit: 6
Hr's that increased the lead: 8

Hr's by inning:
1st: 4
2nd: 3
3rd: 1
4th: 2
5th: 2
6th: 5
7th: 2
8th: 2
9th: 0

osuceltic
06-13-2006, 02:37 PM
yep, so true.. and that's where age hopefully will come in to play.
He's in his sixth season. He's actually getting worse defensively and his batting average (cue canned response) and strikeouts are at best static. Youth isn't an excuse anymore. He should be at his absolute peak right now.

I've posted before what I've been told about his work ethic. When you look at everything, I don't see any reason to expect him to suddenly get it. He is what he is. That's pretty good. Good enough for some, not for others.

savafan
06-13-2006, 02:46 PM
Since this comes up all the time, regarding Adam Dunn's home runs and when they are hit, here's a list of the situations where he's hit his home runs thus far this season, courtesy of McAlister's blog, source of original info posting:

Record when Dunn homers: 11-9 (he has had one two-homer game)

What was the score when he homered?:
Hr's when Reds were ahead: 8
#runs ahead when he homered: 1,1,1,3,3,3,7,7
Hr's when Red were behind: 9
#runs behind when he homered: 1,1,2,2,2,3,4,4,7
Hr's when game was tied: 4

What did his homer do?:
Hr's that tied the game: 2
Hr's that gave them the lead: 5
Hr's that cut into the deficit: 6
Hr's that increased the lead: 8

Hr's by inning:
1st: 4
2nd: 3
3rd: 1
4th: 2
5th: 2
6th: 5
7th: 2
8th: 2
9th: 0


So, Dunn homers more when it matters than when it doesn't.

Javy Pornstache
06-13-2006, 02:47 PM
So, Dunn homers more when it matters than when it doesn't.

In a word.....yup.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 02:53 PM
In a word.....yup.
Email Lance and see if someone can do career stats on that one.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 02:55 PM
He's in his sixth season. He's actually getting worse defensively and his batting average (cue canned response) and strikeouts are at best static. Youth isn't an excuse anymore. He should be at his absolute peak right now.

I've posted before what I've been told about his work ethic. When you look at everything, I don't see any reason to expect him to suddenly get it. He is what he is. That's pretty good. Good enough for some, not for others.Let's see that Derrek Lee fellow had his breakout season at age 29(and he still only drove in 107 last year, no too good). Frank Howard had his breakout season at 31. Giving up on guys early is not a smart thing to do.

BTW, Lee showed little improvement in his 24-28 seasons until his breakout lat year.

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 02:57 PM
but only 6hr out of 54 AB with RISP and it sure seems like his homeruns are too little too late or piling it on. Why would so many people feel that way. We watch the games. 2 outs a guy on third I would bet a paycheck Dunn either strikes out or walks. YUCK!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me walks are good, not out of the 4 hole hitter who always go to 3-2 count. If there is a guy on third the 4 hole is supposed to knock him in, period.

smith288
06-13-2006, 03:01 PM
but only 6hr out of 54 AB with RISP and it sure seems like his homeruns are too little too late or piling it on. Why would so many people feel that way. We watch the games. 2 outs a guy on third I would bet a paycheck Dunn either strikes out or walks. YUCK!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me walks are good, not out of the 4 hole hitter who always go to 3-2 count. If there is a guy on third the 4 hole is supposed to knock him in, period.
A walk is good.

membengal
06-13-2006, 03:02 PM
BigJohn, it's true.

I don't watch the games.

I just come on here and type random observations after pouring over spread sheets for seven hours or so.

One of these years, I think I will take this sage advice and watch a game. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my approach, much appreciated...

smith288
06-13-2006, 03:06 PM
BigJohn, it's true.

I don't watch the games.

I just come on here and type random observations after pouring over spread sheets for seven hours or so.

One of these years, I think I will take this sage advice and watch a game. Thanks for pointing out the flaw in my approach, much appreciated...
You should...the JTM and Red Roof Inn commercials are fantastic! :thumbup:

johngalt
06-13-2006, 03:07 PM
but only 6hr out of 54 AB with RISP and it sure seems like his homeruns are too little too late or piling it on. Why would so many people feel that way. We watch the games. 2 outs a guy on third I would bet a paycheck Dunn either strikes out or walks. YUCK!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me walks are good, not out of the 4 hole hitter who always go to 3-2 count. If there is a guy on third the 4 hole is supposed to knock him in, period.

That's the inherent issue though. Everyone wants to see Dunn as a cleanup hitter because he's 6-6, 275 pounds and hits home runs. Because of his size, he should be an "RBI guy" who hits 40 homers and drives in 125 RBIs and tries to make contact as much as possible.

The reality is, that is not Adam Dunn. It's probably not going to be Adam Dunn. What people need to realize is that doesn't make him a disappointment as a player, it just makes him atypical as a hitter.

Appreciate Dunn for what he is and use him correctly, and he will be even more of an offensive force.

Keep trying to force him into being the stereotypical No. 4 hitter and you're going to miss out on one of the most productive Reds hitters of all-time.

membengal
06-13-2006, 03:07 PM
You should...the JTM and Red Roof Inn commercials are fantastic! :thumbup:

I am afraid I am not much of a... multitasker.

Watching would take too much time away from my spreadsheets...

pedro
06-13-2006, 03:09 PM
I think we need some more players who only hit 6 HR's in 54 ab's.

johngalt
06-13-2006, 03:11 PM
but only 6hr out of 54 AB with RISP and it sure seems like his homeruns are too little too late or piling it on. Why would so many people feel that way. We watch the games. 2 outs a guy on third I would bet a paycheck Dunn either strikes out or walks. YUCK!!!!!!!!! Don't tell me walks are good, not out of the 4 hole hitter who always go to 3-2 count. If there is a guy on third the 4 hole is supposed to knock him in, period.

One other thing...

6 homers in 54 ABs with runners in scoring position

You realize that equates to roughly 50 over the course of 500 ABs, right? Might not be a bad season.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Like I said, the rub is that people want Dunn to be something that he is not at the moment. Instead of focusing on his strengths, which are considerable, they focus on his weaknesses. They have constructed a mythical Dunn in their mind and grow frustrated when the real Dunn doesn't measure up. So in their minds he in a hinderance, not an asset.

BTW, look at how Corey Patterson is "thriving" even though he is still the same player he was in Chicago. It was just the O's are happy to let Patterson be himself instead of trying to transform him into something he is not (which is what the Cubs tried).

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Well then act like it. Too many times we have seen the big Dunkey CHOKE! If just one time he would knock in some runners in a pressure situation people wouldn't say he can't hit in the clutch For god sake boys he is hitting 180 with men on base and 148 with RISP! I mean that is not what he is getting 7.5 million to do is it? Tell me you guys are smarter than that. He also is a JOKE in the field, you do agree with that I think. Why does everyone act like he is some kind of great hitter? He is not. Oh yeah he walks alot, then damn near falls down trying to get around the bases.

osuceltic
06-13-2006, 03:13 PM
Let's see that Derrek Lee fellow had his breakout season at age 29(and he still only drove in 107 last year, no too good). Frank Howard had his breakout season at 31. Giving up on guys early is not a smart thing to do.

BTW, Lee showed little improvement in his 24-28 seasons until his breakout lat year.
Sure there are a few examples, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule. You might say they are -- dare I say it -- statistically irrelevant. Just like those two sacrifice flies the Cubs came up with yesterday in that one-run game.

I'd also be interested in comparing the work ethics of the players you mentioned compared to Dunn.

Personally, I'm not giving up on Duun. But I am in favor of using him to improve the team through a trade. We've been over reasons for that many times.

smith288
06-13-2006, 03:15 PM
Well then act like it. Too many times we have seen the big Dunkey CHOKE! If just one time he would knock in some runners in a pressure situation people wouldn't say he can't hit in the clutch For god sake boys he is hitting 180 with men on base and 148 with RISP! I mean that is not what he is getting 7.5 million to do is it? Tell me you guys are smarter than that. He also is a JOKE in the field, you do agree with that I think. Why does everyone act like he is some kind of great hitter? He is not. Oh yeah he walks alot, then damn near falls down trying to get around the bases.
Boy... You are begging for an education.

flyer85
06-13-2006, 03:16 PM
Sure there are a few examples, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule. There are few examples of players Dunns size(6'6", 250+) in MLB history. In most sports large players tend to develop more slowly than their smaller counterparts. In baseball the 6'7" 250+ Howard is probably the best direct comp to Dunn.

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 03:17 PM
yeah, right. Walks are good and who cares about defense?

flyer85
06-13-2006, 03:18 PM
Boy... You are begging for an education.I somehow doubt that is what he is begging for. He seems like a creature with brightly colored hair that could use a trim.

dabvu2498
06-13-2006, 03:19 PM
This thread is turning toward being closed also.

pedro
06-13-2006, 03:20 PM
yeah, right. Walks are good and who cares about defense?

I'd much prefer outs too. Don't want anyone scoring "cheap" runs by getting on base all the time. Real "men" hit singles.

westofyou
06-13-2006, 03:21 PM
I'd also be interested in comparing the work ethics of the players you mentioned compared to Dunn.What do any of us know about his work habits?

Other than innuendo?

membengal
06-13-2006, 03:21 PM
This thread is turning toward being closed also.

Wait! Not yet! I am hoping someone could point me to one of these "games" I am supposed to be "watching"...

westofyou
06-13-2006, 03:22 PM
yeah, right. Walks are good and who cares about defense?Outs are cool, leftfield easily the most important defensive position on the field, by far.

membengal
06-13-2006, 03:23 PM
What do any of us know about his work habits?

Other than innuendo?

That would be the super secret "work habit zone rating"...apparently Dunn is a -129 but players like Aurilia are a +358. I would tell you more, but I would have to kill you, and that wouldn't be good for either of us.

BigJohn
06-13-2006, 03:23 PM
I am a 44 year old man who has been watching the Reds for over 30 years and take my kids to the park probably ten times a year. I am just sick of hearing how good Dunn is. He is a lazy, loafing, pitiful defense playing, player that can hit mammoth home runs when they really don't matter no matter what anyone on here says. He is over paid and doesn't give back a thing to the community.

membengal
06-13-2006, 03:24 PM
I am a 44 year old man who has been watching the Reds for over 30 years and take my kids to the park probably ten times a year. I am just sick of hearing how good Dunn is. He is a lazy, loafing, pitiful defense playing, player that can hit mammoth home runs when they really don't matter no matter what anyone on here says. He is over paid and doesn't give back a thing to the community.

Outstanding. Wow. And, wow.

pedro
06-13-2006, 03:26 PM
I am a 44 year old man who has been watching the Reds for over 30 years and take my kids to the park probably ten times a year. I am just sick of hearing how good Dunn is. He is a lazy, loafing, pitiful defense playing, player that can hit mammoth home runs when they really don't matter no matter what anyone on here says. He is over paid and doesn't give back a thing to the community.

That's all I needed to hear. You sure changed my mind with that brilliant analysis. Thanks!

westofyou
06-13-2006, 03:26 PM
I am a 44 year old man who has been watching the Reds for over 30 years and take my kids to the park probably ten times a year. I am just sick of hearing how good Dunn is. He is a lazy, loafing, pitiful defense playing, player that can hit mammoth home runs when they really don't matter no matter what anyone on here says. He is over paid and doesn't give back a thing to the community.
Well then that ends that.

zombie-a-go-go
06-13-2006, 03:26 PM
Well then that ends that.

No, this does.