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OnBaseMachine
06-14-2006, 08:09 AM
re: shift...George, if it were only that easy...

Foster believes Griffey should give up playing center field
By Ron Jackson

Staff Writer

MIAMISBURG | Former Cincinnati Reds great George Foster is not pleased with some players on his former team or the team in general. His critical comments were specifically aimed at Adam Dunn and Ken Griffey Jr., on Tuesday while appearing at the "Extra Innings" baseball and softball training center.

His appearance benefitted Building Bridges and the George Foster Home for at-risk juveniles.

The five-time All-Star and 1977 National League MVP was asked if Griffey should move from center field to one of the corner outfield positions or first base.

"I would move him to first base," Foster said. "I was with Ken Sr. recently and I know he's discussed it with Junior, but it's an ego thing with him and he doesn't want to go to left or right. That would save his legs, but he's out to prove something; that he can win another Gold Glove in center.

"But there's lot of wear and tear involved with playing center or shortstop. They're demanding positions along with catcher. Junior's a player and he can play the angles and make the adjustment to either corner outfield or first base. As long as you have Junior at first, for instance, you don't need an offensive player in center. It would prolong Junior's career."

Foster helped to power the Big Red Machine teams of the 1970s. He said players were unselfish in that era.

"The beauty of the Big Red Machine was the chemistry," Foster said. "Players made switches for the good of the team or took extra batting practice. You don't see that in today's game as much. Junior and Adam Dunn should take extra BP to learn to break the defensive shift they face."

On the Reds' chances in '06: "I just don't know if they have the thoroughbreds, the stamina, to stay in the race when July comes. I worry they didn't work hard enough in March and April to prepare themselves to stay in the race."

Foster also feels the game needs to start giving back to the fans and needs a more stringent steroids policy.

"Now you have growth hormones to worry about," Foster said. "It's like chess or checkers and the players are trying to stay a step ahead of the program. It isn't even anymore. The performance enhancers increase the hand-eye coordination — the bat speed — so much that it is unbelievable. More so than the noticeable size."

Foster, 57, became a star after May 3, 1975 when manager Sparky Anderson moved Pete Rose to third base, opening up a spot in left for Foster, giving Ken Griffey Sr., a full-time job in right field and revving up the Big Red Machine. The Reds dominated, winning the World Series in '75 and '76. In 1977, Foster hit 52 home runs when it meant something and drove in 149 runs. He was the only major-leaguer to clout more than 50 homers in a season from 1965-90.

"We started dominating people and intimidating teams after that move," Foster said.

Foster lives in Greenwich, Conn., and still trains and instructs youngsters of all abilities at youth camps and batting cages. He will give his annual clinic at North Riverdale Little League's Fenner Fields today from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0614foster2.html

macro
06-14-2006, 08:23 AM
First of all, I was reading the article to see who Foster was...

:D

Chip R
06-14-2006, 09:01 AM
Hmmmmm, very interesting. First Eric Davis just comes out of the blue and says Jr. should switch positions now not a day later George Foster says basically the same thing. Seems like the Reds are trying to indirectly influence Jr. into switching positions.

REDREAD
06-14-2006, 09:09 AM
I was going to say the same thing macro :) .. I wonder if Dunn knows who this Foster guy is :lol:

traderumor
06-14-2006, 09:13 AM
That would be an interesting tangle--Dunn and Foster-- not sure who I'd put my money on there.

It does look like more than a coincidence. Now, if the solution for CF is getting McCracken more ABs...

edabbs44
06-14-2006, 09:26 AM
RedsZone was on the case before ED and Foster...:D

flyer85
06-14-2006, 09:41 AM
The funny thing about Foster is that he had a reputation for not being a hard worker (I have no idea if it was true, I remember the perception was there) when with the Reds. He also took a lot of heat when he proclaimed that he was too valuable to the team to be diving for baseballs in the outfield and would no longer attempt any diving catches. Try to imagine the reaction if Jr or especially Dunn tried that one.

I have no idea why the stories are coming up all of sudden but I doubt Jr is listening. I guess maybe it is a plot hatched by the 2 Angry Guys.

cumberlandreds
06-14-2006, 09:47 AM
I always felt like Foster didn't really try to be a good LF when he played. When he first started out he seemed pretty good. Just look at the play he made in game six of the '75 WS. But he didn't continue to work to get better and his skills diminished. I think there is a lot of truth to what Foster has said but he needs to think back to his own playing days and what he did before he criticizes todays players.

15fan
06-14-2006, 09:56 AM
His own playing days include 1977 when he was a one man wrecking crew:

197 H, 124 R, 31 2B, 2 3B, 52 HRs, 149 RBI and a .631 SLG.

And that was in an era before bandbox ballparks, games in Denver, and steroids.

Junior's career numbers obviously trump Foster's, but Foster's accomplishments should at least buy him 20 or 30 seconds of Junior's time.

And while Dunn has put up big numbers thus far in his career, he's got a ways to go to match George's single season or career numbers.

George is also putting his thoughts out there with something that neither Junior or Dunn have at this point: Retrospect.

Personally, I'd give some thought to what George had to say.

But I'll also admit that I'm slightly biased. ;)

flyer85
06-14-2006, 10:00 AM
And Fosters best 3 years(76-78) as a player were at the age of 27/28/29. His numbers really fell off after age 30.

M2
06-14-2006, 10:33 AM
Hmmmmm, very interesting. First Eric Davis just comes out of the blue and says Jr. should switch positions now not a day later George Foster says basically the same thing. Seems like the Reds are trying to indirectly influence Jr. into switching positions.

We'll know the fix is in if Barry Larkin sounds off on it.

Chip R
06-14-2006, 10:36 AM
We'll know the fix is in if Barry Larkin sounds off on it.

I'm just waiting for Kal Daniels' opinion. ;)

Krusty
06-14-2006, 10:42 AM
If Junior isn't going to listen to the advice of his dad, then who will he listen to? Should make things interesting this offseason if Krivsky tells Junior he will be making a position shift.

registerthis
06-14-2006, 10:43 AM
First of all, I was reading the article to see who Foster was...

:D

LOL :laugh:

smith288
06-14-2006, 10:43 AM
If Griffey is trying to win a gold glove again, it may be his year then he can go to first. Edmond is sucking it up over at 1B so the only other popular choice for writers is Griffey.

registerthis
06-14-2006, 10:45 AM
And that was in an era before (steroids).

I don't know about that.

registerthis
06-14-2006, 10:45 AM
I'm just waiting for Kal Daniels' opinion. ;)

I'm not making my mind up until I hear from Billy Hatcher.

smith288
06-14-2006, 10:48 AM
I'm not making my mind up until I hear from Billy Hatcher.
Hatcher? What about Billy Bates?!?!

RFS62
06-14-2006, 10:53 AM
Hatcher? What about Billy Bates?!?!


Billy Bates?

What about Billy Ray Cyrus?!?!?!

Heath
06-14-2006, 10:54 AM
I'm not making my mind up until I hear from Billy Hatcher.

I'm interested in Gary Redus' opinion.

Anyway, I think Foster has some credence in his own experience. He played every OF position until he settled in LF. He wasn't hurt except a spell in '79. He knows how a switch could affect performance.

Anyone catch a picture of Foster? Dude still looks like he could hit 25-30 HR a year.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-14-2006, 11:02 AM
Hmmmmm, very interesting. First Eric Davis just comes out of the blue and says Jr. should switch positions now not a day later George Foster says basically the same thing. Seems like the Reds are trying to indirectly influence Jr. into switching positions.


I agree. Pretty sneaky of them and shows definite lack of big ones.

Who is this George Foster guy anyway? :)

Puffy
06-14-2006, 11:09 AM
So, the most important thing I think that comes out of that article is that Senior and Junior have discussed the issue of Junior moving. It appears Senior thinks he should consider moving, which means its only a matter of time cause we know the influence Senior has.

I'd say Spring Training next year Junior agrees to the shift to left field. If I were Krivsky I would help make that move easier by inquiring about Torii Hunter - Junior has said that before if someone could perform better in Center he would move, and Hunter would definitely qualify.....

traderumor
06-14-2006, 11:11 AM
The other possibility other than a conspiracy theory is that everyone in the baseball world is asking the question and rightly so, and if you can call up a few ex-Reds and get them to weigh in on the issue, it makes great print.

If it is truly about another gold glove, that is an individual accomplishment that should pale in comparison to doing what is right for the team. I would be saddened if that is indeed what this is all about.

M2
06-14-2006, 11:14 AM
Jr.'s not getting another Gold Glove. He might as well refuse to move until he wins the Miss America pageant.

BuckeyeRedleg
06-14-2006, 11:15 AM
So, the most important thing I think that comes out of that article is that Senior and Junior have discussed the issue of Junior moving. It appears Senior thinks he should consider moving, which means its only a matter of time cause we know the influence Senior has.

I'd say Spring Training next year Junior agrees to the shift to left field. If I were Krivsky I would help make that move easier by inquiring about Torii Hunter - Junior has said that before if someone could perform better in Center he would move, and Hunter would definitely qualify.....

This gives Dunn some time to take over 1B permanently for 2007 and our favorite Moneyballer, Scott Hatteberg can be re-signed to back him up.

Joey Votto can then be placed on the trading block or moved to OF.

My plan is slowly starting to come together. :evil:

traderumor
06-14-2006, 11:26 AM
Jr.'s not getting another Gold Glove. He might as well refuse to move until he wins the Miss America pageant.
But...but...but didn't you see those diving catches, the crashes into walls...the bloop hits that fall...the balls bouncing off the warning track...

princeton
06-14-2006, 11:30 AM
McCoy headline on Thursday:

Paul Householder says Kearns should stop trying to hit the ball so well

Chip R
06-14-2006, 11:39 AM
I agree. Pretty sneaky of them and shows definite lack of big ones.


Well, it's somewhat sneaky but I wouldn't say it lacks big ones. I would think they brought up the subject with him before. In January, Kullman said they had talked about it - now I don't know if "they" involved Jr. but he did say they talked about it. You saw how he reacted - or should I say overreacted - when the Angry Guys suggested he move. You think he took it any better when the front office people asked him if he'd consider it? Using former Reds greats to get their point of view across is pretty smart. Perhaps they feel if guys Jr. respects think he should move for health and longevity reasons, he would take it better.

registerthis
06-14-2006, 11:43 AM
McCoy headline on Thursday:

Paul Householder says Kearns should stop trying to hit the ball so well

I heard Larry Bittner chimed in on that story, too, but McCoy chose to exclude him.

harangatang
06-14-2006, 12:18 PM
Using former Reds greats to get their point of view across is pretty smart. Isn't the Reds motto "The Power of Tradition"?

Johnny Footstool
06-14-2006, 12:27 PM
I heard Larry Bittner chimed in on that story, too, but McCoy chose to exclude him.

Larry Biitner's comments included "Hi, I'm Larry Biitner. I used to play for the Reds, too. No, really, I have my baseball card right here. You want me to sign it? No? Okay. You wanna hang out for a while? No? Okay. You got any spare change?"

pedro
06-14-2006, 12:52 PM
McCoy headline on Thursday:

Paul Householder says Kearns should stop trying to hit the ball so well

Looks like Kearns has been taking that advice.

BCubb2003
06-14-2006, 12:55 PM
What would Tracy Jones do?

Redsland
06-14-2006, 01:04 PM
What would Tracy Jones do?
Play right field after Dave Parker moved to first base for him?

;)

pedro
06-14-2006, 01:05 PM
What would Tracy Jones do?

you mean WWTJD?

savafan
06-14-2006, 01:07 PM
I was talking to Motorboat Jones and Skeeter Barnes last night at the bar, and they basically said the same thing.

traderumor
06-14-2006, 02:12 PM
Well, it's somewhat sneaky but I wouldn't say it lacks big ones. I would think they brought up the subject with him before. In January, Kullman said they had talked about it - now I don't know if "they" involved Jr. but he did say they talked about it. You saw how he reacted - or should I say overreacted - when the Angry Guys suggested he move. You think he took it any better when the front office people asked him if he'd consider it? Using former Reds greats to get their point of view across is pretty smart. Perhaps they feel if guys Jr. respects think he should move for health and longevity reasons, he would take it better.I was gonna say something like that. Now I don't have to :thumbup:

KronoRed
06-14-2006, 04:13 PM
I was going to say the same thing macro :) .. I wonder if Dunn knows who this Foster guy is :lol:
He should since a common slam on Dunn is "he's no George Foster" :devil:

KronoRed
06-14-2006, 04:13 PM
Jr.'s not getting another Gold Glove. He might as well refuse to move until he wins the Miss America pageant.
He is kind of cute :D

Tony Cloninger
06-15-2006, 12:35 AM
Ken Henderson can give JR tips on how NOT to get injured and end up having the whirpool named after you.

Mike Lum can talk to Dunn about getting no respect for his good work.

Merv Rettenmund can clinic Kearns on how your batting skills can mysteriously disappear by age 26-28.

VR
06-15-2006, 12:46 AM
Has German Barranca been consulted?

KronoRed
06-15-2006, 01:51 AM
What would Tracy Jones do?
Play the game then talk about it for 20 years :evil:

Chip R
06-15-2006, 09:48 AM
Has German Barranca been consulted?

This is starting to get like Mike de la Hoz' greatest posts. :D

Heath
06-15-2006, 10:06 AM
This is starting to get like Mike de la Hoz' greatest posts. :D

Not until you mention Fast Eddie Milner, Duane Walker, & Max Venable all in a sentence.

:D

In the '71 season, Angel Bravo was traded for the journeyman OF Al Ferrara. After Ferrara dropped a routine flyball, Ferrara after the game joked that "what do you expect for a guy who got traded for Angel Bravo".

Don't also forget (if you even remember) the '71 season also had an OF included Buddy Bradford. Just think Tracy Jones circa 1971.

GAC
06-15-2006, 10:40 AM
I don't know if I value George's opinion here....

the butthead just tried to steal 2B in game 1 of the 75 WS with 0 outs and Giffey's Dad at the plate. He was thrown out by a mile (had 2 steals all year).

Griffey Sr then doubled. Figures.

Sounds to me like he has it in for the Griffey family. ;)

Heath
06-15-2006, 10:42 AM
I don't know if I value George's opinion here....

the butthead just tried to steal 2B in game 1 of the 75 WS with 0 outs and Giffey's Dad at the plate. He was thrown out by a mile (had 2 steals all year).

Griffey Sr then doubled. Figures.

Sounds to me like he has it in for the Griffey family. ;)

are they showing those commerical free?

GAC
06-15-2006, 11:50 AM
are they showing those commerical free?

The DVD has none of the commercials.

But that would make it more enjoyable maybe -seeing all those old commercials. ;)

gm
06-15-2006, 12:51 PM
Weren't Foster and Davis invited to spring training? How is it that Dunn doesn't know them? Methinks Adam was applying the needle to Eric the Red

BCubb2003
06-15-2006, 01:04 PM
From a spring training chat at MLB:

puffingod: Was there ever any pressure wearing Eric Davis' No. 44 in Cincinnati?

Dunn: I wouldn't say pressure. But I understand he was one of the greatest Reds to play the game. I was fortunate when I came up, I got to play against him. I just have to try and represent his number.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060306&content_id=1336740&vkey=spt2006news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Tony Cloninger
06-16-2006, 11:19 PM
I have a DVD of the 1975 All-Star game (and several football games from 1971 through 1991) Watching those old commercials...... Like when they introduced the Twin Blade shaver..... Joe Garigiola touting the new Plymouth/Dodge line for 1975... the year after the Cuda's and Challenger's were done..... those are funny.

The Marlboro Man commercials in 1971 (they were banned from TV after that year)... "Taste the high country"... AND Lung Cancer!

The Walt Garrison ...... just a dip will do.

Those Miller Lite commercials....... they really brought back memories. Very Funny stuff.

wheels
06-17-2006, 09:20 AM
Larry Biitner's comments included "Hi, I'm Larry Biitner. I used to play for the Reds, too. No, really, I have my baseball card right here. You want me to sign it? No? Okay. You wanna hang out for a while? No? Okay. You got any spare change?"

I love that 82 or 83 Topps card, where Biitner seems to be giving some sort of interview.

I always wondered who in heck wanted to interview him.