What will it take to get EZ a W?

[griffeyfreak4]

Elizardo has been pitching phenominally this whole year, and he has only let up more than 3 runs on two occasions (and one of them 7R only 1ER). All the rest have been Quality Starts. This kid is pitching great, and he is only getting better. We need to give him some wins!

If only stupid Adam Dunn had hit that home run earlier, EZ would be 3-5! :evil:

[RedsManRick]

Fewer wins = lower arb number down the road. I'll take 20 QS and a 6-10 record.

[harangatang]

Fewer wins = lower arb number down the road. I'll take 20 QS and a 6-10 record.The cheaper the better. It could also allow the Reds to have more payroll flexibility down the road.

[TeamBoone]

Awwww come on you guys.

This thread isn't about the money; it's about Elizardo!

[harangatang]

Awwww come on you guys.

This thread isn't about the money; it's about Elizardo!If they keep him in a Reds uniform I think it would be great, even better at a cheap price. Imagine a core of the rotation of Arroyo, Harang, and Ramirez. Yikes, that's pretty damn good and if we get a bargain it gives more money so we can keep Harang long term too. Ramirez strikes me as an overacheiver at this point but I see no reason why he couldn't be a league average starter for many years in a Reds uniform. He did pitch one hell of a game today though and he has really gotten his act together.

[Jr's Boy]

I'm surprised no one posted a real Lizard pic.....yet.

[remdog]

Seems like every year there's one pitcher that pitches far better than his W/L record and one that pitches far worse. Guess this is just the Lizard's year. (shrug)

Rem

[reds44]

Elizardo has been amazing! I would just tell him don't look at his W-L and keep his ERA low.

However if we scored some runs for him he would be a ROY canidate.

[Highlifeman21]

Maybe it's just me and I hope to not catch too much crap about this, but I'm just not overly sold or excited about Ramirez.

I almost didn't want to watch the game today b/c he was on the mound, that's how I feel about him.

I'd love to see him establish himself, but at best I only see him as a #3 pitcher.

[saboforthird]

Seems like every year there's one pitcher that pitches far better than his W/L record and one that pitches far worse. Guess this is just the Lizard's year. (shrug)

Rem

Would this also apply to closers? :laugh:

[reds44]

I almost didn't want to watch the game today b/c he was on the mound, that's how I feel about him.


:confused:

Can't be comfortable with the pitcher that has a 3.5 ERA on the mound?

[TeamBoone]

Maybe it's just me and I hope to not catch too much crap about this, but I'm just not overly sold or excited about Ramirez.

I almost didn't want to watch the game today b/c he was on the mound, that's how I feel about him.

I'd love to see him establish himself, but at best I only see him as a #3 pitcher.

How can you not be excited for this 23-year-old guy with so much potential?

[jimbo]

Maybe it's just me and I hope to not catch too much crap about this, but I'm just not overly sold or excited about Ramirez.

I almost didn't want to watch the game today b/c he was on the mound, that's how I feel about him.

I'd love to see him establish himself, but at best I only see him as a #3 pitcher.

I feel just the opposite. EZ has become one of my favorite Reds pitcher to watch. I become more and more impressed by his poise and knowledge of his position. I haven't been this excited about a pitcher that this organization has brought up from the minors in a long time. He has been Mr. Consistancy.

I would say 8 shutout innings with 10 K's today, along with a 3.44 ERA after 9 starts, is a good beginning at establishing himself.

[UC_Ken]

To answer the original question, with the run support that EZ has gotten he needs to drive in some runs himself if he wants to pick up wins.

[KronoRed]

How can you not be excited for this 23-year-old guy with so much potential?
Minor league numbers and stuff.

We'll see :)

[reds44]

One of the most impressive things about EZ is his consistency. Normally young players are inconsistent, but not the E-Train.

In his 9 starts this year, here are his ER totals:
2
3
1
2
3
4
2
3
0

In those 9 starts he has only given up more then 3 ER once, and has 6 QS. He is 3rd on the team in ERA (Arroyo, Coffey) and has a 41/15 SO to BB ratio. In his nice starts he has pitched 54 innings, or 6.0 IP per start.

[paulrichjr]

Folks we have a starting staff with this guy! Amazing. I remember when Jimmy Haynes was our ace. Paul Wilson was our number 1. We now have 4 solid starters and to be honest Claussen has pitched very well as a number 5. Now on to the bullpen.

[remdog]

I'd love to see him establish himself, but at best I only see him as a #3 pitcher.

Every team needs a #3 starter. (shrug) Given some of the ones we've struggled with over the last few years I'd be happy with the Lizard if he can continue to pitch as consistantly as he has this year.

Rem

[jimbo]

I remember when Jimmy Haynes was our ace.

Please, make the bad man go away!!! :help:

[CrackerJack]

Yeah what's wrong with a #3 starter? Or a #4 or #5?

Low rotation stability has been needed here for a long time. The Reds can control him for several years, like Arroyo and Harang hopefully, and do just that.

I don't think anyone's calling him the next ace - but when your #5 guy can give you a start like that, and be consistent every other time out, it's all good. Ecspecially if he's only 23 years old.

[Highlifeman21]

:confused:

Can't be comfortable with the pitcher that has a 3.5 ERA on the mound?

I got comfortable with Brandon Claussen circa 2005 with his 4.21 ERA and this year I almost feel betrayed by him.

This year, we have Elizardo Ramirez with a 3.44 ERA in 55 IP and I'm supposed to not be skeptical? I feel for the kid. He has been the poster child for bad luck and lack of run support, but I'm not ready to make him the 2nd coming of Jose Rijo. 92 career IP is just WAY too small of a sample size for me to feel comfortable with him.


How can you not be excited for this 23-year-old guy with so much potential?

Krono touched upon this and summed up my feelings. Elizardo didn't exactly light up the minors and I've always had the feeling that he was the best of the worst, in terms of SP that were "ready" for a promotion, for lack of better adjective. IIRC, when we got him from Philly, he was at best the 3rd arm prospect behind Floyd and Hamels, and I don't remember him being that highly thought of when we obtained him compared to what we had in the minors at the time.

I would love to see Elizardo continue to have success and emerge as our clear cut #3, but as I've previously stated, I think I'm not crazy to be skeptical after 55 IP this year.

[OldRightHander]

He is one of the most enjoyable pitchers to watch throw when he's going good. His mechanics are so effortless it's almost a thing of beauty. Yeah, more run support would be nice, but even when he doesn't get credited with the win, he will give the team a good chance to win. You can't expect any more out of a starter than what he's been giving us lately.

[jimbo]

He has been the poster child for bad luck and lack of run support, but I'm not ready to make him the 2nd coming of Jose Rijo.

I don't think anyone is making him up as the next Jose Rijo, I'm certainly not. I just feel that EZ has as good a shot of being a good major league pitcher as any pitcher that the Reds have brought up in a long time. His poise and knowledge of how to pitch for his age is exceptional. Throw in good mechanics, the ability to locate his pitches and change speeds, and good control and you have a very nice resume for a major league starter. For me, he is just enjoyable to watch.

As far as Claussen goes, he's never had my confidence because he has never shown consistancy and in my opinion does not have the mentality to take his game to the next level.

[TeamBoone]

Minor league numbers and stuff.

We'll see :)

I don't see why minor league numbers should matter at this point, not with the repeated decent performances he's put up so far in the big leagues. It's not like he's all over the place.

[redsupport]

and to think Machado was also acquired in that heist, unbelieveable

[REDREAD]

and to think Machado was also acquired in that heist, unbelieveable

:laugh: Yeah, the trade to acquire DanO's love child (Machado) ended up working out pretty good. If the Lizard continues to pitch well, I might have to change my opinion and say that DanO actually won a trade during his tenure.

[KronoRed]

I don't see why minor league numbers should matter at this point, not with the repeated decent performances he's put up so far in the big leagues. It's not like he's all over the place.
Small sample size

But..we'll see :)