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RFS62
06-14-2006, 08:37 PM
per Marc's blog...

Reds first-round pick Drew Stubbs signed earlier today for $2 million. He'll report to Billings this weekend for a couple of days of camp before the Mustangs' season begins Tuesday. "Obviously, he wants to play and we want to get him out there, so that's good stuff," said Reds senior director of scouting Chris Buckley. "He's a good kid, good family, we're happy to have him."


http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2006/06/stubbs-signs.asp

pedro
06-14-2006, 08:40 PM
Nice. Glad to see that happen quickly.

cumberlandreds
06-14-2006, 09:08 PM
:thumbup: Welcome aboard!

CTA513
06-14-2006, 09:10 PM
What will his nickname be? Stubby?

:ughmamoru

reds44
06-14-2006, 09:12 PM
Nice work Wayne. Hopefully the kid pans out.

KronoRed
06-14-2006, 09:24 PM
Lot of cash for a guy who's never swung a wood bat

RFS62
06-14-2006, 09:40 PM
What will his nickname be? Stubby?

:ughmamoru


The Stubbinator?

Stubbzilla?

jmcclain19
06-14-2006, 09:50 PM
Lot of cash for a guy who's never swung a wood bat

Actually Krono - that's a common misconception

Stubbs played on Team USA, which uses wood bats, and hit .304 last summer

http://www.usabaseball.com/sports/m-nat-basebl/mtt/stubbs_drew00.html

KronoRed
06-14-2006, 10:04 PM
Ahh, good to see.

TeamBoone
06-14-2006, 10:14 PM
I know this will not change, but I absolutely HATE these huge signing bonuses for a player who's never even stepped a foot on a minor league ball field, much less a big league park.

I just hate it. $2 million, for what? Absolutely nothing at this point; it's a gift for playing well in HS or college... a gift.

Falls City Beer
06-14-2006, 10:17 PM
I know this will not change, but I absolutely HATE these huge signing bonuses for a player who's never even stepped a foot on a minor league ball field, much less a big league park.

I just hate it. $2 million, for what? Absolutely nothing at this point; it's a gift for playing well in HS or college... a gift.

This must be our day to agree, TB. I loathe this crap. Paying $2 million to a 20 year old or an 18 year old for that matter is basically like flushing millions upon millions down the john.

There's got to be a better way.

pedro
06-14-2006, 10:20 PM
Ticket

Nugget
06-14-2006, 10:40 PM
Well we could ask RCast to draft a guy who doesn't want $2 million as a signing bonus. I guess if pro-baseball wasn't paying these guys of bonuses you'd have many more atheletes going to Gridiron and Basketball.

captainmorgan07
06-14-2006, 11:04 PM
good job getting the kid signed quick now he can get down to playing baseball

oneupper
06-14-2006, 11:41 PM
I know this will not change, but I absolutely HATE these huge signing bonuses for a player who's never even stepped a foot on a minor league ball field, much less a big league park.

I just hate it. $2 million, for what? Absolutely nothing at this point; it's a gift for playing well in HS or college... a gift.

I'm not sure what the case is nowadays, but I do remember reading somewhere that these bonuses are not just a check to cash immediately.

The payments are phased out over several years, and contingent on obtaining certain goals. I remember somewhere that if a player didn't make it the bigs he wouldn't collect the full bonus.

Somebody help with this...there's always someone who knows more about these details.

JaxRed
06-14-2006, 11:45 PM
The situation you stated is the rare exception. 99% of the time they are exactly a check to cash right then.

Krusty
06-14-2006, 11:50 PM
In light of Ben Rothlisberger's accident, I wonder if the Reds wrote in his contract that prohibits him from motorcycle riding, sking, and other activities that could have an adverse effect on his career.

oneupper
06-14-2006, 11:56 PM
The situation you stated is the rare exception. 99% of the time they are exactly a check to cash right then.

Wow...really? It sounds really, really crazy then.

I mean what if the dude quits after couple of months and decides to go to college or to meditate in the Himalayas?

What do the REDs typicall spend on their picks in a year? 5 - 10 MM?

JaxRed
06-15-2006, 12:05 AM
He could quit. On the other hand, these guys all want to play major league baseball and earn millions per year. Quitting isn't a problem, the success rate of draftees and whether they are worth it is the question.

I'd say 4 million a year on draftees.

KronoRed
06-15-2006, 12:47 AM
Draft pay scale would be a nice addition to the next labor contract



I know..hillrious idea ;)

Topcat
06-15-2006, 01:43 AM
Well we could ask RCast to draft a guy who doesn't want $2 million as a signing bonus. I guess if pro-baseball wasn't paying these guys of bonuses you'd have many more atheletes going to Gridiron and Basketball.


They already are. Not sure whom posted it but there was an article on Redszone about black players donating 10 k a piece to inner city youth across america to get kids playing the game again.

SirFelixCat
06-15-2006, 04:53 AM
They already are. Not sure whom posted it but there was an article on Redszone about black players donating 10 k a piece to inner city youth across america to get kids playing the game again.


That's awesome, imo. Good stuff.


And Krono, few things would help baseball as much as using/having a slott money draft. I think that would improve baseball as a whole. We can hope....

GAC
06-15-2006, 05:30 AM
I'm just glad they are going after a college level kid (age 21) who has had a few years (over an 18 yr old), to fill out and mature a little bit more.

And a academic All-American too from Texas. Put his locker next to Dunn's. ;)

remdog
06-15-2006, 05:49 AM
Draft pay scale would be a nice addition to the next labor contract



I know..hillrious idea ;)

I believe that there already is a 'slotted' payscale although it may be somewhat informal. The commissioners office 'suggests' the amount of money for each slot.

Seems to me that the players union was not opposed to scaleing down the draft bonuses and alloting a certain amount for each position. Not that they were being magnanimous mind you, they saw that move as freeing up more of 'their money' at the MLB level. :p:

Rem

OnBaseMachine
06-15-2006, 06:42 AM
2nd rounder Sean Watson also signed.

REDREAD
06-15-2006, 09:14 AM
Lot of cash for a guy who's never swung a wood bat

Well, he was rated the second best position player in the draft though. We've got to trust the scout's judgement here. Dunn and Kearns probably didn't use Wooden bats in high school.

REDREAD
06-15-2006, 09:17 AM
Wow...really? It sounds really, really crazy then.

I mean what if the dude quits after couple of months and decides to go to college or to meditate in the Himalayas?

What do the REDs typicall spend on their picks in a year? 5 - 10 MM?

Actually, one of the Devil Ray's guys (Was it Josh Booty?) got a huge bonus, played in the minors for a year or two and then wanted to quit and play SEC football. IIRC, the Ray's sued him to get part of the signing bonus back. I think Josh eventually went back to the minors so he wouldn't have to pay back the cash, but I'm not positive.

GAC
06-15-2006, 09:36 AM
Well, he was rated the second best position player in the draft though.

Yep. Some rated him as the best college athlete in this year's draft class.


We've got to trust the scout's judgement here.

Scouts know more then us? :lol:

Johnny Footstool
06-15-2006, 09:37 AM
Wow...really? It sounds really, really crazy then.

I mean what if the dude quits after couple of months and decides to go to college or to meditate in the Himalayas?


If he quits, he has to give the signing bonus back -- at least that's how the NFL works. I don't know about MLB.

smith288
06-15-2006, 09:59 AM
This must be our day to agree, TB. I loathe this crap. Paying $2 million to a 20 year old or an 18 year old for that matter is basically like flushing millions upon millions down the john.

There's got to be a better way.
And I agree with you... There a full moon today? ;)

princeton
06-15-2006, 10:04 AM
the UT first round hitter Hall of Fame: Shea Morenz, Calvin Murray, Brooks Kieschnick, the Reds' Scott Bryant, Danny Peoples...

princeton
06-15-2006, 10:18 AM
but there's always Longhorn immortals Keith Moreland, Shane Halter, and a personal fave, Joe Hague

http://www.baseball-reference.com/schools/texas.shtml

M2
06-15-2006, 11:11 AM
Don't forget Spike Owen. He's the UT first round hitter valedictorian.

princeton
06-15-2006, 11:27 AM
Don't forget Spike Owen. He's the UT first round hitter valedictorian.

I gave MIers a free pass.

One thing that stands out-- though UT's skimmed the cream off the HS ranks for years, they've never, ever developed a great offensive player.

convert the boy to the mound

Caveat Emperor
06-15-2006, 11:45 AM
Draft pay scale would be a nice addition to the next labor contract

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MLBPA does not represent anyone who isn't signed to a major league contract and part of a major league team's 40 man roster. Thus, the Players Association would no more have a say in how draft picks are paid than they would have a say over how much the Reds paid their hot dog vendors -- the draft picks aren't part of the bargaining unit. It wouldn't be a collective bargaining issue, but rather it would have to be some kind of agreement reached by the various owners amongst themselves.

As for Drew's nickname -- I'm with pedro on "The Ticket," but only if he breaks the Longhorn hitters trend and actually does something after leaving school.

IslandRed
06-15-2006, 02:51 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MLBPA does not represent anyone who isn't signed to a major league contract and part of a major league team's 40 man roster. Thus, the Players Association would no more have a say in how draft picks are paid than they would have a say over how much the Reds paid their hot dog vendors -- the draft picks aren't part of the bargaining unit. It wouldn't be a collective bargaining issue, but rather it would have to be some kind of agreement reached by the various owners amongst themselves.


I'm not sure that's right. The MLBPA is the recognized bargaining agent for major league baseball, and as such has the ability to negotiate things even on behalf of those who aren't actual union members. The draft itself is part of the CBA. Also remember that the rookie caps/pay scales in the NFL and NBA were collectively bargained and apply to draftees, even though those players are not yet part of the respective unions.

37red
06-15-2006, 02:55 PM
No WAY!! Two million bucks and you can walk down to the candy store with it! That's some stupid business dealing. I'd be writing a tough contract with someone if they wanted to work for me and get 2 million...... This is what happens when someone gets too used to having millions of dollars to throw around, like our elected politicians. TB is absolutly right, that's nuts.

JaxRed
06-15-2006, 03:13 PM
I could find no reference on the web to Booty having to repay his bonus when he left baseball.

Benihana
06-15-2006, 03:27 PM
Booty was drafted by the Marlins, not the Rays, and he eventually went to play for LSU, the opposite move of Drew Henson.

KronoRed
06-15-2006, 03:56 PM
I just wish college players used wooden bats, in fact I wish aluminum bats were outlawed but I have no shot at that :D

KronoRed
06-15-2006, 03:58 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MLBPA does not represent anyone who isn't signed to a major league contract and part of a major league team's 40 man roster. Thus, the Players Association would no more have a say in how draft picks are paid than they would have a say over how much the Reds paid their hot dog vendors -- the draft picks aren't part of the bargaining unit. It wouldn't be a collective bargaining issue, but rather it would have to be some kind of agreement reached by the various owners amongst themselves.

I thought I remembered the last go around with the union that they talked about a pay scale on the draft and the players said maybe but no.

I might be remembering it wrong, but I can just imagine the owners getting together on it and then being sued for collusion

Steve4192
06-15-2006, 06:00 PM
I just wish college players used wooden bats, in fact I wish aluminum bats were outlawed but I have no shot at that :D

I've always thought that supplying NCAA division I teams with wooden bats would be a no-brainer investment for MLB. When you are a billion dollar company and are spending tens of millions each year for unproven college players, why not spend a few hundred thousand to get a better read on your future assets/employees?

Just tally up how much MLB D1 programs are spending on aluminum bats and re-imburse for any incremental expense they incur by switching to wooden bats. MLB gets a nice PR boost for making a donation to higher education (which they might be able to write off), the NCAA gets better equipment and a safer environment for their student athletes. Win-Win.

Yachtzee
06-15-2006, 10:36 PM
but there's always Longhorn immortals Keith Moreland, Shane Halter, and a personal fave, Joe Hague

http://www.baseball-reference.com/schools/texas.shtml

And the immortal Billy Bates! :cool:

cincinnati chili
06-17-2006, 12:03 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MLBPA does not represent anyone who isn't signed to a major league contract and part of a major league team's 40 man roster. Thus, the Players Association would no more have a say in how draft picks are paid than they would have a say over how much the Reds paid their hot dog vendors



You might be wrong. You might be right.

A draft has been found to be an illegal restraint of trade under the Sherman Act by a (litany of court cases including Supreme Court cases), UNLESS it has been the result of bona fide arms length bargaining with the unions. [The ill-conceived Maurice Clarett case kinda clouds this... but that was just one issue - minimum player age, not salary]

However, MLB might still try to hide behind the antitrust exemption (since amateur players are not protected under the Curt Flood Act).

I think that legally MLB can unilaterally impose a draft and draft rules. However, the cutback to 50 rounds in recent years suggests to me that MLB lawyers were concerned that some judge might find that baseball was abusing its discretion in the antitrust exemption by having so many unnecessary rounds.

cincinnati chili
06-17-2006, 12:11 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MLBPA does not represent anyone who isn't signed to a major league contract and part of a major league team's 40 man roster. Thus, the Players Association would no more have a say in how draft picks are paid than they would have a say over how much the Reds paid their hot dog vendors -- the draft picks aren't part of the bargaining unit. It wouldn't be a collective bargaining issue, but rather it would have to be some kind of agreement reached by the various owners amongst themselves.


Island Red's answer is basically right. But baseball's treatment of amateurs (compared to NBA, NFL, etc) is clouded by the antitrust exemption.

Baseball DOES conspire right now, openly, to hold down signing bonuses. Lars Anderson and Tony Watson would have been drafted in the first 2 or 3 rounds and given high 6-low 7 figure bonuses if the commissioner's office hadn't made explicit or implicit threats against teams who did so. They ended up going around round 20

In sports other than baseball, this conspiracy in restraint of trade would be criminal behavior (and no, I'm not exaggerating - check Section II of the Sherman Act... it's still a felony), UNLESS the union agrees to it.

To answer your specific question, there are some cases in other sports were an amateur player has claimed that the arrangement between the union and the league DIDN'T APPLY to them, because they weren't union members when the contract was negotiated. AS far as I know, the player has always lost.

See Zimmerman v. NFL , 632 F. Supp. 398 (D.D.C. 1986)

See also Wood v. National Basketball Asso., 809 F.2d 954 (2d Cir. 1987)