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View Full Version : Should we keep LaRue?



Reds1
06-16-2006, 03:18 PM
We currently have 3 catchers and with Castro coming on board and then EE soon - another decision will have to be made. I think it's too early on this, but this year it might make sense to designate LaRue for Assignment and then we won't have to pay his salary next year. Is that right? Seems to me as long as someone picks him up we won't have to pay him this year either.

IMO I still would like to see McCrackin waived when EE comes back, but then we become a little light on OF. Just wanted to see what people thought or what opinions on LaRue and his value to the Reds right now and into next season.

Just seems to me Ross is at least as good defensively and probably better if not much better offensively. He's cheaper and even a little younger.

Thanks
David

Redsland
06-16-2006, 03:32 PM
it might make sense to designate LaRue for Assignment and then we won't have to pay his salary next year.
Yes we will.

If we trade him, we're free and clear. If we release him, we pay his salary. If we waive him and someone makes a claim, they get him for the pro-rated minimum (162 games @ $337k or so) and we pay the rest.

Ross is younger and cheaper, but I wouldn't say he's "better" than LaRue. Assuming Jason's numbers come back to their norm, of course.

Now, we'd be trading LaRue with his stock at an all-time low and his salary at an all-time high. That probably means we wouldn't get much in return. It might be better to wait and see how he does. (Or trade Ross while he's riding high.)

pedro
06-16-2006, 03:35 PM
I think the Reds should keep him unless they can get a decent pitcher for him.

GAC
06-16-2006, 03:46 PM
They DL'd Wilson (60 day), so that delays any move until EE comes off the DL. And when that happens, Olmedo is going down. ;)

oneupper
06-16-2006, 04:22 PM
I don't like LaRue much (I think he's awful with runners on), but really smart people here on the board have swayed me to believe he is valuable vs. what is out there in the market (there aint much). He or Valentin should be able to net something in a trade.

He needs to be playing more then, for all the reasons we know (trade value, get his swing back, etc.)

Right now, Ross is catching everyone except Ramirez.

We have to think about Giving Ross Arroyo and Claussen while
LaRue catches Milton and Harang.
Ross can have Ramirez when a lefty pitches for the other team.

No one is going to be happy with that, which makes it a good solution until we can trade someone.

Will we lose some games as a result? Perhaps. But Ross hit 4 HR in his last three starts and we still lost them all (no, I'm not blaming Ross).

Reds1
06-16-2006, 04:40 PM
They DL'd Wilson (60 day), so that delays any move until EE comes off the DL. And when that happens, Olmedo is going down. ;)

The DL of Wilson get's him on the 40. We need to make another to get him on the 25. ;) So we still have another decision to make. Wilson's not on the active 25 roster.

KronoRed
06-16-2006, 04:45 PM
Keep Larue and get rid of Valentin

Marc D
06-16-2006, 04:48 PM
I don't like LaRue much (I think he's awful with runners on), but really smart people here on the board have swayed me to believe he is valuable vs. what is out there in the market (there aint much). He or Valentin should be able to net something in a trade.

He needs to be playing more then, for all the reasons we know (trade value, get his swing back, etc.)

Right now, Ross is catching everyone except Ramirez.

We have to think about Giving Ross Arroyo and Claussen while
LaRue catches Milton and Harang.
Ross can have Ramirez when a lefty pitches for the other team.

No one is going to be happy with that, which makes it a good solution until we can trade someone.

Will we lose some games as a result? Perhaps. But Ross hit 4 HR in his last three starts and we still lost them all (no, I'm not blaming Ross).

I think LaRue's contract negates whatever his production warrants in terms of trade value.

He has been the most obvious trade candidate all year and not even any good rumors out there. I'm afraid there is simply not much of a market for him all things considered.

That said, let Posada's hammy get worse and lets see what's what.

pedro
06-16-2006, 04:52 PM
I think LaRue's contract negates whatever his production warrants in terms of trade value.

He has been the most obvious trade candidate all year and not even any good rumors out there. I'm afraid there is simply not much of a market for him all things considered.

That said, let Posada's hammy get worse and lets see what's what.


I think part of the problem, aside from Larue's putrid start this season, is the worry that he may not be fully recovered from this springs' knee surgery. Add that to the seemingly weak market for catchers and I agree that it;'s going to take an injury of another teams catcher to move Larue for anything meaningful.

RFS62
06-16-2006, 05:03 PM
Sunk cost.

If you think you're in contention, you have to play the hot hand, no matter who it is.

Right now, that's Ross.

If Ross cools off, try to shine Jason up and then assess your options.

pedro
06-16-2006, 05:05 PM
Sunk cost.

If you think you're in contention, you have to play the hot hand, no matter who it is.

Right now, that's Ross.

If Ross cools off, try to shine Jason up and then assess your options.

I agree with that. It doesn't make sense to sit a guy who's as hot as Ross just b/c you're paying Larue more.

RBA
06-16-2006, 05:11 PM
Move LaRue to third base, afterall it was done with Bench. ;) jk

KronoRed
06-16-2006, 05:14 PM
He does have 3 career starts at 3rd ;)

RedsManRick
06-16-2006, 05:23 PM
If LaRue gets 400 AB and plays 110 games, he's worth what he's getting paid. Problem is that we have 2 other options who are both much cheaper. At this point, you ride the hot hand or whomever the pitchers are most comfortable with. However, you also shop LaRue aggressively.

It's not that he's overpriced. It's that given our sudden wealth of catchers, he's underused. That doesn't change his potential value to other teams.

Reds1
06-16-2006, 05:25 PM
Keep Larue and get rid of Valentin


Why do you say this? Just curious. Valentin is so much cheaper and a better hitter (at least from the left side). He also is nice to have with EZ and also plays 1B. We can free up 5.5 million by DFA later in the year. It's my understanding that then we only have to pay him for this year and we free up the dollars for Relief pitching next year and we still have 2 very good catchers.

Reds1
06-16-2006, 05:28 PM
It's not that he's overpriced. It's that given our sudden wealth of catchers, he's underused. That doesn't change his potential value to other teams.

Good point on the sudden wealth of cathers. At least this year I agree he's not overpriced. However, next season I'm not sure he was ever worth 5.5 Mil.

Gainesville Red
06-16-2006, 05:33 PM
Can LaRue play 1st? Not that I'd really want to put him there, just wondering.

Redsland
06-16-2006, 05:36 PM
Can LaRue play 1st? Not that I'd really want to put him there, just wondering.
Once in '01, once in '03.

Zero errors. :beerme:

pedro
06-16-2006, 05:59 PM
Why do you say this? Just curious. Valentin is so much cheaper and a better hitter (at least from the left side). He also is nice to have with EZ and also plays 1B. We can free up 5.5 million by DFA later in the year. It's my understanding that then we only have to pay him for this year and we free up the dollars for Relief pitching next year and we still have 2 very good catchers.


The Reds would have to pay Larue is they DFA'd him.

Marc D
06-16-2006, 06:25 PM
Good point on the sudden wealth of cathers. At least this year I agree he's not overpriced. However, next season I'm not sure he was ever worth 5.5 Mil.

He's not grossly overpaid but he's not cheap.

As a point of refrence over '06 and '07 LaRue is due about 9M. Over that same time frame Barrett is due 8M. Barett gives you a smidge more offense for a million less. Not earth shattering but add in the knee and horrible '06 numbers and I can see why no ones beating our door down for him.

If he can get something going this year I still think it will take a LoDuca/Posada/Veritek injury to get a good haul for LaRue.

KronoRed
06-16-2006, 06:33 PM
Why do you say this? Just curious. Valentin is so much cheaper and a better hitter (at least from the left side). He also is nice to have with EZ and also plays 1B. We can free up 5.5 million by DFA later in the year. It's my understanding that then we only have to pay him for this year and we free up the dollars for Relief pitching next year and we still have 2 very good catchers.
I don't think Valentin is a much better hitter, he has last year, and that to me screams one year wonder, the fact that he's cheap is a good reason he should have been dealt off this offseason, would bring more then LaRue would now.

WVRedsFan
06-16-2006, 06:34 PM
We currently have 3 catchers and with Castro coming on board and then EE soon - another decision will have to be made. I think it's too early on this, but this year it might make sense to designate LaRue for Assignment and then we won't have to pay his salary next year. Is that right?

David

If anyone goes it should be Valentin. He's clearly moved back to career norms (= lousy), he can't field, and his hitting is more like his past record. Jason is better, so if a catcher has to go, I vote for Javier.

But you know these old catchers--they like having lots of catchers around. Narron's probably in heaven just knowing he has three of them.

Reds1
06-16-2006, 06:54 PM
The Reds would have to pay Larue is they DFA'd him.


It's my understanding that they have to pay him this season, but next season they would be off the hook. Am I wrong?

KronoRed
06-16-2006, 06:55 PM
Yeah, we'd be on the hook for the entire deal.

TeamBoone
06-16-2006, 08:05 PM
It makes me angry that Jason hasn't started in over a week; I think his last start was on the 7th.

When Jason's bat was hot last year, I don't remember Javy being benched in every single game for over a week.

RBA
06-16-2006, 08:25 PM
It makes me angry that Jason hasn't started in over a week; I think his last start was on the 7th.

When Jason's bat was hot last year, I don't remember Javy being benched in every single game for over a week.

But the Reds didn't carry THREE catchers back than.

Reds1
06-16-2006, 08:47 PM
I don't think Valentin is a much better hitter, he has last year, and that to me screams one year wonder, the fact that he's cheap is a good reason he should have been dealt off this offseason, would bring more then LaRue would now.

That was last year though. We are in the present. Larue has less the .200 BA and won't get enough AB to get it going in this situation. You'd rather hold LaRue and that high salary sitting on the bench. He's there just waiting for an injury ala Wily Mo Pena. I just hope a trade is in the works for one of them. If it's a good RP I'd trade any of them.

Also, if we DFA and he's picked up we are off the hook for the salary and I think he'd be picked up.

Reds1
06-16-2006, 08:54 PM
It makes me angry that Jason hasn't started in over a week; I think his last start was on the 7th.

When Jason's bat was hot last year, I don't remember Javy being benched in every single game for over a week.

I think it's because Ross is just so incredibly hot. He's 2nd only to Pujols in HR per AB and RBI per AB. I agree though I'd like to see him get in there once, but hard to complain about what Ross is doing.

RedsManRick
06-16-2006, 09:39 PM
That was last year though. We are in the present. Larue has less the .200 BA and won't get enough AB to get it going in this situation. You'd rather hold LaRue and that high salary sitting on the bench. He's there just waiting for an injury ala Wily Mo Pena. I just hope a trade is in the works for one of them. If it's a good RP I'd trade any of them.

Also, if we DFA and he's picked up we are off the hook for the salary and I think he'd be picked up.

LaRue's value has absolutely nothing to do with his BA this year. He is a known commidity. Give him 350 AB and he'll hit .250 with some pop. He's a solid mid-tier catcher. If he were a FA he'd get 4-5 Mil from somebody. I'm not sure if the market is there, but his value isn't affected by this year's situation.

Redsland
06-16-2006, 11:27 PM
Also, if we DFA and he's picked up we are off the hook for the salary and I think he'd be picked up.
No, we wouldn't be off the hook for his salary. We gave him a guaranteed contract, and we're going to have to pay it, unless someone else accepts him in trade. If we release him, we pay. If we waive him, we pay (minus the major league minimum).

But despite what Hal McCoy says, Jason is worth his salary, assuming his numbers come back. There's no reason why he can't be moved, if that's what the organization wants.

Mario-Rijo
06-16-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by TeamBoone It makes me angry that Jason hasn't started in over a week; I think his last start was on the 7th.

When Jason's bat was hot last year, I don't remember Javy being benched in every single game for over a week.


Well neither Javy nor Jason is the gamecaller that Ross is and that is far more important for the Red's at this point IMO! Ross' recent offensive success is only a part of the equation and a smaller part at that!

MWM
06-17-2006, 12:10 AM
I agree with those who have said to play the hot hand in Ross. But I haven't been all that enamored with Ross' defense. I think Larue is better defensively. Larue has gotten so much better defensively over the last few years than he he was his first few, but I think people still think of him not as a good defenseive catcher. I think he's very good behind the plate and I wouldn't trade him unless you got an offer that was just too good to refuse. Otherwise he's going ot be needed. If you're going to DFA someone let it be Valentin, he's not all that great on either side.

LoganBuck
06-17-2006, 12:11 AM
I agree with Mario-Rijo on the point about the game calling. Maybe it is the new philosopy from the bench or maybe it is entirely the catcher. What I really hated about Larue especially last year, was that if a pitcher had three pitches he called them all in the first at bat. The second time around the hitter had seen every thing that the pitchers had to offer. Granted Ortiz would have needed a David Blaine level trickery to get people out with his stuff, but I have noticed that this year the emphasis is more on location. Reds pitchers will throw the same pitch but in several different locations, and then if they need to finish the guy off the throw something different. Much more efficient.

savafan
06-17-2006, 12:12 AM
The Reds are paying Larue no matter what right now. If he's not going to play, and lately he hasn't been, then he's just taking up a roster spot that could be put to better use. If you can't get anything for him in a trade, you might as well cut him loose and give him a chance to catch on somewhere else and bring up someone who is going to play.

There is no good reason to carry three catchers.

TeamBoone
06-17-2006, 12:41 AM
I think it's because Ross is just so incredibly hot. He's 2nd only to Pujols in HR per AB and RBI per AB. I agree though I'd like to see him get in there once, but hard to complain about what Ross is doing.

I have no problem with David, but Jason should catch instead of Javy. In nine days, actually eight because of the off day, Javy has caught twice (not just for Ramirez); Jason has caught nada and is rotting away on the bench, becoming rustier with each passing day.

I realize Ross is hot, but there's no reason LaRue couldn't have caught Javy's game when Ramirez wasn't on the mound (I can't remember who was) or Wednesday's day game after Ross caught the night before.

With the exception of Q, Narron manages to give everyone else decent playing time.

And BTW, he is NOT overpaid... check out this thread, if you haven't already. It says a lot about LaRue: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38920

Reds1
06-17-2006, 01:44 AM
And BTW, he is NOT overpaid... check out this thread, if you haven't already. It says a lot about LaRue: http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38920

I hadn't seen that post. Interesting, but I didn't say he was overpaid this year. I did say 5.5 million for next year was too much. He's not that good and that much better then either catcher we have. Better then JL, but no better then Ross and we can use that money. I'm not sure i"m for a salary dump at this point, but to win we need all the pieces and I am not in the camp that thinks 3 catchers is what we need. Ross is cheaper and younger and better offensively. We hit some magic in a bottle which is great. It is sad to see guys go and I am a LaRue fan, but I was also a Casey fan and I think the move has helped this team and will in the future. We now have Dunn signed LT. thanks for the replys. Off to bed.

KronoRed
06-17-2006, 01:58 AM
There is no good reason to carry three catchers.
There is when you have a former catcher as a manager ;)

WVPacman
06-17-2006, 02:05 AM
Send Larue and Quinten Mcracken to Pittsburg for Oliver Perez.:beerme: :D

savafan
06-17-2006, 02:12 AM
There is when you have a former catcher as a manager ;)

Nah, because Narron was a catcher, he should have an even firmer grasp on how frustrating it is to all of these guys about their playing time.

KronoRed
06-17-2006, 02:13 AM
But catchers are REAL ballplayer, a whole roster of them would go 162-0 ;)

savafan
06-17-2006, 02:22 AM
But catchers are REAL ballplayer, a whole roster of them would go 162-0 ;)


But how would they do in the playoffs? With Krivsky's plan, adding 12 middle infielders to 13 catchers, and that team will be sure to go 173-0 :p:

TeamBoone
06-17-2006, 03:21 AM
Why is everyone talking like Javy is the backup catcher?

If Ross truly has taken over the starting role (and I guess he has), why does that automatically make Javy second and LaRue third?

Granted, LaRue is playing less than Javy, but why is that? He shouldn't be.

RFS62
06-17-2006, 09:41 AM
If I was Jason's agent, I'd tell him to keep his cool and concentrate on staying ready. Ross' big start won't last forever and he'll get his chance. The last thing he needs to do is become a clubhouse distraction.

I'd be stunned if the Reds moved him anytime soon, especially given his performance thus far this year, and his contract.

Just be a professional, Jason. Get yourself ready and stay ready.

RANDY IN INDY
06-17-2006, 10:15 AM
If I was Jason's agent, I'd tell him to keep his cool and concentrate on staying ready. Ross' big start won't last forever and he'll get his chance. The last thing he needs to do is become a clubhouse distraction.

I'd be stunned if the Reds moved him anytime soon, especially given his performance thus far this year, and his contract.

Just be a professional, Jason. Get yourself ready and stay ready.

Excellent and sage advice. "Woodenesque."


I will get ready, and then, perhaps my chance will come."

Former UCLA Coach, John Wooden

Reds1
06-17-2006, 10:21 AM
Why is everyone talking like Javy is the backup catcher?

If Ross truly has taken over the starting role (and I guess he has), why does that automatically make Javy second and LaRue third?

Granted, LaRue is playing less than Javy, but why is that? He shouldn't be.

What I think everyone means is Javy can be a good backup and LaRue is getting paid too much to be a back up. Well, that's what I mean. LaRue is not good off the bench. I wouldn't expect him to be a good PH because he needs AB. I just can't believe no one would need his services.

Reds1
06-17-2006, 10:24 AM
If I was Jason's agent, I'd tell him to keep his cool and concentrate on staying ready. Ross' big start won't last forever and he'll get his chance. The last thing he needs to do is become a clubhouse distraction.

I'd be stunned if the Reds moved him anytime soon, especially given his performance thus far this year, and his contract.

Just be a professional, Jason. Get yourself ready and stay ready.

I agree with this and I think Jason has been pretty good about this. Ross could go down anyday and his offense can quickly come back down to reality. I think everyone pretty much agrees to play the hot hand, but having 3 catchers is nice, but trading one for a piece of the puzzle would be even sweeter.

Jpup
06-17-2006, 12:13 PM
If I was LaRue, I would be pissed too. There is no reason for Valentin to be playing in front of him. If I was the best catcher on a team and I was considered the 3rd catcher, I would, kindly, ask for a trade.

Candy Cummings
06-17-2006, 12:22 PM
He may not be expensive, but he's costly for a guy who isn't getting into the games. I can't imagine at this point he has huge trade value, I think we're pretty much stuck where we are unless we want to make a drastic move. At this point, we have to see how likely we really are to be in contention.

KronoRed
06-17-2006, 04:58 PM
Valentin is a switch hitter, even though he stinks like a diaper from one side of the plate, that SH thing gets him "back up" status ;)