View Full Version : Send Claussen to AAA or put him in the pen??

06-17-2006, 12:35 AM
This guy is giving me a headache and they should make a decision on him very soon.He does'nt need to be a Starting pitcher so they either should move him to the pen or send him to AAA so he can HOPEFULLY find out whats wrong with him.

Have we got anybody who can take his place in the rotation??

06-17-2006, 12:59 AM
Pen for now, he just isn't that good, nothing more.

06-17-2006, 01:01 AM
Who would take his spot in the rotation??

06-17-2006, 01:07 AM
I'd like to see Belisle

06-17-2006, 01:10 AM
I thought Belisle was hurt,but if not then I agree with you I would give him a chance.

06-17-2006, 01:39 AM
It's pretty obvious, from Narron's comments and Marc Lancaster's blog that it will be Mays.

06-17-2006, 02:19 AM
Claussen has no options left.

06-17-2006, 02:43 AM

Caveat Emperor
06-17-2006, 03:51 AM
Claussen has no options left.

Is that counting "failure" or not?

06-17-2006, 04:54 AM
After reading this (below), I have respect for, and feel sorry for Claussen. I really don't think his struggles is from a lack of effort on his part. I have always believed it has been psychological and no faith in his own stuff. I think he demonstrates the same symptons that Reitsma did a few years ago while here - he was apprehensive about really going after/challenging the hitters.

"I'll respect whatever decision is made," Claussen said. "That's all I can do. I'll submit to the authority like I'm supposed to do. That's their job. I haven't done my job lately. If that's the decision they feel is going to help this ballclub, then I will support that decision 100 percent.... I feel like whatever decision is made is going to be the right decision. I will never argue that at all."

The nine earned runs allowed tied Claussen's career high, a mark he set this season at Milwaukee on April 22.

"I'm trying to make the best of a bad situation," Claussen said. "What can you do? It's not from a lack of effort. I'm trying to keep a positive attitude with everything I do. This game is a game of defeats sometimes. I'm just trying to do my best not to let it get the best of me. At times like this, you find out a lot about yourself."


As for Joe May - I have no problem giving him a chance. Why not? We did the same with Yan and a few others. We really have no other options at this point.

Joe Mays

2003 Career Highlights:

Went 8-8 with a career-high 6.30 ERA in 31 games, including 21 starts...allowed 21 home runs in 130.0 innings...Opened the season by going 7-3 with a 5.40 ERA (70.0 IP, 42 ER) in his 1st 12 starts...struggled the remainder of the way, going 1-5 with a 7.35 ERA in his remaining 19 appearances (9 starts)...Pitched 6-plus innings in 4 straight starts, going 2-1 with a 4.56 ERA (25.2 IP, 13 ER) from April 13-May 1...Recorded a season-high 5 strikeouts on May 1 vs. Tampa Bay...Tied a career-high 4-game win-streak, going 4-0 with a 4.56 ERA (23.2 IP, 12 ER) from May 17-June 3...Tossed a season-high 8.0 innings at Kansas City on June 19...allowed just 6 hits and 2 earned runs in his 8th win of the season...Was sent to the bullpen on July 6...made his 1st relief appearance since Aug. 17, 2000 at Texas on July 10 at Texas...was 0-0 with a 2.79 ERA (9.2 IP, 3 ER) in 4 appearances from July 23-Aug. 2...Pitched 6-plus innings in 10 of 21 starts...was 8-7 with a 6.77 (110.1 IP, 83 ER) in 21 starts and 0-1 with a 3.66 ERA (19.2 IP, 8 ER) in 10 relief appearances...Had ulnar collateral ligament replacement surgery on his right elbow on Sept. 11.

2004 Career Highlights: missed entire season due to Tommy John surgery on right elbow.

2005 Career Highlights:

Rebounded from Tommy John surgery to post a 6-10 record and a 5.65 ERA in 31 games (26 starts)...allowed 98 earned runs in 156.0 innings...Went 4-5 with a 4.52 ERA in 15 starts at the Metrodome, compared to 2-5 with a 7.46 ERA on the road...Went 5-3 with a 4.13 ERA prior to the All-Star Break before slowing down the stretch with a 1-7 mark and an 8.22 ERA after the break...Finished the season with 10 quality starts and threw 7-plus innings in 7 starts...lasted 6-plus innings in 13 of his 26 starts...Notched 2 of his 4 wins vs. KC, going 2-0 with a 6.00 ERA in 4 starts...Made his 1st appearance of the season out of the bullpen vs. Chicago on April 8...made his 1st start vs. Detroit on April 12 and took a no decision in Minnesota's 5-4 win (5.0 IP, 4 H, 3 ER, 4 BB)...Pitched 6-plus innings in 6 consecutive starts from May 8-June 4...was 2-1 with a 3.16 ERA (42.2 IP, 15 ER) during that stretch...Tossed his 10th career complete game vs. Toronto on May 19, a 4-0 Twins win (7 H, 0 BB, 3 SO)...was his 6th career shutout and a season-high 9-inning effort...threw just 93 pitches in the game...Improved to 3-3 with a 3-1 win over the Royals on June 27 after holding KC to 6 hits and 1 run in 8.0 innings of work...Was 2-0 with a 1.80 ERA (15.0 IP, 3 ER) in 2 starts, June 27-July 3...recorded a season-high 6 strikeouts on July 17 vs. Los Angeles.

I have a strange feeeling this BP is gonna be stretched beyond belief in the second halve.

06-17-2006, 10:16 AM
have him completely checked for injury and then if he is ok, let him start every 5th day. I think that a lot of his troubles yesterday were do to some borderline calls in the first inning. He wasn't getting anything called in his favor except right in the middle of the plate. He couldn't get a call and then just starting laying them over the heart of the plate and then Chicago started pounding him. How's that? :p:

I was at the Philly game where Claussen pitched so well, and this kid has the ability to get it done. I'm really not sure if he isn't hurt.

Joe Mays is as bad, or worse than Dave Williams. Pass. It's time for Krivsky to quit sitting on his hands and go get some more pitching.

06-17-2006, 10:39 AM
Scouts always said Brandon Claussen had that bulldog mentality, and I believe it. This guy was once, IMO, very very legit. The arm injury sapped him of his stuff. His velocity didn't come all the way back.

I thought last year he had learned how to pitch without his best stuff and really thought he would take a "harang-esque" leap forward this year - find some consistency. Unfortunately that hasn't happened. I've watched Claussen pitch well, and pitch terribly. So he's an enigma. He's still somewhat "young" - certainly not worth getting rid of. He just needs to figure it out, whatever "it" is. I really wish Ruhle was here. I think he's a bigger influence on our pitchers and staff than people think.

I wish nothing but the best for Claussen. Turn it around and have a good 2nd half. He certainly sounds like the kind of teamate i'd love to have - aside from the performance part. :)

And I agree with other's sentimients that Mays is not the answer. We've seen what a pleasant surprise the Lizard has been. I am a big believer in Matt Belisle. His stuff can be filthy.

06-17-2006, 10:43 AM
So, would you deal Claussen to Washington in a deal for RHP Tony Armas?

06-17-2006, 10:43 AM
If Claussen stays on the Reds but moves to the pen, which seems likely, it could give him a shot in the arm. I'm no pitching expert, but he seems to nibble, seems afraid to go after guys. In the first inning last night he got some tough calls, but really seemed afraid to go after Konerko and Dye. Then, when in trouble, he served one up for Crede and the game was over.

In the pen, he may change his approach, thinking that walks are poison for a reliever. If he goes after the hitters more, he could be effective as a reliever. If he continues to pitch as is, he won't be effective in any role.

If they keep him up on the Reds, maybe the bullpen will bring him better luck. Reds sure could use another effective reliever.

As for Belisle, please do not make him a starter. He failed as a starter in AAA, has back problems, and finally seems to be improving as a reliever, with more consistent outings. Just leave him where he is (I don't mean the DL). Mays is ok as a fifth starter for now.

06-17-2006, 11:06 AM
Mays is ok as a fifth starter for now.

You were making sense until that. Wow. What's OK about him? He's horrible. I think Reds fans, myself included, have been conditioned to believe it's ok to run this mess out there every 5 days. It's not OK, the problems can be fixed.

Candy Cummings
06-17-2006, 11:08 AM
You still can't give up on Claussen, IMO. Its getting closer, but you can't afford to have a relatively young guy with any talent at all as a pitcher and not play the string out.

No doubt, its going to Mays. No doubt, Mays will be lit up routinely, and Claussen will get a second chance.

I had hope that Claussen was going to emerge at least as an average pitcher this year, but he has regressed.

06-17-2006, 11:57 AM
Mays isn't here to be in the bullpen....he's here for that moment Claussen gets demoted, which I think has come.

Mays, which I think we'll all agree, is not a long term solution, but may be ok for a start or two... but Claussen can't go out there anymore and get his head kicked start in and start out.

I know Krivsky isn't big on bringing guys up from AA, but maybe there's a legit guy down there who could get the job done.

06-17-2006, 12:58 PM
If mays MUST be inserted into the rotation (ugh!), then at least skip him every-other-start.

06-17-2006, 01:03 PM
So, would you deal Claussen to Washington in a deal for RHP Tony Armas?

no question

06-17-2006, 01:09 PM
You were making sense until that. Wow. What's OK about him? He's horrible. I think Reds fans, myself included, have been conditioned to believe it's ok to run this mess out there every 5 days. It's not OK, the problems can be fixed.

I'm willing to give Mays a shot. New setting, different league, maybe he can have a few good outings. I think the key is whether the Reds can hang in there for the next month. If so, then they can do a trade deadline deal for someone better.

Have to make a change. Can't let Claussen keep going out there to get clobbered. Even if the change is just temporary, Claussen is a young guy who needs new direction.

06-17-2006, 01:13 PM
I'm willing to give Mays a shot. New setting, different league, maybe he can have a few good outings. I think the key is whether the Reds can hang in there for the next month. If so, then they can do a trade deadline deal for someone better.

Have to make a change. Can't let Claussen keep going out there to get clobbered. Even if the change is just temporary, Claussen is a young guy who needs new direction.

He's not that young...

06-17-2006, 02:52 PM
Claussen is a young guy who needs new direction.

Problem with Brandon is he's got no "out" pitch and he's scared out of the strike zone. He's either got to improve his changeup (to get RHH out) or find a breaking ball (to get LHH out) or preferably both. If the Red's pitching coaches can no longer improve Claussen then it's time to find another GM/coach who still sees potential in him and move him along to the proverbial "change of scenery"

I always hate selling low, but this is the championship season and the herd has gotta leave the weak behind to fend for themselves

06-17-2006, 03:54 PM
Mays is not a solution right now, the Royals got rid of this guy for heavens sake, if he had something don't you think they might have held on to him and put him in AAA?

I'm about ready to give up on Brandon and sell HIM to someone else with the change of scenery line, throw in Wagner and call it the "scenery" sale :D

06-17-2006, 04:14 PM
Claussen will be checked out by Dr. Kremcheck this weekend. According to Jerry, he was complaining about his shoulder when he came out of the game yesterday. Mays will start his next start, REGARDLESS if anything is wrong with Brandon's shoulder or not.

That's the latest.

06-17-2006, 04:29 PM
I would dl Claussen if he was complaining about his shoulder. This would give him time to rest up and get some rehab starts. This could be the Belise roster spot perhaps.

06-17-2006, 06:25 PM
He has been DL'd. (see Reds Live)

06-17-2006, 07:05 PM
Notes: Claussen placed on 15-day DL
06/17/2006 6:49 PM ET
By Mark Sheldon / MLB.com

CINCINNATI -- The Reds were already poised to remove struggling lefty Brandon Claussen from the rotation in favor of right-hander Joe Mays. However, an unexpected development on Saturday made that decision less problematic.
After he reported pain in his left shoulder, Claussen was diagnosed with rotator cuff tendinitis and placed on the 15-day disabled list. A replacement on the 25-man roster will be announced after Saturday's game.

Mays will take Claussen's turn in the rotation and start on Wednesday against the Mets at Shea Stadium.

Claussen, who was roughed up for nine earned runs over two innings in Friday's 12-4 loss to the White Sox, revealed he had discomfort after the game via a late night phone call to pitching coach Tom Hume.

Team medical director Dr. Tim Kremchek examined the left-hander late Saturday afternoon. Before Claussen had seen Kremchek, Reds manager Jerry Narron was asked if this was the first time he ever heard there was a shoulder issue.

"Yes, sir," was Narron's brief reply.

"It's been one of those things I thought I'd just try and throw through it," Claussen said on Saturday before his doctor's visit. "It started out as just normal soreness or normal wear and tear. I changed my arm slot a little bit, and I ended up feeling fatigue in my elbow. The last few starts, I brought my arm slot back up a little bit and tried to stay more over the rubber, and I still felt the same problem."

Claussen had never had shoulder problems before, but did have Tommy John surgery on his left elbow in 2002, when he was with the Yankees organization.

Struggling to throw strikes consistently this season, Claussen is 3-8 with a 6.19 ERA in 14 starts and 1-6 over his last nine outings. He hasn't won a game since May 19 against Detroit.

"If he's got something bothering him, I'm glad he said something," Narron said.

Complete coverage >Ready to go: Mays, who threw 75 pitches over four innings in relief of Claussen, said on Saturday that he was already prepared to step into the Cincinnati rotation before an announcement was made.

"There's no doubt that I have the stamina to do it, if it's asked of me," said Mays, who was charged with two runs -- one earned -- and seven hits. "I just try to go day by day right now. If that's something they need, then I'm willing to do that. That's the whole reason for me coming here in the first place, to be in that rotation."

Mays, who has 152 big-league starts over his career with the Twins and Royals, bottomed out with Kansas City earlier this season. Released after he went 0-4 with a 10.27 ERA in 10 starts, the right-hander could identify with Claussen's challenges on the mound.

"I feel terrible for Claussen, because I've been there pretty much this year and last year [with Minnesota]," Mays said. "It seems like every little thing you do isn't right. If there's a break the other team can get, they seem to get it. It's a tough situation. It's a terrible feeling of going out there and you're battling yourself and you're battling the other team. You're battling the umpires and all these elements you have no control over."

Since joining the Reds staff, the 30-year-old Mays has a 1.29 ERA in seven innings over three games. He's also throwing his sinkerball with more velocity. With the Royals, he was reportedly throwing in the 86-87 mph range. With the Reds, he's approached 89-90 mph with more frequency.

"I knew it was there," said Mays, who was a 17-game winner and an All-Star in 2001. "It was just a matter of getting my mechanics down and stop trying to force things."

On assignment: Reliever Matt Belisle, on the 15-day DL because of a back injury, departed for Class A Dayton on Saturday afternoon and was scheduled to make the second appearance of his rehabilitation assignment. If all goes well, Belisle will pitch for Double-A Chattanooga on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. He's going there, because Dayton and Triple-A Louisville were playing on the road.

Coming up: The Reds will conclude their three-game Interleague series with the White Sox on Sunday at 1:15 p.m. ET. Right-hander Aaron Harang (7-4, 3.91) will pitch for Cincinnati against Chicago's Jon Garland (5-3, 6.01) at Great American Ball Park.

This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

It looks like he has been hurting some for awhile.

06-17-2006, 07:33 PM
Yeah, for some reason 4 years ago, I tapped a Bats/Clippers game on a what I thought was a blank tape. Guess who was pitching? Mr. Brandon Claussen.

The tape does not lie. Pre-TJ Claussen was touching the low 90's consistantly hitting 93-94 a good deal. That extra velocity gave him more "movement" with his cutter. You can see the late movement against the batters eye, would be beneficial to Claussen. His slider was a real slider then. Hard and down at 85mph.

Claussen is definitely not healthy now. Though even in 2004 he had games were he hit 91-92 more consistantly. His arm must not be well.

06-17-2006, 07:38 PM
If he's torn anything else that might be it for him as an effective (semi?) pitcher

06-18-2006, 12:09 PM
told you guys, he was hurt.