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View Full Version : "...notoriously weak arms.." ???



Ga_Red
06-17-2006, 03:29 AM
2/09/07

KronoRed
06-17-2006, 03:51 AM
That's a new one

MrCinatit
06-17-2006, 08:12 AM
Iwas not aware that the rest of the league thought the Reds had weak arms - however, the ChiSox were rather aggressive on the basepaths. Seemingly more so than any other team they have faced.
Since I do not watdch the Sox day-by-day, I do not know if this is their normal brand of baseball. In watching the Reds day-by-day, I have not noticed any other team being so aggressive against our OF.
I certainly hope it was a fluke. Because if it was not, teams could begin to run at will on us.

RedsManRick
06-17-2006, 10:18 AM
I think he got his positions confused. The weak arm that hurt the Reds belonged to Brandon Claussen.

acredsfan
06-17-2006, 10:42 AM
Thats funny, Griffey and Kearns have two of the better arms in MLB as far as I'm concerned, Dunn doesn't have all that strong of an arm, but it's not terrible.

IslandRed
06-17-2006, 10:48 AM
I agree with that -- I don't think the outfield is subpar at throwing. They're subpar at moving. The Sox' advance scouts probably told them "they're slow getting to the ball, you can get the extra base even with a good throw."

Jpup
06-17-2006, 11:30 AM
Jr.'s arm is horrible. Kearns has a very good arm and Dunn is above average, IMO. You can run on Jr. all day every day and I have noticed it a lot this season.

Candy Cummings
06-17-2006, 12:12 PM
Those extra bases are clearly consistent with the White Sox' philosophy on the basepaths. I always thought Kearns had a good rep for throwing, but the others had some weaknesses.

I don't think this team has any clear strength except offense.

Jpup
06-17-2006, 12:15 PM
Those extra bases are clearly consistent with the White Sox' philosophy on the basepaths. I always thought Kearns had a good rep for throwing, but the others had some weaknesses.

I don't think this team has any clear strength except offense.

I agree. After Harang and Claussen, the pitching is horrendous. The defense is as bad as any in the league.

MWM
06-17-2006, 12:23 PM
They're right. Junior's arm is weak these days, and so is Dunn's, IMO. Dunn's arm isn't all that bad, but he's fairly innacurate which makes his average arm strength a bigger liability. Kearns has a cannon though and you won't see alot of people running on him.

Matt700wlw
06-17-2006, 12:45 PM
Dunn doesn't have all that strong of an arm, but it's not terrible.

He made a heck of a play last night with it.

Reds1
06-17-2006, 12:51 PM
Thats funny, Griffey and Kearns have two of the better arms in MLB as far as I'm concerned, Dunn doesn't have all that strong of an arm, but it's not terrible.

Dunn have a very strong arm. Mr. QB at Texas and he threw a seed to throw out a guy last night. His problem is he can't throw straight. :) I hope they continue to run as we'll throw guys out. Freel has a good arm too!

Mario-Rijo
06-18-2006, 11:00 AM
Jr.'s arm is horrible. Kearns has a very good arm and Dunn is above average, IMO. You can run on Jr. all day every day and I have noticed it a lot this season.

Sorry JPUP you are dead wrong on this one, Jr's arm is still one of the better CF arms in at least the NL. If you all wanna see what a "weak arm" is then watch a Yankees game, then come back and tell me that Jr is below average. The fact is we don't have a "weak arm" in that OF, although we might have an average arm (McCracken). But it's not Dunn, Griffey, Kearns or Freel.

Spitball
06-18-2006, 11:19 AM
Last night, the Chisox announcers were raving about the throws by Dunn and Kearns.

Side Note: Ken Harrelson is my very least favorite announcer.

RedsManRick
06-18-2006, 11:42 AM
Kearns' throw from the warning track to 3rd base when Konerko was tagging was a very strong throw. Fine, he's no Ichiro or Guillen, but I'd put him in the tier below that.

Dunn and Griffey are both probably average to above average for their positions strength wise, but Dunn's accuracy leaves a lot to be desired.

Marc D
06-18-2006, 11:55 AM
My .02

I only saw the first game but they turned 2 singles to CF into 2 doubles within the first 3 innings IIRC. So they were either attacking JR's arm or his ability to get to the ball quickly and field it cleanly. Whichever, they clearly were attacking a percieved weakness. Who cares if his arm is still better than Johnny Damons? So is mine, that doesn't make it good.

As far as Dunn goes, teams have been testing his arm all year. How many assists does he have? I know he made a nice throw last night but overall teams run on him A LOT.

AK is obviously the exception. His arm is strong, accurate and he gets into position to use it better than the other two. If our catchers could receive the throw worth a darn he'd probably have 6-7 more assists than he does right now.

Red in Chicago
06-18-2006, 05:22 PM
except for kearns, the outfield arms leave a lot to be desired...i was at two of the games this weekend and there is no fear in taking the extra base on junior...dunn's arm is average, and the accuracy doesn't really seem to be there, despite getting an assist...

certainly, a person could live with the outfield that we have, but the ridiculous number of throwing errors by the infield and the utter incompetance of the bullpen can push you over the edge...

RFS62
06-18-2006, 05:32 PM
Kearns has a plus arm. Junior is above average. Dunn's arm seemed much stronger when he first came up, but his technique now is just sad.

Most of the time he reminds me of a quarterback rolling out and throwing on the run without very much on it instead of squaring up and crow-hopping towards his target.

pedro
06-18-2006, 05:33 PM
Dunn did make a few nice throws in this series though.

Red in Chicago
06-18-2006, 06:48 PM
Dunn did make a few nice throws in this series though.

and at least one bad one that comes to mind:devil:

Red in Chicago
06-18-2006, 06:50 PM
Kearns has a plus arm. Junior is above average. Dunn's arm seemed much stronger when he first came up, but his technique now is just sad.

Most of the time he reminds me of a quarterback rolling out and throwing on the run without very much on it instead of squaring up and crow-hopping towards his target.

i think you've hit the nail on the head with his "technique" being the problem...he's a bad enough outfielder, but then when you add in that aweful throwing arm, it just adds to the pain of watching him out there

Jpup
06-18-2006, 07:40 PM
Sorry JPUP you are dead wrong on this one, Jr's arm is still one of the better CF arms in at least the NL. If you all wanna see what a "weak arm" is then watch a Yankees game, then come back and tell me that Jr is below average. The fact is we don't have a "weak arm" in that OF, although we might have an average arm (McCracken). But it's not Dunn, Griffey, Kearns or Freel.

I question how many games that you have watched if you say that Jr. has a good arm. Comparing him to Johnny Damon is a poor example. Jr. is horrible on defense in all aspects except for his hands.

Sea Ray
06-19-2006, 12:56 PM
I agree. After Harang and Claussen, the pitching is horrendous. The defense is as bad as any in the league.

How did you come by your definition of horrendous? How is it Claussen doesn't qualify but Arroyo does?

Moosie52
06-19-2006, 01:24 PM
I agree. After Harang and Claussen, the pitching is horrendous. The defense is as bad as any in the league.

After Harang and Arroyo you mean. Claussen could be called horrendous. I don't think Milton and Ramirez are bad. The bullpen is the problem. Dunn made a nice throw to the plate to gun down a Sox runner this series. LaRue had an unassisted double play yesterday. I also saw Junior pull up and let a ball drop in front of him because the infielder (maybe Phillips) was in his way. Maybe Junior is used to teammates letting him catch everything. He needs to use his voice once in a while.

flyer85
06-19-2006, 01:28 PM
when I saw the thread title I was sure this was an article about Reds pitching.

TeamBoone
06-19-2006, 01:51 PM
In addition, there were two very nice throws on this homestand (actually, in the Sox series) that never got a chance to "assist" (one by Kearns and one by Dunn) because they were erroneously cut (one by Hatteburg and one by Freel). Both were dead on throws.

Jpup
06-19-2006, 04:20 PM
How did you come by your definition of horrendous? How is it Claussen doesn't qualify but Arroyo does?

I meant Arroyo.

Mario-Rijo
06-20-2006, 07:51 PM
I question how many games that you have watched if you say that Jr. has a good arm. Comparing him to Johnny Damon is a poor example. Jr. is horrible on defense in all aspects except for his hands.


You can try to question that but you would be wrong again. I may have missed 2-3 this year, how about yourself? Frankly I think where the disagreement comes into play is that people here are saying that Jr.'s arm is weak. Ok to me weak means Jhonny Damon, Strong means Andruw Jones. Weak also doesn't state anything to me except the strength of said arm, not the accuracy, technique or overall arm. So I am clarifying my original stance, Jr's arm is not weak (relative to his position) and it's not the best CF arm either. On the strength alone I would give it a 7 on a scale of 1-10 with Damon being 1 and Jones being a 10. Frankly I would say his technique is usually flawless and his accuracy is about an 7-8. So all in all I would say Jr. is 1 of the better throwing CF's in the game still. I would say you would be hard pressed to find 10 fulltime CF's with as good or better arms than Jr.

Let's see:
NL Central
Wily Taveras-No
Juan Pierre- No
Brady Clark- No
Jim Edmonds- Pretty Close, But I give Jr. the edge.
Nate McLouth- (Pitt) No

NL East
Andruw Jones- Yes
Aaron Rowand- Not sure haven't seen enough
Carlos Beltran- I give Beltran the edge here
Abercrombie- No
Marlon Byrd- No

NL West
Mike Cameron- Yes
Steve Finley- No
Eric Byrnes- No
Kenny Lofton- No

3 for sure maybe a 4th of Rowand stacks up. Feel free to do the AL and come up with 7 more.