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Phhhl
06-17-2006, 10:15 PM
Without question, this is the best ballclub the Reds have faced this year. They rolled out three guys tonight that can hit 97-99 on the gun, WITH command. And, there is more where that came from. They field well and they all can rake. Apparently, Jim Thome couldn't start for them if they were a National League club.

I know they play in a hitter's park, but Konerko, Dye and Crede are absolutely devastating in the middle of that order. It's hard to imagine anybody out there that can look you in the eye and argue that the Yankees or Red Sox are even in the same ballpark with these guys. I hate losing as much as anybody, but you have to respect that team. Anything can happen in the post-season, but they should roll right back into the World Series this year.

pedro
06-17-2006, 10:54 PM
There pitching is good and they have some good players but their outfield is a little weak and Crede is basically Aaron Boone. TMBS, they are a good team and have a good chgace to get back to the series again this year IMO.

Outshined_One
06-17-2006, 11:00 PM
Their advantage is that GM Kenny Williams is willing to make risky deals that could go a long way in improving the team. Their trades for Jim Thome and Javier Vazquez have turned out quite nicely for them, despite giving up some good prospects (Young, Gio).

I fully expect them to make a move for an outfielder and a bullpen arm before the deadline. Their farm system is a bit depleted from their trades, but they still have some talent down there that other teams will happily take.

Johnny Footstool
06-17-2006, 11:42 PM
I wouldn't call acquiring Thome and Vasquez "risky" -- they're both well-established players who were available because they made a lot of money. Give Kenny Williams a mid-market team and I doubt he'd make those deals.

TeamBoone
06-17-2006, 11:47 PM
They definitely are a very good time... and, quite honestly, I think the Reds played them pretty tough today. If it wasn't for the BP blowup, they might even have won this game.

And who knows how yesterday may have turned out had 9 runs not been given up so early.

Anyway, for the most part, I was pretty proud of the Reds today. Wish they could have gotten Milton a win.

Outshined_One
06-18-2006, 12:07 AM
I wouldn't call acquiring Thome and Vasquez "risky" -- they're both well-established players who were available because they made a lot of money. Give Kenny Williams a mid-market team and I doubt he'd make those deals.

Both guys were coming off of pretty bad years and some people were questioning whether or not Thome would ever get back to his former levels. Also, until this season, the White Sox were I believe around $75m in terms of their payroll.

But take a look at the guys Williams has acquired in recent seasons:

Scott Podsednik
Bobby Jenks
Jim Thome
Javier Vazquez
Jermaine Dye
Orlando Hernandez
Dustin Hermanson
AJ Pierzynski
Jose Contreras

Most of these guys were either coming off slumps or were character issues with their previous teams. Williams tends to target guys who are high risk/high reward guys and managed to catch lightning in a bottle with these guys last season.

So far, it's working pretty well for them this season.

MattyHo4Life
06-18-2006, 07:52 AM
I'm very interested in this series, since the Cardinals play the Sox next.

Johnny Footstool
06-18-2006, 12:22 PM
Both guys were coming off of pretty bad years and some people were questioning whether or not Thome would ever get back to his former levels. Also, until this season, the White Sox were I believe around $75m in terms of their payroll.

Chicago is the third largest city in the U.S. It's a huge market, and their ownership can afford a massive payroll.


But take a look at the guys Williams has acquired in recent seasons:

Scott Podsednik
Bobby Jenks
Jim Thome
Javier Vazquez
Jermaine Dye
Orlando Hernandez
Dustin Hermanson
AJ Pierzynski
Jose Contreras

Most of these guys were either coming off slumps or were character issues with their previous teams. Williams tends to target guys who are high risk/high reward guys and managed to catch lightning in a bottle with these guys last season.

So far, it's working pretty well for them this season.

I'm not saying it isn't working out, but I don't think any of those moves were very high-risk. Williams' biggest risk was on Thome, who was injured last season, but he correctly recognized that DHing would keep Thome healthy. Dye was a FA signing who hit according to his career norms last season and is hitting a tick above his norms this year.

His other moves were not quite so brilliant. He gave up Carlos Lee for Podsednik - not a good move at all. Jenks was acquired off waivers for $20K -- that's kind of a no-brainer. He gave up prized CF prospect Chris Young for Vazquez, and now his team is hurting for a CF. Pierzynski and Hermanson were/are nothing special.

Outshined_One
06-18-2006, 03:57 PM
Chicago is the third largest city in the U.S. It's a huge market, and their ownership can afford a massive payroll.

There's a difference between what should have been and what actually was. Reinsdorf was fielding this team on the cheap in recent years, despite having a good TV contract with WGN (thus getting national exposure) and a large fanbase to work with in the south side of Chicago.

However, attendance was completely in the crapper until this team caught fire and headed into the stretch run last season. Their only guaranteed sellouts before those days were Opening Day and against the Cubs; that was pretty much the extent of it.

Things have changed thanks to their playoff run. They have more money to put to use; hence their acquisitions of pricier guys like Vazquez and Thome. More fans come out to the games; sellouts were much more common this year when ticket sales opened up.


I'm not saying it isn't working out, but I don't think any of those moves were very high-risk. Williams' biggest risk was on Thome, who was injured last season, but he correctly recognized that DHing would keep Thome healthy. Dye was a FA signing who hit according to his career norms last season and is hitting a tick above his norms this year.

His other moves were not quite so brilliant. He gave up Carlos Lee for Podsednik - not a good move at all. Jenks was acquired off waivers for $20K -- that's kind of a no-brainer. He gave up prized CF prospect Chris Young for Vazquez, and now his team is hurting for a CF. Pierzynski and Hermanson were/are nothing special.

That's the exact problem with the lightning in a bottle mentality. It worked out in his team's favor last season since Hermanson was one of the key members in their bullpen (especially in the first half of the season), Podsednik gave them a respectable OBP at the top of the order, Pierzynski was a step up from the complete and total black hole they had at catcher in previous years, Contreras was lights out down the stretch and in the playoffs, and so on. Sometimes, everything clicks into place and things just come together.

The problem for the White Sox is already starting to show, as you mentioned with the Chris Young/Brian Anderson CF problem. The White Sox' farm system has been depleted due to these trades, so they have fewer guys who are either able to step up and play and less ammunition to make deals to fill those holes. It got them a World Series trophy, but it will be interesting to see what happens to them as time goes on.

Phhhl
06-18-2006, 04:00 PM
I'm very interested in this series, since the Cardinals play the Sox next.

This time is likely to roll the Cardinals. Two different levels of talent entirely.

KronoRed
06-18-2006, 04:02 PM
I'm very interested in this series, since the Cardinals play the Sox next.
Get ready to rumble.

MattyHo4Life
06-18-2006, 04:14 PM
This time is likely to roll the Cardinals. Two different levels of talent entirely.

The Cards will win this series.

Phhhl
06-18-2006, 04:17 PM
The Cards will win this series.

I hate to say it because I am a National League fan. But, there just isn't a NL club as good as the Chisox right now. Maybe the Cards will win the series. Baseball is difficult to predict. But, the disparity in talent between Chicago and St. Louis is vast. Even if Albert were playing. That's just the facts.

cincyinco
06-21-2006, 04:46 AM
Wow.. 20 runs rang up on the Cards last night.. haha.. loved to see that!

RedFanAlways1966
06-21-2006, 08:01 AM
Wow.. 20 runs rang up on the Cards last night...

And came from "behind" to win the game. They scored 11 runs in the 3rd inning after trailing 1-0. But all the same... losing 20-6 reflects the same in the standings as losing 4-3.

Mulder's ERA jumped to 6.09 by allowing 9ER in 2.1 IP. OUCH! And Ponson came in to pitch the 5th and gave up 6ER in that 1 inning of work. OUCH! Tough to take a loss when your team has 16 hits themselves in the game (givin' up 24 hits doesn't help though).

redsmetz
06-21-2006, 08:29 AM
And came from "behind" to win the game. They scored 11 runs in the 3rd inning after trailing 1-0. But all the same... losing 20-6 reflects the same in the standings as losing 4-3.

Mulder's ERA jumped to 6.09 by allowing 9ER in 2.1 IP. OUCH! And Ponson came in to pitch the 5th and gave up 6ER in that 1 inning of work. OUCH! Tough to take a loss when your team has 16 hits themselves in the game (givin' up 24 hits doesn't help though).

Can I say I took a tiny bit of solace seeing the Cards getting thumped by the Chisox so soundly. It's just one game.

Now if we can just find a way to make our Bullpen not be such a crapshoot. And it's hardly that anymore, it's just nothing at all.

vaticanplum
06-21-2006, 10:06 AM
Wow.. 20 runs rang up on the Cards last night.. haha.. loved to see that!

I did! It was amazing! I was all set, as I always am, to see Vazquez pitch a perfect game, and we got there mid-first and the White Sox were already down 1-0 and my dreams were already shattered. I steered myself for a loss and unbearable Cardinals fans (of whom there were many). And then...bam! bam! bam! Hits! Home runs! Fights! It was like being at the theater. Mulder was terrible, Ponson was crazy, Ozzie was animated, and they got through the White Sox lineup about 15 times, 14 in the third inning alone. Though a couple of the latter innings, the Sox had scored 20 runs, but on "only" 22 hits, which in itself is kind of amazing.

I told my friends that the Cardinals were going to mount a rally in the ninth just to annoy us, because they could score 15 runs and it wouldn't make any difference. and sure enough they did, scoring 4 in the ninth to triple their runs for the game. Alas it made no difference then. All the Cardinals fans were very sad. But I give them credit, they stayed til the end, and hung their heads with the proper degree of shame.

oneupper
06-21-2006, 11:02 AM
A 20-6 game just underscores the need for the DH rule to go...

Heath
06-21-2006, 12:26 PM
A 20-6 game just underscores the need for the DH rule to go...

Or they need a new kicker. They missed extra points.

Glad to have the White Sox do well. It makes Baby Bear fans more nervous.

PuffyPig
06-21-2006, 02:11 PM
The Cards will win this series.
Hey, you said the cards would take the Red's series a few weeks back too.

OnBaseMachine
06-21-2006, 02:45 PM
Hey, you said the cards would take the Red's series a few weeks back too.
I don't think he has ever picked the Cardinals to lose a game.

I loved watching the Cardinals get their butts handed to them. That's how it will be come playoff time, too. That team is overrated, IMO, they have one good starter and two good hitters.

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 03:03 PM
A 20-6 game just underscores the need for the DH rule to go...
Or in Bud land it means the NL needs the DH

HELLO 5 hour games and 21-20 scores ;)

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 03:03 PM
The Cards will win this series.
:devil:


;)

NJReds
06-22-2006, 09:44 AM
Ouch. The Cards got hammered again yesterday...13-5.

You didn't want Marquis on your fantasy team yesterday...LaRussa let him "take one for the team."

5.0 IP, 14 H, 13 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 4 HR allowed

oneupper
06-22-2006, 09:47 AM
Ouch. The Cards got hammered again yesterday...13-5.

You didn't want Marquis on your fantasy team yesterday...LaRussa let him "take one for the team."

5.0 IP, 14 H, 13 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 4 HR allowed

Is Marquis in his contract year?
If so, maybe Jocketty will split the savings with LaRussa. :)

MattyHo4Life
06-22-2006, 11:50 PM
I don't think he has ever picked the Cardinals to lose a game.

I loved watching the Cardinals get their butts handed to them. That's how it will be come playoff time, too. That team is overrated, IMO, they have one good starter and two good hitters.

Oh I have, and they were usually against the Reds. If I remember right, most of the posters here picked the Cardinals to win that series also.

RFS62
06-22-2006, 11:58 PM
they stayed til the end, and hung their heads with the proper degree of shame.


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


I love it.