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View Full Version : Someone get a mirror and check the corpse, it still is breathing



westofyou
06-18-2006, 06:56 PM
On June 1st the Reds were in 2nd place, 29-24, 5 games back and had scored 263 runs and given up 266.

One week later they were 36-24 and had scored 319 runs and given up 290.

Nine days later they are 37-32, in 2nd place, 5 games back and have scored 352 runs and allowed 349.

Up and down, up and down.....

redsmetz
06-18-2006, 07:54 PM
On June 1st the Reds were in 2nd place, 29-24, 5 games back and had scored 263 runs and given up 266.

One week later they were 36-24 and had scored 319 runs and given up 290.

Nine days later they are 37-32, in 2nd place, 5 games back and have scored 352 runs and allowed 349.

Up and down, up and down.....

I think we're getting whiplash, no?

flyer85
06-18-2006, 07:56 PM
when the starting pitching is solid they do well but as soon as it drops a little the bullpen is complete exposed for what it is, worthless.

RFS62
06-19-2006, 12:16 AM
when the starting pitching is solid they do well but as soon as it drops a little the bullpen is complete exposed for what it is, worthless.


Yeah, who knew?

:p:

KronoRed
06-19-2006, 12:24 AM
Yeah, who knew?

:p:
I know who didn't know :devil:

TeamBoone
06-19-2006, 01:21 AM
They lost the game Milton pitched... and he pitched well.

They lost today, and Harang only gave up three runs... he had a quality start.

KronoRed
06-19-2006, 01:22 AM
Starters, Offense = Good
Defense = Bad
Bullpen = Abandon ship.

redsrule2500
06-19-2006, 01:22 AM
The offense is completely random. That's really all it is

pedro
06-19-2006, 01:26 AM
The offense is completely random. That's really all it is

really? The relief pitching is fine then?

OnBaseMachine
06-19-2006, 01:28 AM
really? The relief pitching is fine then?

The relief pitching is fine. The Reds lack of patriotism caused this collapse.

;)

westofyou
06-19-2006, 01:31 AM
The Reds have played 69 games, they have given up 5 or more runs in 34 of those games, that's a hair under half of the games they have played.

If the Reds gave up 5 runs a game for 162 games that would be 810 runs, or 7th worst in modern team history.

As the starters pile on innings the bullpen will be needed more and the wheels will fall off if the current pattern continues.


CINCINNATI REDS

RUNS YEAR R
1 Reds 2004 907
2 Reds 2005 889
3 Reds 2003 886
4 Reds 1930 860
5 Reds 2001 850
6 Reds 1901 818
7 Reds 1934 801
8 Reds 1953 788
9 Reds 1993 785
10 Reds 1957 781

oregonred
06-19-2006, 02:14 AM
Talk about one ugly homestand. The pen was awful but other then the first game, the offense put the team and the starters behind the 8-ball with little offensive support (especially in innings 1-7) in the the entire homestand.

Junior had a huge role in the seemingly long ago eight game winning streak and added essentially zero value during the ten game critical homestand.

KGJ started it on 6/9 at .352 OBP, .925 OPS and a .298BA.

Ended it now sitting at .324 OBP, .830 OPS and a .268BA

Beyond the pitching issues, when your marquee player and fan draw goes 6-37 with 3 walks, 1 HR, 1 2B and 1 RBI and drops his OPS by nearly a 100 points over a ten game homestand -- egad...

KGJ wasn't alone. Kearns was 6-33, 1 HR, 12B, 2 BB and 4 RBI. His OPS dropped 50 points on the homestand.

When two of your three big guns deliver a ten game stretch at the same time the pen totally implodes then it ain't a pretty picture...

pedro
06-19-2006, 02:29 AM
The relief pitching is fine. The Reds lack of patriotism caused this collapse.

;)

This much we can all agree on. :)

Topcat
06-19-2006, 03:21 AM
To be honest the only thing wrong with this team that can be directly fixed is the bullpen.

Caveat Emperor
06-19-2006, 04:26 AM
The relief pitching is fine. The Reds lack of patriotism caused this collapse.

;)

Now that his TV gig is done, maybe we can coax him out of retirement for the closer's spot -- kill two stones with one bird:
http://members.tripod.com/Tiny_Dancer/samflag2.jpg

GAC
06-19-2006, 05:29 AM
On June 1st the Reds were in 2nd place, 29-24, 5 games back and had scored 263 runs and given up 266.

One week later they were 36-24 and had scored 319 runs and given up 290.

Nine days later they are 37-32, in 2nd place, 5 games back and have scored 352 runs and allowed 349.

Up and down, up and down.....

And while the main culprit is the BP. This offense has been up and down too.

I really don't know what it is woy. We're still in the top 10 in Runs (351), Total bases (1067), BB (288), OB% (.342), OPS (.793).

I'm not saying it's a factor, but overall we are 21st in Hits (611), and 22nd in BA (.258).

Now I know there are probably over factors/variables involved; but IMO, this offense is just not clicking like we thought it would.

Again - I agree that a greater improvement would occur if they could improve this BP. But I've watched this team struggle offensively, and basically get dominated by pitchers this year whom, when one looks at their pitching stats, we should be dominating.

GAC
06-19-2006, 06:18 AM
If the Reds gave up 5 runs a game for 162 games that would be 810 runs, or 7th worst in modern team history.

But that is highly improbable though isn't it?


As the starters pile on innings the bullpen will be needed more and the wheels will fall off if the current pattern continues.

And that basically says it all as far as I'm concerned.

RedFanAlways1966
06-19-2006, 07:44 AM
April: 13 quality starts, 11-2 record in those games.
May & June: 25 quality starts, 12-13 record in those games.
>> Combination of inconsistent offense & a bad bullpen.

Bullpen ERA
April: 4.64
May: 4.92
June: 5.65
>> Getting worse by the month. Not to worry as Wayne gets infielders like Juan Castro and decides the pen can be shored up by Mike Burns.

Jpup
06-19-2006, 07:54 AM
April: 13 quality starts, 11-2 record in those games.
May & June: 25 quality starts, 12-13 record in those games.
>> Combination of inconsistent offense & a bad bullpen.

Bullpen ERA
April: 4.64
May: 4.92
June: 5.65
>> Getting worse by the month. Not to worry as Wayne gets infielders like Juan Castro and decides the pen can be shored up by Mike Burns.

take Todd Coffeys numbers out for April and May and it looks even worse.

westofyou
06-19-2006, 09:28 AM
But that is highly improbable though isn't it?No, they did it last year and the year before.

wheels
06-19-2006, 09:33 AM
Losing Encarnacion to injury hasn't helped, either.

westofyou
06-19-2006, 09:38 AM
I really don't know what it is woy. We're still in the top 10 in Runs (351), Total bases (1067), BB (288), OB% (.342), OPS (.793).

I'm not saying it's a factor, but overall we are 21st in Hits (611), and 22nd in BA (.258).32 times out 69 the Reds have scored five or more runs.

Good pitching shuts down good hitting, the Reds have been held to 3 runs or less 26 times.

The thing about batting average in the lineup is that it's iffy and the Reds have no steady BA player to throw in the spots that Narron wants one (contact heavy guys in-between the power LH's) and instead they throw guys like Aurilia and their poor BA affects the lineups scoring abilities.

Throwing Aurlia and Phillips in the top 4 slots can bring alot of 0-5's to the table, those are the players that we want to hoist the Reds with BA, when it works it's the Reds April offense, when they don't it's .500 country.

KronoRed
06-19-2006, 03:39 PM
Now that his TV gig is done, maybe we can coax him out of retirement for the closer's spot -- kill two stones with one bird:
http://members.tripod.com/Tiny_Dancer/samflag2.jpg
Can he pitch?

Cause he seems like he'd scare the opposing teams batters :D

Red Leader
06-19-2006, 04:44 PM
Can he pitch?

Cause he seems like he'd scare the opposing teams batters :D


I think he's got a bum wing...

He's got the mentality of a closer when he's healthy, though.

GAC
06-19-2006, 08:07 PM
No, they did it last year and the year before.

Gave up five runs a game for 162 games? Maybe I'm misreading what you have stated.

westofyou
06-19-2006, 08:11 PM
Gave up five runs a game for 162 games? Maybe I'm misreading what you have stated.
No.... on average.

That would be horrible... ughhh.

But this year they have given up 5 runs or more 49% of the games.

GAC
06-19-2006, 08:14 PM
32 times out 69 the Reds have scored five or more runs.

Good pitching shuts down good hitting, the Reds have been held to 3 runs or less 26 times.

Absolutely.


32 times out 69 the Reds have scored five or more runs.

And in those 32 instances, what were the records/stats of those pitchers that did it? Yes, I'm sure we've faced some darn good pitchers in that spell; but it also seems we faced some pretty mediocre/weak pitchers whom we've proceeded to make look like Cy Young winners.


The thing about batting average in the lineup is that it's iffy and the Reds have no steady BA player to throw in the spots that Narron wants one (contact heavy guys in-between the power LH's) and instead they throw guys like Aurilia and their poor BA affects the lineups scoring abilities.

I thoroughly agree with you there. We definitely have one weak bench IMO. And adding castro sure hasn't helped it.


Throwing Aurlia and Phillips in the top 4 slots can bring alot of 0-5's to the table, those are the players that we want to hoist the Reds with BA, when it works it's the Reds April offense, when they don't it's .500 country.

Again I agree. Both of these guys are "free swingers". The only times I have agreed with RA at cleanup (and even then I'm pretty apprehensive) is when facing a lefty, which he has been having great success against this year.

edabbs44
06-19-2006, 08:18 PM
Losing Encarnacion to injury hasn't helped, either.
That has caused less damage than the bullpen.

wheels
06-19-2006, 10:19 PM
That has caused less damage than the bullpen.


The bullpen doesn't affect run production.