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View Full Version : Is the Braves run officially dead?



M2
06-19-2006, 01:48 AM
Just watched the Red Sox hang the seventh straight loss on the Braves, dropping Atlanta to 30-40, last place in the NL East and a full 14 games behind the Mets.

I know thinking the Braves are out of the race is like thinking you've rid the world of Jason Vorhees, but they sure look like a team that's ready to push up the daisies. Mind you, the NL Wild Card spot currently belongs to the disintegrating Cincinnati Reds and no other club looks like it's ready to pull away from the eight-team scrum in and around the .500 mark.

So is this the season the Braves finally miss the October boat or are they just setting everyone up for their inevitable run?

ramp101
06-19-2006, 01:52 AM
the Braves are done. They should start retooling for a run next season, because we all know they will be back then:devil:

In all seriousness, I still think they have a run in them. 14 games is alot to make up, but they arent out of the wild card by any means.

KronoRed
06-19-2006, 01:55 AM
Considering how bad the NL east is I think they still have a shot.

Aronchis
06-19-2006, 04:46 AM
The NL is toiling in mediocrity right now. About every team is still alive. Have a hot streak, wham.

TeamSelig
06-19-2006, 05:17 AM
They are done. Now chance do the win the NL East... maybe a slight chance for a wild card but I'm really doubting that right now

redsfan4445
06-19-2006, 06:15 AM
Would it be nice to get John Smoltze away from them for the rest of the season for a huge upgrade at SP and also go after bullpen help as a retooling of our team?? i know i know a dream..

RFS62
06-19-2006, 08:48 AM
Stick a fork in 'em

The fat lady is hoarse she's been singing so loud

Jpup
06-19-2006, 08:53 AM
While I won't count them completely out until the season is over, I think Schuerholtz will be unloading junk soon. I'm sure the Reds will get some of it.

RedFanAlways1966
06-19-2006, 09:00 AM
Done, finished, over. An impressive streak for sure that included 3 possible Hall-of-Famers in their starting rotation for many years.

I like to think of the year before the 1st year that started the impressive division-title-streak... as many of you do too!

redsmetz
06-19-2006, 09:03 AM
While I won't count them completely out until the season is over, I think Schuerholtz will be unloading junk soon. I'm sure the Reds will get some of it.

I'm hoping we don't bite. The last ten years or so has shown us not receiving commenserate value from the Braves when trading for pitching.

oneupper
06-19-2006, 09:16 AM
Calling EDSKIN and his ZAPPER!...Are these guys ZAPPED?

Jpup
06-19-2006, 09:18 AM
their bullpen reminds me of another team. :mooner:

Heath
06-19-2006, 09:34 AM
However, the Braves do have some history of last place, 20 games out & last place to World Series winners in the same year.

So, if it was 1914. So the Federal League started that year, the war in Europe was beginning, and pitchers were hard to come by.

I wouldn't count the Braves out until September 30th.

Heath
06-19-2006, 09:34 AM
their bullpen reminds me of another team. :mooner:

Kansas City? Tampa Bay?? :D

OldXOhio
06-19-2006, 09:39 AM
This team has been proving doubters wrong for years. I don't care how bad things look, I'll only believe the Braves are dead when they're mathematically eliminated.

Unassisted
06-19-2006, 09:59 AM
I think the lack of Leo Mazzone in the dugout greatly hinders the Braves chances for a turnaround. Braves fans had better hope that Sam Perlozzo's stint in the Orioles' dugout is a short one, because Leo won't be back in Atlanta until Perlozzo is out of Baltimore.

flyer85
06-19-2006, 10:06 AM
Their run of division titles is over, as bad as the wild card contenders seem to be I wouldn't count anyone out.

gm
06-19-2006, 12:11 PM
I think the lack of Leo Mazzone in the dugout greatly hinders the Braves chances for a turnaround. Braves fans had better hope that Sam Perlozzo's stint in the Orioles' dugout is a short one, because Leo won't be back in Atlanta until Perlozzo is out of Baltimore.

Ding-ding-ding...rockin' Leo meant more to that franchise than they knew

Until he left the ATL

Roy Tucker
06-19-2006, 12:45 PM
From all appearances they look dead. But I'll add my voice to the "I believe it when I see it" chorus.

Funny, but for such a long time (like 1970-1990), they were the sad sacks of the NL West. You could always count on them to be a losing streak buster.

Then, it was a bit refreshing when they won in 1991 and 1992 and had their classic WS with the Twins and the NLCS's against the Pirates. It was nice to see them have some success.

But then, Atlanta got used to winning very quickly and their fans got insufferable (kind of like Cubs fans) and it got old fast. And then it was years worth of the Braves beating the snot out of the Reds.

15fan
06-19-2006, 01:40 PM
I don't know that Leo Mazzone could do much with the collection of arms that the Braves are running out there in 2005.

I'm convinced that they don't have "it" this year. But when I look at the other teams in their division (Mets / Phils / Marlins / Nationals), I don't see any teams that have a history of sealing the deal. So I'll hold off on planning the wake for a little while longer.

Offensively, Adam LaRoche is a black hole, and Chipper Jones hasn't been much better. Francouer's .716 OPS hasn't been helping the cause, either.
I'd have to think that there'd be a market for Edgar Renteria if Schuerholz wants to sell this year at the deadline. Giles hasn't been his usual self, though I think he & his wife have been dealing with some off-the-field medical issues with one of their young children.

If I was in Schuerholz's shoes, I'd give some serious thought to shopping Andruw Jones this offseason.

KronoRed
06-19-2006, 04:37 PM
Their run of division titles is over, as bad as the wild card contenders seem to be I wouldn't count anyone out.
And like 94 expect them to use some sort of logic to claim "15 straight somethings" ;)

Chip R
06-19-2006, 04:45 PM
And like 94 expect them to use some sort of logic to claim "15 straight somethings" ;)

Yeah, that burns me too.

It'll be interesting what the crowds will look like at the Ted in August and September if their slide continues.

IslandRed
06-19-2006, 05:43 PM
All I know is this -- I met my beloved in the early 1990s. She was an honest-to-gosh long-suffering Braves fan. Even had a Milwaukee Braves replica cap. Since then, we've courted, married, had two children and moved twice. In all that time, the Reds have never won more games than the Braves, made the playoffs just the once -- in the year the Braves won the World Series. She's never given me grief about it. Not in the slightest. But dangit, I really, really want the Reds to win more games than the Braves for once!

RFS62
06-19-2006, 05:55 PM
I live in Braves country (ugh). I'm really enjoying all the wailing and gnashing of teeth (some have more than others).

The Cubs fan comparison is a good one. The Tomahawk Chop is an abomination.

I have the utmost respect for their front office, but their so called fans make me crazy.

WebScorpion
06-20-2006, 01:22 PM
It will be interesting to see what they do at the break... I don't think they've ever been sellers. Unfortunately, they don't have any usable middle relief for us to acquire. :p:

Marc D
06-20-2006, 04:31 PM
Their run of division titles is over, as bad as the wild card contenders seem to be I wouldn't count anyone out.

As profoundly flawed as we are I still think the WC will come down to the Reds or the Astros.

The reason is, I think the Mets will keep mowing the NL east and the teams are all pretty bad. The NL west is so balanced they'll keep each other hovering just a few games over .500 all year even though I think AZ and LA are better than us in the long run.

I don't think we are any great shakes but when you look around we are one of the tallest midgets.

Marc D
06-21-2006, 12:18 AM
As profoundly flawed as we are I still think the WC will come down to the Reds or the Astros.

The reason is, I think the Mets will keep mowing the NL east and the teams are all pretty bad. The NL west is so balanced they'll keep each other hovering just a few games over .500 all year even though I think AZ and LA are better than us in the long run.

I don't think we are any great shakes but when you look around we are one of the tallest midgets.

OK slap me.

No team with a pen like ours can even play .500 ball. Not sure what I was thinking.

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 01:04 AM
I will not slap

I will however MOCK

*Mock*

Remember this well ;)

RedsBaron
06-21-2006, 02:11 PM
Assuming the streak is over, the Braves winning 14 straight divisional titles is both impressive and overrated at the same time. Obviously, finishing first 14 times in 15 years is impressive (had it not been for the lockout in 1994, the Braves probably would have had an 11 year, not a 14 year streak, as the Expos were in first when the 1994 season came to a premature end).
However, the Braves record of making the posteason was hugely helped by the expansion of the NL and the dividing of the league into three divisions. Without looking it up, I would be surprised if the Braves had the best record in the league for five straight years, as the 1949-53 and the 1960-64 Yankees did.

Chip R
06-22-2006, 02:26 AM
However, the Braves record of making the posteason was hugely helped by the expansion of the NL and the dividing of the league into three divisions. Without looking it up, I would be surprised if the Braves had the best record in the league for five straight years, as the 1949-53 and the 1960-64 Yankees did.

You have to remember, though, when they split into 3 divisions they were put in with Philly and NY. Two teams in larger markets who aren't afraid to spend a buck. Not that the Braves were scared to spend money until recently but it's always a bigger challenge when you are in with large market teams as TOR, BAL and TB know very well. I give them tons of credit. They were smart and things worked out well for them.

KronoRed
06-22-2006, 03:12 AM
Lets go to the books :D

1991..Braves 91 wins were 2nd to Pittsburgh's 98
1992..Braves 98 wins lead the league
1993..Braves 104 wins lead the league
1994..We all know the Expos were going all the way ;)
1995..Braves 90 wins lead the league
1996..Braves 96 wins lead the league
1997..Braves 101 wins lead the league
1998..Braves 106 wins lead the league
1999..Braves 103 wins lead the league
2000..Braves 95 wins ties with St.Louis for the tops, in the no division NL they would have played for it, in the 2 division NL they would have met in the NLCS
2001..Braves 88 wins is tied for 5th best in the NL, in no division NL and 2 division NL they are 5 games out.
2002..Braves 101 wins lead the league
2003..Braves 101 wins lead the league, special note the Giants were 1 game back and only played 161 games
2004..Braves 96 wins is 2nd to St.Louis, in no division NL they are 9 games out, 2 division they win the west.
2005..Braves 90 wins is 2nd to St.Louis, in no division NL they are 10 games out, 2 division they win the west.

So let's review

If the NL was still just 1 huge division, the Braves would have 9 titles, with 5 in a row from 1995-1999, 1 tie and 1 potential tie.

If the NL had stayed in the 2 division format, they would have 12 titles, with 6 in a row from 1995-2000 and 1 potential tie.

RedsBaron
06-22-2006, 08:48 AM
The Tomahawk Chop is an abomination.


Didn't the Braves steal the "chop" from Florida State?
Oh, thanks to Krono for the research into the Braves records. I was wrong. Their regular season performance is even more impressive than I thought.

15fan
06-22-2006, 09:42 AM
Oh, thanks to Krono for the research into the Braves records. I was wrong. Their regular season performance is even more impressive than I thought.

The counter argument is that they got the benefit of playing an unbalanced schedule against weak teams since the move to 3 divisions. That means they played the lion's share of their games against Philly, Montreal / DC, Florida, and the Mets.

For the most part, those franchises have been pretty rotten over the past...well, forever.

KronoRed
06-22-2006, 04:16 PM
There is probably some way to avg out division win percentage and the like but I have no clue how to do it :)

Chip R
06-22-2006, 04:46 PM
The counter argument is that they got the benefit of playing an unbalanced schedule against weak teams since the move to 3 divisions. That means they played the lion's share of their games against Philly, Montreal / DC, Florida, and the Mets.

For the most part, those franchises have been pretty rotten over the past...well, forever.

That's true but our division has the Brewers and Pirates in it and up until about 4 years ago the Cubs were pretty mediocre too. Pretty much every division save for the AL West has a couple of weak sisters in it.

Tony Cloninger
06-22-2006, 11:50 PM
Off the top of my head....the Braves were about 22-29 and in last place back in 1992. The Reds were considered the best team coming out of ST.
They had acquired the pitching (Belcher/Swindell) to help.... and looked to be a good bet with dual closers Dibble?charlton to win.

The Braves were still considered almost one of those 1 year fluke teams from 1991.

Then the Braves did something they become really good at and well known for. When the pretenders started swooning in June...they turned it on and just overtook the rest of the NL West. It was like the old days when the BRM would be behind the Dodgers in April/May but it always felt like the Dodgers were chasing the Reds. They would just win....night after night.

They rolled out freaking Pete Smith ....who went 7-0 that year, down the stretch. They would have hitters like Brian L. Hunter (their Hal King) who would come up with big hits. Of course it helped to have that great pitching...even Charlie Liebrandt pitched very well for them.

I just remember that the Reds really had about 10 blown saves that year....both Dibble and Charlton blew about 5 of them each.....and they were not pretty either. The big one might have been the... Dibble rips his shirt off on ESPN sunday night game after giving up a GW homer to Bonilla debacle.
That Wetteland for Dave Martinez deal really sucked.....but John would have only been a set up guy anyways....i doubt Pinella would have made him the closer over the other 2. I just think that as good as the bullpen was....they also lost it for them too. PLUS...this was the year the team soured on Paul O'Neill and his inconsistent hitting.

Some good and BAD memories of that year.


I think this year's Braves pitching is below avg. to downright awful (bullpen) but i will not count out those guys...until they are buried with no signs of life at all. They have turned it on before..... they have a lot of talent on offense. Just a lot of young guys though going through some growing pains and lack of confidence.

Jpup
06-25-2006, 07:20 AM
The Braves have now lost 21 of 25. Stick a fork in them. I said I wouldn't ever count them out, but I have to change my mind on this one. They are 31-44, 15.5 games out. The Braves in the cellar, who da thunk it? :eek: