PDA

View Full Version : EXTRA TOP SECRET!!! Italian World Cup Training Video TOP SECRET!!!



WMR
06-19-2006, 02:03 AM
I advise you to watch the video. It is painful to watch, but it is a video that every American should see if you want a first-hand account of the tactics employed by the Italians when they play Soccer.

Someone has uncovered this Top Secret video of the Italians prepping for World Cup 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccDyp2aRRCg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Esoccer%2Dweblog%2Ecom%2Fin dex%2Ephp%3Fpage%3D2

MWM
06-19-2006, 08:56 AM
That's freaking AWESOME!!!!!!!

RFS62
06-19-2006, 09:28 AM
I don't know diddly about soccer. But I've been hearing a lot about this "flopping" deal.

Is this really a widespread thing? Sounds pretty disgraceful to an outsider.

NJReds
06-19-2006, 09:33 AM
I don't know diddly about soccer. But I've been hearing a lot about this "flopping" deal.

Is this really a widespread thing? Sounds pretty disgraceful to an outsider.

It's fairly common. And it's annoying. The refs get criticized for calls/non-calls on fouls - but honestly from their perspective, it's tough to tell with these guys diving around the pitch. In hockey, diving is considered taboo .. in soccer, it's accepted for the most part.

RFS62
06-19-2006, 09:36 AM
It's fairly common. And it's annoying. The refs get criticized for calls/non-calls on fouls - but honestly from their perspective, it's tough to tell with these guys diving around the pitch. In hockey, diving is considered taboo .. in soccer, it's accepted for the most part.


Hmmmm. Makes me think they should adopt the hockey fighting ways. If a guy flops, give him something to really flop about.

Soccer goons.

reds1869
06-19-2006, 10:32 AM
Hmmmm. Makes me think they should adopt the hockey fighting ways. If a guy flops, give him something to really flop about.

Soccer goons.

You'd love Scottish soccer, methinks.

IslandRed
06-19-2006, 10:38 AM
In hockey, diving is considered taboo .. in soccer, it's accepted for the most part.

I wonder if that's one of the reasons why the sport has a tough time reaching the mass market here. The American sporting character demands that its athletes not only be tough but act tough -- take a hit, and if you go down get back up, and it didn't hurt. Now, we know that soccer can be rough-and-tumble and elite players have to be tough, but with the diving and injury-faking and whining at the refs, they come across as something less than tough. There's plenty of room for gamesmanship in American sport, but acting like a candy-youknowwhat doesn't play.

I've also wondered why there's only one official on the field with all that ground to cover. I understand it at the lower levels, but in the premier leagues and FIFA events, you'd think they'd pony up for a better level of officiating.

reds1869
06-19-2006, 10:45 AM
I wonder if that's one of the reasons why the sport has a tough time reaching the mass market here. The American sporting character demands that its athletes not only be tough but act tough -- take a hit, and if you go down get back up, and it didn't hurt. Now, we know that soccer can be rough-and-tumble and elite players have to be tough, but with the diving and injury-faking and whining at the refs, they come across as something less than tough. There's plenty of room for gamesmanship in American sport, but acting like a candy-youknowwhat doesn't play.

I feel this is one of the reasons the US doesn't win more foul calls actually. We don't act hurt, so the refs who are used to seeing untouched guys rolling like they've been shot don't make the call. Bake McBride was the perfect example of this behavior (though he won the card): he's gushing blood from his head and walking around like nothing happened. There is a machismo attitude in American sport, even among soccer players.

dabvu2498
06-19-2006, 12:24 PM
Every basketball team I've ever been around practiced adding a little bit of oooomph to taking a charging foul. Granted, the opportunity to use this doesn't come up like it does in soccer, but if you watch a college or pro hoops game, you'll see guys flopping quite a bit.

Outshined_One
06-19-2006, 03:03 PM
This video was funny four years ago and still is funny today. :D

reds1869
06-19-2006, 03:10 PM
If you want to see world class flopping that makes even the Italians look like models of purity, watch Argentine soccer sometime. And for you soccer haters, there are fairly frequent donnybrooks, too.

SeeinRed
06-19-2006, 08:23 PM
Every basketball team I've ever been around practiced adding a little bit of oooomph to taking a charging foul. Granted, the opportunity to use this doesn't come up like it does in soccer, but if you watch a college or pro hoops game, you'll see guys flopping quite a bit.

Yeah, but that is mostly so players don't get hurt in basketball. Every once in a while you'll see a player just flat out sell a charge with his acting, but most of the time there was or would have been contact if he stands in. If a player really stood in and took a charge, they would be hurting pretty good. Besides there is a difference between acting hurt and just acting like you were knocked down.

LawFive
06-19-2006, 10:56 PM
It's fairly common. And it's annoying. The refs get criticized for calls/non-calls on fouls - but honestly from their perspective, it's tough to tell with these guys diving around the pitch. In hockey, diving is considered taboo .. in soccer, it's accepted for the most part.

I'd agree - as a 18 year referee in everything from kindergarten games to small college - that it is difficult to tell. However, rest assured that if we know it's a fake dive, the punishment is swift. Mandatory Yellow for unsporting behavior.

NJReds
06-20-2006, 09:33 AM
Yeah, but that is mostly so players don't get hurt in basketball. Every once in a while you'll see a player just flat out sell a charge with his acting

Shane Battier comes to mind.

dabvu2498
06-20-2006, 09:34 AM
Shane Battier comes to mind.
James Posey in the NBA Finals.

SeeinRed
06-20-2006, 06:33 PM
NJReds and dabvu, you are both right in the players you select, but the fact that you can name the player, and in dabvu's case even the specific time shows that it is not that common of an event. There's not doubt it happens, but it also happens in (american) football, a contact sport. Its just a lot more noticable in soccer. To me, the biggest difference is that in soccer they don't just act like there was contact, they act hurt.

dabvu2498
06-20-2006, 10:06 PM
To me, the biggest difference is that in soccer they don't just act like there was contact, they act hurt.
Yeah, you're right about the hurt part.

There are several other "flop artists" in the NBA. Like every 6'3-6-7 guy in the Eastern Conference when Lebron James has the ball.

As an aside, I had the privilege of watching a Michigan State mens basketball practice in East Lansing. Izzo got out football pads and helmets for 2 rebounding drills and charge drill. It was un-freakin-believeable. Sorta the anti-Italian National Team practice.

WMR
03-02-2007, 07:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iksdzlIOn3k&NR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAL2DAXR3H8&mode=related&search=

The second one is REALLY bad. Gotta love those Italians.

HumnHilghtFreel
03-02-2007, 07:16 AM
Manu Ginobili is one of the best floppers in the NBA. Me thinks this is because he comes from what is a soccer country in Argentina.

paintmered
03-02-2007, 08:46 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iksdzlIOn3k&NR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAL2DAXR3H8&mode=related&search=

The second one is REALLY bad. Gotta love those Italians.

I applaud the ref for showing cards to all the actors. That's the only way it will ever stop.

NJReds
03-02-2007, 10:14 AM
It's not just the Italians. Did you ever see the Mexican national team? Actually any game w/Latin American players. Well...pretty much soccer in general.

RedFanAlways1966
03-02-2007, 02:36 PM
And don't kid yourself: discussing racist/classist epithets is a political discussion, regardless whether or not the words "Democrat" or "Republican" are mixed in.

Does this apply to labeling the athletes of an entire nation? Not that I care about the Italian, Mexican or any South American soccer teams. Just want things to be consistent.

Cannot remember who said the above, but can that person step up and let us know if this thread is too political for their personal tastes? If not, perhaps they can make posts that turn the tide so that it will be shut down by a mod.

Thanks! :)

WMR
03-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Does this apply to labeling the athletes of an entire nation? Not that I care about the Italian, Mexican or any South American soccer teams. Just want things to be consistent.

Cannot remember who said the above, but can that person step up and let us know if this thread is too political for their personal tastes? If not, perhaps they can make posts that turn the tide so that it will be shut down by a mod.

Thanks! :)

::dodges shrapnel:: :laugh:

Is it a stereotype if it's true?

WMR
03-02-2007, 06:30 PM
It's not just the Italians. Did you ever see the Mexican national team? Actually any game w/Latin American players. Well...pretty much soccer in general.

Anglo-Saxons typically don't dive... Brits, Scots, Micks, Aussies, and Yanks

OldRightHander
03-03-2007, 08:44 AM
Anglo-Saxons typically don't dive... Brits, Scots, Micks, Aussies, and Yanks

Actually, the Scots and Micks aren't Anglo-Saxons, if I can be allowed that one nit to pick. That could go for a large number of the white Aussies as well.

Don't mistake a Celt for a Saxon. :duel:

WMR
03-03-2007, 08:52 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere


The term incorporates ideas about history, geography, politics, legal systems, and economics, and its definition is necessarily loose.[1] It can mean just English-speaking nations, or it may mean all the nations which use legal systems based on Common law. It can also be seen as an expansion of Atlanticism, a much older concept in international relations, to include Pacific nations such as Australia and New Zealand. It also fills a gap in the English vocabulary corresponding roughly to the French phrase le monde Anglo-Saxon. Thus, it could carry a wide variety of connotations.

According to Bennett, "the Anglosphere is not a club that a person or nation can join or be excluded from, but a condition or status on a network",[2] and

... as a network civilization ... without a corresponding political form, has necessarily imprecise boundaries. Geographically, the densest nodes of the Anglosphere are found in the United States and the United Kingdom, while Anglophone regions of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland, and South Africa are powerful and populous outliers. The educated English-speaking populations of the Caribbean, Oceania, Africa and India pertain to the Anglosphere to various degrees.[3]
Historian Robert Conquest has also promoted the concept.[4] John Ibbitson of the Canadian newspaper The Globe and Mail identified five core English-speaking countries with common sociopolitical heritage and goals: Australia, Canada, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Writer Mark Steyn, who uses the term often, takes it to denote the nations that were or have been part of the British Empire for a significant period of time, and thus were heavily subject to British political influence: Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom and the United States at the core, then India, New Zealand, and South Africa, and finally outliers like Grenada and St. Lucia.[5][6]

OldRightHander
03-03-2007, 08:56 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglosphere

I was just picking at you, but anyway, it's always rubbed me the wrong way that people use that term too broadly. In my book, there's more to grouping people than just by language. I used to fight with college professors for calling me a WASP too. It's just in my nature to nitpick things like that.

WMR
03-03-2007, 08:59 AM
I was just picking at you, but anyway, it's always rubbed me the wrong way that people use that term too broadly. In my book, there's more to grouping people than just by language. I used to fight with college professors for calling me a WASP too. It's just in my nature to nitpick things like that.

Yeah I know what you're saying... I watch a bunch of soccer, though, and it really is compelling and interesting as to how those nations I brought up see diving in soccer as a taboo... can't remember a single instance of seeing a man from one of those countries try to draw a penalty through such means.

Falls City Beer
03-03-2007, 09:06 AM
I was just picking at you, but anyway, it's always rubbed me the wrong way that people use that term too broadly. In my book, there's more to grouping people than just by language. I used to fight with college professors for calling me a WASP too. It's just in my nature to nitpick things like that.

Why would your college professors call you a WASP? That seems a bit unprofessional.

OldRightHander
03-03-2007, 09:07 AM
Yeah I know what you're saying... I watch a bunch of soccer, though, and it really is compelling and interesting as to how those nations I brought up see diving in soccer as a taboo... can't remember a single instance of seeing a man from one of those countries try to draw a penalty through such means.

That's quite true, and has probably cost the US team a few goals over the years. I still remember McBride's bloody face and he didn't even go down after that elbow. I watch a lot of EPL and you hardly ever see a dive, but tune into Serie A...

Falls City Beer
03-03-2007, 09:17 AM
Anglo-Saxons typically don't dive... Brits, Scots, Micks, Aussies, and Yanks

Do Germans? Scandinavians? Ottoman Turks?

I don't think it's a machismo thing, I think it's a theatrical thing. Some cultures view sport in different terms; some enjoy amping it up with drama and expression, and, yes, rule-bending. What's more Anglo-Saxon than bending the rules?

WMR
03-03-2007, 09:18 AM
No I should have mentioned them. Germans abhor diving as well. And their Scandinavian counterparts don't seem to be divers either.

WMR
03-03-2007, 09:23 AM
Do Germans? Scandinavians? Ottoman Turks?

I don't think it's a machismo thing, I think it's a theatrical thing. Some cultures view sport in different terms; some enjoy amping it up with drama and expression, and, yes, rule-bending. What's more Anglo-Saxon than bending the rules?

It seems like they draw a distinction between 'rule bending' and the outright duplicitiousness of simulation... is it machismo? I'm not sure. But certain cultures definitely seem to draw a line and create this distinction... it'd make an interesting study to find out exactly why.

OldRightHander
03-03-2007, 09:32 AM
Why would your college professors call you a WASP? That seems a bit unprofessional.

He was a bit unprofessional. A lot of what happened in that class could be good discussion fodder for the Peanut Gallery.

Falls City Beer
03-03-2007, 09:39 AM
Does this apply to labeling the athletes of an entire nation? Not that I care about the Italian, Mexican or any South American soccer teams. Just want things to be consistent.

Cannot remember who said the above, but can that person step up and let us know if this thread is too political for their personal tastes? If not, perhaps they can make posts that turn the tide so that it will be shut down by a mod.

Thanks! :)

No, but personal attacks are forbidden on the site, too. :)

Hey, you don't have to convince me to go full-out political on the non-baseball side of things.

I loved it when it got down and dirty. I say bring back political and religious threads full bloody time. I'll raise a toast to that!

I just don't dig it when guys like GAC get to take Republican sideswipes ("Hey! White middle-class American men are people TOO!") with impunity. That's all.

Back to your regularly scheduled race-baiting.

Yachtzee
03-03-2007, 09:46 AM
Do Germans? Scandinavians? Ottoman Turks?

I don't think it's a machismo thing, I think it's a theatrical thing. Some cultures view sport in different terms; some enjoy amping it up with drama and expression, and, yes, rule-bending. What's more Anglo-Saxon than bending the rules?

I think its pretty cynical, the "Italian Way." On one end of the field, a player will throw an elbow to the face and on the other end he drops if someone breathes on him and rolls around like he's been shot. That's not soccer. It's pro wrestling. I get the impression that in the Italian game, they'd rather win on a cheap penalty kick than a straight goal in regular play.

Falls City Beer
03-03-2007, 09:48 AM
I think its pretty cynical, the "Italian Way." On one end of the field, a player will throw an elbow to the face and on the other end he drops if someone breathes on him and rolls around like he's been shot. That's not soccer. It's pro wrestling. I get the impression that in the Italian game, they'd rather win on a cheap penalty kick than a straight goal in regular play.

Yeah, I don't watch soccer. You would likely know better. I don't pretend to know what's going on in the minds of men I've never seen, much less met.

OldRightHander
03-03-2007, 09:53 AM
I don't think it has to be a racial discussion, but the way different cultures approach sports would be a pretty interesting discussion, not just relating to soccer, but other sports as well. Some of the international basketball has shown some differing styles of play and we saw what happened to the US team there. Pick any sport that's played internationally and I'm sure you could come up with some intriguing cultural differences.

Yachtzee
03-03-2007, 10:04 AM
Yeah, I don't watch soccer. You would likely know better. I don't pretend to know what's going on in the minds of men I've never seen, much less met.

Well, the way the rules of soccer are set up, giving one team a penalty kick can be devastating to the other team. When you see the high rate of flopping in the penalty area and the overreacting in order to "sell" the penalty, you can pretty much see what they're after, not unlike when Craig Biggio stands over the plate covered in body armor. Except Biggio doesn't get a free game of "Home Run Derby" if he gets hit by a pitch.

I don't think the style of play has as much to do with being Italian or Mediterranean for that matter as much as it has to do with what style of play is promoted in the professional leagues in those countries. You see a lot of foreign players, many from Mediterranean countries, in the EPL, the Bundesliga, the Scandinavian leagues and even in the MLS. But you don't see the flopping. Players, regardless of nationality, will generally modify their style of play depending on where they're playing. That's why I've seen so-called "Anglo-Saxon" types playing in Serie A taking dives just like the rest of them. The Italians get made fun of for it because they've carried that style of play on to their national team, which many people watching the World Cup found objectionable.

westofyou
03-03-2007, 10:18 AM
The lure of the set play is a tool of the smaller teams in international play, the latin teams seem to be smaller then the Northern Europeans and in head to head competitions that creates a conflicting style of play, one that is often on the International stage and one that holds greater impact in the end result.

Hence the increased impact of set plays, and the increase in flopping.

In the pro leagues there is usually a mix of sizes and styles that greatly reduces the flopping, mostly because teams strength isn't just focused on skill players, there is more brute strength in the EPL and with that comes an increased tolerance from the refs, with that increased tolerance comes the fact that flopping is looked at as a lesser part of the game and it won't be a carrot for the refs to follow.

NJReds
03-03-2007, 10:58 AM
I think its pretty cynical, the "Italian Way." On one end of the field, a player will throw an elbow to the face and on the other end he drops if someone breathes on him and rolls around like he's been shot. That's not soccer. It's pro wrestling. I get the impression that in the Italian game, they'd rather win on a cheap penalty kick than a straight goal in regular play.


If you think that this is only syptamatic of the Italians, then you don't watch much soccer. The French earned penalty kicks against the Portuguese and Italians in the WC on blatent dives. Watch Mexico v. the US and it's exactly as you stated...cheap shots on one side, theatrics on the other. As long as it's tolerated by officials and the people running the game, then it'll keep happening.

Yachtzee
03-03-2007, 11:25 AM
If you think that this is only syptamatic of the Italians, then you don't watch much soccer. The French earned penalty kicks against the Portuguese and Italians in the WC on blatent dives. Watch Mexico v. the US and it's exactly as you stated...cheap shots on one side, theatrics on the other. As long as it's tolerated by officials and the people running the game, then it'll keep happening.

I didn't mean to imply it was only the Italians. I just call it the "Italian" way because, IMO, the Italian leagues seem to represent the gold standard on this style of play. What I dislike about it is that they have some incredibly talented and skillful players who show incredible finesse and ball control. When they just play the game, it's very compelling. Unfortunately, once the diving and theatrics start, the game seems to grind to a halt while the ref cards everyone and they get the set piece ready. If there could be two things I could eliminate from International Football, it would be diving and the offside trap as a legitimate defensive tactic.

Hoosier Red
03-03-2007, 01:20 PM
I don't watch nearly enough to know, but in reading "How Soccer explains the world,"(An excellent book btw.)

They explain that Italians more than any other team seem to play an overly defensive game. Keeping an extra back behind the fullbacks to play "sweeper."
When played correctly diving is almost necessary because scoring on anything other than a set piece or a penalty shot is basically impossible.

Again people who watch more soccer than I can attest to the accuracy of the statement.

Betterread
03-03-2007, 02:51 PM
If you think that this is only syptamatic of the Italians, then you don't watch much soccer. The French earned penalty kicks against the Portuguese and Italians in the WC on blatent dives. Watch Mexico v. the US and it's exactly as you stated...cheap shots on one side, theatrics on the other. As long as it's tolerated by officials and the people running the game, then it'll keep happening.

Of course you're right. This discussion has been held before on this website and the same people are reiterating the same national stereoptypes. Ignorance is slow to change.

Betterread
03-03-2007, 02:52 PM
Yeah I know what you're saying... I watch a bunch of soccer, though, and it really is compelling and interesting as to how those nations I brought up see diving in soccer as a taboo... can't remember a single instance of seeing a man from one of those countries try to draw a penalty through such means.

Arguably the biggest stars for their countries, Michael Ballack (german) and Steven Gerrard (British) have been caught on videotape diving, often with great success. Sheffield united manager Neil Warnock loudly criticised Gerrard for simulating in the Feb. 23 game vrs/ Sheffield United - it was one of the bigger stories of the EPL last week. Do you follow the EPL? If you don't you would see lots of diving by players from all countries.

MWM
03-03-2007, 03:39 PM
The biggest flopper of them all plays in the EPL on the EPL's most recognizable team. No one can flop like Cristiano.

NJReds
03-03-2007, 03:50 PM
The biggest flopper of them all plays in the EPL on the EPL's most recognizable team. No one can flop like Cristiano.

My buddy is Portuguese and I give him flak about CR all the time.

paintmered
03-03-2007, 04:03 PM
The biggest flopper of them all plays in the EPL on the EPL's most recognizable team. No one can flop like Cristiano.

Cristiano flops if he gets looked at wrong.

WMR
03-03-2007, 08:44 PM
Of course you're right. This discussion has been held before on this website and the same people are reiterating the same national stereoptypes. Ignorance is slow to change.


Arguably the biggest stars for their countries, Michael Ballack (german) and Steven Gerrard (British) have been caught on videotape diving, often with great success. Sheffield united manager Neil Warnock loudly criticised Gerrard for simulating in the Feb. 23 game vrs/ Sheffield United - it was one of the bigger stories of the EPL last week. Do you follow the EPL? If you don't you would see lots of diving by players from all countries.

There's an exception to every rule, but if you don't think certain nations have a footballing culture wherein diving is more accepted as a genuine tactic than in other places around the world, you're the one spouting ignorance.

Betterread
03-03-2007, 09:16 PM
There's an exception to every rule, but if you don't think certain nations have a footballing culture wherein diving is more accepted as a genuine tactic than in other places around the world, you're the one spouting ignorance.

You are aware that the video that started this thread is intended to deride the very POV that you are desperately trying to cling to, right?
In Italy and Brazil, coaching and teaching good technical skills and communicating tactical awareness is a priority. Are there players from those countries that simulate being fouled - yes - but that does not diminish the efforts of all the people from those countries who teach the proper way to play.
It is unfair and ignorant to take the conduct of an individual and attribute it to a dubious national characteristic. However, (ignorant) people do it all the time, and it creates tension and hatred. Don't settle for a typical, ignorant world view, you are demonstrably capable of more understanding than that.

WMR
03-04-2007, 12:35 AM
You are aware that the video that started this thread is intended to deride the very POV that you are desperately trying to cling to, right?
In Italy and Brazil, coaching and teaching good technical skills and communicating tactical awareness is a priority. Are there players from those countries that simulate being fouled - yes - but that does not diminish the efforts of all the people from those countries who teach the proper way to play.
It is unfair and ignorant to take the conduct of an individual and attribute it to a dubious national characteristic. However, (ignorant) people do it all the time, and it creates tension and hatred. Don't settle for a typical, ignorant world view, you are demonstrably capable of more understanding than that.

I appreciate what you're saying, BR, but I've just seen too much Italian soccer to knock it off as a totally unfair and unearned prejudice.

Next you'll be telling me that the Mexican national team isn't a bunch of whiners and hack artists? :laugh: ;)

RawOwl UK
03-04-2007, 05:37 AM
Arguably the biggest stars for their countries, Michael Ballack (german) and Steven Gerrard (British) have been caught on videotape diving, often with great success. Sheffield united manager Neil Warnock loudly criticised Gerrard for simulating in the Feb. 23 game vrs/ Sheffield United - it was one of the bigger stories of the EPL last week. Do you follow the EPL? If you don't you would see lots of diving by players from all countries.

Are you saying Gerrard dived ? In the first game of the season Gerrard avoided an attempted tackle by Chris Morgan of Sheff Utd to win the ball, if he did not avoid the challenge chances are he would have been fouled and gained a penalty. What he did was avoid the tackle but lost his footing which the referee saw as intent to foul Gerrard .

A penalty was given (rightly or wrongly) . For me Gerrard did not dive but reacted to a lunge from a defender and just lost his footing and fell down.

incident no 2 last weekend.

Liverpool had a corner, Gerrard & Sheff Utd defender Rob Kozluk had been holding each others shirts while jostling for position in the box before the corner had been taken. The referee spots this and tell them both he is keeping his eye on the situation. Corner is taken Kozluk grabs Gerrards shirt, Gerrard goes down quite easily. Penalty !!!!

For me in this situation Kozluk is stupid to grad Gerrard again after the Ref has had words, Gerrard played for the penalty BUT he was being held by the defender against the laws of the game.

Gerrard is an honest player. No dount about it.


incident one

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1tUz6XnlnU

incident two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfmFLqg4RFc

Betterread
03-04-2007, 09:26 AM
My admiration for Gerrard's approach to the game, style of play and integrity is quite high. I have supported Liverpool FC from childhood. Whether or not a penalty kick was justified in either case, Steven Gerrard (in case #1)simulated being kicked when he wasn't; and (incase #2) simulated that he was being held when (it seemed to me) he ran right into the defender/defender's arm. In both cases, he used his reputation and some acting ability to get the referee to see the play the way it would benefit his team best, and his approach yielded two PK opportunities for LFC.

Yachtzee
03-04-2007, 09:51 AM
Regardless of whether Gerrard simulated, the fact that Gerrard being accused of simulating is a big deal indicates that simulating is not acceptable in the EPL. I can't speak for play in Mexico, but living in Austria in the '90s and having had an Italian roommate and having watched some Serie A matches, I got the impression from my roommate and his friends that diving was just "part of the game." Maybe I'm wrong. I haven't done an empirical study on diving. But still, I don't think the acceptance of that kind of play was a reflection on him or his friends. I think it's a reflection on the league and the style of play it promotes.

It's like pro sports here. MLB has a strict rule against players arguing balls and strikes with the umpire. It's usually an automatic ejection. On the other hand, the NBA has only recently instituted rules to cut down on players badgering the refs about calls. The result is that players at all levels of baseball rarely argue balls and strikes, but in basketball, you see players giving refs "what for" after foul calls.

Betterread
03-04-2007, 11:06 AM
[QUOTE=Yachtzee;1255016] I think it's a reflection on the league and the style of play it promotes.
[QUOTE]

I am in agreement with you about the league. A professional league should be judged by how it addresses problems with its players, teams and competitions. Serie A is dealing with some pretty big problems right now that make the issue of dealing with simulation seem small (competitive integrity and fan safety are pretty important things). They can (and I am assuming already are doing this) learn from the EPL how a league addresses problems like these, Eventually, I hope that Serie A does more to address diving - as soon as players see a detriment for certain behavior, they logically eliminate it themselves and their teammates.
All countries and all leagues have to promote fair play and display measures of that promotion - FIFA requires it.

FIFA Fair Play Code


The FIFA Fair Play Code for football encapsulates all of the sporting, moral and ethical principles for which FIFA has always stood and for which it will continue to fight in the future, regardless of the influences and pressures that may be brought to bear.

The ten golden rules not only serve as a credo for FIFA as world football’s governing body, but they also reinforce the sense of fraternity and cooperation among the members of the worldwide football family.

1. Play fair

Winning is without value if victory has been achieved unfairly or dishonestly. Cheating is easy, but brings no pleasure. Playing fair requires courage and character. It is also more satisfying. Fair play always has its reward, even when the game is lost. Playing fair earns respect, while cheating only brings shame. Remember: it is only a game. And games are pointless unless played fairly.

2. Play to win but accept defeat with dignity

Winning is the object of playing any game. Never set out to lose. If you do not play to win, you are cheating your opponents, deceiving those who are watching, and also fooling yourself. Never give up against stronger opponents but never relent against weaker ones. It is an insult to any opponent to play at less than full strength. Play to win, until the final whistle. But remember nobody wins all the time. You win some, you lose some. Learn to lose graciously. Do not seek excuses for defeat. Genuine reasons will always be self-evident. Congratulate the winners with good grace. Do not blame the referee or anyone else. Be determined to do better next time. Good losers earn more respect than bad winners.

3. Observe the Laws of the Game

All games need rules to guide them. Without rules, there would be chaos. The rules of football are simple and easy to learn. Make sure you learn them; it will help you to understand the game better. Understanding the game better will make you a better player. It is equally important to understand the spirit of the rules. They are designed to make the game fun to play and fun to watch. By sticking to the rules, the game will be more enjoyable.

4. Respect opponents, team-mates, referees, officials and spectators

Fair Play means respect. Respect is part of our game. Without opponents there can be no game. Everyone has the same rights, including the right to be respected. Team-mates are colleagues. Form a team in which all members are equal. Referees are there to maintain discipline and Fair Play. Always accept their decisions without arguing, and help them to enable all participants to have a more enjoyable game. Officials are also part of the game and must be respected accordingly. Spectators give the game atmosphere. They want to see the game played fairly, but must also behave fairly and with respect themselves.

5. Promote the interests of football

Football is the world’s greatest game. But it always needs everybody’s help to maintain its greatness. Think of football’s interests before your own. Think how your actions may affect the image of the game. Talk about the positive things in the game. Encourage other people to watch and play fairly. Help others to have as much fun from football as you do. Be an ambassador for the game.

6. Honour those who defend football’s good reputation

The good name of football has survived because the vast majority of people who love the game are honest and fair. Sometimes somebody does something exceptional that deserves our special recognition. They should be honoured and their fine example publicised. This encourages others to act in the same way. Help to promote football’s image by publicising its good deeds.

7. Reject corruption, drugs, racism, violence, gambling and other dangers to our sport

Football’s huge popularity sometimes makes it vulnerable to negative outside interests. Watch out for attempts to tempt you into cheating or using drugs. Drugs have no place in football, in any other sport or in society as a whole. Say no to drugs. Help to kick racism and bigotry out of football. Treat all players and everyone else equally, regardless of their religion, race, sex or national origin. Show zero tolerance for gambling on games in which you participate. It negatively affects your ability to perform and creates the appearance of a conflict of interests. Show that football does not want violence, even from your own fans. Football is sport, and sport is peace.

8. Help others to resist corrupting pressures

You may hear that team-mates or other people you know are being tempted to cheat in some way or otherwise engage in behaviour deemed unacceptable. They need your help. Do not hesitate to stand by them. Give them the strength to resist. Remind them of their commitment to their team-mates and to the game itself. Form a block of solidarity, like a solid defence on the field of play.

9. Denounce those who attempt to discredit our sport

Do not be ashamed to stand up to anybody who you are sure is trying to make others cheat or engage in other unacceptable behaviour. It is better to expose them and have them removed before they can do any damage. It is equally dishonest to go along with a dishonest act. Do not just say no. Denounce those misguided persons who are trying to spoil our sport before they can persuade somebody else to say yes.

10. Use football to make a better world

Football has an incredible power, which can be used to make this world a better place in which everyone can live. Use this powerful platform to promote peace, equality, health and education for everyone. Make the game better, take it to the world, and you will be fostering a better world.