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View Full Version : Useless Junk (and how to fix it from within)



reds44
06-20-2006, 10:29 PM
Today's question of the day, why does Jerry Narron love old washed up vets? The answer: good question.
My motto always has been, if you are going to lose, then lose young. In this case the Reds are not losing, but there are so many old vets on this team that are washed up. Old vets don't get better, they get worse.

We will start with the most ovbious

Quinton McCracken Age-36
2006 Stats- .167/.231/.292
The last time McCraken had 300 AB's was 2002. The last 5 years he has hit .167, 237,150,288, and 227. Why he is on the Reds? Good question

The Replacement
You know who it is. Chris Denorfia Age-26
2006 AAA stats- .340/.400/.447

The Bullpen
It sucks, and it is old.


Esteban Yan Age-31
2006 Stats- 5.19 ERA with Reds, 6.85 with Angles
Career ERA-5.17
Why he is on a major league team? Good Question


Mike Burns Age-28
2006 Stats-11.1 IP, 10.38 ERA
Career Stats- 6.38 ERA
At 28, Burns has pitched in only 38 career games. There is a reason for this. At least he has a little upside becuase he tore up AAA.

Joe Mays Age-31
2006 Stats- 30.2 IP, 8.22 ERA
Career ERA-4.96
Krivsky guy who had 1 good year in Minny. Besides that he has been bad. The last 4 years he has had an ERA over 5, and in 5 of the 7 years of his career.

Man who needs to go on DL
David Weathers, he has been terrible as of late, and is clearly having arm trouble.
Matt Belisle would take his place

The Replacements
David Shafer
AA Stats: 24.1 IP, 1.11 era, 22 for 22 in saves

Brad Salmon
AAA Stats: 20.1 IP, 2.21 ERA
AA Stats: 23.1 IP, 2.70 ERA

Chris Michalak
76 IP, 2.72 ERA
Only problem with him is he has a high HR rate with 12. Germano and Gosling are also options.

Borderline on being gone

Jason Standridge Age-28
Career ERA:5.79
Why he is not gone yet? Posted a 4.09 ERA in 31 apperance last year for us

Kent Mercker Age-Old
2006 ERA: 6.46
Career ERA: 4.19
Why he is not gone yet? Posted a 3.65, 2.55, and 2.35 ERA the last years

Potential Replacements
Brian Shackelford (Loogy), Carlos Guevara

Now ovbiously there is always the option of trade, but I don't read Krivsky's mind. The point it is try something new. We know the old guys are bad, but lets see what the kids can do.

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 12:10 AM
The 40 is full of junk, if they are afraid of losing some of it they need to stop, this junk can be found everywhere.

tripleaaaron
06-21-2006, 01:14 AM
We cant blame this all on Narron, although I must say he does like the vets, but Krivsky gives him the players to use, if Narron had his way Bailey would be on the big club right now.

TeamBoone
06-21-2006, 01:17 AM
Chris Denorfia would would not get enough playing time with the Reds. He'd rot on the bench.

Twenty-eight is not old for a pitcher. Hopefully, Stanford can get it done this time around.

Funny you said that about Weathers; I was thinking the same thing tonight.

Hoosier Red
06-21-2006, 06:56 AM
Michalek is older than Mays, Burns and Yan I believe.

dfs
06-21-2006, 07:23 AM
Chris Denorfia would would not get enough playing time with the Reds. He'd rot on the bench.
As opposed to rotting away at AAA?

Organizationally Denorfia is in an odd place. He's not a young prospect. He's 25. A year older than Pena, two years older then Edwin. Denorfia has 2000 minor league at bats with 400 decent ones at AA and 500 real good ones in AAA. He's got nothing left to prove developmentally.

On the other hand, pretty much no matter how you look at it, he's not one of the reds top three outfielders and unless there are a couple of injuries in the near future, mid season position switches or trades that situation really isn't going to change. I don't want Denorfia taking at bats away from Kearns, Dunn or Junior and I can make a case that if the reds are trying to win right now Denorfia shouldn't bat ahead of Freel.

The appropriate place for somebody like that is as the 5th outfielder/last guy off the bench role. We can hammer on Narron for prefering Q all we want, but ...well, that's Narron's preferenece. I don't know that Denorfia can handle center in the majors and that would be the only reservation I would have about putting him on the roster.


if Narron had his way Bailey would be on the big club right now. I'll give Krivski CREDIT for not doing that. They need to give that man every chance to succeed and they don't have the bullpen or the defense to do that right now.

oneupper
06-21-2006, 08:46 AM
Denorfia is not a replacement for McCracken.
McCracken is basically doing Jacob Cruz' role, but performing it a lot worse.

You could get the same (or better) from an Andy Abad or Dewayne Wise (if you want a PR and OF replacement also). That's an easy move, IMO and can be done without major financial consideration (Abad is already entitled to the ML minimum, i believe).

Not sure about Burns...but here is a line:

14 IP 20 H 10 ER 3 HR 2 BB 9 K ERA 6.42
What's that?

Todd Coffey April and May 2005.....

I'd like to see more of Burns before tossing him away. The guy was getting them out in AAA, so he can't be THAT terrible.

Redhook
06-21-2006, 08:48 AM
Michalek is older than Mays, Burns and Yan I believe.

That doesn't mean he's not a better pitcher. Michalek obviously isn't in our long-term plans, but he could help this year. I don't see how it'd hurt.

tripleaaaron
06-21-2006, 01:16 PM
I'll give Krivski CREDIT for not doing that. They need to give that man every chance to succeed and they don't have the bullpen or the defense to do that right now.

I agree completely that it is the right place for Bailey, all I was saying is that we can't blame Narron completely for the Vets on the roster, it is Krivsky that is placing them there, not too complain about Kriv, he has already done great things, part of the reason they are here is kriv came on late in the pre-season and didn't have the chance to acquire the younger or higher priced free agent players, and we are lucky we got the ones that we did.

redsmetz
06-21-2006, 01:32 PM
I think Krivsky has been slowly unravelling the mess he was left from Dan O'Brien. He has shown he can DFA and he may still do that. I know it's frustratingly slow, but I'm hopeful in the long run. And I concur about this roster selection not necessarily being Narron's doing. Both he and Krivsky have had to work with what they have. I think we'll be seeing some more changes in the near term.

Javy Pornstache
06-21-2006, 01:35 PM
DeWayne Wise is probably the best replacement for Quinton McCracken from within the organization. When you're talking Chris Denorfia, he's probably not a replacement for a pinch-hitter who'll rarely play. I would think he has to be involved in a trade. Either as an inexpensive, hopefully productive replacement for someone traded (such as Austin Kearns for instance), or as a piece himself to trade to a team seeking young OF talent (there are lots of them - Florida and Colorado most notably mentioned).

Denorfia is 26 and doing fantastic in AAA....the time is here to either use him in Cincinnati or let him have his chance elsewhere for a part that can help us knowing CF is probably the best-stocked position of any one in the Reds' minor leagues. Just using the examples of Colorado and Florida, the Rockies have been offering Ryan Shealy for parts they need (if they're not getting a great pitcher out of him to add to their rotation, then CF and C are their next two they would be likely to use him for according to several reports). Florida has redundant parts that would help the Reds but maybe they don't need themselves in 1B Jason Stokes and pitchers Yusmeiro Petit, Jason Vargas and some others they are shopping for help in CF and maybe C themselves. Denorfia could be a great fit there. Just a thought.

jimbo
06-21-2006, 01:52 PM
As opposed to rotting away at AAA?


How exactly is playing everyday at AAA "rotting away." Putting him on the team in a McCracken pinch-hitting role is not the answer and does not help him.

savafan
06-21-2006, 03:37 PM
Here's the thing about Denorfia. If you don't project him to be an everyday starting outfielder, and face it, when you have Griffey, Dunn and Kearns, Denorfia isn't going to start, then why not bring him up. Why does a player that you project as a backup have to remain fresh by getting at bats everyday at AAA?

oneupper
06-21-2006, 03:52 PM
Here's the thing about Denorfia. If you don't project him to be an everyday starting outfielder, and face it, when you have Griffey, Dunn and Kearns, Denorfia isn't going to start, then why not bring him up. Why does a player that you project as a backup have to remain fresh by getting at bats everyday at AAA?

I'm guessing Griffey, Dunn and Kearns will not all be around in 2007.

Redus
06-21-2006, 03:54 PM
I totally agree with the Bullpen overhaul. Bring on the youngsters. We can do no worse.

savafan
06-21-2006, 03:54 PM
I'm guessing Griffey, Dunn and Kearns will not all be around in 2007.

I hope that isn't true.

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 03:58 PM
If it is true I hope we got a haul for them.