PDA

View Full Version : Grade Jerry Narron



Cyclone792
06-21-2006, 12:36 AM
You guys know what to do.

dougdirt
06-21-2006, 12:53 AM
I gave him a C, beucase while he has shown good results, I think has managed this team VERY poorly.

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 01:01 AM
He's a good stop gap but he won't be the manager to get this team past a .500 record.

alloverjr
06-21-2006, 01:07 AM
I think he's on thin ice, but I think that started to break once Cast took over. He was and is a lame duck as I see it. His use of the few good players he has has not been acceptable, but I don't think Sparky, Lou, Cox et. al. would have had this team playing substantially better. Maybe worth a few more wins.

The Baumer
06-21-2006, 01:14 AM
B for Bullpen. Because if Narron had a better bullpen he'd be in first place, which in the game of baseball is a pretty good place in the standings.

TOBTTReds
06-21-2006, 01:26 AM
I only have one major bone, and that is his lineup construction, and because I think that is a huge part of being a manager, I went with a C.

He has to stop playing favorites, it makes me ill to see Richie batting cleanup, especially vs. a RH.



On a side note, never bring in Yan with the bases loaded in a close ball game, that is managerial suicide.

pedro
06-21-2006, 01:54 AM
I think he does a pretty good job as a clubhouse guy but he seems to really depend a little too much on guys like Aurilia for my taste. Plus he tinkers too much. I don't think he should be fired, but I'm not sure he shoudl be asked back either.

redsmetz
06-21-2006, 09:32 AM
I think the Reds will continue this year to be a work in progress. Frankly while I'm not fond of listening to Narron on the radio, I'm curious to see how he'd be with a team just a bit better - or rather more consistent. I like his philosphy and would like to see him get a better bullpen to hold on to leads or keep us in it on close games. My goodness! Did we once think we'd have a reasonably good starting staff? Imagine if our BP was better!

flyer85
06-21-2006, 09:57 AM
Jerry is average. He is not the reason the Reds are struggling of late.

oneupper
06-21-2006, 10:13 AM
Narron is a bench player's nightmare. Get on his "B" list and you get no PT.
Get on his "A" list and you will never be out of the lineup.

Instead of using his 25 guys, he is content with using 15 or 16. The regulars get into mental ruts and the subs get rusty.

Look at Randolph...for example. Milledge is only up for Floyd, but he gets PT.

When Denorfia was up here (for Griffey) he started what? Once?

I gave him a C. And that's assuming he had something to do with the Williams and White DFA's.
He is generally better than Miley but maintains some of Miley's traits, in particular the VET-LOVE. I understand that. As a 40 something, Narron relates much better to the 30 somethings than the 20 somethings (esp. those who speak little english).

(Actually Narron is 50).

TOBTTReds
06-21-2006, 10:52 AM
Look at Randolph...for example. Milledge is only up for Floyd, but he gets PT.

When Denorfia was up here (for Griffey) he started what? Once?



I think Deno and Lastings Milledge are apples to oranges. Milledge has a very high ceiling, where Deno will hit for average and play good defense. Plus when Griffey was out, we all wanted Freel to start anyway. And I think that was the right move. So we had a better bench player to start instead of Deno.

37red
06-21-2006, 11:36 AM
Narron wouldn't be under so much scrutiny if we had less errors and better relief pitching. Sometimes I think you could flip a coin for who to bring out of the bull pen. He seems to be hoping that the experienced players are going to instill some professionalism, patience and stamina that the young kids may be lacking. On the other hand we see that it's just as important to get more of the youthful enthusiasm on the field. We're not fielding a playoff team, its a work in progress... I give it two years to really put it to the test. Narron doesn't have that go get em I'd like to see. I like Ozzie, there's no laying back on that team but he also has top quality players he can change in and out. So given the lack of talent I give Narron a C. If the players were producing he's probably get a B-, but they aren't.

ochre
06-21-2006, 12:05 PM
I think "meah" should be an option on every survey. I'd never pick anything else.

Highlifeman21
06-21-2006, 12:14 PM
F

Narron won't be the manager next year unless somehow we miraculously make the playoffs, and for the sake of the organization I hope we don't, so we can be rid of Jerry Narron.

His lineups are horrible, if he's behind having Q up over Denorfia that is a huge issue, he doesn't know when to yank pitchers, and only a few times has he shown any true fire when arguing calls for our team.

Bottomline, he's one of DanO's boys, and we need to rid ourselves of every last move made by DanO.

registerthis
06-21-2006, 01:03 PM
Narron won't be the manager next year unless somehow we miraculously make the playoffs, and for the sake of the organization I hope we don't, so we can be rid of Jerry Narron.

Ahh, the old "we've got to destroy the village to save it" menality.

Interesting.

PuffyPig
06-21-2006, 03:31 PM
He's a good stop gap but he won't be the manager to get this team past a .500 record.

Hasn't he now managed the team for a full season, with a record above .500?

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 04:05 PM
3 games over doesn't fill me with glee ;)

oneupper
06-21-2006, 06:08 PM
Narron won't be the manager next year unless somehow we miraculously make the playoffs, and for the sake of the organization I hope we don't, so we can be rid of Jerry Narron.



I thought we did that already to get rid of DanO..:D

Highlifeman21
06-21-2006, 06:16 PM
I thought we did that already to get rid of DanO..:D


One step at a time my friend, one step at a time.

I will be shocked if Narron is the manager come opening day 2007 if we don't make the playoffs.

KronoRed
06-21-2006, 07:04 PM
Sadly I won't be, he's a baseball guy and I think Krivsky likes that sort of thing

Marc D
06-21-2006, 07:30 PM
Boone/Miley v3.0 with the lineups and some real head scratchers with his use of the pen(as bad as they are). Also,much like Miley, his team shows a profound inclination to commit the mental mistakes whenever given the opportunity.

I can't fault any manager for the pen, thats just a massive lack of talent. I can fault him when his team makes mental mistakes, fails to hustle and lets their collective plate discipline fall apart for long stretches of time. These type of things are a direct reflection on the manager.

That said, Miley and Boone had the same issues. I think its as much on some of these players as it is the manager and this is a big part of the reason I'm so in favor of a complete and utter turn over of personnel.

Ltlabner
06-21-2006, 07:40 PM
I had started to give him a B with the thought process of "well, we were picked to be horrible and we're in 2nd place, 1st in the WC race, etc etc". But the more I thought about it, I changed him to a C for Meah.

I don't like his penchant for chasing percentages and trying to be overly clever with the line up. Even then, I think he miss-manges it with RA in clean up, Hatteburg 2nd, etc etc. But in general, I am a big believer of going with a semi-regular line up based on players strengths and letting the players use their tallents to fill the role. Constantly chasing every last little matchup doesn't make sense to me.

I hate his use of the bull-pen. To his credit, he's choosing between cold dog poo and warm dog poo so he's not got a lot of choices. However, why the heck he kept running Rick White out there is beyond me. Mike Burns got called up and imediatley he's sent out to be shelled. His insistance on using Weathers as a closer was also odd. He seems to like to use the bull-pen for about 1 inning each. That isn't a huge deal, but sometimes it does bug me.

Lastly is his somewhat uncomfortable man-love for the vets. I'm all for experience, mentoring the youth, etc. But when JR when down Deno started how many games? 1 I think? How many times has McQ been sent to the plate in an important situation when Ross or even Javy were on the bench?

Do I hate Narron and think he should be fired? No. I think he's a so-so manager who will consistantly be in the middle of the pack. Will he be here next year? Probably, but it's too early to say. He's not The Kriv's man which works against him, but if they put up a decent season that may save him.

WVRedsFan
06-21-2006, 08:35 PM
With all due respect to those posting A, B, or C, the argument that if he had better players he'd be doing better is one of those thing that has driven me crazy over the years. Yes, if a manager has better players, he should do better. Give me a better team and I'd manager them to 98 wins. In fact, my yardstick has always been the best manager is the guy who does a good job despite his personnel.

Given a team like the Reds with streaky hitters, decent starting pitching, and no bullpen, a really good manager would devise a plan to win in spite of his team's shortcomings. Narron hasn't. He continues to put the same pitchers in games in mostly the same order so they can get bombed (example is Hammond first out of the bullpen, even though he's had a tough time getting anyone out or pulling a starter with success on a certain night for Hammond or White) or sending Q or Velentin to pinch hit when Griffey or someone is available. His lineups reek of old school and he adores veterans--bad veterans.

Yeah, he's done OK, but I'd bet that we could all name 6 or 7 games needlessly lost because of a decision he has made. And maybe I'm being unfair, but it is early in the season. Who knows what will happen the rest of the way? But as for now, he gets a C and that's not good enough to get us in contention for the playoffs year after year.

GAC
06-24-2006, 07:25 AM
Jerry is average. He is not the reason the Reds are struggling of late.

Any manager would be struggling with this BP. I'd have pulled my hair out till I was bald by the All-Star break. :p:

GAC
06-24-2006, 07:28 AM
His lineups are horrible, if he's behind having Q up over Denorfia that is a huge issue

Highly doubful that he is.

Heck! Narron has jokingly said he'd love to have Homer up here.

Input? Yes. But overall, those decisions are not his to make.

GAC
06-24-2006, 07:30 AM
On another thread, I think this statement sums up my sentiment on Narron....


Sometimes, a coach or manager's best job comes not with winning a pennant, but in getting the most out of a marginal bunch of players.

Getting more than expected out of a group of players is often unsung.

RBA
05-09-2007, 11:56 PM
I gave him a "D".

Will M
05-10-2007, 12:01 AM
B

butlerbulldogs
05-10-2007, 12:03 AM
F-something has to give, last place in the central is grounds for an F

Marc D
05-10-2007, 12:05 AM
F then and F now. I feel bad for him but nothings really changed.

Edit**Whoops said D when I meant F.

Krusty
05-10-2007, 12:06 AM
As bad as this team is defensively, bullpen and situational hitting.....you have to point the finger at the manager.

WMR
05-10-2007, 12:06 AM
Downgrade from a D to an F.

He's not the biggest problem, but he's up there.

reds1869
05-10-2007, 12:08 AM
He's just average, so I gave him a C. I don't think he is the problem, but he isn't the solution either.

WVRedsFan
05-10-2007, 12:44 AM
F then and F now. I feel bad for him but nothings really changed.

Edit**Whoops said D when I meant F.

I gave him an F then and an F now, even though I feel for him.

Funny, but wasn't the orginal post just before he got that 2-year extention from Krivsky? Kiss of death.

I predict both Narron and Krivsky won't survive until 2008. Just a hunch, but when attendance drops (and it will), a change will be made. This is Miley territory, Castellini will not stand for it.

Caveat Emperor
05-10-2007, 01:05 AM
I give him a B.

I honestly don't know what everyone here wants out of a manager, because asking anyone to have a winning season with the 25 man roster as constructed is probably asking the impossible.

Edwin Encarnacion made 2 errors tonight. Somebody posted bad defense as the responsibility of the manager. I don't get that at all -- every person on this team is a big leaguer. If they suck it hard at defense, then it is because the instructors along the way in the minor leagues didn't coach these guys properly and/or they simply don't have the ability to play defense to a high level. Once you reach the major leagues, its tweaking. A tweak to the batting stance. A tweak to the first step when fielding. Etc.

Edwin Encarnacion is one the many arguments that fans won't let Narron win. If he plays Edwin and he continues to be a mangler with the glove, people gripe that Narron's teams don't play fundamentally sound. If he benches Edwin for better defense, people gripe that he's being too hard on the kid and not letting him play through his mistakes. Its all part of this sick self-loathing culture that Reds have with players and managers that don't fit into whatever personal paradigm they have for what a manager or player should be. People hate Dunn because he's not Rose or Davis. People hate Narron because he's not what they remember McKeon or Sparky being like.

I judge Narron based on the moves he makes. They usually (unless it involves letting Juan Castro swing a bat) make some degree of sense given the circumstances. That alone makes him better than Boone and better than Miley. He's probably somewhere in the B/C range, and I give him the benefit of the doubt because he DID manage a squad of overachievers last season.

Jr's Boy
05-10-2007, 02:12 AM
I have to agree with Paul Daugherty(reluctantly) listening to the after game show.Even though Narron isn't the one to blame, he has to be fired because this is a business and he is'nt getting the job done.

jimbo
05-10-2007, 02:41 AM
I have to agree with Paul Daugherty(reluctantly) listening to the after game show.Even though Narron isn't the one to blame, he has to be fired because this is a business and he is'nt getting the job done.

I don't think this makes any sense at all. You can't blame him, but you should fire him???? Firing Narron does nothing to help the current situation. It only adds fuel to the fire.

Jr's Boy
05-10-2007, 02:51 AM
I don't think this makes any sense at all. You can't blame him, but you should fire him???? Firing Narron does nothing to help the current situation. It only adds fuel to the fire.


He was talking about how in the summer if the Reds are this bad,why even think to come to the ballpark and spend money.And manager's are the first to go whether or not it's their fault.

wally post
05-10-2007, 02:57 AM
The general manager is the problem, in particular, for his signing old guys in the bullpen that nobody else would ever want. (even Steinbrenner didn't want any more Stanton for instance)
But I'm tired of Narron's old school secret handshake reasons for doing things. I'm TIRED of the cliches!
Baseball is a lovely game full of subtlties and nuance. The Reds aren't on the same playing field as the other teams now. He has misused the talent that we have. MAybe it is a lack of communication between him and the front office. Maybe he is just happy to be there and won't make a fuss to fight for his needs. I'm done with it. Guilty by default.
F.

Jr's Boy
05-10-2007, 03:09 AM
You would figure would go out and raise cain and get tossed,try something to light a fire under this team.I recall last season he was all fire and brimstone in a game.Can anyone find that pic where he was all up in that umpire's grill?I tried to find it.

camisadelgolf
05-10-2007, 03:39 AM
I gave him a D. I hate what he does on the field (the bullpen use, lineups, etc.). However, I enjoy pretty much everything else about him (managing the players, handling reporters, etc.). Unfortunately, what's on the field is what really counts, so I gave him a D.

oneupper
05-10-2007, 09:28 AM
In a very cut and dry sense, WK is responsible for the guys on the roster and JN for how they are used on the field.

However, no boss/subordinate relationship is THAT cut and dry. All employees request resources from management and if they get them, they are expected to produce results.

So Narron's grade...they one Krivsky will give him (and on which his job depends), will ultimately depend on how much input Narron himself has had in the personnel decisions of the last year and a half.

If Narron has been participating and agreeing to the moves and if he gave a certain expectation as to what could be acheived (as in "yes Wayne, I can win with these guys")...he'll get the corresponding grade ("an F" for example) and dealt with accordingly.

If it's been Narron pushing Krivsky to upgrade the bullpen over the last year and now he can't handle what he was given...well...you can imagine.

Krusty
05-10-2007, 09:54 AM
I give him a B.

I honestly don't know what everyone here wants out of a manager, because asking anyone to have a winning season with the 25 man roster as constructed is probably asking the impossible.

Edwin Encarnacion made 2 errors tonight. Somebody posted bad defense as the responsibility of the manager. I don't get that at all -- every person on this team is a big leaguer. If they suck it hard at defense, then it is because the instructors along the way in the minor leagues didn't coach these guys properly and/or they simply don't have the ability to play defense to a high level. Once you reach the major leagues, its tweaking. A tweak to the batting stance. A tweak to the first step when fielding. Etc.

Edwin Encarnacion is one the many arguments that fans won't let Narron win. If he plays Edwin and he continues to be a mangler with the glove, people gripe that Narron's teams don't play fundamentally sound. If he benches Edwin for better defense, people gripe that he's being too hard on the kid and not letting him play through his mistakes. Its all part of this sick self-loathing culture that Reds have with players and managers that don't fit into whatever personal paradigm they have for what a manager or player should be. People hate Dunn because he's not Rose or Davis. People hate Narron because he's not what they remember McKeon or Sparky being like.

I judge Narron based on the moves he makes. They usually (unless it involves letting Juan Castro swing a bat) make some degree of sense given the circumstances. That alone makes him better than Boone and better than Miley. He's probably somewhere in the B/C range, and I give him the benefit of the doubt because he DID manage a squad of overachievers last season.


As bad as the defense is, why isn't the manager having infield practice before a game. It has been mentioned on the radio more than once. Narron doesn't just practice that but he doesn't make free swingers like Phillips and Encarncion take a pitch; doesn't practice situational hitting and has to make you wonder if he knows how to manage the game right along the same lines of playing the game right.

dfs
05-10-2007, 11:34 AM
I can't. I just can't.

Narron has shown so many good traits and has learned and changed as he's been on the job. He doesn't let his starters throw 130 pitches anymore. He doesn't have three catchers on his roster. He obviously has the support of his players and the front office. ....

The way he runs his bullpen makes it impossible for guys to succeed down there. I thought for sure it would change this year. It hasn't. If he can't change that, he needs to go. The franchise cannot continue to spend such a huge amount of time and resources addressing the bullpen if there is no chance for success no matter who is down there.

On the other hand....If he can change the way he uses his pen, he's easily the best man for the job and replacing him would be foolish churn.

M2
05-10-2007, 01:36 PM
In this poll, Jerry's current GPA is 2.04 (through 188 votes).

Ron Madden
05-10-2007, 02:06 PM
Last year I gave Narron a C.

This year he gets an F.

Eric_Davis
05-16-2007, 01:30 AM
I've made my decision after watching him manage the top of the 10th tonight against the Padres.


F-

He should be fired tonight after the game.

Degenerate39
05-16-2007, 02:41 PM
Can I change my vote to a D-.

bucksfan2
05-16-2007, 04:01 PM
F. If he had success anywhere else I would be a little more generous. If he know how to motivate players I would be a little more generous. If he know how to get the best out of people I would be a little more generous. If he didn't let his team quit down the stretch last year I would have give him a chance.

NC Reds
05-16-2007, 04:11 PM
His greatest sin is batting lineup construction, which is a pretty big sin to have as a manager. I gave him a C (generous) on that basis.

I blame Krivsky for the presence of Castro on the roster or the grade would be lower.

WVRed
05-16-2007, 04:13 PM
Can I change mine to an F?

oneupper
05-16-2007, 04:54 PM
I think Narron has regressed. F

Redsland
05-16-2007, 05:35 PM
He just needs to be consistent and manage the way he's capable of. If he can do that, he'll give us a chance to win. We all know he's got the ability. He's just got to battle through this. The guy is a winner. He knows how to win. Frederick and Hagerstown know that.

StillFunkyB
05-16-2007, 05:36 PM
He's a good stop gap but he won't be the manager to get this team past a .500 record.

What he said!

Someone pass that man an apple juice!

KronoRed
05-16-2007, 09:07 PM
What he said!

Someone pass that man an apple juice!

Woohoo :D

Stingray
05-17-2007, 12:31 AM
I didn't vote because there wasn't a choice that fits my position. I want him gone by spring training next year. The Reds are in a position to win with a lot of young talent and I don't see him as a manager who will develop and play young guys if he has any other choice(yeah, I know about Hamilton - he's a special case). The only reason I'd let him finish the season here is because Hamilton probably feels more comfortable with the Narrons. Since I see 07 as a lost cause I can live with Narron on the chance it might be good for Hamilton.

Cyclone792
05-17-2007, 01:40 AM
May 16th, 2007 ...

Bronson Arroyo pitches eight outstanding innings and walks off the field after the 8th inning of a 2-2 tie game with a pitch count of 110. Jerry Narron runs Arroyo out there for the 9th inning only to watch Arroyo run his pitch count drastically high, load the bases, and then walk in the winning run.

Arroyo's final pitch count: 129 pitches.

There is absolutely no good reason to let one of your franchise-caliber pitchers - who also happens to be under a fairly expensive contract for several seasons - throw 129 pitches in a single start, much less let him throw 129 pitches in a single start for a team that is 16-24 and in last place in the NL Central.

If Jerry Narron isn't interested in protecting this franchise's prized pitchers, then I'm not interested in him managing this club.

Stingray
05-17-2007, 01:43 AM
I changed my mind after watching Narron abuse our two best starters(both of whom the Reds control thru 2011), showing no emotion over several terrible misplays and a horrible call on the last pitch. By trying to save his job he could injure BA and/or AH and cripple the Reds chances for several years. Replace him now! F

You said it better than I did, Cyclone

WVPacman
05-17-2007, 01:44 AM
Guys I know it would'nt have changed the call on the ball four call BUT Narron should atleat went out there just to show Arryo that im on your side.What does he do thow ran straight to the club house.

reds44
05-17-2007, 01:49 AM
F.

HumnHilghtFreel
05-17-2007, 01:54 AM
Anyone with some money to invest, I hear there's a market for a www.firejerrynarron.com

SteelSD
05-17-2007, 01:56 AM
May 16th, 2007 ...

Bronson Arroyo pitches eight outstanding innings and walks off the field after the 8th inning of a 2-2 tie game with a pitch count of 110. Jerry Narron runs Arroyo out there for the 9th inning only to watch Arroyo run his pitch count drastically high, load the bases, and then walk in the winning run.

Arroyo's final pitch count: 129 pitches.

There is absolutely no good reason to let one of your franchise-caliber pitchers - who also happens to be under a fairly expensive contract for several seasons - throw 129 pitches in a single start, much less let him throw 129 pitches in a single start for a team that is 16-24 and in last place in the NL Central.

If Jerry Narron isn't interested in protecting this franchise's prized pitchers, then I'm not interested in him managing this club.

Excellent post and I'd like to add to that...

If the General Manager doesn't move in swiftly to make Narron understand that concept, he should be gone immediately. And frankly, Narron's decision to stick with Arroyo was a huge vote of no confidence regarding his bullpen. The guy (Narron) tried to protect himself tonight. But both the GM and Manager have influence as to who is and who is not in that bullpen. I'd suggest that one of the two will go soon. But I'd also suggest that both need to go.

However, the weird thing is that Narron's refusal to go to the pen suggests a rift between Krivsky and Narron and it was pretty obvious over the past couple of games that Narron wanted nothing to do with Krivsky's guys.

harangatang
05-17-2007, 01:57 AM
C, I blame the problems on Krivsky and not Narron. Narron had already used the only good arm in the bullpen last night for 3 innings so he had no other choice. I think the Reds could do better than Narron but they shouldn't waste their time until Krivsky starts making legitimate moves to improve this ballclub.

WVPacman
05-17-2007, 01:57 AM
I like Narron,but that really struck a nerve when he did'nt go out there and take up for his players.Like I said in my last post that would have told all the players that hey narron is on our side.I could be wrong but I have a feeling that this might have struck a nerve with all the players to.

WVPacman
05-17-2007, 02:02 AM
C, I blame the problems on the Krivsky and not Narron. Narron had already used the only good arm in the bullpen last night for 3 innings so he had no other choice. I think the Reds could do better than Narron but they shouldn't waste their time until Krivsky starts making legitmate moves to improve this ballclub.


Oh I agree completly its not all narron's fought b/c he isn't the hitting coach,pitching coach or the gm.If narron goes then so should the other coachs EXSPECIALLY the hitting coach.Guys we were a hitting machine the past 5-6 years scoring 7-10 runs almost everygame NOW we our only scoring2- 3 runs a game it seems like.

pedro
05-17-2007, 02:09 AM
Excellent post and I'd like to add to that...

If the General Manager doesn't move in swiftly to make Narron understand that concept, he should be gone immediately. And frankly, Narron's decision to stick with Arroyo was a huge vote of no confidence regarding his bullpen. The guy (Narron) tried to protect himself tonight. But both the GM and Manager have influence as to who is and who is not in that bullpen. I'd suggest that one of the two will go soon. But I'd also suggest that both need to go.

However, the weird thing is that Narron's refusal to go to the pen suggests a rift between Krivsky and Narron and it was pretty obvious over the past couple of games that Narron wanted nothing to do with Krivsky's guys.

I think you're right about that.

Nice to see you back BTW.

WMR
05-17-2007, 02:17 AM
Excellent post and I'd like to add to that...

If the General Manager doesn't move in swiftly to make Narron understand that concept, he should be gone immediately. And frankly, Narron's decision to stick with Arroyo was a huge vote of no confidence regarding his bullpen. The guy (Narron) tried to protect himself tonight. But both the GM and Manager have influence as to who is and who is not in that bullpen. I'd suggest that one of the two will go soon. But I'd also suggest that both need to go.

However, the weird thing is that Narron's refusal to go to the pen suggests a rift between Krivsky and Narron and it was pretty obvious over the past couple of games that Narron wanted nothing to do with Krivsky's guys.

STEEL!!!!!

WHAT'S UP HOMEY!!!

You're back!!!

Welcome back bud!!!

:beerme::beerme::beerme::beerme:

Really missed ya!

WMR
05-17-2007, 02:19 AM
Anyone with some money to invest, I hear there's a market for a www.firejerrynarron.com

The wheels are turning as we speak. Stay tuned.

Highlifeman21
05-17-2007, 02:38 AM
May 16th, 2007 ...

Bronson Arroyo pitches eight outstanding innings and walks off the field after the 8th inning of a 2-2 tie game with a pitch count of 110. Jerry Narron runs Arroyo out there for the 9th inning only to watch Arroyo run his pitch count drastically high, load the bases, and then walk in the winning run.

Arroyo's final pitch count: 129 pitches.

There is absolutely no good reason to let one of your franchise-caliber pitchers - who also happens to be under a fairly expensive contract for several seasons - throw 129 pitches in a single start, much less let him throw 129 pitches in a single start for a team that is 16-24 and in last place in the NL Central.

If Jerry Narron isn't interested in protecting this franchise's prized pitchers, then I'm not interested in him managing this club.


Yet another example of how Narron doesn't put our guys in situations to succeed.

I understand if you have hesitations with the bullpen, but there's zero reason to trot Arroyo out there for the 9th. Let the bullpen lose the game, rather than pull a Dusty Baker with one of your only reliable arms.

Instead, we get Arroyo trying to do the impossible. Arroyo was in a position to fail, a position he's familiar with thanks to Narron.

Ryan Freel isn't a 3B. Yet another example of him putting our guys in a situation to fail.

I'm tired of waiting for Narron to put our guys in a situation to succeed.

harangatang
05-17-2007, 02:51 AM
Yet another example of how Narron doesn't put our guys in situations to succeed.

I understand if you have hesitations with the bullpen, but there's zero reason to trot Arroyo out there for the 9th. Let the bullpen lose the game, rather than pull a Dusty Baker with one of your only reliable arms.

Instead, we get Arroyo trying to do the impossible. Arroyo was in a position to fail, a position he's familiar with thanks to Narron.

Ryan Freel isn't a 3B. Yet another example of him putting our guys in a situation to fail.

I'm tired of waiting for Narron to put our guys in a situation to succeed.The sad part is Narron has no other choice. It's not like he can trot EdE out there to play because Krivsky sent him to Louisville. I felt more comfortable with Arroyo on the mound than with Stanton or Coffey out there since Weathers threw 3 innings last night. Granted Arroyo threw too many pitches but the Reds will never win until Krivsky puts quality pitchers in bullpen and a competent offense up to bat. I think Narron has made some dumb moves in the past but I really felt he gave the Reds best chance to win tonight with the pitiful roster that Krivsky has put together.

WVRedsFan
05-17-2007, 03:02 AM
May 16th, 2007 ...

Bronson Arroyo pitches eight outstanding innings and walks off the field after the 8th inning of a 2-2 tie game with a pitch count of 110. Jerry Narron runs Arroyo out there for the 9th inning only to watch Arroyo run his pitch count drastically high, load the bases, and then walk in the winning run.

Arroyo's final pitch count: 129 pitches.

There is absolutely no good reason to let one of your franchise-caliber pitchers - who also happens to be under a fairly expensive contract for several seasons - throw 129 pitches in a single start, much less let him throw 129 pitches in a single start for a team that is 16-24 and in last place in the NL Central.

If Jerry Narron isn't interested in protecting this franchise's prized pitchers, then I'm not interested in him managing this club.

I wsn't aware that his pitch count had gone that high. that is a concern. This manager (and to a larger extent the GM) just seem to make wrong decision after wrong decision. Is this club worse than last year? No doubt. If that's the case, and it is, it's time for a change from the very top to the very bottom.

KronoRed
05-17-2007, 03:25 AM
I know Arroyo said he was still fresh but it is indefensible to leave one of the horses in to throw 129 pitches.

Fire them all and start over Bob.

Ltlabner
05-17-2007, 08:24 AM
I don't think it's Narron backing away from Krivsky's guys. I don't get the vibe that Jerry even thinks on those levels (ie. poltical manuvering). Not to mention I believe Jerry is the driving force behind getting some of those guys in the first place. It's much simpler IMO.

He knows Stanton is toast. Weathers you have to save to "close" in extra innings. Cormier is gone.

All of his trusty vets are not avilable. And in a 2-2 game in late innings, I'd wager that Jerry is far more confident in his "crafty vets" than he is his "kids". Deep down inside, I think Jerry's default setting is vet = trust worthy, kid = untrust worthy. Therefore, Arroyo is sent into the breach one last time.