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Spitball
06-23-2006, 06:48 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/06/23/bronson_burner_arroyo_lighting_up_the_reds/

KittyDuran
06-23-2006, 06:53 AM
Great story...thanks for posting...:)

Jpup
06-23-2006, 07:14 AM
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2006/06/23/bronson_burner_arroyo_lighting_up_the_reds/?page=1


NEW YORK -- As much as he likes Theo Epstein -- ``I love him to death," said Bronson Arroyo -- he hasn't called the Red Sox general manager since Epstein traded him to the Cincinnati Reds in March.

``If I called him when I'm pitching so good, I don't want to feel like I'm calling and saying, `Hey, you [messed] up.' I don't want to do that to him. I'll call him one of these days, but I don't want to be going too good because I don't want him to think that's the reason I was calling."

Hard to imagine things going any better than they are these days for Arroyo, who has morphed from an expendable arm with the Red Sox to Cincinnati's ace, the primary reason the Reds are the surprise leaders in the National League wild-card race.

When Reds manager Jerry Narron was asked the other day about Arroyo's chances of starting the All-Star Game, he said, ``That's an automatic. He's got a chance to win the Cy Young."

A chance? ``He's my pick for Cy Young," said Pedro Martínez, who watched Arroyo shut down the Mets' potent offense here earlier this week for his ninth win of the season, just one fewer than league leader Tom Glavine, while lowering his earned run average to 2.47, just a hair behind Chris Carpenter of the Cardinals (2.46).

``I guess you never expect to get off to the kind of start I've gotten off to," Arroyo said. ``Especially on a team that wasn't expected to win a ton of games. So, yeah, I mean, I can't complain about a two-and-a-half ERA. That's about as good as you can get. It's hard to do too much better."

Did Arroyo, who with his assortment of curves, sliders, and changeups all thrown at varying speeds and arm angles was dubbed a poor man's El Duque (Orlando Hernandez), walk into Reds camp expecting to be anointed the team's No. 1 starter? Of course not. We're talking about a guy who was on the waiver wire when Epstein claimed him in 2003. Did he believe he could pitch this well? Absolutely.

``I watch TV now and then," he said. ``I laugh at people. I [was watching] `Pardon the Interruption,' and they were saying something about 90 being the over-under for wins for the Reds this year. I think the other guy said under and [Bob Ryan] said under, too. He said, `I like Bronson Arroyo a lot, but he's not that damn good.'

``I love when people say stuff like that. Curt Schilling told me I couldn't pitch 230 innings with this body. Well, I'm going to do it and I ain't going to get hurt doing it, either ``I always thought I could do this in the game, after being with the Red Sox. I have this much confidence in myself ever since midway in 2004, once I got the ball every fifth day and showed I could win in the harshest environment. I knew I could pitch, I just didn't know I'd get off to a start like this."

Star quality

In buttoned-down Cincinnati, where he isn't competing for attention with the likes of Johnny Damon and Kevin Millar, the laid-back Arroyo, with his long blond tresses, guitar, and willingness to say whatever is on his mind -- he ticked off the Pirates earlier this season by saying he was embarrassed to lose to such a weak team, then repeated himself the next day -- is already in demand.

He did a stand-up gig as a sports reporter for one TV station, cut an ad for a car dealership that was dwarfed in popularity by an outtake, in which he utters a mild profanity, that wound up on the Internet, and last week teamed with Raquel Aurilia, wife of Reds infielder Rich Aurilia, for a benefit concert that raised $35,000 for the team's charities.

All of that has helped to take the sting out of the day that left him brokenhearted, when Epstein informed him he'd been traded for outfielder Wily Mo Peña just weeks after he'd signed a three-year deal and declared his intention to remain a member of the Sox forever.

``Yeah, I've gotten adjusted over here," he said. ``You know, the only thing I really miss is 35,000 people going crazy every night. Other than that, my teammates are good, the field's fine, the city's good, I'm enjoying myself. It's easier for me to pitch over here, so inevitably, in the end, it's going to make me more money."

While Martínez, for one, adamantly disputes the prevailing notion that it's easier for a pitcher in the National League because of the absence of the DH, Arroyo not only embraces that argument but takes it even further.

``The lineups aren't very strong," he said. ``The strongest lineup in the National League probably isn't as strong, or as tough to pitch to, as Toronto or Baltimore. If everybody's healthy in St. Louis's lineup, that's probably the only one that can compare. The White Sox are tougher, Detroit this year is probably pretty tough, and then you have the Yankees, Toronto, and Baltimore in that division 19 times a year. I mean, it's hard to pitch over there.

``I've always said if you have a sub-four ERA in that division, you're pitching your butt off. Even guys winning a lot of games, like Schilling, have ERAs over four because it's hard to manage the game when the lineups are so good and so deep." Arroyo is aware of how the Sox found themselves short of starting pitching this spring, after David Wells broke down and Matt Clement first struggled, then went on the disabled list.

``People call me all the time, tell me that they're talking about me on NESN and WEEI, that Theo's taking a lot of heat. I love Theo to death, man, but if you trade me [and] I don't want to be traded, I hope I win 20 games and I hope at the end of the season he sits at home and says, `[Expletive], I wish [he] was still [here].'

``What else can you want? You know what I mean? That's just the way it is. I don't have any hard feelings toward him. I realize he's trying to do the best he could for the team, but my agent told him the day I was traded, `You're going to wish you still had him at some point this season, you watch.' "

Arroyo said he'd heard what Epstein had said on the day of the trade, that the decision was unanimous to trade him. Wells had told the Sox that he was healthy and could pitch, and the Sox took him at his word. With Wells's track record of winning, Arroyo said it was understandable that they believed him.

But he still didn't think he'd be traded.

``In my mind, the way that organization works, John Henry must have said yes, Larry Lucchino must have said yes, Terry Francona must have said yes, and so did Theo Epstein," Arroyo said. ``They felt they were doing the right thing, obviously. If they said it was a unanimous vote, who knows if it's true or not, that's what he said.

``I've never played in another place where the owner and CEO of the team come down to the manager's office and question the decisions he made that night. I don't know how frequently, but I know for a fact [that happened]. I was never there, but I've been told by people who were in the room that they've come down and said, maybe, `Why did you bring [Mike] Timlin in in the seventh with two outs?'

``That whole relationship is pretty wide open, as far as them wanting to get everybody's input. I never played in a place where trainers were out giving batting tips to hitters, either. All that stuff happened over there, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. [Former assistant trainer] Chang Lee used to be down there, hitting with [Mark] Bellhorn on the tee, which was weird, but it worked. Nobody had too big an ego."

Arroyo said he has benefited from pitching in Boston.

``It helped me a lot," he said. ``It helped me to manage a game like the one here, in a city that's very excitable at certain points of the game. It helps you deal with different things that can come at you during the season that maybe if you haven't been exposed to could bother you."

If it had been Arroyo's call, he never would have been traded. Hey, if it had been up to Arroyo, all of the guys who won a World Series in 2004 would still be in Boston.

``In my mind, they hadn't won a World Series in 86 years," he said. ``Insurance pays off people's contracts. I have no idea why we wouldn't have signed back everyone, and I mean everyone. The only guy I thought we had to get rid of was either Millar or [Doug] Mientkiewicz, because neither one of them wanted to be a role player.

``Other than that, I don't care what your ego is, I don't care what kind of beef you have with guys, I'd sign [Derek] Lowe back, I'd sign Pedro Martínez back, I'd bring back every single guy on that team.

``Because it worked, plain and simple. Eighty-six years, it worked. Why not try it again? In '05, we run away with that division without changing the team. We tied the Yankees with the exact same record and we didn't have a No. 1 all year, because Schilling hurt himself. If Pedro Martínez is there, we win the division by seven or eight games, we go to the playoffs, and we sure as hell don't get swept by the White Sox. But that's just me."

Bronson Arroyo, ace of the Reds. Arroyo, lock for National League All-Star. Arroyo, Cy Young Award candidate. The guy who never wanted to leave.

smith288
06-23-2006, 09:03 AM
Im getting bored by all the "never wanted to leave" talk.

How about talk about the success your having in Cincy and not all the talk about all the success Boston is missing out on Arroyo?

Heath
06-23-2006, 09:13 AM
Im getting bored by all the "never wanted to leave" talk.

How about talk about the success your having in Cincy and not all the talk about all the success Boston is missing out on Arroyo?


Because, don't you know that New England is the center of the baseball world. While the team might not have egos, the fans and writers sure do. Getting traded from Boston to anywhere is transforming from the owner of the Maisonette to the third shift guy at UDF. Get with the program, Smith, geez. Don't you watch ESPN? ;) :D

Red Sox fans are Cubs fans with a recent World Series winner. It gives them another excuse to drink.

smith288
06-23-2006, 09:17 AM
Because, don't you know that New England is the center of the baseball world. While the team might not have egos, the fans and writers sure do. Getting traded from Boston to anywhere is transforming from the owner of the Maisonette to the third shift guy at UDF. Get with the program, Smith, geez. Don't you watch ESPN? ;) :D

Red Sox fans are Cubs fans with a recent World Series winner. It gives them another excuse to drink.
I have Insight cable and last night, ESPN-HD was free... I have lots of learning and now I can do it in HD fashion. YES!

RFS62
06-23-2006, 10:53 AM
Just because ESPN and FOX fawn over Boston and New York doesn't mean there's no merit to it.

Boston is an electric place to play, for the very reasons Bronson stated. It would be pretty strange for him not to have been disappointed with the trade after signing his deal.

I prefer his honesty over "Nuke Laloosh" speak.

redsfan30
06-23-2006, 11:38 AM
Im getting bored by all the "never wanted to leave" talk.

How about talk about the success your having in Cincy and not all the talk about all the success Boston is missing out on Arroyo?
I hear you loud and clear. I love what he's doing on the mound here, but I'm growing very tired of his (seemingly) me-me-me attitude.

It seems like his motivation isn't to win games for the Cincinnati Reds, it's to rub things in the face of the Boston Red Sox and I'm sorry but that's not ok with me.

registerthis
06-23-2006, 11:42 AM
It seems like his motivation isn't to win games for the Cincinnati Reds, it's to rub things in the face of the Boston Red Sox and I'm sorry but that's not ok with me.

:confused:

Team Clark
06-23-2006, 11:45 AM
I hear you loud and clear. I love what he's doing on the mound here, but I'm growing very tired of his (seemingly) me-me-me attitude.

It seems like his motivation isn't to win games for the Cincinnati Reds, it's to rub things in the face of the Boston Red Sox and I'm sorry but that's not ok with me.


There's a VERY good chance that Bronson did talk more about what he likes in Cincy. This is a Boston Globe article and you know they edited most of that stuff out.... I'd venture to say only 20% of the interview made it into the piece.

redsfan30
06-23-2006, 11:45 AM
:confused:
Time after time, you read stuff about "I bet they wish they had me back" or "I bet they wish they hadn't traded me".

Whether it's right or wrong, it's just the impression I get.

redsfan30
06-23-2006, 11:47 AM
There's a VERY good chance that Bronson did talk more about what he likes in Cincy. This is a Boston Globe article and you know they edited most of that stuff out.... I'd venture to say only 20% of the interview made it into the piece.
This is true.

smith288
06-23-2006, 01:03 PM
There's a VERY good chance that Bronson did talk more about what he likes in Cincy. This is a Boston Globe article and you know they edited most of that stuff out.... I'd venture to say only 20% of the interview made it into the piece.
If it were me, I'd say "no more interviews to the bostonians...follow me in the boxscores and through cincy interviews".

I agree with redsfan30. Every article/interview is about rubbing the BoSox face in his success. Just win for the guys next to you...we know you didnt like the trade... we know you love Boston but please for the love of GOD start acting like you are winning for your teammates and fans because im certainly not getting the impression that he is after reading multiple interviews of him.

Heath
06-23-2006, 01:04 PM
Think about it from the reverse angle - Sean Casey.

Isn't Casey on the radar as a FA next year?

vaticanplum
06-23-2006, 01:05 PM
It's a Boston paper. The majority of the public there has no reason to care about the Reds unless the Red Sox end up facing them in October. Arroyo is the reason this article is printed, and the only reason the public there cares about him is because he used to play for the Red Sox. Of course that's going to be the focus. It's not like they're interviewing Adam Dunn about his feelings towards his team.

RFS62
06-23-2006, 01:05 PM
I think he just told the truth, with no ill-intent or disrespect towards Cincinnati.

I prefer that to political posturing.

Caveat Emperor
06-23-2006, 01:09 PM
Just because ESPN and FOX fawn over Boston and New York doesn't mean there's no merit to it.

Boston is an electric place to play, for the very reasons Bronson stated. It would be pretty strange for him not to have been disappointed with the trade after signing his deal.

I prefer his honesty over "Nuke Laloosh" speak.

Truth.

As a player, unless there are issues of "hometown" team or some team you grew up rooting for, why wouldn't you want to play in a city where the fans are truly passionate about the game and put their passion on display by going out to the ballpark every night to cheer and watch you perform?

No matter what any player says, it has to be at least mildly disappointing to play in a city where less than half-capacity at the park is the norm -- especially when you've experienced how the other half lives.

Cincinnati could be a city like that -- where fans are passionate and players are excited to come and play there -- but it isn't, so why be bitter over the places that are?

Doc. Scott
06-23-2006, 02:12 PM
``The lineups aren't very strong," he said. ``The strongest lineup in the National League probably isn't as strong, or as tough to pitch to, as Toronto or Baltimore. If everybody's healthy in St. Louis's lineup, that's probably the only one that can compare. The White Sox are tougher, Detroit this year is probably pretty tough, and then you have the Yankees, Toronto, and Baltimore in that division 19 times a year. I mean, it's hard to pitch over there.

This is something of an overstatement. Toronto's underrated (and fourth in MLB in runs), but Baltimore isn't that special. The Mets, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, and Brewers (and the Reds, of course) are all easily the Orioles' match offensively.

vaticanplum
06-23-2006, 03:27 PM
This is something of an overstatement. Toronto's underrated (and fourth in MLB in runs), but Baltimore isn't that special. The Mets, Dodgers, Diamondbacks, and Brewers (and the Reds, of course) are all easily the Orioles' match offensively.

The Orioles lineup was kinda scary there for the first half of the year. Palmeiro, Tejada, Brian Roberts, Mora had his moments, Sosa (ok Sosa was never scary, but I can see how it might have seemed to AL pitchers that he had the potential to be at first). Those are the memories probably fresh in Arroyo's brain.

KronoRed
06-23-2006, 03:31 PM
Im getting bored by all the "never wanted to leave" talk.

How about talk about the success your having in Cincy and not all the talk about all the success Boston is missing out on Arroyo?
Because he's planning to return there as soon as possible? ;)

KronoRed
06-23-2006, 03:31 PM
Isn't Casey on the radar as a FA next year?
I certainly hope not.

redsfan30
06-23-2006, 04:20 PM
The difference in the Casey/Arroyo situations is the few articles printed about Casey says he didn't want to go, but also goes on to say he's happy to be in Pittsburgh and he's not dwelling on being let go by his team.

I don't get that vibe from Arroyo.

smith288
06-23-2006, 04:29 PM
I certainly hope not.
I do...just for dirt cheap.

Matt700wlw
06-23-2006, 04:33 PM
The difference in the Casey/Arroyo situations is the few articles printed about Casey says he didn't want to go, but also goes on to say he's happy to be in Pittsburgh and he's not dwelling on being let go by his team.

I don't get that vibe from Arroyo.

As long as he keeps doing what he's doing, he can say whatever he wants.

Spitball
06-23-2006, 04:40 PM
The difference in the Casey/Arroyo situations is the few articles printed about Casey says he didn't want to go, but also goes on to say he's happy to be in Pittsburgh and he's not dwelling on being let go by his team.

I don't get that vibe from Arroyo.

I don't get the Arroyo/Casey comparison at all. Casey was traded to his hometown. He has been hurt much of the season and hasn't been mentioned for any awards or the all-star team. Arroyo was traded after signing a discount contract to stay in Boston. He is having a career year after being traded away by a team that mistakingly thought they didn't need him. Besides, the likeable Mayor Casey has always measured his words with the understanding that his persona is that of the nice guy. Arroyo is a free wheeling free spirit who is not afraid to speak his true feelings.

Like has been said, this is from a Boston paper. The hot issue of interest in the papers and on talk shows is whether their general manager, Theo Epstein, has done a good job. Arroyo's tie to Boston is a major issue of interest and not whether he likes Cincinnati.

KronoRed
06-23-2006, 05:23 PM
I do...just for dirt cheap.
No way, he'd be the starter and bat 3rd :explode:

Chip R
06-23-2006, 05:29 PM
Remember last year how most people thought it was a done deal that Adam Dunn was never going to sign a multi-year deal here and couldn't wait to go to HOU? Obviously HOU didn't have that much pull for him since he signed a 3 year deal here. Arroyo may not be here forever but he's ours for at least 2 more years if we want him. We shouldn't be so insecure about things like this.

OldXOhio
06-23-2006, 05:32 PM
Remember last year how most people thought it was a done deal that Adam Dunn was never going to sign a multi-year deal here and couldn't wait to go to HOU? Obviously HOU didn't have that much pull for him since he signed a 3 year deal here. Arroyo may not be here forever but he's ours for at least 2 more years if we want him. We shouldn't be so insecure about things like this.

For such a proud, tradition-rich, championship caliber organization, collectively we are a rather insecure bunch aren't we?

Heath
06-23-2006, 05:34 PM
For such a proud, tradition-rich, championship caliber organization, collectively we are a rather insecure bunch aren't we?

That's what 2 winning seasons in the last 10 years will do to that proud, tradition-rich organization.

dsmith421
06-23-2006, 05:37 PM
The difference in the Casey/Arroyo situations is

Arroyo is good, cheap, and worth keeping around and Casey is declining and expensive?

OldXOhio
06-23-2006, 05:41 PM
Casey is declining and expensive?

Speaking of Sean, I read a rumor earlier that said the Giants were one of a few teams looking to pick up Casey in the offseason via free agency.....

And Barry says he wants to return for another year....

The Mayor and Barry in the same clubhouse? Things that make you go hmmm.

traderumor
06-24-2006, 11:07 AM
Rather than blame Bronson for answering questions he's asked, perhaps the media could quit asking the assanine "so do you miss Boston?" questions when anyone that reads a sports page knows all about that story.

Heath
06-24-2006, 11:10 AM
Rather than blame Bronson for answering questions he's asked, perhaps the media could quit asking the assanine "so do you miss Boston?" questions when anyone that reads a sports page knows all about that story.


Boston, you know his story :D

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hof_weekend/2001/photos/images/grande_01.jpg

http://www.covers.com/images/2006/180x180/arroyo_bronson060522.jpg

Spitball
06-24-2006, 12:15 PM
He wins, and he has an ERA under 5. He doesn't beat up women, and he doesn't look like he uses growth hormones. I can accept Bronson being Bronson. I could care less what he says.

oneupper
06-24-2006, 12:19 PM
You folks have two years to turn Cincinnati into a Rock and Rolling PARTY town in which Bronson will beg to stay..

Start Drinking NOW!

Heath
06-24-2006, 12:24 PM
You folks have two years to turn Cincinnati into a Rock and Rolling PARTY town in which Bronson will beg to stay..

Start Drinking NOW!


Spoken like someone who lives near South Beach....... :D

Hey, being cool and conservative worked well for Deion Sanders, remember?

KronoRed
06-24-2006, 02:57 PM
You folks have two years to turn Cincinnati into a Rock and Rolling PARTY town in which Bronson will beg to stay..

Start Drinking NOW!
I don't think 2 decades would be enough time ;)

cincinnati chili
06-24-2006, 07:04 PM
I agree with 90% of what he said in that article. I don't think it was critical of Cincinnati at all. The biggest possible "insult" was saying that the Cards have the best NL offense when healthy. It may be true, but I'm not sure his guys want to hear it.

The one thing I disagree with (but am not surprised by) is his criticisms of the Boston front office for not bringing everyone back from the '04 team. Retooling made sense. They made the playoffs last year, and conceivably could have won the world series. This year, they're arguably the favorite to win the World Series. Boston hasn't done everything right, but they've been right most of the time.

harangatang
06-24-2006, 11:43 PM
Arroyo and his ways are starting to bring the spotlight on Cincinnati again. I love his no nonsense attitude he has and I think it meshes well with Jerry Narron. I'll be the first to say I don't always agree with everything Narron does as a manager but I love the way he runs his clubhouse. With the Olmedo story coming out I think it shows Narron's not there to be a politician, he's there to win ballgames. The results have shown as I read earlier in the week that the Reds were 83-79 in the first 162 games under Narron compared to something like .400 ball under Miley. I'm starting to actually like the Reds again in that I don't hear crybaby comments, only true things like Narron and Olmedo incident and Arroyo saying things like how they shouldn't lose to Pittsburgh.

Reds Nd2
06-24-2006, 11:56 PM
With the Olmedo story coming out I think it shows Narron's not there to be a politician, he's there to win ballgames.

...only true things like Narron and Olmedo incident...

What story?

harangatang
06-25-2006, 12:11 AM
What story?http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47326

Reds Nd2
06-25-2006, 01:30 AM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47326

Thanks for the link. I didn't see that thread before and to be honest, I didn't really go back more than five pages on Reds Live for any threads concerning new stories coming out about Olmedo. The real story is this. Olmedo, who was hitting .313/.389/.438 for the Reds this season, was sent back to Louisville to open a roster spot for Juan Castro, who had put up the non-silver bat winning numbers of .231/.258/.308 with the Twins this season. Castro hasn't improved his offensive numbers as a Red either.

I think you may be giving Narron a little more credit than he deserves though. Just as you can't put much credance in a pitchers W-L record, you can't use a managers W-L record as evidence of their effectiveness either, especially when you limit the winning percentage to their first 162 games. Your disregarding the fact that both managers had different GM's and, in the case of Narron this season, different owners.