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View Full Version : We're still 3rd best in the NL, despite 4-11 past 15



GOREDSGO32
06-25-2006, 01:10 AM
How is this possible? :eek: :eek: :eek:

harangatang
06-25-2006, 01:12 AM
How is this possible? :eek: :eek: :eek:The NL is weak, very very weak. If we could just get a bullpen. 88 wins will get this team into the playoffs.

GOREDSGO32
06-25-2006, 01:21 AM
Oh God .. imagine if we had a bullpen .. we would be up like 5 games on St Louis.

reds44
06-25-2006, 01:25 AM
The AL has just been killing the NL in interleague, that is how. We have a very favorible schedule going to the All-Star Game, and shortly after the ASG Krivsky will bring us some bullpen help.

I think we are going to stay in it.

harangatang
06-25-2006, 01:46 AM
We have a very favorible schedule going to the All-Star Game, and shortly after the ASG Krivsky will bring us some bullpen help.

I think we are going to stay in it.I agree, the baseball Gods appear to have turned their favor back to the Reds.

Deepred05
06-26-2006, 12:38 PM
What has happened to the national league? Aside from the fact that NY and Boston have the biggest payrolls, all the young talent seems to be in the american league.
St Louis was crushed by Chicago and Detroit. I am starting to believe we have a real shot at the division title.........

dabvu2498
06-26-2006, 12:42 PM
You guys keep jinxing us when you talk about the favorable schedule. The Cubs... The Cubs, I remind you!!!

Also, our home record says hello. :wave:

westofyou
06-26-2006, 12:46 PM
What has happened to the national league?Ebbs and Flows I guess, it would make an interesting study. The AL was the dominate league by the early part of the teens and didn't relinquish that until the National League moved west and signed more blacks than the AL did.

Why the change now? Could it be the NL falling into the HR chase trap? All the new stadiums homogonizing the style of play? Payroll differential by leagues? Teams located in declining markets heavily weighted to the NL?

There has to be a reason.

Doesn't there?

edabbs44
06-26-2006, 12:52 PM
Ebbs and Flows I guess, it would make an interesting study. The AL was the dominate league by the early part of the teens and didn't relinquish that until the National League moved west and signed more blacks than the AL did.

Why the change now? Could it be the NL falling into the HR chase trap? All the new stadiums homogonizing the style of play? Payroll differential by leagues? Teams located in declining markets heavily weighted to the NL?

There has to be a reason.

Doesn't there?
My personal opinion is the influx of NL stars into the AL. Unit, Schilling, Vlad, Beckett, Thome and Wily Mo :) all in recent memory have made the jump. Just to name a few.

redsmetz
06-26-2006, 12:55 PM
You guys keep jinxing us when you talk about the favorable schedule. The Cubs... The Cubs, I remind you!!!

Also, our home record says hello. :wave:

Exactly! Say after me, "I sure hope we can beat the Royals. I sure hope we don't get the daylights beat out of us!" Repeat three times.

Deepred05
06-26-2006, 01:34 PM
Ebbs and Flows I guess, it would make an interesting study. The AL was the dominate league by the early part of the teens and didn't relinquish that until the National League moved west and signed more blacks than the AL did.

Why the change now? Could it be the NL falling into the HR chase trap? All the new stadiums homogonizing the style of play? Payroll differential by leagues? Teams located in declining markets heavily weighted to the NL?

There has to be a reason.

Doesn't there?
Does anyone think the DH may play a factor here?

westofyou
06-26-2006, 01:35 PM
Does anyone think the DH may play a factor here?
The Indians announcers (radio) were touting that as part of the reason, they said no one cared about double switches... or the pitcher hitting. Then they went on to say Junior would be a great AL player, way better than a NL player.

Deepred05
06-26-2006, 01:40 PM
The Indians announcers (radio) were touting that as part of the reason, they said no one cared about double switches... or the pitcher hitting. Then they went on to say Junior would be a great AL player, way better than a NL player.
Call me crazy, but I like seeing the pitcher hit. When a pitcher hits a homerun, it is the equivalent of a 99 yard interception return,, or the full court shot that goes in.

dabvu2498
06-26-2006, 01:41 PM
Call me crazy, but I like seeing the pitcher hit. When a pitcher hits a homerun, it is the equivalent of a 99 yard interception return,, or the full court shot that goes in.
Crazy!

Enjoy watching Harang hit last year, did ya?

gonelong
06-26-2006, 01:52 PM
Payroll differential by leagues?



Thats been my thought of late ...



New York Yankees $198,662,180 New York Mets $100,901,085
Boston Red Sox $120,100,524 Los Angeles Dodgers $99,176,950
Los Angeles Angels $103,625,333 Chicago Cubs $94,841,167
Chicago White Sox $102,875,667 Houston Astros $92,551,503
Seattle Mariners $88,324,500 Atlanta Braves $92,461,852
Detroit Tigers $82,302,069 San Francisco Giants $90,862,063
Baltimore Orioles $72,585,713 St. Louis Cardinals $88,441,218
Toronto Blue Jays $71,915,000 Philadelphia Phillies $88,273,333
Texas Rangers $65,468,130 San Diego Padres $69,725,179
Minnesota Twins $63,810,048 Washington Nationals $63,267,500
Oakland Athletics $62,322,054 Cincinnati Reds $59,489,015
Cleveland Indians $56,795,867 Arizona Diamondbacks $59,221,226
Kansas City Royals $47,294,000 Milwaukee Brewers $56,790,000
Tampa Bay Devil Rays $35,417,967 Pittsburgh Pirates $46,867,750
AVG $83,678,503.71 Colorado Rockies $41,133,000
Florida Marlins $14,998,500
AVG $72,437,583.81


$11M per team difference ... that's one more big bopper or stud starter per team ... often lured from an NL team.

In reality, most of that is in NYY & BOS, not smattered throught the league.

GL

griffeyfreak4
06-26-2006, 01:57 PM
Call me crazy, but I like seeing the pitcher hit. When a pitcher hits a homerun, it is the equivalent of a 99 yard interception return,, or the full court shot that goes in.
I would disagree because IMO I would rather see guys like David Ortiz and Jim Thome just crush the ball rather than watch a guy like Harang try to swing the bat.

dabvu2498
06-26-2006, 01:58 PM
In reality, most of that is in NYY & BOS, not smattered throught the league.

#5-9 teams in the NL have higher payrolls than their AL counterparts.

Deepred05
06-26-2006, 02:01 PM
Crazy!

Enjoy watching Harang hit last year, did ya?
Cmon wasnt that single to drive in the only run in the St Louis game a thing of beauty?:)

dabvu2498
06-26-2006, 02:04 PM
Cmon wasnt that single to drive in the only run in the St Louis game a thing of beauty?:)
"Last year"... said I.

I'm glad he worked on not being such an embarassment at the plate.

Any Reds fan should want the DH as a means to hide Dunn and/or prolong Jr.'s career.

dfs
06-26-2006, 02:11 PM
Call me crazy, but I like seeing the pitcher hit. When a pitcher hits a homerun, it is the equivalent of a 99 yard interception return,, or the full court shot that goes in.

I'll join you over in the crazy side. Having the #9 hitter be almost an assured out provides a cadence and rythm to the game that I really miss when I watch an AL team.

Getting that extra out so the lineup shouldn't cycle over next inning becomes important. Make the other guy decide to pull the pitcher who is blanking you in order to get an incremental advantage this at bat. I miss all that in the DH league.

griffeyfreak4
06-26-2006, 02:13 PM
I'll join you over in the crazy side. Having the #9 hitter be almost an assured out provides a cadence and rythm to the game that I really miss when I watch an AL team.

Getting that extra out so the lineup shouldn't cycle over next inning becomes important. Make the other guy decide to pull the pitcher who is blanking you in order to get an incremental advantage this at bat. I miss all that in the DH league.
I disagree. Pitchers are meant to pitch, and shouldn't have to stop pitching just so their team should have a better chance at scoring. In the AL they don't have to stop pitching.

OldXOhio
06-26-2006, 02:26 PM
The Indians announcers (radio) were touting that as part of the reason, they said no one cared about double switches... or the pitcher hitting. Then they went on to say Junior would be a great AL player, way better than a NL player.

I particularly enjoyed some of their other little tidbits on the matter (paraphrased). Excuse us for playing the game the way it was designed:

"The NL is the only league in all of baseball that insists on that ridiculous rule."

"Allowing the NL to use a DH in interleague play is an unfair advantage to the NL. The NL should still have to make their pitcher hit when playing in the AL parks."

registerthis
06-26-2006, 03:51 PM
I disagree. Pitchers are meant to pitch, and shouldn't have to stop pitching just so their team should have a better chance at scoring. In the AL they don't have to stop pitching.

And, likewise, a shortstop's job is to field ground balls, throw runners out and turn double plays. Sometimes an excellent fielder has to stop fielding in order to be lifted for a better offensive talent. It's the way the game works.

westofyou
06-26-2006, 03:57 PM
I disagree. Pitchers are meant to pitch, and shouldn't have to stop pitching just so their team should have a better chance at scoring. In the AL they don't have to stop pitching.
Once the pitcher lets go of the ball the are part of the defense, so they do more then pitch

The origin of the game had the pitcher "serving" what the batter wanted up there and thus most pitchers could hit too, this changed over time for sure.

The World Cup didn't allow subs for years and you had to play with the same 11, HS and College allow unlimited substitutions. Which is right? Which is pure?

Personally I hate the DH and I remember when the AL didn't have it and I think the league was more interesting in the late innings then.

oregonred
06-26-2006, 04:38 PM
The Yankee factor in the AL probably changes the way all AL teams have to approach each one of their strategic approaches. No such dominant force exists to haunt the NL.

You can't outspend the 800 lb gorilla so you have to supplement with a reasonable aggressive spending level balancing younger talent and some strategic big name FA signings (Boston, LAA, Chicago, Toronto, Detroit). The AL Big 5-6 are certainly much better than the NL's best this season.

Another angle is that two of the AL's traditional big market step children have begun to assert some dominance in their local markets at the same time (Angels and White Sox). The Giants still dominate the A's in the Bay Area.

Can't be population growth. Can't find any faster growing major metro regions than the collection of Phoenix, San Diego, Miami, Atlanta, Houston and Denver. AL can counter a bit with Dallas, Tampa and Seattle. It's a wash on the common, growing markets (Bay Area, LA, DC)

It does seem most of the major impact FA acquisitions over the past 4-5 seasons have trending over to the AL.

Maybe another factor is better GM stability or just overall higher level of GM competence residing in the AL?

reds44
06-26-2006, 04:40 PM
If we can go 9-4 in our last 13 before the All-Star break (against all losing teams), we will have 50 wins at the all-star break.

It is very,very doable.

TeamBoone
06-26-2006, 07:30 PM
I agree, dfs. Having the pitcher bat changes the whole complexion of the game when it gets down to that 9th batter in later innings.

And I like it.

cincy09
06-26-2006, 07:32 PM
If we can go 9-4 in our last 13 before the All-Star break (against all losing teams), we will have 50 wins at the all-star break.

It is very,very doable.

50-39 sounds pretty good to me.

Raisor
06-26-2006, 08:32 PM
Now that Edgar Martinez is retired, I don't care that much either way about the DH.

I loved me some Edgar though.