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View Full Version : Is the playoffs enough??



joshnky
06-25-2006, 04:23 PM
After watching interleague play and the Reds favorable results against some of the top teams in the NL (Mets, Cards) I'm convinced that it won't take much (couple solid relievers) to make the playoffs in the current NL landscape. With the NL West teams beating up on each other it should make the wildcard within our reach if the Cards get hot. But, my question is, should we be happy with making the playoffs in a down year for the NL or should we aim higher? I'd love to have something to be excited about in October but we're a long way from being a World Series contender. In fact, it seems to be a reach to imagine any NL team beating the White Sox, Tigers, Red Sox, or Yankees, the AL certainly seems to be far superior. So, do we aim for the wild card or hope Krivsky makes some major trades (which would probably mean Homer) to put us in serious contention?

Jpup
06-25-2006, 04:25 PM
The goal should always be to win the World Series as soon as possible.

Falls City Beer
06-25-2006, 04:27 PM
The goal should always be to win the World Series as soon as possible.

The goal should be to improve the team consistently, year-round. Championships will take care of themselves.

reds44
06-25-2006, 04:29 PM
I'm not trading Homer unless I get a very good starter, or a shut down close. I would be more willing to talk about Dunn and Lopez.

savafan
06-25-2006, 04:41 PM
The goal should be to improve the team consistently, year-round. Championships will take care of themselves.

How often do they?

UC_Ken
06-25-2006, 04:42 PM
The goal should always be to win the World Series as soon as possible.
Absolutely. The playoffs is enought to feel like this was a good year but you don't trade away anything that can help you win a World Series as soon as possible. Of course having experience in a pennant race would be good experience for the young players on this team.

So I wouldn't trade Homer or Bruce but I'd trade middle tier prospects because it would be useful for our players to get experience in a pennant race. Only a few of our players have it.

Redhook
06-25-2006, 04:44 PM
At this point, I'd be thrilled if the Reds make the playoffs this year. I believe it's definitely possible. We might be able to win the first series, but anything beyond that is doubtful. I believe every year the goal should be to win the world series, but I also believe playoff experiece, good or bad, would help this team dramatically for the next few years. Getting that taste of playoff atmosphere might drive a few players, *cough, dunn, cough* ;) , to maybe work a littler harder in the offseason.

jimbo
06-25-2006, 04:45 PM
The goal should be to improve the team consistently, year-round. Championships will take care of themselves.

Took the words right out of my mouth.....well said.

Falls City Beer
06-25-2006, 05:14 PM
How often do they?

I'm not sure what this question means.

But championships do take care of themselves, if that's what you're asking about. Gearing up to "win a World Championship" in any particular year is kind of silly. Keep an eye on improvement and things fall in line; pushes for particular parts can be made at midseason if things are lacking.

But to the original question: playoffs should absolutely be enough if they make it there this season.

saboforthird
06-25-2006, 06:02 PM
I'm not sure what this question means.

But championships do take care of themselves, if that's what you're asking about. Gearing up to "win a World Championship" in any particular year is kind of silly. Keep an eye on improvement and things fall in line; pushes for particular parts can be made at midseason if things are lacking.

But to the original question: playoffs should absolutely be enough if they make it there this season.

I wasn't sure what your statement meant, either. Thanks for clarifying, though. :) Having said that, even if every organization in MLB was running all cylinders, making all the best trades (impossible), chances are still not real good that any of those organizations is going to win a world series, let alone make the playoffs. I *might* buy your statement if you said "good winning percentages will take care of themselves", but in the above-given scenario, that's not likely, either (if win percentages mean anything).

jnwohio
06-25-2006, 06:27 PM
If championships took care of themselves, the 1999 Reds team would have been somewhere besides in a 1 game playoff to be in the playoffs. They weren't because they couldn't make a timely big play, hit, or pitch in Houston or Milwaukee the last week of the season. So their 95 or 96 wins basically got them zilch.

Falls City Beer
06-25-2006, 06:51 PM
If championships took care of themselves, the 1999 Reds team would have been somewhere besides in a 1 game playoff to be in the playoffs. They weren't because they couldn't make a timely big play, hit, or pitch in Houston or Milwaukee the last week of the season. So their 95 or 96 wins basically got them zilch.

I think you're taking my point and making it say something it's not saying. Championships DO take care of themselves, but there is no "planning" to win a world championship. As long you continue to improve the product on the MLB field, championships will occur; when you become complacent or paralyzed, that's when they stop occurring.

Does a team always need a little luck to win a championship? Sure. And improving your team midseason helps a bunch in most championship runs, but building a championship team is a process, not a product. You don't just load up for bear in the offseason and call it quits, saying you've a championship team, you improve the team in big and little ways at all times.

vaticanplum
06-25-2006, 07:03 PM
The goal should always be to win the World Series as soon as possible.

I don't agree with this. I think it should always be the PLAYERS' goal to win a World Series as soon as possible; that they should play every game with the greatest prize in mind. The front office has different things to consider. There are ramifications financially and in terms of team morale and makeup that they need to consider in building a team. They need to do this with a championship in mind, always, but every single decision can't be made for only that reason. Then you end up with the Yankees' current team, which should be evidence enough that that kind of mentality won't necessarily get you a championship anyway. There are big black holes on the Reds' roster right now, and to fix them at this very moment would probably require us to give up things I'm not willing to do, for a return that would be strictly temporary and put us in the same -- or even lesser -- boat not too far down the line.

Put it this way: Roger Clemens or Randy Johnson stand a much better chance at winning a World Series game this year than Homer Bailey. But who do I want on my team? To bring in a hired gun to win a championship wouldn't even feel like it was the Reds winning anyway. And I wouldn't throw Bailey on a WS stage right now even if he were physically ready, I don't think. That could ruin forever our greatest chance to have an excellent, cheap pitcher long-term.

Reds Nd2
06-25-2006, 07:20 PM
Does a team always need a little luck to win a championship? Sure. And improving your team midseason helps a bunch in most championship runs, but building a championship team is a process, not a product.

"Luck is the residue of design." ~ Branch Rickey

RFS62
06-25-2006, 07:24 PM
You don't chose the year. The year choses you.

We have to be realistic. Steady movement towards being in contention, with the willingness to make a deal to put us in the playoffs if the stars appear to have aligned.

Carin4Narron
06-25-2006, 10:38 PM
2nd place, wildcard or not, would make me very happy. Anything else would be gravy.

edabbs44
06-25-2006, 10:51 PM
I'm not trading Homer unless I get a very good starter, or a shut down close. I would be more willing to talk about Dunn and Lopez.
I would only trade Homer for a legit starter with upside/youth. If you look at a lot of the better closers/relievers in recent memory, they have been failed starters. Gagne, Mariano, Gordon, Lidge and Nathan are some who come to mind. That's why Wayne should be looking for some mid 20s guys with live arms who might not be panning out in their current role. These guys wouldn't cost an arm and a leg to get.

How about Scott Baker? How much do the Twins value him after he didn't pitch that well up in the big leagues this year? He might be a huge value as a reliever this year with an eye to the rotation next year.

No idea of who else, but that's why Wayne's in the FO and I'm stuck out here in NJ. But Coffey is just fine in the closer role right now. We just need some arms to get to him with a lead.

flyer85
06-25-2006, 10:54 PM
after you make the playoffs anything can happen, especially because the rotation and bullpen can both be shortened making a lack of pitching depth less likely to be exposed.

Tommyjohn25
06-25-2006, 10:57 PM
Me personally? If the Reds made the playoffs this year it would be absolutely huge. That in itself would create a buzz for Reds fans that laid dormant for a long time, peaked interest means more fans, more fans mean more revenue, and more revenue means higher payroll, which with Krivsky pulling the triggers IMO is a very very good thing. A playoff appearance this year would begin a domino effect that would pay off in spades for a long time coming.

GridironGrace
06-25-2006, 10:59 PM
Yes playoffs are ENOUGH..

My goal has never been playoffs this season. I just wanna see us avg 15 wins a month, which very well could put us in the playoffs with 90 wins.....however i set 15 wins a month as a goal so that we are sure to be on pace to finish ABOVE .500 which is my primary goal for the season.

edabbs44
06-25-2006, 11:00 PM
after you make the playoffs anything can happen, especially because the rotation and bullpen can both be shortened making a lack of pitching depth less likely to be exposed.
Rotation yes, BP not a guarantee. You would have to assume that Arroyo, Harang, and Milton/Ramirez get into the 8th every night.

flyer85
06-25-2006, 11:14 PM
Rotation yes, BP not a guarantee. You would have to assume that Arroyo, Harang, and Milton/Ramirez get into the 8th every night.not saying the current BP is adequate just that the pitchers that pitch are more likely to go deep into the game than the 5th starter who will not pitch.

Getting back Belisle(and using him in a differnet role), bringing up Shack and trading for a BP pitcher would bolster the current pen

oregonred
06-26-2006, 12:24 AM
This year with no expectations and no playoff appearance since 1995 -- heck yes.

If its good enough for the one and only FCB it's certainly good enough for me ;)